{"error":false,"id":["166991"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166991,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166991","日期":"2026-01-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-08T11:05:45+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-08T11:15:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:10","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/125fd21c0e10f543c84d82d89f342b78324c55f2e48b25a91d89202e029a9f20e2ce94d99c1cf0755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:05:45 - 11:15:55","會議時間":"2026-01-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「大學法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員范雲等16人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員陳秀寳等22人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「大學法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員柯志恩等21人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n八、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員翁曉玲等 16 人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「大學法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員范雲等16人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員林月琴等17人擬具「大學法第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林宜瑾等21人擬具「大學法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":0.03096875,"end":2.0222187500000004,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":6.629093750000001,"end":7.709093750000001,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":8.181593750000001,"end":9.177218750000002,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":13.31159375,"end":46.268468750000004,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":22.94721875,"end":23.554718750000003,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":46.774718750000005,"end":53.085968750000006,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":52.76534375,"end":53.220968750000004,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":53.220968750000004,"end":65.82659375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":65.52284375,"end":68.32409375,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":66.97409375000001,"end":70.72034375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":69.89346875000001,"end":70.77096875000001,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":70.73721875000001,"end":70.88909375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":71.29409375,"end":75.81659375000001,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":72.61034375,"end":73.38659375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":76.66034375000001,"end":90.34596875000001,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":85.04721875,"end":85.30034375000001,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":90.76784375000001,"end":114.86534375000001,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":115.70909375000001,"end":118.61159375000001,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":117.95346875000001,"end":148.39596875,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":148.53096875,"end":160.76534375,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":148.83471875,"end":148.95284375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":161.52471875,"end":187.86659375000002,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":170.50221875,"end":170.85659375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":188.30534375000002,"end":190.53284375,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":190.56659375,"end":214.17471875,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":214.14096875,"end":214.66409375,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":214.66409375,"end":215.82846875,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":215.60909375,"end":229.21034375000002,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":228.72096875000003,"end":230.30721875,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":230.10471875000002,"end":242.82846875,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":230.76284375,"end":231.92721875,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":236.78721875000002,"end":237.34409375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":242.86221875,"end":248.68409375000002,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":248.98784375000002,"end":274.26659375,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":258.60659375,"end":259.29846875000004,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":261.69471875,"end":262.03221875,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":262.47096875,"end":262.82534375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":274.28346875,"end":274.70534375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張委員雅琳","start":275.00909375000003,"end":296.05221875,"speaker_score":0.884},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":296.13659375000003,"end":311.03721875,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":311.23971875,"end":315.81284375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":316.09971875,"end":331.84409375,"speaker_score":0.889},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","spea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要請次長好 有請次長"},{"start":13.322,"end":37.853,"text":"好謝謝主席謝謝次長就是說我想今天我就來跟次長好好來討論這個學生團體因為我們這一年來去年開始有陸陸續續跟了很多的學生團體討論大家關注的幾個重點就是說在校長遴選的部分還有就是校務會議學生能夠參與的比例以及最後一個他們學生自治空間那我想我們先從校務會議因為這個以前就已經有討論過"},{"start":38.993,"end":45.99,"text":"所以我想要请次长先回想一下这个十分之一当时到底是怎么定出来的"},{"start":46.82,"end":74.97,"text":"好 我跟委員說明在94年修大學法的時候剛好那個時候我是科長沒錯那時候在處理的時候我們有開一個全國的學生的一個自治會議先分區 然後在台大開一個大會那十分之一是在那時候提出來的一個共識所以是當時學生團體的共識是嗎對 最早的時候根本沒有這個規定我知道 就在94年之前是沒有但是在第十屆第五期的這個"},{"start":76.924,"end":93.618,"text":"教文委員會的第十次會議也就是111年的5月19號當時您也提出到說當時您是司長您是說可以改成八分之一那這個八分之一的依據又是什麼呢八分之一是當時在11年討論的時候因為委員"},{"start":97.381,"end":113.783,"text":"立法院有討論那時候也是沒有院版所以那時候我們有跟大學有做了一些溝通那大學下長的希望是說確實十分之一已經做了將近15年了那如果有機會用漸進的方式先提到八分之一來做討論"},{"start":115.765,"end":139.96,"text":"大学的期待是这样子好 我了解那我想再请教一下就是说其实我在教育部的人权教育资源网看到有一篇讨论校务会议学生代表比例的文章它里面就有讲到十分之一是否是一个适当的比例它认为关键不在此而是在于各校关于校务会议提出临时动议的比例是否高过此一比例"},{"start":140.62,"end":160.478,"text":"因為既然學生代表參與了會議可是不應該只能出席卻毫無作為否則只能出席對所有提案都只能乾瞪眼的話那根本就沒有參與的意義所以我找了一下每個學校的一個版本那你也可以看到就是說大家的規範跟差異都相當的大那我想當初"},{"start":162.859,"end":190.189,"text":"這個大學法給予的十分之一那又設了這些限制之後就很然讓學生覺得說你根本其實沒有要給我實質的討論的權利所以現在學生就會希望說我們是不是可以把這樣子的比例提到五分之一那他們這樣一旦擁有了20%的席次的話他們就比較容易擁有臨時動議的提案權來阻止一些不合理的規則那我不曉得說現在次長你們的想法是什麼是"},{"start":191.289,"end":210.516,"text":"这点我在跟同学们座谈的时候同学也提到其实比较是一个独立的提案权就是可以由学生来独立提案那这一块以部里面的评估应该是我们可以来协助学生积极跟大学来沟通所以我现在是以这个方向在跟大学沟通说让同学是不是有独立的提案权"},{"start":211.016,"end":228.48,"text":"确实不然现在从三人五人八人到十分之一都有没错对好所以我想要这里面就有两个问题就是说学生的席次跟他们能不能够进入实质讨论的部分那刚刚听起来都有已经在讨论那我也有听到前面也有说到好像一月底的时候吧"},{"start":231.021,"end":248.385,"text":"22232223两天都有全国校长的会议好那我希望这个部分也要带回去跟校长们讨论因为我们之前自己也有询问一些校长他们也有提到一个重点就是说他们为什么觉得这个学生的想法有点至爱难行因为实务上很难找到这么多的学生"},{"start":249.085,"end":274.403,"text":"这是他们的一个想法但我想这个部分还要涉及到学生有提到就是他们开会总是在那种什么期中考期末考其实就实质上增加了他们参与的障碍所以我想这些问题也希望都要在这个会议上面一并的来讨论因为我想校园自治还有这个让学生有更多的公共参与的练习都是非常重要的是"},{"start":275.063,"end":299.791,"text":"好那再來第二個問題就是有關於校長遴選的部分因為現在有特別學生擔心的就合併的時候他們根本沒有意見機會校長的部分他們基本上很難去表達他們的意見因為校長又關係到了整個學校治理的一個方向那不曉得說是不是可以加入我們的學生跟教師的代表不曉得教育部的想法是什麼是謝謝委員我想以公立我想分公司力來談"},{"start":301.051,"end":328.25,"text":"以公立大学的校长临选来讲目前45个公校里面已经有29个学校是已经有把学生代表纳进去了那部里面我们也期待说我们透过我们现在的一些政策工具来让更多学校能够加入因为我还是要强调校长是临选临选重视的是有代表性跟多元性那学生跟老师能够参与到校长临选这是很重要的一个表征"},{"start":328.67,"end":354.484,"text":"所以这是教育部努力的目标所以公立大学已经有29校在有实施学生代表那这块我们会持续的用一些政客工具来引导私立学校的部分会比较保留一点是因为目前私立学校有董事会但是以教育部的立场来讲我们也是希望私下的临选更应该要有公共性的话更应该有多元跟代表所以这块也是我们努力跟私下沟通的"},{"start":354.724,"end":381.467,"text":"好 因為這樣聽起來就是說教育部有一些想法因為畢竟從上個會期到現在應該要有充分的一些討論了那我想1月22號就要開會了是不是可以把當天的議程可以提供到我們辦公室這個部分因為是議程是由協進會在處理我想會用我們把他們目前有一些討論的草稿或放一下先提供給委員對 但是我覺得教育部還是要有一個想法提供因為畢竟是討論嘛所以我覺得這些想法應該都要放進去"},{"start":381.887,"end":407.013,"text":"那再来就是说我想要提到一个比较严重的问题就是我们人才培育政策的结构性失衡现在虽然大家都在讲AI所以我们很多的政策的导向其实都是会往这个方向往科技领域所以就会造成从这张表上面我们可以看到我们的社科的学生其实人数是在下降的那特别是说我们可以看到这个商业级管理学们的人数是降到了28%"},{"start":408.533,"end":433.315,"text":"那我自己会认为这是一个很大的问题在于说因为其实我之前有去年前年吧我去采访了一个我去拜访了一个哈佛大学那他也是AI人工智慧学校的校长那他也是中研院的院士孔院士有提到一个很重要的关键就是说科技AI持续发展因为他也是这个领域的可是他觉得人文社会的学科是可以引领科技依然保有人文的关怀所以"},{"start":434.136,"end":453.999,"text":"而且他會建構一個更明確的方向不會只有從技術的方向所以可是我們現在整體的政策上面從我們的這個審計部的報告可以看到我們雖然宣稱要推動跨領域人才但是跨領域人才往往是變成人文附屬人文附屬於科技"},{"start":456.466,"end":477.981,"text":"人文附属于科技而不是平等的整合例如我们会要求人文社会学生补修城市设计可是我们很少要求工程跟资工的学生在制度性里面要补强公共议题跟伦理社会分析的部分所以这样子的跨领域其实是双向的吗还是它根本就是一个单向的那是否可以检讨我们现在的跨域政策呢"},{"start":478.681,"end":494.415,"text":"是 跟委員報告其實我剛剛在回答葛國勇委有提到我們現在是要教學生能夠應用AI工具能夠用AI工具去解決問題能夠負責任的去使用AI最後有一個其實就是人文社會可以著力的點"},{"start":494.935,"end":516.358,"text":"我们怎么去发现AI做不到的那我相信我们如果要找出新的创新AI做不到的就是在人文社会科技科学领域最有机会所以现在来讲大概分两个城市来讲我们在做的台卡人工智慧大联盟里面我们就是以跨域的方式有提供应用课程跟技术课程给不同对象的"},{"start":517.199,"end":540.142,"text":"同學來做跨域工程跟施工的學生也有被邀通識 那個會通識多少教育部我們有四年的通識計畫這四年通識計畫裡面怎麼針對科技領域的學生讓他具備有人文的思維然後能夠在未來的AI的運他在做一些開發的時候能夠把這樣的思維融進去這也是台灣未來的一個很重要的工作那這個事實也是我們在處理的"},{"start":540.442,"end":566.865,"text":"我想因为时间到了我简单再陈述一下重点因为这件事情不是只有孔院士提到包含去年9月亲子天下他们采访了不管是MIT或者是芬兰各个全世界很多在发展AI领域基本上是很强的专家学者他们都提到了这个概念就是如何在人文思维人文素养里面倒进去才能够去确保我们的科技发展不会走歪"},{"start":567.586,"end":591.821,"text":"特别是说在现在的很多的AI的应用上面其实会大部分使用的其实是儿童儿少就开始使用所以如果我们今天一旦没有掌控这个风险的话就会造成后续可能儿少的这个睡觉力受损所以我有个最后的要求就是说我们是不是可以针对人文社会语文商馆等学们的结构萎缩提出一个风险性的评估第二个我们是不是可以在未来招生跟补助与计划中设路"},{"start":592.481,"end":609.693,"text":"纳入学门结构平衡作为政策目标而不是只有产业需求所以是不是可以提供这两个的改善方案给我们好没问题那大概多久可以提供呢如果既然已经现在有现在是我们可以把一个月整理一下提供给我们可以一个月以内好吗谢谢好谢谢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:05:46.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:05:51.797000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，邀請次長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-08T11:05:51.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:05:51.977000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:05:59.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:00.243000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:00.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:20.091000+08:00","text":"今天我就來跟次長好好討論學生團體，因為我們去年開始有陸陸續續跟很多學生團體討論，大家關注的幾個重點就是校長遴選的部分、校務會議學生能夠參與的比例以及學生自治空間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:20.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:30.970000+08:00","text":"我們先從校務會議開始，因為這個以前就已經有討論過，所以我想要請次長先回想一下，這個十分之一當時到底是怎麼訂出來的？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:32.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:50.627000+08:00","text":"我跟委員說明，在94年修大學法的時候，剛好那個時候我是科長，當初在處理的時候我們有開一個全國學生自治會議，先分區，然後在臺大開一個大會，十分之一是在那時候提出來的一個共識。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:50.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:52.908000+08:00","text":"所以是當時學生團體的共識嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:52.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:54.769000+08:00","text":"對，最早根本沒有這個規定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:54.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:06:55.149000+08:00","text":"我知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:06:56.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:07:15.275000+08:00","text":"在94年之前沒有嘛，但是在第10屆第5會期的教文委員會第10次會議，也就是111年的5月19號，當時您是司長，你說可以改成八分之一，那這個八分之一的依據又是什麼呢？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:07:16.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:07:42.706000+08:00","text":"八分之一是在111年的時候，立法院有討論，當初也沒有院版，所以那時候我們有跟大學做了一些溝通，大學校長的希望是，確實十分之一已經做了將近15年了，如果有機會用漸進的方式，先提到八分之一來做討論，大學的期待是這樣子，就是用漸進的方式。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:07:42.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:07:44.407000+08:00","text":"好，我了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:07:45.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:08:17.751000+08:00","text":"我想再請教一下，我在教育部的人權教育資源網看到一篇討論校務會議學生代表比例的文章，裡面就有講到十分之一是否是一個適當的比例，他認為關鍵不在此，而是在於各校關於校務會議提出臨時動議的比例是否高過此一比例，因為既然學生代表參與了會議，不應該只能出席卻毫無作為，否則只能出席、對所有提案都只能乾瞪眼的話，根本就沒有參與的意義。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:08:17.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:08:24.097000+08:00","text":"所以我找了每個學校的版本，你也可以看到大家的規範跟差異都相當大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:08:24.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:08:51.447000+08:00","text":"我想當初大學法規定十分之一、又設了這些限制之後，就讓學生覺得根本沒有要給他們實質討論的權利，所以現在學生就會希望是不是可以把這樣子的比例提到五分之一，他們一旦擁有20%席次的話，他們就比較容易擁有臨時動議的提案權來阻止一些不合理的規則。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:08:51.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:08:55.169000+08:00","text":"我不曉得現在次長你們的想法是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:08:56.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:09:18.920000+08:00","text":"這點我在跟同學們座談的時候，同學也提到其實比較是一個獨立的提案權，就是可以由學生來獨立提案，這一塊以部裡面的評估應該是我們可以協助學生積極跟大學溝通，所以我現在也是以這個方向在跟大學溝通，是不是讓同學有獨立的提案權，不然現在從3人、5人、8人到十分之一都有。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳：這裡面就有兩個問題","start":"2026-01-08T11:09:23.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:09:25.769000+08:00","text":"學生的席次跟他們能不能夠進入實質討論。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳：這裡面就有兩個問題","start":"2026-01-08T11:09:28.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:09:33.460000+08:00","text":"剛剛聽起來都已經在討論了，我也聽到前面有說到，好像1月底的時候吧……","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:09:33.460000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-08T11:09:36.341000+08:00","text":"22日和23日會召開大學校長會議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:09:36.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:09:50.364000+08:00","text":"22日和23日兩天都有全國校長會議，我希望這個部分也要帶回去跟校長們討論，因為我們之前自己也有詢問一些校長，他們也有提到一個重點，他們為什麼覺得學生的這個想法有點窒礙難行？","quality":0.558},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:09:50.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:09:55.206000+08:00","text":"因為實務上很難找到這麼多的學生，這是他們的一個想法。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:09:55.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:10:06.854000+08:00","text":"但我想這個部分還涉及到、學生也有提到，他們開會總是在期中考、期末考，其實就實質上增加了他們參與的障礙。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:10:07.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:10:19.383000+08:00","text":"所以我希望這些問題也都要在這個會議上面一併討論，因為校園自治以及讓學生有更高的公共參與練習都是非常重要的！是。","quality":0.558},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:10:20.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:10:35.468000+08:00","text":"第二個問題就是關於校長遴選的部分，現在學生特別擔心的就是他們基本上很難去表達自己的意見，但是校長又關係到整個學校治理的方向。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:10:35.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:10:42.050000+08:00","text":"不曉得是不是可以加入學生跟教師的代表，教育部的想法是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:10:42.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:11:14.871000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我想分公私立來談，以公立大學的校長遴選來講，目前45個公校裡面已經有29個學校把學生代表納進去了，部裡面也期待透過現在的一些政策工具讓更多學校能夠加入，因為我還是要強調，校長是遴選，遴選重視的是代表性跟多元性，學生跟老師能夠參與到校長遴選是很重要的一個表徵，所以這是教育部努力的目標。","quality":0.669},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:11:15.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:11:39.464000+08:00","text":"目前公立大學已經有29校實施學生代表，這塊我們會持續用一些政策工具來引導；私立學校的部分會比較保留一點，因為目前私立學校有董事會，但是以教育部的立場來講，我們也是希望私校的遴選要具公共性的話，更應該有多元跟代表，所以這塊也是我們努力跟私校溝通的。","quality":0.673},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:11:40.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:11:52.195000+08:00","text":"現在聽起來教育部有一些想法，畢竟從上個會期到現在應該要有一些充分的討論了，1月22號就要開會了，是不是可以把當天的議程提供到我們辦公室？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:11:52.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:12:01.162000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為議程是由協進會在處理，會後我們把他們目前有一些討論的草稿或方向先提供給委員。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:12:01.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:12:06.447000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得教育部還是要提供一個想法，畢竟是討論，所以我覺得這些想法應該都要放進去。好。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:12:07.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:12:35.155000+08:00","text":"再來，我想要提到一個比較嚴重的問題就是人才培育政策的結構性失衡，現在雖然大家都在講AI，所以我們很多的政策導向其實都會往這個方向、往科技領域，所以就造成社科學生人數是在下降的，特別是商業及管理學門的人數降到了28%，我自己會認為這是一個很大的問題。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:12:38.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:13:02.600000+08:00","text":"前年我去拜訪了一個哈佛大學的學者，他是AI人工智慧學校的校長、同時也中研院的院士，這位孔院士有提到一個很重要的關鍵就是，科技、AI持續發展，他也是這個領域的，可是他覺得人文社會學科可以引領科技依然保有人文的關懷，而且會建構一個更明確的方向，不會只有從技術的方向。","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:13:03.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:13:37.617000+08:00","text":"可是在我們現在整體的政策上，從審計部的報告可以看到，我們雖然宣稱要推動跨領域人才，但是跨領域人才往往是變成人文附屬於科技，而不是平等的整合，例如我們會要求人文社會學生補修程式設計，可是我們很少要求工程跟資工的學生在制度性裡面要補強公共議題跟倫理社會分析的部分，所以這樣子的跨領域是雙向的嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:13:38.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:13:39.898000+08:00","text":"還是這根本就是一個單向的？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:13:40.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:13:42.961000+08:00","text":"是否可以檢討我們現在的跨域政策呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:13:44.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:14:02.037000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我剛剛在回答葛如鈞委員時有提到，我們現在是要教學生能夠應用AI工具去解決問題，能夠負責任地去使用AI，最後有一個其實就是人文社會可以著力的點：我們怎麼去發現AI做不到的？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:14:02.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:14:08.384000+08:00","text":"我相信我們如果要找出新的創新、AI做不到的，就是在人文社會科學領域最有機會。沒錯。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:14:09.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:14:23.080000+08:00","text":"所以現在大概分兩個層次來講，我們在做的TAICA人工智慧大聯盟裡面就是以跨域的方式，提供應用課程跟技術課程給不同對象的同學來做跨域；第二個……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:14:23.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:14:24.461000+08:00","text":"所以工程跟資工的學生應該要……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:14:25.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:14:45.122000+08:00","text":"那個會從通識著手，教育部有4年的通識計畫，這個4年通識計畫裡面針對科技領域的學生怎麼讓他具備人文的思維，在未來的AI運用、他在做一些開發的時候能夠把這樣的思維融進去，這也是臺灣未來一個很重要的工作，這也是我們在處理的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:14:45.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:23.433000+08:00","text":"因為時間到了，我簡單再陳述一下重點，因為這件事情不是只有孔院士提到，包含去年9月親子天下採訪了不管是MIT或者是芬蘭全世界很多在發展AI領域很強的專家學者都提到了這個概念，就是如何在人文思維、人文素養裡面導入進去，才能夠去確保我們的科技發展不會走歪，特別是現在在很多的AI應用上面，其實會使用的大部分是從兒童、兒少就開始使用，所以如果我們今天一旦沒有掌控這個風險的話，可能後續就會使兒少的最佳利益受損。是。","quality":0.672},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:23.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:32.298000+08:00","text":"所以我最後有個要求，我們是不是可以針對人文社會、語文、商管等學門的結構萎縮提出一個風險性的評估？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:33.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:40.963000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們是不是可以在未來招生跟補助與計畫中納入學門結構平衡作為政策目標，而不是只有產業需求？","quality":0.644},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:41.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:44.166000+08:00","text":"所以是不是可以提供這兩個的改善方案給我們？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:44.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:45.166000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題，這是應該做的。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:44.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:45.887000+08:00","text":"大概多久可以提供呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:47.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:48.509000+08:00","text":"如果現在已經有在做……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:48.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:50.870000+08:00","text":"是否可以給我們一個月整理一下，再提供給委員？","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:51.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:51.931000+08:00","text":"可以，一個月以內，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:54.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:54.233000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:54.733000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-08T11:15:58.161571+08:00","text":"謝謝張雅琳委員，官員請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-08T11:15:58.461571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-08T11:16:01.033000+08:00","text":"現在請范雲委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}