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主席長 我想首先我要強調在野黨沒有不審總預算最近包含賴總統 行政院 卓院長還有執政黨一直對外放話說總預算卡關是因為在野黨的杯葛封殺"},{"start":31.333,"end":53.623,"text":"賴清德總統更是超越憲法表示總預算要在12月31號前審查完卷所以主席長請問你過去十餘年來從102年到去年立法院審查總預算我想包含我們民進黨完全執政的時期每一年的總預算都是在12月31號前審查完卷嗎不一定"},{"start":57.509,"end":62.67,"text":"不是不一定我已經把這個表格做給你看都沒有過去10年102、103、104除了105年以外103年度就是12月19通過公告是在1月14號但是它通過的時候就是12月19我想時間的關係我想我表格做很清楚給你看了"},{"start":86.348,"end":103.404,"text":"就是幾乎是都很少是在這個過去十年幾個年度都很少在12月31前審查完畢所以我要在這邊強調我要再次的強調在野黨從來沒有不說不審總預算"},{"start":105.544,"end":132.378,"text":"我們也懇請委員把這個總預算盡快來審查我想這個癥結點剛才好幾位委員也講過了其實包含國民黨團也再次多次的公開表態只要行政院依立法院三讀通過的法律來編列總預算包含軍人加薪 錦銷退休的保障以及執行停侃年金立法院就會去審查預算"},{"start":133.854,"end":148.287,"text":"所以主席長我想請問你行政院這樣選擇性的不附屬不執行法律是不是因為三讀通過的法律都是在野黨的版本基於政治立場的不同行政院就不附屬不想編"},{"start":149.468,"end":175.543,"text":"不是我要跟委員報告這三個法案它整個的影響非常的重大包括你停卡年金那將來要負擔的部分非常的多然後第二個就是說居能加薪的部分還有包括公教人員那停卡年金這個部分它涉及到年改往回投入去走那這個整個制度的一個改變影響非常的重大也非常巨大包括我們的財政的任性都沒辦法"},{"start":175.823,"end":202.422,"text":"你現在講的當然講的原因剛才回答委員說這些都很複雜你也這樣講但是我們講就是一個很簡單的道理立法院三讀通過的法律行政院可以凌駕於立法院之上對立法院三讀通過的法律去不執行嗎站在你是一個主機長的立場你從法律的角度去解讀因為我是一個法律人我非常尊重制度"},{"start":203.704,"end":217.698,"text":"行政院可以这样去凌驾立法院吗这是我们所不愿意的但是因为我们也不得不说要先请要来申请释宪释宪后再来决定执行"},{"start":220.2,"end":234.213,"text":"所以我想我還是要呼籲主席總書依法行政才是王道好 那罪長你請回現在請我們海委會副主委張副主委"},{"start":235.775,"end":263.613,"text":"委員好副主委 是我想上週中國的環台軍演海巡署是否也有派出海巡部隊與船隻參與協防有 我們總共派了14艘的艦船艇還有94艘的預備艇這都有嗎海巡署也是有參與整個協防但是我們跟國防部有分工就是國防部隊軍艦 我們隊海警船好 是所以"},{"start":265.037,"end":275.886,"text":"在12月31號我想你本人或者主委還有幾位副署長都有出席高雄的參會參加這個參會外界我想大家多所批評"},{"start":277.423,"end":298.354,"text":"大家對於這場參會都很嘩然、非常的訝異,怎麼海巡署在對岸軍演的時期竟然會這樣沒有去緊盯整個軍演的一個過程,掌握實際的狀況,竟然跑去吃飯。"},{"start":300.035,"end":316.988,"text":"這件事我想很多人都有所質疑啦所以這個我想直接請問你們的判斷是什麼為什麼你們不去緊盯整個軍演的狀況而跑去吃飯這邊特別跟委員說明那中共是在29號的7點發布"},{"start":319.27,"end":337.247,"text":"我們在當下就成立應變中心來做應變然後30號開始他們就所謂的他們要做實彈射擊他們兩波次的9點跟下午的1點然後結束以後他們在6點鐘30到6點鐘他們就宣布整個任務達成"},{"start":340.47,"end":358.245,"text":"我們當下在六點三十分的時候當天的三十分所有的軍艦包括海警船都已經離開我們的限制水域在晚上的九點半我們做整體評估是由個人直接跟主委建議說會議是可以照常舉行的"},{"start":359.366,"end":376.355,"text":"那接下來隔天的早上五點半我們再做整體的評估那所有的艦船艇都已經離開我們軍艦的那個巡防艦的雷達的監控範圍所以是可以舉行是沒有問題的另外部分跟委員包括海巡組從111年到"},{"start":378.616,"end":398.939,"text":"上一次我們已經整整的應對了7次的中共軍演那我們很清楚是一個訓練有素的一個整個在指揮體系跟這個整個情務不中斷的情況下他是整個一個團隊的合作部分不是告個人所以整個可以去吃飯是由"},{"start":400.62,"end":424.193,"text":"誰來決定是主委決定還是說是你剛才提到了是你本人評估你評估之後告訴主委特別跟委員報告是由我們很清楚是由我本人來做整個評估然後是可以決定但是我想媒體上有很多的誤解就是當天的參會當天參會是整個會議過程的公務行程之一沒有飲酒也沒有唱歌也沒有什麼都沒有"},{"start":424.733,"end":452.01,"text":"回來以後我們所有的主管都還是回到這個有沒有唱歌有沒有飲酒這個不是重點啦重點是說對岸在軍演還沒有結束啊那你就認為說不會有突發狀況發生幸好是沒有啦假設有的話我想你們真的全部要辭職下台啦所以我是認為說我想外界這麼多批評啊我是不曉得你有沒有去虛心的檢討"},{"start":453.742,"end":482.968,"text":"對於外界的批評我們會整個做細心檢討也會做持續不斷的精進會檢討嘛但是這邊要特別跟委員報告還有跟國人報告這個整個狀況都在海巡署跟國軍的掌控之下我們是有能力掌握所有周邊海域的狀況我們也有能力去處理應對中國大陸的灰帶洗澡那我這邊要特別跟委員說明全世界的COSCO大概只有台灣的海巡署是面對中國海警灰色"},{"start":483.688,"end":511.688,"text":"最有經驗的到目前現在在金門還是一樣最後請教你不要再講了那12月31號是不是還是上班日你們有放假嗎它是整個會議是一個公務行程的延續去吃飯是公務行程喔你認為這是公務行程喔所以你這根本就太鬆散了啦對岸軍演欸你跟我講說公務行程包含吃飯去聚餐"},{"start":513.622,"end":528.728,"text":"我想這個講來講去你們還是沒有虛心檢討了公委報告我們以後會持續檢討精進你如果要持續檢討精進你是不是可以提出一個書面報告給我們因為時間的關係我希望你們真的要提出一個很虛心檢討的一個報告針對外界對你們的批評"},{"start":534.342,"end":546.029,"text":"對於一個外界的批評我們都會虛心的檢討跟接受另外一部分就是我們還是要特別跟國人報告海巡署是一個訓練有助專業的部隊署長您請回我請光部徐副部長"},{"start":554.046,"end":560.75,"text":"國軍志願役的人力流是非常嚴重 依照媒體的報導115年國軍志願役的人員的預算額僅剩153,965人役 114年的16749人相較 拒減了6784人"},{"start":571.818,"end":592.046,"text":"行同一年列又蒸發了兩個聯兵旅若與一百一十三年的十六萬六千兩百三十五人相較更大減了一萬兩千七百七十人所以副部長剛才你回答羅賓財務委員表示說自願意的預算源是機密不能回答委員但媒體都已經有所報導了"},{"start":593.757,"end":619.532,"text":"這是怎麼一回事啊 不能跟委員說 卻可以讓媒體來披露這是機密嗎預算原額和編制限原是不一樣的概念編制原額 限原原額是機密預算原額不是機密預算原額不是機密所以你剛才 羅民財委你好像沒有跟他講很清楚他就問你說現在目前我們的預算原額是多少啊"},{"start":621.941,"end":650.299,"text":"你說這是機密 你就不回答他我沒有說預算原額是機密我說編制跟現原是機密編制的是機密 預算原額是可以講的好 那我就問你為什麼我們現在預算原額的流失那麼嚴重志願役的人才流失那麼嚴重國防部有調查主要的原因是什麼這一段像委員報告由於近年少子化以及社會增財的結果"},{"start":651.52,"end":679.615,"text":"所以近三年來都是持續好 那國軍的待遇這個普遍大家認為低薪嘛是不是一個重要的原因優因不足啊這是不是一個重要的原因我想這跟整體社會的增才以及少子化有絕大的因素因為根據我們的推估近三年來人力就持續下降所以在國軍所以你認為跟待遇沒有關係並不是沒有關係可是並不是絕對的影響"},{"start":680.932,"end":687.137,"text":"你贊不贊成我們立法院三讀通過的軍人待遇條例中修法把軍人加薪"},{"start":688.555,"end":710.888,"text":"這個當然謝謝大院對於國軍薪資待遇的關心你把態度做出來 你們贊不贊成 你告訴我不要再講其他的 你回答我贊不贊成我身為職業諮詢人本身 我當然是是贊成嘛我當然是願意 但是我還是要考慮到國家整體財政的平行其實包含執政黨的立委也對軍人加薪 沒有反對啊"},{"start":711.488,"end":733.228,"text":"我覺得國防部要把態度做出來你要支持軍人加薪嘛才會吸引更多的人才來加入國軍嘛好不好是的請你們把態度做出來啦好 以上好 謝謝謝謝林思銘召委接下來我們請侯孟楷委員侯孟楷委員侯孟楷委員不在場下一位林倩琦委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:01:27+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:01:28+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:01:27.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:01:35.843000+08:00","text":"我先請主計長，請海委會張副主委以及國防部徐副部長待會再上臺。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-05T12:01:37.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:01:37.625000+08:00","text":"先請陳主計長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:01:39.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:01:39.213000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:01:39.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:04.636000+08:00","text":"主計長，首先我要強調，在野黨沒有不審總預算，最近包含賴總統、行政院卓院長及執政黨一直對外放話，說總預算卡關是因為在野黨的杯葛、封殺，賴清德總統更是超越憲法，表示總預算要在12月31號前審查完竣。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:07.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:20.563000+08:00","text":"請問主計長，過去十餘年來，從102年到去年，立法院審查總預算，包含民進黨完全執政時期，每一年的總預算都是在12月31號前審查完竣嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:20.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:20.603000+08:00","text":"不一定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:24.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.089000+08:00","text":"不是不一定，根本就……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:26.089000+08:00","text":"法條是這樣規定的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.649000+08:00","text":"我已經把表格做給你看，都沒有啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.789000+08:00","text":"過去十年，102、103、104年，除了105年以外……有啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.949000+08:00","text":"113年度就是12月19日通過嘛！那個……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:25.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:26.169000+08:00","text":"公告是在1月14號。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:26.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:02:26.809000+08:00","text":"但是它通過的時候，就是12月19日；105年也是12月18日；101年也是12月13日。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:02:26.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:03:10.384000+08:00","text":"主計長，因為時間的關係，我的表格已經很清楚給你看了，過去十年，很少年度是在12月31日前審查完竣，所以我要在這邊再次強調，在野黨從來沒有說不審總預算。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:03:12.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:03:15.786000+08:00","text":"我們也懇請委員儘快審查總預算。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:03:16.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:03:39.358000+08:00","text":"我想這個癥結點，剛才好幾位委員也講過了，包含國民黨黨團也多次的公開表態，只要行政院依立法院三讀通過的法律編列總預算，包含軍人加薪、警消退休的保障以及執行停砍年金，立法院就會去審查預算。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:03:41.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:03:55.287000+08:00","text":"主計長，我想請問你，行政院這樣選擇性的不副署、不執行法律，是不是因為三讀通過的法律都是在野黨版本，基於政治立場的不同，行政院就不副署、不想編？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:03:56.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:03:57.709000+08:00","text":"不是，我要跟委員報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:03:58.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:05.333000+08:00","text":"這三個法案整個的影響非常重大，包括停砍年金，將來要負擔的部分非常多。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:06.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:22.523000+08:00","text":"第二個，軍人加薪的部分，還有包括公教人員停砍年金這部分，涉及到年改往回頭路去走，整個制度的改變影響非常重大，也非常巨大，包括我們財政的整個韌性都沒辦法忍受。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:22.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:42.057000+08:00","text":"主計長，你現在講的原因跟剛才回答委員的說法是，這些都很複雜，你也有這樣講，但是我們講一個很簡單的道理，立法院三讀通過的法律，行政院可以凌駕於立法院之上，對於立法院三讀通過的法律不執行嗎？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:42.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:53.346000+08:00","text":"站在主計長的立場，你從法律的角度去解讀……因為我是一個法律人，我非常尊重制度，行政院可以這樣去凌駕立法院嗎？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:54.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:57.150000+08:00","text":"這是我們不願意的……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:57.150000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:58.150000+08:00","text":"自己說了算、自己說了算？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:58.150000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:04:59.150000+08:00","text":"難怪媒體會說這是一個耍賴的行為……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-01-05T12:04:57.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:04.678000+08:00","text":"但是我們也不得不聲請釋憲，等釋憲後再來決定怎麼執行。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:08.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:14.326000+08:00","text":"我還是要呼籲主計總處，依法行政才是王道。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:17.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:17.489000+08:00","text":"主計長請回。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:18.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:21.193000+08:00","text":"現在請海委會張副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:22.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:22.975000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:23.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:32.622000+08:00","text":"副主委，上週中國的環臺軍演，海巡署是否也有派出海巡部隊與船隻參與協防？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:33.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:41.107000+08:00","text":"有，我們總共派了14艘的艦船艇，還有94艘的預備艇。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:41.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:41.287000+08:00","text":"所以都有嘛！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:41.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:44.670000+08:00","text":"海巡署也是有參與整個協防嘛？有！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:44.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:46.911000+08:00","text":"但是我們跟國防部有分工。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:46.911000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:47.911000+08:00","text":"有分工，OK。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:47.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:05:49.072000+08:00","text":"國防部對軍艦，我們對海警船。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:05:49.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:06:25.354000+08:00","text":"好，在12月31號，我想你本人或者主委，還有幾位副署長都有出席高雄餐會，參加這個餐會，外界都有所批評，大家對於這場餐會都很譁然、非常地訝異，怎麼海巡署在對岸軍演時期，竟然會沒有去緊盯整個軍演的過程、掌握實際狀況，竟然跑去吃飯？","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:06:27.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:06:36.563000+08:00","text":"這件事很多人都有所質疑，我想直接請問副主委，你們的判斷是什麼？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:06:36.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:06:40.906000+08:00","text":"為什麼你們不去緊盯整個軍演的狀況而跑去吃飯，你們的判斷是什麼？","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:06:40.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:06:49.633000+08:00","text":"這邊特別跟委員說明，中共是在29號的7點發布，我們在當下就成立應變中心來應變。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:06:51.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:07:04.227000+08:00","text":"從30號開始，他們要做實彈射擊，有9點跟下午1點兩波次，結束以後，他們在30號的6點鐘就宣布整個任務達成。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:07:07.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:07:25.185000+08:00","text":"當天我們在6點30分，所有的軍艦，包括海警船都已經離開我們的限制水域；在晚上9點半，我們整體評估後，由個人直接跟主委建議，會議可以照常舉行。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:07:26.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:07:40.393000+08:00","text":"接下來隔天的早上5點半，我們再整體評估，所有的艦船艇都已經離開我們巡防艦雷達的監控範圍，所以可以舉行、是沒有問題的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:07:40.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:08:02.455000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分，跟委員報告，海巡署從111年到上一次，我們已經整整應對了7次的中共軍演，海巡署是一個訓練有素的指揮體系，整個勤務不中斷的情況下，它是靠整個團隊的合作，不是靠個人，特別跟委員說明。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:08:04.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:08:07.620000+08:00","text":"可以去吃飯是由誰來決定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:08:07.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:08:15.204000+08:00","text":"是主委決定，還是你剛剛提到的，是經你本人評估，在你評估之後才告訴主委的？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:08:15.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:08:34.175000+08:00","text":"特別跟委員報告，海巡署是由本人做整個評估，然後是可以……但是我想媒體上對當天的餐會有很多的誤解，當天餐會是整個會議過程的公務行程之一，沒有飲酒也沒有唱歌，什麼都沒有，回來以後，我們所有的主管都還是回到崗位。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:08:34.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:08:51.746000+08:00","text":"副主委，有沒有唱歌、有沒有飲酒，這個不是重點，重點是對岸軍演還沒有結束，你就認為不會有突發狀況發生，幸好是沒有，假設有的話，我想你們真的全部要辭職下臺。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:08:53.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:08:59.010000+08:00","text":"我是認為外界這麼多批評，我是不曉得你有沒有去虛心檢討？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:00.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:06.303000+08:00","text":"對於外界的批評，我們會整個虛心檢討，也會持續不斷地精進……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:06.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:06.303000+08:00","text":"會檢討嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:06.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:21.986000+08:00","text":"但是這邊要特別跟委員及國人報告，整個狀況都在海巡署跟國軍的掌控之下，我們有能力掌握所有周邊海域的狀況，也有能力處理、應對中國大陸的灰帶襲擾。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:23.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:34.191000+08:00","text":"這邊特別跟委員說明，全世界的coast guard，大概只有臺灣的海巡署是面對中國海警灰色襲擾最有經驗的，到現在在金門還是一樣……","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:34.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:35.472000+08:00","text":"最後請教你，你不要再講了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:36.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:39.735000+08:00","text":"12月31號是不是還是上班日？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:40.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:42.256000+08:00","text":"你們有放假嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:42.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:45.859000+08:00","text":"整個會議是一個公務行程的延續。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:45.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:47.260000+08:00","text":"去吃飯是公務行程喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:48.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:49.862000+08:00","text":"你認為這是公務行程喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:49.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:50.942000+08:00","text":"這整個會議是公務行程的延續。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:50.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:09:53.684000+08:00","text":"這根本就太鬆散了，對岸軍演耶！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:09:54.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:03.643000+08:00","text":"你跟我說公務行程包含吃飯、聚餐，講來講去，你們還是沒有虛心檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:04.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:06.685000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們以後會持續檢討精進。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:06.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:15.728000+08:00","text":"你如果要持續檢討精進，因為時間的關係，你們是不是可以提出一個書面報告給我們，我希望你們真的要提出一個虛心檢討的報告，就是針對外界對你們的批評，好不好？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:21.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:31.768000+08:00","text":"對於外界的批評，我們都會虛心的檢討跟接受；另外一部分，我們還是要特別跟國人報告，海巡署是一個訓練有素、專業的部隊……","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:31.768000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:32.768000+08:00","text":"好了，可以了，副主委，你請回。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:32.768000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:33.768000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:32.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:32.229000+08:00","text":"我請國防部徐副部長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:32.229000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:10:33.229000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:10:32.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:09.042000+08:00","text":"徐副部長，國軍志願役的人力流失非常嚴重，依照媒體的報導，115年國軍志願役人員的預算員額僅剩15萬3,965人，與114年的16萬794人相較，遽減了6,784人，形同一年內又蒸發了兩個聯兵旅，若與113年的16萬6,235人相較，更大減了1萬2,770人。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:10.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:21.497000+08:00","text":"副部長，剛才你回答羅明才委員表示志願役的預算員額是機密，不能回答委員，但媒體都已經有所報導了，這是怎麼一回事？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:22.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:27.721000+08:00","text":"不能跟委員說，卻可以讓媒體披露，這是機密嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:27.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:38.907000+08:00","text":"預算員額和現員編制是不一樣的概念，編制員額、現員員額是機密，預算員額不是機密。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:39.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:39.908000+08:00","text":"預算員額不是機密？對。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:39.908000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:40.908000+08:00","text":"但預算員額跟現……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:40.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:46.292000+08:00","text":"所以剛才你好像沒有跟羅明才委員講得很清楚，他就是問你現在我們的預算員額是多少？","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:48.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:51.083000+08:00","text":"你說這是機密，你就不回答他。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:51.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:55.225000+08:00","text":"我沒有說預算員額是機密，我說編制跟現員是機密。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:55.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:11:58.307000+08:00","text":"編制的是機密，預算員額是可以講的嘛！是。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:11:59.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:07.073000+08:00","text":"好，那我就問你，為什麼我們現在預算員額流失那麼嚴重？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:07.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:12.396000+08:00","text":"志願役人力流失那麼嚴重，國防部有調查主要的原因是什麼嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:12.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:20.641000+08:00","text":"這一段向委員報告，由於近年來少子化，以及社會徵才的結果，近三年來都是持續……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:20.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:27.725000+08:00","text":"好，國軍的待遇大家普遍認為低薪是不是一個重要的原因？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:28.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:30.566000+08:00","text":"誘因不足，這是不是一個重要的原因？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:31.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:41.172000+08:00","text":"我想這跟整體社會徵才及少子化有絕大的因素，因為根據我們的推估，近三年來人力都持續下降，所以在國軍……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:41.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:44.153000+08:00","text":"所以你認為跟待遇沒有關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:44.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:46.615000+08:00","text":"並不是沒有關係，可是並不是絕對的影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:47.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:54.117000+08:00","text":"你贊不贊成立法院三讀通過的軍人待遇條例修法，讓軍人加薪？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:55.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:56.716000+08:00","text":"當然謝謝大院……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:56.716000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:57.716000+08:00","text":"你們贊不贊成？","quality":0},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:12:57.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:12:59.057000+08:00","text":"對於國軍薪資待遇的關心，我想……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:00.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:05.321000+08:00","text":"你把態度做出來，你告訴我你們贊不贊成，不要再講其他的，你回答我贊不贊成。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:05.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:07.922000+08:00","text":"我身為職業軍人本身，我當然是願意……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:08.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:08.963000+08:00","text":"是贊成嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高處長志雄","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:09.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:12.405000+08:00","text":"我當然是願意，可是我們還是要考慮到國家整體財政的衡平性。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:12.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:27.717000+08:00","text":"其實我要告訴國防部，包含執政黨的立委也沒有反對軍人加薪，我覺得國防部要把態度做出來，你要支持軍人加薪才會吸引更多的人才加入國軍，好不好？是的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:28.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:32.040000+08:00","text":"請你們把態度做出來，以上，謝謝。是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:32.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:32.621000+08:00","text":"謝謝林思銘召委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:33.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:39.127000+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在場。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:39.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:40.228000+08:00","text":"下一位林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員不在場。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-05T12:13:40.728000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-05T12:13:43.299429+08:00","text":"接下來請葉元之委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}