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沒關係啦可能他老婆老公一年都給他一萬塊都沒問題嘛所以川普總統這一千塊"},{"start":153.576,"end":170.942,"text":"對於一個六四家庭連欠錢都有困難只有他有一個一千塊派對後面的老闆老婦有辦法每年欠錢嗎這不知道對於後面的人來說你沒有發一千塊川普你沒有發一千塊我也是每天每年都給你放一萬塊美金對不對一千塊對於一萬塊來說未來十八年人家十八萬人家一千塊所以川普這個政策看起來是對"},{"start":178.564,"end":198.141,"text":"普通的美国人的家庭尤其是没有厨师的家庭有个高的厨师嘛你知不知道现在在野党的版本是什么 往下看蓝白的未来账户是年给12年我看到一下嘛 他的第六条试用对象只要出生未满12岁是不是免年给啊"},{"start":199.517,"end":216.895,"text":"他們是 他的版本是說每年都還要加一萬進去每年還要再加一萬喔有沒有要求他們的父母要加沒有嘛 對所以說白色的午餐最香嘛那建物開請就好了嘛這當然要是我是弱勢家庭我也歡迎啦但是有個問題"},{"start":218.476,"end":225.663,"text":"你們有沒有算過 你們算過嗎 差不多隆重要開多少報告委員 我們這樣算算的 可能第一年就要開多少這樣總共的方案4030啦 4000控30億第一年就要開多少 隆重12年 隆重要開4000多億4000億 12年4000億 看起來跟"},{"start":241.798,"end":269.725,"text":"在野黨堅持的年改增加的國家負債好像又是一筆反年改倒退的一個負擔耶今天我是主計總署他們就不用了我們都知道這個錢國家的錢那有人說這個會不會排擠到現在預算我很懷疑未來12年國家總共要支付4000多億跟我們的年金改革未來10年未來每年要付3600億哇 這筆錢很大有人覺得中華民國國庫很有錢繼續花來往下看"},{"start":270.796,"end":291.719,"text":"好 那民眾怎麼看呢民眾認為說 這個投票的結果多數的民眾 6成5是反對有部分民眾是保留 他說金額要小不能亂花錢有條件贊成只應照顧弱勢請問你覺得這兩點你支不支持金額要小不要亂花錢有條件贊成限於弱勢家庭"},{"start":293.959,"end":320.824,"text":"反對的我們不講啦 有人都反對說政府亂花錢啊資源有限啊 財政負擔啊 政策好聽啊 效果有限啊對於沒有小孩或小孩長大下來不公平啊 這就不看了對於說金額要適度要照顧弱勢家庭 你支持嗎包委員 這個其實也是卓院長在元旦他有一個政策說明其中有很重要的事實上就是要擴大我們現在目前但是要弱勢優先弱勢優先 好 那我們現在看啦"},{"start":321.784,"end":345.754,"text":"所以說我們覺得在野黨在幫助有錢人的世代財富傳承你看看根據這個第12條跟13條未來中的特別條例他這個開戶是在怎樣開戶人或他的法定代理人最近親屬他要存好啦其實富裕家庭的人他本來就會存如果是弱智家庭的可能沒有辦法存所以如果"},{"start":346.584,"end":372.523,"text":"弱勢家庭的都只是靠政府存他的福利效果有限有錢家庭的他利上加利等於是政府幫他住很大的一臂之力這樣子在我們的國家的一個社會公平正義來講這會不會是一種所得的逆分配啊包圍這可能複製現有的這個階級的還有家庭複製現有的階級差異因為等於是什麼呢我們看來下一張等於是窮人家"},{"start":373.644,"end":385.808,"text":"今日的麵包成為富二代的未來金幣啊我們把這第一年的一千多億未來的十一年還加上三千多億這些都是用當年度政府的預算納稅人繳的稅嘛沒錯"},{"start":388.062,"end":408.735,"text":"納稅人我知道目前有56%的人要繳薪資所得稅其他的人44%所得未達這個程度那現在這些沒有繳稅的經濟能力未達繳稅額度的是不是就是我們衛務部你們要去關注的對象要把大家繳來的錢有能力繳稅的56%的人他繳了稅"},{"start":411.216,"end":435.502,"text":"讓我們政府來照顧這沒有能力角色的44%這是衛福部的事情沒錯 所以我們市部長說資源要用在刀口上是 好但是如果我們現在為了這個未來帳戶12年拿了4000億每年等於是你第一年1000億 每年要拿300億出來預算要編在哪裡編在衛福部名下衛福部有辦法漲出每年多300億嗎"},{"start":438.303,"end":461.234,"text":"還是說我們的錢還是從納稅人的錢來所以納稅人繳來的錢本來叫衛福部要照顧弱勢的現在在幫誰的忙幫那些富家庭的二代放他18歲以後的明日金幣啊對沒錯我先問一下你知道目前因為我在財政委員會今天實戰聯席啊我們都知道保險業者最喜歡做什麼業務"},{"start":462.645,"end":479.26,"text":"高資產客戶用保單來做什麼財富傳承因為保險的受益人保險的保費繳那麼多高額保費受益人當被保險人頑固的時候受益人他的那個保險的幾戶要不要課稅"},{"start":481.499,"end":510.411,"text":"不用課稅不用課稅那現在你這樣的一個版本就當於有錢家庭的人他放到這個帳戶的錢未來他小孩用的時候要不要課稅這個不知道啦那宋署長一點點時間趕快你講一下這樣到底有沒有對富家庭來講節稅的效果我要是買保單傳承財富我可以免於被課稅那這個呢這個衛福部的麵包牛奶貧困家庭的這個錢拿來給藍白板的未來家庭"},{"start":510.971,"end":539.153,"text":"他們父母啊 你每年存那麼多我存十倍下去存在帳戶的錢未來可以不用繳稅嗎如果他已經存到小孩的帳戶就變成小孩的錢了那要怎麼所以未來小孩體靈本金的部分沒有稅的問題當他產生的知習是有稅的問題來 目前如果我們有錢家庭在場的有錢家庭像財富傳承財政部一年給多少的這樣的一個證語或者是幫小孩子存錢的利息的這個租稅優惠"},{"start":541.007,"end":558.015,"text":"如果是正宇的話每年是244萬以現在的額度244萬我每年要想辦法挪244萬給我兒子在他未成年之前我想都有困難那這244萬是不用稅啦是不用課金一歲好 所以來 部長請你上台啦"},{"start":559.478,"end":572.587,"text":"總究你要來做個Ending我請了次長 請了署長那請問一下那麼川普的賬戶給其他國家一個參考有沒有其他國家曾經做過類似的事情"},{"start":573.949,"end":590.024,"text":"据了解的话在英国也做过类似更早做过英国做过类似更早那英国有继续做吗没有了没有没有办法在财务上永续没有办法在财务上永续所以我们规节我们对于"},{"start":591.385,"end":612.007,"text":"仿造川普帳戶這樣的一個操作業到台灣之後變成是一個每年都要給父母也不見得要給然後造成的是一個逆所得的逆分配造成還是國家的財政負擔還造成了會排擠到衛福部其他照顧弱勢家庭你們現在有在照顧弱勢家庭的類似這樣的政策嗎"},{"start":612.708,"end":629.177,"text":"有多少人受益这个受益目标是应该6万人左右目前有多少万人目前是近4万3万9千多人很好所以如果我们要照顾这些弱势家庭的孩子目标6万我们的卫护部一年要放多少钱进去"},{"start":630.633,"end":655.534,"text":"因為這個目前開戶的最高我們一年對波是一萬五所以目前的預算投入大概多少了幾億啊 一萬五大概簡單講 已經投入都好了六億左右投了六億了對 一年大概要編六億但是目前在我們國家給需要照顧人六億跟給所有有錢的家庭的小孩每個人加起來全部一千億你認為會不會有排擠效果"},{"start":658.576,"end":681.783,"text":"我想這個事情我還是覺得我的意見不能代表全體的意見但是我想我們來自不同的家庭不同的社會階層有夢最美但是現實是很骨感的想像很豐滿但是這件事情到底要怎麼樣才能齊全我們支持國家要來支持人民的下一代讓下一代他出生之後他未來有保障"},{"start":682.683,"end":701.21,"text":"如果有該公聽會您覺得你會推薦哪些團體或希望我們找哪些團體來參與意見請你回去想一下好不好那麼一個星期內給我個名單未來可能我們要是要辦公廳的話我們希望邀請各種不同的團體來討論這一點好不好好一個星期好謝謝謝謝中嘉賓委員發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:00.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:06.262000+08:00","text":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長及官員、會場的工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:07.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:09.745000+08:00","text":"讓部長休息一下，待會還有人要繼續請教你。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:10.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:10.526000+08:00","text":"讓次長上來，呂次長，請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:10.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:10.886000+08:00","text":"請呂次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:10.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:11.246000+08:00","text":"辛苦了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:11.246000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:27.322000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:27.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:27.602000+08:00","text":"次長，你好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:28.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:40.369000+08:00","text":"我想整個早上你聽了很多國民黨和民眾黨的委員跟你請教這個問題，心裡有很多想法，我跟你一樣有很多疑問，要一個一個問。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:27:40.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:27:57.978000+08:00","text":"說到川普，其實很特別，當美國總統很威，美軍去委內瑞拉可以這樣如入無人之境，他們的司法官那麼強，但是對於他做的很多事情，很多國家都是驚嘆號！","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:00.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:12.823000+08:00","text":"川普總統說各國民主同盟應該強化自己的國防，應該增加自己的預算，來保護自己的國家、維持區域的安定，你覺得這個有他的道理吧！沒錯。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:12.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:28.656000+08:00","text":"他提出了川普帳戶，感覺上也好像有他的道理，我說是他的道理；但是很特別的，臺灣的在野黨只對於川普帳戶情有獨鍾，對於要求增強臺灣的國防、增加自己防衛的預算，好像不太買單。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:28.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:32.099000+08:00","text":"不過我們還是一樣，還是要肯定一下，川普的做法，你了解吧！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:32.099000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:33.099000+08:00","text":"是，我了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:32.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:42.218000+08:00","text":"他是說在他任期內的每個新生兒，美國政府給1,000美金，存在一個帳戶裡面，後面靠誰？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:42.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:48.325000+08:00","text":"後面靠他的父母，川普總統有沒有每年都繼續給這個新生兒，1歲也給、2歲也給、3歲也給……沒有。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:48.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:50.668000+08:00","text":"沒有，他只給第一筆1,000塊，給你開辦一個帳號……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:50.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:50.668000+08:00","text":"開戶金。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:50.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:28:54.192000+08:00","text":"你覺得從所得分配來講，這個是對比較窮的人有利還是對有錢人有利？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:28:59.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:01.119000+08:00","text":"報告委員，他這個當然是對有錢人。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:02.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:02.861000+08:00","text":"不是，我是說如果發1,000塊給每1個人。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:03.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:03.721000+08:00","text":"這樣當然是普發……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:04.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:07.605000+08:00","text":"對比較沒錢的家庭，他本來存10塊都有困難，你現在給他1,000塊，他很高興，對有錢的家庭，父母1年給他1萬塊可能都沒問題。","quality":0.638},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:07.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:29.599000+08:00","text":"所以川普總統這1,000塊，對弱勢家庭，他連存錢都有困難，現在至少他有這個1,000塊打底，但是後面父母有辦法每年給他存嗎？","quality":0.592},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:29.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:36.261000+08:00","text":"這不知道，對有錢家庭來說，即使川普總統沒給他1,000塊，他的父母也是可以每年都放1萬塊美金，對不對？對。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:36.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:50.027000+08:00","text":"這1,000塊相對1萬塊來說，未來18年後，人家有18萬，你才1,000塊，所以川普這個政策看起來是對普通的美國人家庭（尤其沒有儲蓄的家庭）鼓勵儲蓄。對。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:52.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:29:54.911000+08:00","text":"你知道現在在野黨的版本是什麼嗎？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:29:56.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:06.121000+08:00","text":"藍白的未來帳戶是連給12年，我看了它的第六條，適用對象只要出生或未滿12歲，是不是每年給啊？","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:07.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:10.540000+08:00","text":"他們的版本是說每年還要加1萬進去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:10.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:13.903000+08:00","text":"每年還要再加1萬喔，有沒有要求他們的父母要加？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:15.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:16.166000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:16.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:19.029000+08:00","text":"所以說白吃的午餐最香嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:20.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:23.934000+08:00","text":"政府花錢就好了，要是我是弱勢家庭，當然我也歡迎啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:24.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:29.179000+08:00","text":"但是有一個問題，你們有沒有算過，你們算算看，這樣差不多總共要花多少？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:29.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:31.040000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們算一算，如果這樣，第一年可能就要一千多億，總共的方案是4,030億。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:31.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:32.562000+08:00","text":"第一年就要一千多億，總共12年要花四千多億。4,000億。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:32.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:30:56.900000+08:00","text":"12年4,000億，看起來跟在野黨堅持的反年改增加的國家負債一樣很多，好像又是一筆反年改倒退的負擔。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:30:59.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:12.484000+08:00","text":"我們都知道這個錢是要用國家的錢，有人說這個會不會排擠到現在的預算，我也很懷疑，未來12年國家總共要支付四千多億，跟我們的反年金改革未來十年要付3,600億一樣很多，哇！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:14.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:17.125000+08:00","text":"這筆錢很大，有人覺得中華民國國庫很有錢，繼續花。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:19.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:20.157000+08:00","text":"那民眾怎麼看呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:22.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:35.774000+08:00","text":"根據這個投票的結果，多數的民眾、六成五是反對；有部分民眾是保留，他說金額要小，不能亂花錢；還有人是有條件贊成，只限照顧弱勢，請問你對於這兩點支不支持？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:36.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:39.699000+08:00","text":"就是金額要小，不要亂花錢；有條件贊成，限於弱勢家庭。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:41.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:42.679000+08:00","text":"反對的部分我們不講啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:42.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:57.042000+08:00","text":"有的人反對政府亂花錢、資源有限、恐增加財政負擔；有人認為政策好聽，實際效果有限；有人認為對於沒有小孩或小孩已長大的家庭不公平，這些我們就不看了，對於有人說金額要適度、要照顧弱勢家庭，你支持嗎？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:57.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:07.164000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個其實也是卓院長在元旦做的一個政策說明，其中有一個很重要就是要擴大目前的政策，但是要弱勢優先。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:07.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:24.870000+08:00","text":"弱勢優先，好，那往下看，所以我們覺得在野黨在幫助有錢人的世代財富傳承，你看看，根據臺灣未來帳戶特別條例草案的第十二條跟第十三條，它的開戶是開戶人或他的法定代理人、最近親屬要存。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:25.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:31.753000+08:00","text":"其實富裕家庭的人本來就會存，如果是弱勢家庭的可能沒有辦法存啦！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:32.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:51.417000+08:00","text":"所以如果弱勢家庭的都只是靠政府存，它的複利效果有限，有錢家庭是利上加利，等於是政府助他很大的一臂之力，這樣子在我們國家的社會公平正義來講，這會不會是一種所得的逆分配啊？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:52.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:54.479000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這可能複製現有的階級，還有家庭……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:55.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:56.921000+08:00","text":"複製現有的階級差異啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:56.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:57.761000+08:00","text":"因為等於是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:59.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:13.808000+08:00","text":"等於是窮人家今日的麵包成為富二代的未來金幣，這第一年的一千多億，在未來11年還要加上三千多億，這些都是用當年度政府的預算、納稅人繳的稅嘛！沒錯。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:16.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:32.712000+08:00","text":"我知道目前有56%的人要繳薪資所得稅，其他44%的人所得未達這個程度，現在這些經濟能力未達繳稅額度的，是不是就是我們衛福部要去關注的對象？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:32.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:33.712000+08:00","text":"是的，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:33.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:43.637000+08:00","text":"要把大家繳來的錢，有能力繳稅的56%的人繳了稅，讓我們政府來照顧這沒有能力繳稅的44%，這是衛福部的事情。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:43.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:46.238000+08:00","text":"沒錯，所以我們石部長說資源要用在刀口上。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:46.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:00.881000+08:00","text":"是，但是如果我們現在為了這個未來帳戶，12年拿了4,000億，等於是第一年1,000億，之後每年要拿300億出來，預算要編在哪裡？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:00.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:03.502000+08:00","text":"編在衛福部名下，衛福部有辦法長出每年多300億嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:06.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:14.707000+08:00","text":"還是說我們的錢還是從納稅人的錢來，所以納稅人繳來的錢，本來叫衛福部要照顧弱勢的，現在在幫誰的忙？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:14.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:19.970000+08:00","text":"幫那些富家庭的二代放他18歲以後的明日金幣啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:20.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:21.230000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:21.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:29.234000+08:00","text":"我先問一下，因為我是在財政委員會，今天是開聯席會議，我們都知道保險業者最喜歡做什麼業務？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:30.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:32.647000+08:00","text":"就是高資產客戶。對。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:32.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:47.260000+08:00","text":"用保單來做財富傳承，因為保險有受益人，保險人繳那麼高額的保費，當被保險人亡故的時候，受益人拿到的保險給付要不要課稅？","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:49.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:50.579000+08:00","text":"不用課稅啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:52.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:01.144000+08:00","text":"現在像這樣的一個版本，有錢家庭的人放到這個帳戶的錢在未來他小孩用的時候要不要課稅？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:01.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:01.484000+08:00","text":"這個不知道啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:01.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:07.106000+08:00","text":"宋署長，還有一點點時間，你趕快講一下，這樣對於富家庭來講到底有沒有節稅的效果？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:07.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:11.908000+08:00","text":"我要是買保單傳承財富，我可以免於被課稅，那這個呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:13.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:26.157000+08:00","text":"這個衛福部給貧困家庭的麵包、牛奶，這個錢拿來給藍白版的富有家庭，他們父母除了你每年存的錢之外，再存10倍下去，存在帳戶的錢未來可以不用繳稅嗎？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:26.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:36.445000+08:00","text":"如果他已經存到小孩的帳戶，就變成小孩的錢，所以未來小孩提領本金的部分沒有稅的問題，當然產生的孳息是有稅的問題。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:36.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:47.133000+08:00","text":"目前如果我們在場的有錢家庭要把財富傳承下去，財政部一年給多少的贈與或者是幫小孩子存錢的利息的租稅優惠？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:49.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:54.610000+08:00","text":"如果是贈與的話，現在的額度每年是244萬。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:54.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:00.312000+08:00","text":"在我兒子未成年之前，我每年要想辦法挪244萬給他，我想都有困難。是。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:01.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:01.653000+08:00","text":"這244萬是不用稅啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"宋署長秀玲","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:02.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:03.073000+08:00","text":"是，不用課贈與稅。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:05.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:20.567000+08:00","text":"部長，請你上臺，終究你要來做個結尾，我請了次長、請了署長，請問一下，川普的帳戶給其他國家一個參考，有沒有其他國家曾經做過類似的事情？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:20.567000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:22.089000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:22.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:25.112000+08:00","text":"據了解的話，英國更早也做過類似的。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:25.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:29.656000+08:00","text":"英國更早有做過類似的，那英國有繼續做嗎？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:30.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:33.460000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有辦法在財務上永續。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:35.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:00.007000+08:00","text":"所以我們歸結，我們對於仿照川普帳戶這樣的一個抄作業，到臺灣之後變成是每年都要給，父母也不見得要給，然後造成的是一個所得的逆分配，除了造成國家的財政負擔，還會排擠到衛福部照顧其他弱勢家庭，你們現在有類似這樣的政策在照顧弱勢家庭嗎？有。","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:00.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:02.009000+08:00","text":"有多少人受益？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:03.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:06.491000+08:00","text":"受益目標應該是6萬人左右。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:06.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:07.132000+08:00","text":"那目前有多少？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:07.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:09.773000+08:00","text":"目前是近4萬，三萬九千多人。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:10.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:17.157000+08:00","text":"很好，所以如果我們要照顧這些弱勢家庭的孩子，目標6萬人，衛福部一年要放多少錢進去？","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:19.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:23.677000+08:00","text":"目前開戶的最高我們一年對撥是一萬五。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:24.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:25.659000+08:00","text":"所以目前的預算投入大概多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:26.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:26.860000+08:00","text":"幾億啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:28.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:28.782000+08:00","text":"大概是6億。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:29.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:31.924000+08:00","text":"已經投6億了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:32.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:34.646000+08:00","text":"對，一年大概要編6億，但是目前在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:34.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:43.514000+08:00","text":"我們國家給需要照顧的人6億，跟給所有有錢家庭的小孩，每個人加起來全部1,000億，你認為會不會有排擠效果？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:43.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:47.136000+08:00","text":"當然在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:47.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:20.307000+08:00","text":"對於這個事情我覺得我的意見不能代表全體的意見，我想我們來自不同的家庭、不同的社會階層，有夢最美，但是現實是很骨感的，想像很豐滿，這件事情到底要怎麼樣才能齊全，我們贊成國家要來支持人民的下一代，讓下一代出生之後未來有保障，如果有開公聽會，您覺得你會推薦哪些團體或希望我們找哪些團體來參與並提供意見，請你回去想一下，好不好？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:20.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:26.889000+08:00","text":"一個星期內給我一個名單，未來我們如果要辦公聽會的話，我們希望邀請各種不同的團體來討論這一題，好不好？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:26.889000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:27.889000+08:00","text":"好，我們再提供給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:27.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:28.210000+08:00","text":"好，一個星期，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:28.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:28.210000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:29.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:29.190000+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾佳濱委員發言。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:29.690000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:32.832857+08:00","text":"接下來請陳昭姿委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}