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謝謝主席辛苦了我們非常遺憾在今年司法法治委員會居然是讓年改走回頭路那我想先請問兩位你們知道工都盟針對2025年的國會亂象有做出了一個年度代表字你們知道是什麼嗎不好意思 我沒有注意"},{"start":39.71,"end":66.733,"text":"我不知道好 我這個謎底揭曉你們一定很有感就是毀啊毀憲亂政的毀啊我們司法法制是第一線是非常的感同身受啊不管是今天刑事訴訟法這種個案是為個人量身定做的修法或者是一再的禁覆二讀不義而絕的這種暴衝式粗糙的立法或修法"},{"start":68.275,"end":86.835,"text":"誘惑甚至是我們司法法制委員會的民主討論是最欠缺的我上週到未還委員會去審查人工生殖法我赫然發現原來在司法法制委員會已經消失已久的民主討論我很高興在其他委員會依舊可以踐行"},{"start":87.916,"end":106.425,"text":"我們在人工生殖法的討論光討論名稱跟條文第一條都保留就花了將近兩個小時主席不會限制每個委員只能三分鐘發言主席也不會限制只能一次發言主席更不會把立委的多元意見的傳達來消音"},{"start":108.906,"end":131.204,"text":"所以說一個制度的毀壞真的是讓我們都要去深思喔這人民的票選的這個毀對應於今天的修法大家都應當慎重的去反除甚至我們不能接受什麼叫做先求有再求好這種立法的思維下一頁"},{"start":132.937,"end":156.23,"text":"年改表決走回頭路年金永續成空 世代爭議也不見了今天的爭點有兩個第一個 翁小玲委員要求我們要返還兩年的退休義扣的退休金事實上關鍵就在於剛剛秘書長已經清楚的說明了就是條文在修正的時候"},{"start":157.487,"end":184.199,"text":"並沒有去定施行日期嘛所以說我們依據過去中央法規標準法13條的規定施行日期就是發佈之日起的三日發生效力嘛這是立法者自己要知道的ABC嘛自己在修法的時候沒有把施行日期的配套思考清楚現在反要求我們要去違法要去把兩年的義扣退休金一併要返還"},{"start":185.439,"end":211.952,"text":"自己修法修不好還要怪全序部真的是毀啦 整座海料料啊 整座都毀啦所以這個部分不該做的不能夠逼考試院來違法行政嘛這是第一個爭點你們早上我的意見理解有沒有錯誤沒有好第二個呢就是在我們試算的那個期限剛剛部長說"},{"start":213.615,"end":241.005,"text":"至少大概六個月因為幾個原因要系統要再重做那還有要跟當事人確認嘛對不對中間又卡一個過年今年過年的年假又不再等我想問一下我們過去在2017年修正年改法案那是進步性的修法的時候我們的準備期是有入法吧"},{"start":241.858,"end":258.669,"text":"對 我們給了一年的實施期間所以當時 過渡期間當時的立法者就沒有發生這種普隆功的 幾週還料料的修法嘛清楚的入法 也給予我們相關的行政部門一個合理作業的時間 試算然後通知當事人"},{"start":259.389,"end":285.439,"text":"所以給了一年 而且當時是入法嘛 對不對那為什麼過去的立法院做得到現在的立法院這麼的 這麼的粗糙這個水準水平真的是走回頭路啊 跟年改一樣 都走回頭路啊那去年的這個警消條例的修法有入法嗎 準備期 也沒有就沒有嘛 這非常符合這一屆國會的特色就是完全沒有把配套想清楚"},{"start":286.175,"end":301.126,"text":"沒有入法沒有像2017年的年改非常嚴謹的給予你們入法的一年的合一的準備期那警消條例也沒有修法也沒有入法但是你們就警消條例試算的這些的經驗值那時候花了多少時間"},{"start":302.09,"end":313.935,"text":"我們大概前前後後也差不多半年啦就是半年是起跳的嘛就是到半年左右我們把最後的審定函發出去那前面就有很多開始做系統更換測試還有確認這樣一個陸陸續續的過程"},{"start":317.436,"end":335.769,"text":"雖然警消人員條例我們現在釋憲中所以雖然暫時沒有執行要等釋憲的結果但是我們也依法律通過你們也去啟動了這個試算而那個半年的時間現在運用在年改的這個案子就是合宜的"},{"start":336.309,"end":354.9,"text":"我們內部事實上是真的做評估我必須尊重同仁作業的那個所以在警消的部分大概當初預估到有4萬個案件那這個呢是我們要重新發出18萬的一個肯定雖然案件有簡單有比較複雜但是我們都希望一起"},{"start":356.44,"end":370.447,"text":"所以六個月真的只是一個合宜時間的最低標準我還很擔心你剛講警消影響是4萬多人這一次公教反年改是18萬所以說委員不要再為難考試院了"},{"start":371.707,"end":386.718,"text":"要不然當初修法的時候自己把配套準備期的時間定清楚嘛所以說真的是整週海料料下一頁你們已經提出釋憲文了是民進黨團也將在本週或下週就會遞案"},{"start":388.479,"end":417.819,"text":"我們期待憲法法庭除了受理釋憲也希望能夠做出暫時處分就我們期待唯有做出暫時處分才能夠讓民進黨團我們所主張的這個年該走回頭路停下來但如果即便送釋憲暫時處分也還沒有出來包括我們尊重大法官是否受理所有的作業程序都是朝要進行要終止的方向所以沒有不執行這個也要講清楚來秘書長"},{"start":419.159,"end":447.728,"text":"因為現在法律已經公佈生效所以在相關的處置上都會合法所以說這個社會也會有些誤解說年改過了你們又不執行事實上當憲法法庭已經恢復運作我們申請釋憲然後希望憲法法庭能夠做出合宜的暫時處分的處分否則我們都還是照法律通過的準備在進行相關的作業審定工作本身就是執行的第一步"},{"start":448.548,"end":471.906,"text":"那這個是需要時間 第一個是不能出錯第二個是不能讓同仁過勞 也不能操之過急去倉促上路所以我希望你們能夠把作業做得嚴謹絕對不能先求有再求好這個也是 李歡迎的壞習慣不要傳染到其他的憲政機關來 部長要補充沒有錯 全局部對於退休案件的審定一向高度嚴謹所以我們一定不能出錯"},{"start":472.786,"end":497.042,"text":"但是這需要作業時間因為這關乎每一位公教人員的權益我們一定會努力做但是我們不想讓他做一個出錯又一堆重新又回來重新要更改所以立法委員自己急救張爆充式的這種壞習慣真的不要強加在其他憲政機關身上好 兩位請回那我請司法院的複密也請法務部的次長不好意思 暫用多一點點時間許次"},{"start":503.447,"end":521.765,"text":"今天對於刑事訴訟法的惡修鼓勵篡政篡到保讓共犯權解套我當然覺得這個是萬萬不可我們絕對反對 下一頁但我要先問我要感謝也肯定這個法務部在中國對於我國檢察官被列他們的台獨打手"},{"start":522.566,"end":551.505,"text":"跟吳思瑤同級 我也是台獨打手但沒有想到我們的司法人員也被這樣子的對待我肯定你們第一時間部長就出來喊話這是傷害台灣的司法獨立中國沒有權利長臂管轄 跨境鎮壓更重要的是 不要傷害台灣的司法主權這是台灣的司法主權下一頁但是呢 我就覺得你們有一個部分就沒有做得特別到位了"},{"start":552.746,"end":576.646,"text":"這麼多的人公然挑戰司法的公信力包括傅坤祺總召公然對社會說 怕賤人沒有背兩三條案怕賣大賣啦這種做法就是社會非常負面的示範包括館長他自己恐嚇國家元首被起訴他居然還來做這種"},{"start":578.325,"end":598.327,"text":"要求總統出庭不出庭就是冤案又開始來民粹跟司法操弄了包括蔡正元三中案定案了以後國民黨黨主席還頒給他實踐一等獎章國民黨是上上下下在鼓勵犯罪嗎"},{"start":599.808,"end":626.007,"text":"還有前兩天看到蔡正元先生跟柯文哲前主席公然非常挑釁的做了一個合拍秀出他們的電子交流所以網路上大家盛傳說到底台灣社會怎麼了這些對於社會的輿論都有影響力的政治人物公然的都來做這些鼓勵犯罪或是摧毀司法公信力的這些操作"},{"start":627.808,"end":635.121,"text":"對應於剛剛我們對於國台辦對台灣的司法人員的這種威嚇跨境鎮壓我們第一時間的來反制"},{"start":636.263,"end":659.381,"text":"我真的覺得台灣的法治教育不能夠海嘹嘹啊我們都參加扶輪社啊扶輪社每年多努力的我們都有這個法治教育委員會去各個學校各個社區推廣正確的法治教育但是當這些人都不斷的在用他的影響力來愚弄司法愚弄民粹的時候你們要do something啊"},{"start":661.824,"end":687.185,"text":"複密跟次長這個部分你們好像就都當然尊重了這他們的言論自由可是站在法律教育法治教育的角色我認為我們不能一再姑息來次長回答我想他們相關人政治人物他的言行社會自由公斷那我想捍衛司法公信力應該是全民都應該來信守來支持的"},{"start":688.172,"end":712.219,"text":"強化法治教育好嗎?當我們知道國內的政治人物搭配著中共的認知作戰都在摧毀台灣的司法主權的時候我們還是要去做必要的事還是要做必要的事 要不然就害怕那些大小的孩子要大胃就要犯法整個社會最大在野黨在鼓勵犯罪我們不能縱容好 下一頁"},{"start":713.806,"end":735.073,"text":"今天這個提案人黃國昌委員到美國去了所以說他的提案是自己不敢面對嗎我也不知道 落跑的真是時間提案人就是黃國昌他自己不敢面對下一頁我來講重點了就是我們法務部反對的幾個理由刑事訴訟法不能被惡修因為我們必須要保全證據我們要"},{"start":738.382,"end":757.559,"text":"不能夠影響打擊犯罪向上溯源的這些作為而且羈押制度不能因為個案受到摧毀對不對淪為犯罪者的保護傘更重要的是現行羈押處分是法官保留法官以比率原則來審定就是確保他的最小傷害"},{"start":758.3,"end":785.582,"text":"大法官釋字392號就很清楚的說負面應當很清楚就是檢察官只有申請權但是就是法官保留只有法官擁有這個權利所以說我們這樣子的要求都是大法官釋字大法官又說話了但立法院又要違憲了我具體還調出我下一頁剛剛大家都講了詐騙集團 毒品都是這些串證者的大宗"},{"start":786.443,"end":801.587,"text":"尤其呢這個電信詐欺的九成的案件也都是透過串證可能讓他逃之夭夭喔所以說我調出司法院的統計報告說過去20年來從2007到2022其實我們當時的准雨積壓率在2007到2014年大概是11700多件但是到"},{"start":813.008,"end":827.937,"text":"14年的時候就是腰斬減少變一半6000件換言之就是法官保留越為謹慎嘛對不對但是呢後來在20232024又幾乎又回到15年前的羈押數原因是什麼"},{"start":829.195,"end":857.172,"text":"就是因為打詐嘛就是因為打詐的需求嘛所以說這是一個新興犯罪社會有共識的事情如果在沒有這些惡意的去篡證湮滅證據的這些打詐詐欺毒品或是性侵的案件如果沒有這些事情的話我們可以回到一個合宜的法官保留他會在侵害最小最小保護的那個原則裡頭去拿捏嘛"},{"start":858.272,"end":868.1,"text":"所以說這個事情黃國昌委員從頭到尾他的提案都是毫無正當性只是為了個案的修法所以我再一次的表達喔"},{"start":869.693,"end":892.584,"text":"我們不要為詐騙集團來脫罪不要讓組織犯罪者獲得保護傘不要為某些政黨的偽造連署讓它成為台灣民主的常態我們也不鼓勵一些竊取國家核心技術譬如說台積電泄密案的這些人可以因為刪除了串證的要件"},{"start":895.788,"end":912.399,"text":"而讓這種竊取國家核心技術的人他可以逃之夭夭當然對於虐童對於兒少性犯罪還有對於共諜的滲透共諜滲透也是這一類非常需要去防範的對象"},{"start":914.266,"end":935.773,"text":"所以如果在野黨執意要把這個二修又要爆充式的修法又要先求有再求好亂修一通最後事情大條了再來趕快修回來司法法制太擅長了啦法院組織法法庭直播不是這樣嗎自己進附二讀修壞了然後再來遷怒於司法院"},{"start":937.079,"end":961.302,"text":"我們不容刑事訴訟法再這樣被惡修何況今天提案人黃國昌自己都畏罪潛逃所以我是建議主席提案人不在我們今天很難討論他怎麼去闡述他的提案的意旨呢當提案人自己都不願意面對了都自己都不敢面對了那我們何必"},{"start":963.126,"end":970.44,"text":"這樣認真的替他審查他的議案呢所以說如果刑事訴訟法被惡修而提案人又不在場"},{"start":972.25,"end":993.366,"text":"那我覺得這樣子的討論是非常沒有踐行民主的原則我們也要尊重黃國昌提案人的權益不是嗎他應當到場來為自己的提案來捍衛不是嗎好我們繼續該捍衛的就堅持我們都不要淪為犯罪者的保護傘被利用了好謝謝主席謝謝大家好"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:00.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:08.098000+08:00","text":"請劉秘書長及施部長，謝謝主席。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:08.098000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:09.098000+08:00","text":"請劉秘書長及施部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:09.098000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:10.098000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:08.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:09.318000+08:00","text":"辛苦了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:10.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:15.500000+08:00","text":"我們非常遺憾在今年司法及法制委員會居然是讓年改走回頭路。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:16.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:26.363000+08:00","text":"我想先請問兩位，公督盟針對2025年的國會亂象，有做出了一個年度代表字，你們知道是什麼嗎？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:26.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:28.244000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我沒有注意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:29.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:30.631000+08:00","text":"我不知道。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:31.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:34.975000+08:00","text":"我謎底揭曉，你們一定很有感，就是「毀」啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:37.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:45:37.777000+08:00","text":"毀憲亂政的「毀」。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:45:38.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:46:02.459000+08:00","text":"我們司法及法制是第一線，是非常的感同身受，不管是今天刑事訴訟法這種個案式、為個人量身訂做的修法，或者是一再逕付二讀、不議而決的這種暴衝式、粗糙的立法或修法，又或甚至是我們司法及法制委員會的民主討論是最欠缺的。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:46:03.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:46:16.815000+08:00","text":"我上週到衛環委員會去審查人工生殖法，我赫然發現原來在司法及法制委員會消失已久的民主討論，我很高興在其他委員會依舊可以踐行。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:46:17.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:47:00.984000+08:00","text":"我們在人工生殖法的討論中，光討論名稱跟第一條條文都保留，就花了將近2個小時，主席不會限制每個委員只能3分鐘發言，主席也不會限制只能1次發言，主席更不會把立委多元意見的傳達消音，所以一個制度的毀壞真的是讓我們都要去深思，這人民票選的這個「毀」對應今天的修法，大家都應當慎重的反芻，甚至我們不能接受什麼叫做「先求有再求好」這種立法的思維。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:47:02.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:47:08.340000+08:00","text":"「年改表決走回頭路，年金永續成空」，世代正義也不見了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:47:09.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:47:29.528000+08:00","text":"今天的爭點有兩個：第一個，翁曉玲委員要求我們要返還2年退休溢扣的退休金，事實上，關鍵就在於剛剛秘書長已經清楚地說明了，條文在修正的時候並沒有去訂施行日期嘛！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:47:30.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:47:41.753000+08:00","text":"所以我們依據過去中央法規標準法第十三條規定，施行日期就是發布之日起的3日發生效力，這是立法者自己要知道的ABC嘛！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:47:42.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:47:54.199000+08:00","text":"自己在修法的時候，沒有把施行日期的配套思考清楚，現在反要求我們要去違法，要把2年的溢扣退休金一併要返還。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:47:55.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:47:59.461000+08:00","text":"自己修法修不好還要怪銓敘部，真的是毀啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:47:59.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:02.282000+08:00","text":"整組「害了了」、整組都毀啦！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:03.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:09.065000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分不該做的，不能夠逼考試院來違法行政嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:09.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:10.866000+08:00","text":"這是第一個爭點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:10.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:15.108000+08:00","text":"你們早上所說的，就我的意見理解有沒有錯誤？沒有。好。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:16.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:35.479000+08:00","text":"第二個，在我們試算的那個期限，剛剛部長說至少要6個月，因為幾個原因導致系統要再重做，還有要跟當事人確認嘛，對不對？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:35.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:39.821000+08:00","text":"中間還卡一個過年，今年過年的年假又很長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:41.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:50.985000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，我們過去在2017年修正年改法案，那是進步性修法的時候，我們的準備期是有入法吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:51.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:48:54.019000+08:00","text":"對，我們給了1年的實施期間，也就是過渡時間。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:48:54.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:00.884000+08:00","text":"所以當時立法者就沒有發生這種「浮浪貢」、整組「害了了」的修法嘛！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:01.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:12.430000+08:00","text":"清楚的入法，也給予我們相關行政部門一個合理作業時間試算，然後通知當事人，所以給了1年，而且當時是入法嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:12.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:17.112000+08:00","text":"為什麼過去的立法院做得到，現在的立法院這麼的粗糙？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:18.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:20.373000+08:00","text":"這個水準、水平真的是走回頭路啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:20.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:22.114000+08:00","text":"跟年改一樣都走回頭路。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:23.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:28.216000+08:00","text":"去年警消條例的修法，準備期有入法嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:28.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:29.457000+08:00","text":"也沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:29.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:30.357000+08:00","text":"就沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:31.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:42.219000+08:00","text":"這非常符合這一屆國會的特色，就是完全沒有把配套想清楚、沒有入法、沒有像2017年的年改非常嚴謹的給予你們入法的1年合宜準備期。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:43.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:51.126000+08:00","text":"警消條例也沒有入法，但是你們就警消條例試算這些的經驗值，那時候花了多少時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:52.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:54.431000+08:00","text":"我們大概前前後後也差不多半年啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:54.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:49:56.532000+08:00","text":"就是起跳是半年的嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:49:57.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:50:03.915000+08:00","text":"就是半年左右，我們把最後的審定函發出去，前面就有很多開始做系統更換、測試，還有確認這樣陸陸續續的過程。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:50:07.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:50:10.578000+08:00","text":"警消人員條例我們現在釋憲中啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:50:12.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:50:25.749000+08:00","text":"雖然暫時沒有執行，要等釋憲的結果，但是我們也依法律通過，你們也去啟動了這個試算，而那個半年的時間，現在運用在年改的這個案子就是合宜的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:50:26.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:50:39.517000+08:00","text":"我們內部事實上是真的有做評估，我必須尊重同仁作業，所以在警消的部分，當初預估大概4萬個案件，這次我們要重新發出18萬的審定……18萬。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:50:39.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:50:44.880000+08:00","text":"雖然案件有簡單，也有比較複雜，但是我們都希望一起作業完成。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:50:46.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:06.731000+08:00","text":"好，所以6個月真的只是一個合宜時間的最低標準，我還很擔心，你剛剛講警消影響是四萬多人，這一次公教反年改是18萬，所以說委員不要再為難考試院了，要不然當初修法的時候自己把配套準備期的時間定清楚嘛！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:07.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:08.512000+08:00","text":"所以說真的是整組壞光光。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:10.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:12.475000+08:00","text":"你們已經提出釋憲文了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:12.475000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:14.516000+08:00","text":"是，已經送了。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:14.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:32.669000+08:00","text":"民進黨團在本週或下週就會遞案，我們期待憲法法庭除了受理釋憲，也希望能夠做出暫時處分，這我們期待，唯有做出暫時處分，才能夠讓這個年改走回頭路停下來。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:32.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:47.398000+08:00","text":"但即便送釋憲，暫時處分也還沒有出來，我們尊重大法官是否受理，所有的作業程序都是朝要進行、要終止的方向，所以沒有不執行，這個也要講清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:47.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:47.819000+08:00","text":"來，秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:49.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:53.020000+08:00","text":"是，因為現在法律已經公布生效，所以在相關的處置上都會合法。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:54.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:51:58.462000+08:00","text":"是，所以這個社會也會有些誤解，說年改過了，你們又不執行。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:51:58.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:16.067000+08:00","text":"事實上，當憲法法庭已經恢復運作，我們聲請釋憲，然後希望憲法法庭能夠做出合宜的暫時處分，否則我們都還是照法律通過的準備在進行相關作業。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻：審定工作本身就是執行的第一步，這個需要時間","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:19.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:24.673000+08:00","text":"第一個這不能出錯；第二個不能讓同仁過勞，也不能操之過急去倉促上路。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:25.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:35.481000+08:00","text":"是，所以我希望你們能夠把作業做得嚴謹，絕對不能先求有再求好，這個是立法院的壞習慣，不要傳染到其他的憲政機關。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:35.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:35.941000+08:00","text":"部長要補充？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:36.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:44.587000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，銓敘部對於退休案件的審定一向高度嚴謹，所以我們一定不能出錯，但是這需要作業時間……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:44.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:46.829000+08:00","text":"因為這關乎每一位公教人員的權益。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:47.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:52:53.533000+08:00","text":"我們一定會努力做，我們不想出錯又一堆要重新回來更改，這不是好事情。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:52:53.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:53:02.379000+08:00","text":"所以立法委員自己急就章、暴衝式的這種壞習慣，真的不要強加在其他憲政機關身上。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:53:02.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:53:03.359000+08:00","text":"兩位請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:53:04.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:53:06.501000+08:00","text":"我請司法院的副秘，也請法務部的次長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:53:06.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:53:22.456000+08:00","text":"不好意思占用多一點點時間，今天對於刑事訴訟法惡修，鼓勵串證串到飽，讓共犯全解套，我當然覺得這個是萬萬不可，我們絕對反對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:53:23.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:53:39.030000+08:00","text":"但我要先問，我感謝也肯定法務部，對於我國檢察官被中國列為臺獨打手，跟吳思瑤同級，我也是臺獨打手，但沒有想到我們的司法人員也被這樣子對待。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:53:39.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:53:56.121000+08:00","text":"我肯定你們第一時間部長就出來喊話，這是傷害臺灣的司法獨立，中國沒有權力長臂管轄、跨境鎮壓，更重要的是不要傷害臺灣的司法主權，這是臺灣的司法主權。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:53:57.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:54:48.327000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得你們有一個部分就沒有做得特別到位，這麼多的人公然挑戰司法的公信力，包括傅崐萁總召公然對社會說，走政治的沒有揹兩、三條案件不會「大尾」，這種做法就是社會非常負面的示範；包括館長，他自己恐嚇國家元首，被起訴，居然還來做這種要求，要求總統出庭，不出庭就是冤案，又開始來民粹跟司法操弄了；包括蔡正元三中案定案了以後，國民黨黨主席還頒給他實踐一等獎章，國民黨是上上下下在鼓勵犯罪嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:54:49.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:55:03.097000+08:00","text":"還有前兩天看到蔡正元先生跟柯文哲主席公然、非常挑釁的合拍，秀出他們的電子腳鐐，所以網路上大家盛傳，到底臺灣社會怎麼了？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:55:03.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:55:15.987000+08:00","text":"這些對於社會輿論都有影響力的政治人物，都來公然做這些鼓勵犯罪或是摧毀司法公信力的操作。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:55:17.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:55:25.101000+08:00","text":"對應剛剛我們提到國台辦對臺灣司法人員的這種威嚇、跨境鎮壓，我們第一時間來反制。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:55:26.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:55:49.361000+08:00","text":"我真的覺得臺灣的法治教育不能夠壞光光，我們都參加扶輪社，扶輪社每年多努力，我們都有法治教育委員會去各個學校、各個社區推廣正確的法治教育，但是當這些人都不斷的在用他的影響力愚弄司法、愚弄民粹的時候，你們要do something啊！","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:55:52.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:55:56.228000+08:00","text":"副秘跟次長，這個部分你們好像就都……當然尊重啦！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:55:56.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:02.333000+08:00","text":"這是他們的言論自由，可是站在法律教育、法治教育的角色，我認為我們不能一再姑息。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:03.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:03.574000+08:00","text":"次長要回答？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:05.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:17.165000+08:00","text":"我想相關政治人物的言行，社會自有公斷，我想捍衛司法公信力，是全民都應該信守、支持的。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:18.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:20.253000+08:00","text":"強化法治教育好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:20.253000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:21.253000+08:00","text":"這當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:20.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:29.935000+08:00","text":"當我們知道國內的政治人物搭配著中共的認知作戰，都在摧毀臺灣的司法主權的時候，我們還是要去做必要的事。是。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:31.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:40.958000+08:00","text":"還是要做必要的事，不然就教壞了大大小小的孩子，要「大尾」就要犯法，整個社會最大在野黨在鼓勵犯罪，我們不能縱容。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:43.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:50.248000+08:00","text":"今天提案人黃國昌委員到美國去了，所以說他的提案是自己不敢面對嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:50.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:56:56.730000+08:00","text":"我也不知道，落跑的真是時間，提案人就是黃國昌，他自己不敢面對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:56:57.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:57:18.691000+08:00","text":"我來講重點，就是我們法務部反對的幾個理由，刑事訴訟法不能被惡修，因為我們必須要保全證據，我們不能夠影響打擊犯罪、向上溯源的這些作為，而且羈押制度不能因為個案受到摧毀，淪為犯罪者的保護傘。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:57:18.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:57:27.539000+08:00","text":"更重要的是，現行羈押處分是法官保留，法官依比例原則來審定，就是確保它的最小傷害。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:57:28.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:57:47.356000+08:00","text":"大法官釋字第392號就很清楚地說，副秘應當很清楚，就是檢察官只有聲請權，但是就是法官保留，只有法官擁有這個權力，所以我們這樣子的要求都是依據大法官釋字，大法官又說話了，但立法院又要違憲了。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:57:50.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:58:03.265000+08:00","text":"剛剛大家都講了，詐騙集團、毒品都是這些串證者的大宗，尤其電信詐欺九成的案件，透過串證也都可能讓他逃之夭夭。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:58:05.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:58:37.937000+08:00","text":"我調出司法院的統計報告，過去二十年來，從2007年到2022年，其實我們當時在2007年到2014年的准予羈押率大概是一萬一千七百多件，但是到2014年的時候腰斬，減少變一半，剩6,000件，換言之就是法官保留越為謹慎，但是後來在2023年、2024年幾乎又回到十五年前的羈押數，原因是什麼？","quality":0.777},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:58:39.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:58:40.156000+08:00","text":"就是因為打詐嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:58:40.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:58:42.377000+08:00","text":"就是因為打詐的需求嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:58:43.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:59:07.151000+08:00","text":"所以這是新興犯罪，社會有共識的事情，如果沒有這些惡意去串證、湮滅證據的詐欺、毒品或是性侵的案件，如果沒有這些事情的話，我們可以回到合宜的法官保留，他會在侵害最小的那個保護原則裡頭去拿捏嘛！","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:59:08.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:59:16.379000+08:00","text":"所以這個事情從頭到尾黃國昌委員的提案都毫無正當性，只是為了個案的修法。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:59:16.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:59:32.820000+08:00","text":"所以我再一次的表達，我們不要為詐騙集團脫罪、不要讓組織犯罪者獲得保護傘、不要讓某些政黨的偽造連署成為臺灣民主的常態。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:59:32.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:59:51.252000+08:00","text":"我們也不鼓勵一些竊取國家核心技術，譬如說台積電洩密案的這些人，可以因為刪除了串證的要件，而讓這種竊取國家核心技術的人可以逃之夭夭。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T10:59:51.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:00:02.379000+08:00","text":"當然，對於虐童、對於兒少性犯罪還有對於共諜的滲透，共諜滲透也是這一類非常需要去防範的對象嘛！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:00:04.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:00:18.010000+08:00","text":"所以，如果在野黨執意要把這個法惡修，又要暴衝式的修法、又要先求有再求好，亂修一通，最後「事情大條了」，再趕快修回來，這部分司法及法制委員會太擅長了啦！","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:00:18.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:00:22.072000+08:00","text":"法院組織法中的法庭直播，不就是這樣嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:00:22.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:00:25.753000+08:00","text":"自己逕付二讀，修壞了，然後再來遷怒司法院！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:00:27.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:00:41.713000+08:00","text":"我們不容刑事訴訟法再這樣被惡修，何況今天的提案人黃國昌自己都畏罪潛逃，所以我建議主席，提案人不在場，我們今天很難討論，他要怎麼去闡述提案的意旨呢？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:00:42.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:00:54.669000+08:00","text":"當提案人自己都不願意面對了，自己都不敢面對了，我們何必這樣認真地替他審查議案！","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:00:55.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:01:10.676000+08:00","text":"所以如果刑事訴訟法被惡修，而提案人又不在場，我覺得這樣子的討論，非常沒有踐行民主的原則，我們也要尊重黃國昌提案人的權益，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:01:10.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:01:14.279000+08:00","text":"他應當到場來捍衛自己的提案，不是嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-01-12T11:01:14.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:01:23.226000+08:00","text":"好，我們繼續該捍衛的就堅持，我們都不要淪為犯罪者的保護傘而被利用了，謝謝主席、謝謝大家。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:01:23.726000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:01:33.440286+08:00","text":"接下來請吳宗憲委員發言，等會在王鴻薇委員詢答完畢之後，我們就休息5分鐘，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}