{"error":false,"id":["167051"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":167051,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/167051","日期":"2026-01-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-36-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-12T11:31:27+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-12T11:40:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:08","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ab52049cf0a1ce0acba77c21473b140e6ea9f55fbd6b8757fca8e6801c49bdde25638440f1b511c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:31:27 - 11:40:35","會議時間":"2026-01-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處人事長、內政部、教育部、行政院主計總處針對「立法院通過之警、消、公、教退休金改革法案之具體執行措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、繼續併案審查\n（ㄧ）委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員吳宗憲等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百零四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法第九十三條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案。\n五、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員林倩綺等21人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零八條條文修正草案」案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":4.26659375,"end":4.31721875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":8.04659375,"end":13.446593750000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":13.649093750000002,"end":15.20159375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":16.78784375,"end":17.24346875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":17.59784375,"end":18.00284375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":18.39096875,"end":30.11909375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":29.71409375,"end":30.06846875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":30.473468750000002,"end":31.772843750000003,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":31.215968750000002,"end":32.127218750000004,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":32.430968750000005,"end":41.492843750000006,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":34.05096875,"end":35.02971875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":41.492843750000006,"end":42.50534375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":42.674093750000004,"end":56.30909375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":56.52846875,"end":56.798468750000005,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":57.55784375,"end":61.557218750000004,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":62.41784375,"end":67.42971875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":67.75034375,"end":80.94659375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":79.39409375000001,"end":80.13659375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":80.44034375000001,"end":86.16096875000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":85.14846875,"end":90.98721875000001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":90.93659375,"end":116.68784375000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":117.27846875,"end":132.97221875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":133.30971875,"end":134.23784375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":136.73534375,"end":138.08534375000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":139.41846875000002,"end":140.44784375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":141.57846875,"end":145.93221875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":145.96596875,"end":145.99971875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":146.32034375,"end":154.16721875000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":154.26846875,"end":154.60596875000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":154.87596875,"end":156.47909375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":154.92659375000002,"end":156.61409375000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":156.61409375000002,"end":157.91346875000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":158.36909375000002,"end":163.14471875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":163.44846875000002,"end":169.28721875000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":169.67534375000002,"end":174.75471875000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":173.60721875000002,"end":176.08784375000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":176.08784375000002,"end":176.12159375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":176.12159375000002,"end":178.73721875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":177.18471875,"end":190.90409375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKE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早安 先請教一下秘書長我們現在考試院已經向大法官申請釋憲了嗎有關於公教人員停侃年紀的部分 是什麼時候申請 上禮拜四上個星期四對不對 就申請釋憲那請問一下您知道行政院也已經就這件事情這個議題申請釋憲了嗎 知道"},{"start":42.999,"end":66.831,"text":"所以這應該是創下一個記錄兩院同時因為一個法案當然兩個法案公務人員跟公教人員同時兩院雙管齊下去申請釋憲不覺得是對於我們退休公教人員的一個很強大壓力的追殺嗎"},{"start":68.456,"end":90.844,"text":"絕對沒有這個問題因為畢竟這樣的修法使得退府基金會提前四年用慶這個對後面的公教人員來說這個是很大的風險所以考量到基金永續的角度所以行政院去申請市縣還不夠然後考試院也要加碼因為法律主管機關不一樣因為教育部是行政院主管公務人員是考試院主管"},{"start":91.404,"end":113.401,"text":"這個已經是創下我們大概憲政史上兩個院級一起去實現那剛才院也問了很多因為你們現在是一個所謂技術性說要半年的時間做重新審定那我想請問一下考試院如果在這半年之內"},{"start":117.364,"end":133.848,"text":"大法官沒有做出任何的釋憲那到時候就要上路那上路之後呢上路之後是不是應該要回溯回溯到我們法律裡面規定的114年1月份開始對不起 112年是不是要回溯"},{"start":141.578,"end":156.284,"text":"因為法律的寫法並沒有讓這個法案提前生效它是從去年的12月28日生效所以12月28號以前它會依照舊法的規定發放所以你們要繼續賴皮囉沒有 這個沒有賴皮的問題"},{"start":158.445,"end":181.86,"text":"委員你看我們退伏法最後一條其實過去的修法都有法例說某些修正的條文他可能是指定後面的日期某一天生效也有指定前面在法律通過公佈之前生效的條文我們在法律上有回溯我們法律上有回溯但是這一次修法沒有這樣寫他沒有去指定生效日"},{"start":182.6,"end":202.426,"text":"所以他就會變成是總統公佈後三天生效生效之前你必須用舊法去執行生效之後用新法所以你們要繼續再做賴皮這沒有賴皮另外在時間點上因為你說這個是涉及18萬的公教人員所以要用半年的時間18萬公務人員"},{"start":204.306,"end":220.905,"text":"公務人員但是我想請問一下因為當年在2018年7月1號開始實施這個軍公教停侃年金當時的這個軍人的部分他的三讀通過的時間是2018年的6月20號三讀通過"},{"start":224.449,"end":237.357,"text":"但是當時擔任行政院長的賴清德院長他當時就說7月1號同步上路同步上路也就是在軍人的部分事實上是2018年的6月20才三讀通過可是他也在當年的7月1號與公教同步的施行"},{"start":249.013,"end":270.201,"text":"所以我覺得其實要不要施行是在為政者的一念之間我承認因為當時公教的部分是在前一年完成三讀我知道在前一年完成三讀然後他在隔一年的7月1號開始上路但是軍人的部分因為當時軍人他的爭議性也很大"},{"start":271.261,"end":291.687,"text":"所以他當時軍人的部分是在當年的6月20號三讀通過所以我要講的是其實什麼時候正式的上路是在為政者的一念之間呢而並不在於說你們今天以一個所謂的重新審定其實看起來因為你們去提出視線了你們去提出視線只不過是想要用時間來換取空間"},{"start":300.649,"end":325.039,"text":"這是兩個獨立的事件威恩就像您講的公教人員在2017年8月的時候法案公佈2018年7月1號上路中間這10個月的時間我們全序部的同仁是大動員然後假日加班沒日沒夜的在做那個重新審定的工作這個如果執行面可以彈指之間一念之間就讓它實現的話那公務同仁都不用存在了"},{"start":326.139,"end":346.73,"text":"現在我請問 因為你們說大概需要半年時間因為你剛才在回答其他委員的時候也說只要在按照我們的法律的程序如果大法官有一種可能他沒有提出就是說這是不違憲 但這個可能性比較低因為現在大法官完全都是聽從賴總統的"},{"start":348.951,"end":371.528,"text":"那也有可能說他沒有排反正他在這個半年之間他都沒有做出違憲的一個判定的時候那請問一下按照這個時間可不可以在今年的7月1號正式上路呢如果審定工作都完成了那各機關就是依照這個審定去執行你們可以去定一個目標啊不是嗎所以我們講說大概預估就是六個月吧"},{"start":375.217,"end":397.581,"text":"對啊六個月啊我六個月我說你七月一號上路不是也剛剛好嗎好我希望你們能夠你們能夠說到做到雖然我認為是時間換取時間那個空間時間換取空間對不起時間暫停一下我現在再請我們內政部今天內政部是警政署人事室主任"},{"start":407.435,"end":412.177,"text":"這個部分其實是我認為是劉士芳部長的責任但是我要特別提一下就是警察人員的人事條例因為我們已經是占讀通過但是你們也是拒不執行拒不執行之外你們甚至在警察人員的定義裡面把移民署排除在外把移民署排除在外"},{"start":433.467,"end":438.71,"text":"但是這很沒有道理因為當年林右昌當時他做這個所謂的危險加急的時候他做危險加急的時候他把這個移民署還有空情他認為這個也有他的危險所以把他納入了這個比照警察也調高15%"},{"start":454.139,"end":456.46,"text":"可是這一次警察人員的人事條例三讀之後第一個當然你們拒不執行拒不編這個法定預算但是你們又把警政署的人員把他移除了我認為這非常不合理因為警政人員過去他也是從警察他所移出的"},{"start":474.571,"end":503.209,"text":"另外還有一個就是在你們的這個照護方案就是對於警消的這個照護方案醫療照護方案在所有跟這個警消相關的人事單位裡面你們又獨獨排除了移民署的人事也就是他們這個警消的一個醫護照顧你們又把移民署給排除了"},{"start":504.108,"end":529.017,"text":"因為移民署它事實上也有司法警察的角色跟它的功能所以這部分我覺得我要特別為移民署的人員來做來幫他們做陳情來幫他們來爭取所以我希望今天在我們警消海巡還有這些空情移民署的人員他們過去都源自於警察希望不要有這種兩套標準"},{"start":531.238,"end":545.766,"text":"不要讓他們好像變成是在你們整個的系統裡面你們作為次等公民我這樣因為你們是幕僚人員我希望你們能夠帶回去未來也能夠幫他們來說話爭取一下好不好以上謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:35.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:40.760000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，先請考試院秘書長以及銓敘部部長。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:41.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:41.963000+08:00","text":"請秘書長還有部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:41.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:45.623000+08:00","text":"委員早。早安。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:45.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:53.948000+08:00","text":"先請教一下秘書長，考試院現在已經向大法官聲請釋憲了嗎？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:53.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:57.551000+08:00","text":"有關公教人員停砍年金的部分。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:57.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:58.331000+08:00","text":"什麼時候聲請的？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:58.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:31:58.832000+08:00","text":"上禮拜四。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:59.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:01.834000+08:00","text":"上個星期四，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:01.834000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:02.834000+08:00","text":"1月8號，是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:01.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:03.015000+08:00","text":"就聲請釋憲了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:03.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:07.037000+08:00","text":"那請問一下，行政院也已經就這件事情、這個議題聲請釋憲了嗎？知道。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:09.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:16.802000+08:00","text":"所以這應該是創下了一個紀錄，兩院同時因為一個法案……","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:17.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:19.564000+08:00","text":"兩個法案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:20.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:20.904000+08:00","text":"對，兩個法案，因為是公務人員跟……","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:22.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:24.606000+08:00","text":"教育人員。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:24.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:33.831000+08:00","text":"兩院同時雙管齊下去聲請釋憲，不覺得是對我們退休公教人員強大壓力的追殺嗎？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:35.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:47.300000+08:00","text":"絕對沒有這個問題，因為這樣的修法會使得退撫基金會提前4年用罄，這個對後面的公教人員來說是個很大的風險，所以考量到基金永續……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:47.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:51.762000+08:00","text":"所以行政院去聲請釋憲還不夠，考試院……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:52.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:57.824000+08:00","text":"因為法律主管機關不一樣，教育人員是行政院主管的，公務人員是考試院主管的。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:58.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:05.470000+08:00","text":"好，這個大概已經在憲政史上創下兩個院級一起去釋憲的紀錄了。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:07.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:14.737000+08:00","text":"剛才也問了很多，因為你們現在是以技術性的方式，說要半年的時間重新審定。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:15.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:38.767000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下考試院，如果在這半年之內大法官沒有作出任何釋憲，到時候就要上路，上路之後是不是應該要回溯到法律裡面規定的114年1月開始？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:39.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:40.828000+08:00","text":"對不起，是112年，是不是要回溯？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:48.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:00.503000+08:00","text":"因為法律的寫法並沒有讓這個法案提前生效，它是從去年12月28日生效的，所以12月28號以前是依照舊法的規定發放……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:00.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:02.704000+08:00","text":"所以你們要繼續賴皮囉！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:02.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:03.284000+08:00","text":"這個沒有賴皮的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:05.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:20.635000+08:00","text":"委員，你看退撫法最後一條，其實過去的修法都有法例，某些修正的條文可能是指定後面日期的某一天生效，也有指定前面，也就是在法律公布之前生效的條文，都有這個法例。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:20.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:22.616000+08:00","text":"我們在法律上有回溯啊！對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:23.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:25.117000+08:00","text":"我們法律上有回溯，但是你們……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:25.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:37.622000+08:00","text":"這次的修法沒有這樣寫，沒去指定生效日嘛，所以就變成是總統公布後3天生效，至於生效之前就必須用舊法去執行，生效之後才是用新法。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:37.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:39.663000+08:00","text":"所以你們要繼續再賴皮啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:39.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:40.683000+08:00","text":"這沒有賴皮，這個是立法的問題。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:41.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:49.305000+08:00","text":"另外，在時間點上，因為你們說這涉及到18萬個公教人員，所以要用半年的時間……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:49.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:52.127000+08:00","text":"是18萬公務人員。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:52.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:20.555000+08:00","text":"但是我想請問一下，因為在2018年7月1日開始實施砍軍公教的年金，當時軍人部分三讀通過的時間是2018年6月20日，但是當時擔任行政院長的賴清德就說7月1號同步上路。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:21.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:24.337000+08:00","text":"也就是在軍人部分，事實上是2018年6月20日才三讀通過的，可是也在當年7月1日與公教同步施行啊！","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:36.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:42.735000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得要不要施行，其實是在為政者的一念之間。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:42.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:53.359000+08:00","text":"我承認因為當時公教的部分是在前一年完成三讀的，然後在隔一年的7月1號開始上路。對。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:53.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:02.902000+08:00","text":"但是軍人的部分，因為當時軍人的爭議性也很大，所以軍人的部分是在當年的6月20日三讀通過的。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:03.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:17.266000+08:00","text":"我要講的是，其實什麼時候正式上路，是在為政者的一念之間，而不在你們今天所謂重新審定的理由。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:17.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:17.866000+08:00","text":"其實看起來，因為你們去提出釋憲了嘛！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:17.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:18.687000+08:00","text":"你們提出釋憲只不過是想用時間來換取空間。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:27.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:45.496000+08:00","text":"這是兩個獨立的事件，委員，就像您講的，公教人員在2017年8月的時候法案公布，2018年7月1日上路，中間這10個月的時間，我們銓敘部的同仁是大動員、假日加班、沒日沒夜地在做那個重新審定的工作。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:46.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:52.019000+08:00","text":"如果執行面可以彈指之間、一念之間就讓它實現的話，那公務同仁都不用存在了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:53.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:13.710000+08:00","text":"好，那現在我請問，你們說大概需要半年的時間，而你剛才在回答其他委員的時候，也說只要按照我們法律的程序，如果有一種可能是大法官沒有提出，就是說這不違憲，當然這個可能性比較低，因為現在大法官完全都是聽從賴總統的。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:16.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:30.682000+08:00","text":"也有可能是他沒有排，反正在這半年之間他都沒有作出違憲判定的時候，請問按照這個時間，可不可以在今年7月1日正式上路呢？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:31.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:35.846000+08:00","text":"如果審定工作都完成了，各機關就是依照這個審定去執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:36.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:37.967000+08:00","text":"你們可以去定一個目標，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:37.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:42.217000+08:00","text":"所以我們講，大概預估就是6個月吧！對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:42.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:42.877000+08:00","text":"6個月啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:43.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:50.359000+08:00","text":"如果用6個月算的話，你7月1號上路不是也剛剛好嗎？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:50.359000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:51.359000+08:00","text":"我們大概就是預定六個月左右完成，行政機關就是根據這個方式在進行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:50.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:58.420000+08:00","text":"我希望你們能夠說到做到，雖然我認為你們是用時間換取空間。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:58.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:59.420000+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:59.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:00.420000+08:00","text":"委員，我們在審查條例……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:58.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:04.561000+08:00","text":"對不起，時間暫停一下，我現在再請內政部，今天內政部是派警政署人事室主任。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳處長慧嬪","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:04.561000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:14.435000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:14.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:17.256000+08:00","text":"這個部分其實我認為是劉世芳部長的責任，但是我要特別提一下，警察人員的人事條例已經三讀通過，但是你們也是拒不執行。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:17.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:17.416000+08:00","text":"除了拒不執行之外。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:17.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:45.710000+08:00","text":"你們甚至在警察人員的定義裡面把移民署排除在外，但是這很沒有道理，因為當年林右昌在做危險加給的時候，認為移民署還有空勤人員也有其危險，所以比照警察把他納入，也調高15%。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:01.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:03.440000+08:00","text":"可是這次警察人員的人事條例三讀之後，第一個，除了你們拒不執行、拒不編列法定預算之外，你們又把警政署的人員移除了，我認為這樣非常不合理，因為警政人員過去也是從警察所移出的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:21.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:50.189000+08:00","text":"另外還有一個，就是在你們對警消的醫療照護方案裡面，在所有跟警消相關的人事單位裡，又獨獨排除了移民署的人事，也就是對於警消的醫護照顧，你們又把移民署給排除了。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:51.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:05.833000+08:00","text":"但是移民署事實上也有司法警察的角色及功能，所以我要特別幫移民署的人員陳情、爭取。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:08.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:23.381000+08:00","text":"今天警消、海巡、空勤、移民署的人員過去都源自於警察，希望不要有兩套標準、不要讓他們在你們整個系統裡面變成好像次等公民。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:23.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:32.465000+08:00","text":"我知道你們是幕僚人員，我希望你們能夠把這個意見帶回去，未來也能夠幫他們說話、爭取一下，好不好？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:32.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:32.766000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:33.266000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:40.408857+08:00","text":"因為我們剛剛宣告中間要休息5分鐘，不好意思，請莊委員體諒。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:40.708857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:42.423143+08:00","text":"現在休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:42.723143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:43.866000+08:00","text":"休息（11時40分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:44.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:45.880286+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時45分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:46.180286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:47.894571+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:48.194571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:54.194571+08:00","text":"接下來是鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:54.494571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:56.208857+08:00","text":"請鄭天財委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:56.508857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:02.794571+08:00","text":"跟鄭委員提醒，非本委員會的委員發言時間4分鐘，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}