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以及提案委員一樣我們都認為國家安全的確保以及國家主權的鞏固其實是很重要的"},{"start":221.491,"end":238.442,"text":"那我們提出的法治意見裡面為什麼對女參選人這邊會有說明其實是為了讓法案更加的完善尤其是女參選人該怎麼定義法務部的意見因為我目前的可找到的法治上有三種定義可是三種定義都長得不太一樣"},{"start":239.122,"end":264.355,"text":"那也因為如果從文藝的射程上你參選人會細緻於參選人的主觀我到底想選或不想選最後有沒有一個客觀行為去框定他所以等下像我們一般會用到你參選人以我們參選的經驗就是你可能要去監察院登記有沒有你參選人帳戶不然其他也不叫你參選人嘛所以是不是他登記下去那個算他是你參選人他沒有登記前"},{"start":266.367,"end":279.448,"text":"委員講的是就是政治審判的其中一種定義因為在選八法47條之三的立法理由其實有提到另外一種定義因為這個條文有擬參選人他講的是選舉公告之日起依依政治審判規定報竟監察院"},{"start":281.946,"end":299.927,"text":"報警監察院許可設立政治限定專務之人這個是 這個是這個政治憲法的定義對啊 其實這個它也有定義所以這個當然我們在討論的時候就進入委員會討論的時候我們要用什麼定義這可以討論但是最重要就是不能沒有 沒有界限的定義"},{"start":301.22,"end":325.436,"text":"我們是贊成要訂就把它明訂好對 要明訂 對 這一塊那再來就是滲透呢 怎麼樣叫滲透有什麼明確的定義 怎麼樣叫滲透所以今天到大陸旅遊 算不算滲透吃了一餐飯 算不算滲透這一塊三位都表達一下好了委員你有特定指的是哪一條的構成要件嗎"},{"start":327.01,"end":347.99,"text":"我不好針對我們特別的委員那你們看了你們應該知道滲透沒有很明確的定義啊滲透兩個字因為我們講的明確性原則會套用在兩個地方一個是行政法的明確性原則一個是刑法的明確性原則強度是不一樣的但是滲透都沒有明確指出那你最後到底怎麼樣你可以算他是有被滲透"},{"start":349.235,"end":367.166,"text":"沒有 沒有明確 再來再來因為時間的關係對 應該要再明確嘛所以我希望另外兩個部會的次長跟副主委你們要聽 要了解本席所講的跟法務部的意見那再來還有就是參與"},{"start":369.928,"end":384.658,"text":"我们在这个反渗透法里面出现了参与两个字好今天假设我们设定有某个候选人真的有明确的证据明确的真的有被渗透的事实那你用了一个参与两个字"},{"start":385.118,"end":405.547,"text":"所以在他的競選服務處在他的辦公室幫他打掃的算不算參與打掃的志工幫他端茶水幫他做一些事情的志工幫他做文宣整理的那這些都算參與嗎所以這個太模糊了非常模糊這一塊這個部分"},{"start":409.614,"end":424.692,"text":"我想這樣好了請副主委回答一下副主委你那個參與跟滲透我想委員剛剛講的這個狀況應該不至於啦譬如說我們講參與黑道組織好了如果你是在賭場裡面幫他們做清潔打掃的工作"},{"start":425.757,"end":444.527,"text":"那在检方来讲不会把你当做黑道组织的参与者所以你这个参与没有明确定义所以参与的定义一定是你有共犯的犯意的联络如果说我只是说去某一位候选人那边去打扫那个是不可能的"},{"start":444.727,"end":473.286,"text":"所以你今天講的很清楚就是你的參與那所以我們在法條中當然我們還沒進入主條嘛所以在法條中這個都應該要定義的很清楚才可以是但是但是目前的法條沒有嘛對但是法條永遠不可能把窮盡所有的狀況對但是我們總是要定義清楚嘛包含我們這個法務部也講嘛有些明確性法律明確性跟罪行相當這一塊還是要確認好"},{"start":473.772,"end":495.238,"text":"那再來的話統戰啦來請教一下什麼叫統戰如何定義還有灰色地帶行為那這個副主委可以講一下什麼叫統戰要如何定義那今天是你這個執法單位或者是行政單位你認定是統戰就是統戰這樣很可怕"},{"start":496.058,"end":502.603,"text":"如果是這樣的話那起訴率跟定罪率就不會那麼低了沒有 所以這個"},{"start":504.853,"end":524.455,"text":"對啦起訴率不高啦底下是誰在一直講話徐委員你剛講到譬如說去大陸吃飯這個事情現在辦的主要都是我現在就是講你現在在法條裡你統戰你一定要明確定出來統戰還有什麼灰色地帶行為來你講看看什麼叫統戰什麼叫統戰"},{"start":527.167,"end":539.793,"text":"統戰就是利用各種方式去影響和拉攏台灣這邊的勢力這樣喔 來來來 那接著我們請參事貴姓謝參事剛剛我們副主委講的這個這算明確嗎"},{"start":547.25,"end":556.812,"text":"他剛剛講的那幾句話因為委員所槌尋的其實是在草案目前的第二條有一個灰色地帶行為人裡面有提到統戰活動的部分"},{"start":557.332,"end":581.196,"text":"那因為現在沒有實定法的定義啦所以這東西就變成說當然是有明確定義是最好比較好操作也比較明確但如果沒有明確定義的話可能就要從這個法規的意旨裡面再去從實務發展出來它的確定的外延範圍因為這畢竟他搭附的後面草案是有相關的刑責的規定的那在明確原則上面會稍微嚴格一點"},{"start":581.966,"end":603.465,"text":"那不過統戰行為這邊還是要一方面要參考主管機關相關的說明跟解釋對嘛 沒有定義嘛 灰色地帶呢 灰色地帶呢你也講不出來 所以這很明顯啦這部法律真的 我們覺得要再精準不好意思主席 我最後 你們請回座我最後 中選會很重要 對你也很重要來 我們請中選會好不好 來"},{"start":611.629,"end":623.718,"text":"蔡處長現在我們2026已經進入了升委進階元年你知道什麼是升委吧現在AI的升委很可怕如果今天你看我們王朝偉"},{"start":624.879,"end":645.885,"text":"他未來他在嘉義很強但是如果他的對手在選前幾天突然因為我們立法委員像王委員他在立法院質詢他那個聲音太多了你只要到內政委員會你就可以收集他的聲音然後AI就用他的聲音模仿出來"},{"start":646.625,"end":673.172,"text":"他跟大家說假設他說我承認什麼什麼什麼會影響選舉的讓大家本來要投他的最後不投他或者說身體為一樣或者是怎麼樣我退出選舉這種情況有人做了用AI做了這個假的模仿了候選人的聲音甚至講了一些對選戰具有非常非常影響力的"},{"start":674.392,"end":703.976,"text":"我请问你们有准备吗你们有在选战过程中因为因为像这些身为的东西他在网络上传播只要几秒钟在Line Facebook TikTok或YouTube甚至IG各方面那我请问你们现在在各大平台中选会你有没有建立选举期间的绿色通道你可以用最快速的你有没有一个SOP你最快速的针对这些非常不实的你们可以马上去去澄清有没有办法"},{"start":704.668,"end":731.368,"text":"報告委員依據公職人員選舉罷免法的一個規定你參選人候選人如果是在選舉公告到投票日前一日為止知道有人利用這個網際網路這些媒體來看播他的身為影音那他可以付費向警察機關來申請鑑識那如果警察機關申請鑑識的結果是具有深度偽造影音身為的"},{"start":732.888,"end":746.775,"text":"這個情形的時候他可以向這些看播這些影音的這些媒體啊來這個請求停止看播或是限制瀏覽移除下架等等那如果是意圖使候選人當選或不當選的這種情形"},{"start":749.676,"end":763.641,"text":"公職選辦法104條就有5年以下那如果是用身為影音我不是在問這個耶我想王委員聽得懂啊選前之夜啊那個一傳下去我還什麼請警還取警察機關還什麼"},{"start":764.901,"end":791.903,"text":"那整個都要翻盤了你不馬上出來有一個綠色通道澄清我告訴你隔天那個選舉就很大問題你看我們召委點頭了我要的不是你這個答案你大概沒聽懂啊但是我請你要帶回去因為今天我們這個主委副主委沒有來所以你因為我也不好占用大家太多時間這個是非常非常嚴重的問題非常非常嚴重"},{"start":793.018,"end":811.684,"text":"那我們中選會如果沒有辦法的話進入AI時代我們這個選舉真的會很亂而且這一些在網路上這種伪造身為伪造的然後這樣在這樣傳播在關鍵時候就絕對出問題趙偉你認同啦 認同"},{"start":817.15,"end":836.476,"text":"他要回答包委因為這個如果涉及擬參選人候選人的這個沒有擬參選人我告訴你擬參選人沒有那麼激烈一定是選舉選舉前三天甚至前一天就是候選人對候選人也是包括因為是不是這個散佈的這些影音是不是真實"},{"start":837.376,"end":851.781,"text":"候選人應該是最清楚的後選人如果馬上提出來的時候你們的SOP有多快我們要知道是這個還有你有沒有辦法馬上官方的澄清我剛剛一直講選舉期間你的綠色通道"},{"start":853.142,"end":872.798,"text":"對 現行的機制就是有沒有 你回答我有沒有現行選務機關是就針對選務機關的錯假訊息有一個綠色通告所以你的意思是警察的職權那如果是候選人 涉及到候選人的不實的這些謠言或是不實的 散佈謠言或是不實的事項是要由候選人向警察機關來申請見識"},{"start":877.352,"end":905.437,"text":"那他這個廣遍媒體受到這些所以不是中選會的職權那所以你的意思是我要問警察機關你有沒有綠色通道可以來公告主持這個選舉的這種狀況剛剛提到就是104條如果說有這個機制就是如果是利用身為影音來意圖使人當選或不當選來散佈謠言傳播不實之事的這個是有刑責的"},{"start":906.541,"end":911.742,"text":"至於說什麼是身為營運事由我插話一下他現在委員會來問的是發生他提議之後你們有什麼作為然後能不能遏止是水馬鑽進去找審判單位還是你們有權利來去做歐北人說的有辦法趕快去下架"},{"start":932.926,"end":944.889,"text":"現在這個問題是這樣對啊 甚至你要官方你有這個公權力你可以讓大家知道 欸 這個是像你剛才說的好選人最重要嘛這個是圍罩的 這是真正的價值嘛但是好選人知道的時候要求助他們中選會的時候中選會沒有一個機制出來欸 沒有SOP啊還有那個速度很重要"},{"start":961.232,"end":974.323,"text":"我覺得不管帶一桶都一樣要有好的人才 不可以受到這種的應用他現在 你問的時候是說如果發生這個事情你有多久的時間 可以去寫下來不管你是同步帶一個單位是要公平的選舉"},{"start":988.115,"end":1011.562,"text":"不要讓人家後輩來心肝壞的企業用AI來人家無聊來人家惡惡賊賣這樣不好現在他說的意思是這樣沒有啦 你們現在還沒有啦要加油啦 是不是我想應該是這個答案 好不好加油啦我現在也沒答案啦今天沒答案不表示說"},{"start":1012.956,"end":1014.519,"text":"下個會期你們業務報告的時候這個一定會是很重要的重點"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:31:51.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:00.022000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，本席有請陸委會梁副主委、內政部吳次長和法務部謝參事共三位，謝謝。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:00.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:00.042000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳次長堂安","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:00.042000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:01.042000+08:00","text":"委員好。好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:00.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:44.251000+08:00","text":"今天我們在這裡審查反滲透法的修正草案，我想兩岸局勢緊張是不爭的事實，中共對臺灣的影響無孔不入我們也都很清楚，但是我們跟對岸的差別就是，我們是民主法治國家，這是跟對岸最大的不同，所以我們所有的法令應該要堅持法治，請問三位認同嗎？認同。","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:44.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:32:45.331000+08:00","text":"認同嘛！對！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:32:45.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:04.715000+08:00","text":"對於今天審查的這個法案，我看了各部會的報告，特別是法務部提出很多關於法律明確性還有罪刑相當的疑慮，我認為這不是推託，而是非常負責任的表現，我們非常肯定。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:06.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:22.103000+08:00","text":"我們立法院的職責就是要把法制工程做好、建設好，而不能修出一部定義模糊，可能會被濫用，甚至最後還被憲法法庭宣告違憲的法律！","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:22.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:39.235000+08:00","text":"所以我今天的質詢要從法治國原則出發，對反滲透法，我們從來沒有反對，而且我們也覺得有其必要，但是這部法律不能定義模糊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:40.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:33:53.881000+08:00","text":"接下來，我覺得這麼重要的法案，行政院沒有版本好像也不對，我們希望行政院有版本。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:33:55.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:09.432000+08:00","text":"很多委員提出來的，特別是針對擬參選人的部分，人也沒有定義清楚，我請問，假設一個小學生，老師問他未來的志願是什麼，他說要選總統。","quality":0.446},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:10.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:16.294000+08:00","text":"你都不定義，沒有時間、沒有人的定義，如果他說自己想選總統，那麼他就是總統擬參選人嗎？","quality":0.378},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:17.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:32.800000+08:00","text":"還有，很多委員的助理可能想選議員，甚至未來想接委員的職務，就開始做了很多確實是擬參選人想要做的事情，那他是不是就是擬參選人？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:34.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:35.148000+08:00","text":"人沒有定義清楚！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:35.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:37.150000+08:00","text":"再來是什麼叫做滲透？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:37.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:39.892000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣叫做被對岸滲透？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:41.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:34:49.780000+08:00","text":"如果他有機會去觀光旅遊，然後有一天他來參選，他是不是就是被滲透？","quality":0.517},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:34:50.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:03.579000+08:00","text":"所以像這個部分，我想先請教法務部謝參事，對於本席所說的，你認同嗎？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:03.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:11.143000+08:00","text":"因為你們在報告裡面就講了法律明確性和罪刑相當，所以對於這個擬參選人和滲透，你們要怎麼定義？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:14.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:15.266000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員垂詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:15.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:32.596000+08:00","text":"首先，我們的立場其實跟委員以及提案委員一樣，我們認為國家安全的確保以及國家主權的鞏固其實是很重要的，在我們提出的法制意見裡面會對擬參選人的部分有說明，其實是為了讓法案更加完善，尤其是擬參選人的定義……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:33.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:34.798000+08:00","text":"擬參選人該怎麼定義？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:34.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:36.158000+08:00","text":"法務部的意見是什麼？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:37.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:50.426000+08:00","text":"我們目前在法制上可以找到的有三種定義，這三種定義都不太一樣，也因為如果從文義的射程上，擬參選人會繫之於參選人的主觀，對於他到底想選或不想選，最後有沒有一個客觀行為去框定……","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:51.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:35:51.387000+08:00","text":"所以嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:35:52.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:01.893000+08:00","text":"我們一般會用到「擬參選人」，以我們參選的經驗就是，你可能要去監察院登記擬參選人帳戶，不然其實他也不叫「擬參選人」嘛！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:02.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:07.335000+08:00","text":"所以是不是他登記下去才算是擬參選人，沒有登記前，他也……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:09.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:12.412000+08:00","text":"委員講的是政治獻金法的定義，這是其中一種。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:13.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:27.029000+08:00","text":"在選罷法第五十一條之三的立法理由其實也有提到另外一種定義，因為這個條文也有擬參選人，它講的是選舉公告之日起，已依政治獻金法規定，報經監察院許可，設立政治獻金專戶之人。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:27.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:30.493000+08:00","text":"這個是政治獻金法的定義……對啊！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:30.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:42.927000+08:00","text":"其實這個它也有定義，所以我們在委員會討論的時候要用什麼定義，這是可以討論的，但最重要的，不能是沒有界線的定義。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:44.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:46.082000+08:00","text":"我們是贊成要定就把它明定。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:47.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:49.224000+08:00","text":"對，這一塊要明定。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:49.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:51.365000+08:00","text":"再來就是滲透，怎麼樣叫滲透？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:51.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:53.406000+08:00","text":"有什麼明確的定義？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:53.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:54.087000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣叫滲透？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:56.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:36:58.349000+08:00","text":"到大陸旅遊算不算滲透？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:36:58.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:00.651000+08:00","text":"吃了一餐飯算不算滲透？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:01.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:03.212000+08:00","text":"針對這一塊，請三位都表達一下好了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:05.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:08.436000+08:00","text":"委員有特定指哪一條的構成要件嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:10.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:11.952000+08:00","text":"我不好針對我們特別的委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:12.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:15.475000+08:00","text":"你們看了，應該知道「滲透」沒有很明確的定義啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:15.475000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:16.897000+08:00","text":"因為其實還是要回歸……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:16.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:17.477000+08:00","text":"針對「滲透」兩個字！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:18.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:25.265000+08:00","text":"我們講的明確性原則會套用在兩個地方，一個是行政罰的明確性原則，一個是刑罰的明確性原則，兩者的強度是不一樣的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:25.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:30.970000+08:00","text":"但是「滲透」都沒有明確定義，那麼最後到底怎麼樣可以算他是有被滲透？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:32.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:33.476000+08:00","text":"沒有明確？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:33.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:33.776000+08:00","text":"好，再來……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:33.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:36.878000+08:00","text":"這就需要再明確。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:36.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:37.718000+08:00","text":"對，應該要再明確嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:38.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:37:49.166000+08:00","text":"我希望另外兩個部會的次長和副主委都要瞭解本席所講的跟法務部的意見。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:37:49.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:14.441000+08:00","text":"再來就是「參與」，在這部反滲透法裡面出現了「參與」兩個字，假設我們設定有某個候選人真的有明確的證據、真的有被滲透的事實，但你用了「參與」兩個字，所以在他的競選服務處、在他的辦公室幫忙打掃的人算不算參與？","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:14.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:23.845000+08:00","text":"打掃的志工，幫忙端茶水、做文宣、整理東西的人都算參與嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:23.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:26.867000+08:00","text":"所以這太模糊了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:27.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:28.027000+08:00","text":"非常模糊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:28.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:34.777000+08:00","text":"這個部分請副主委回答一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:35.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:37.600000+08:00","text":"副主委，「參與」和「滲透」是否明確？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:37.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:40.744000+08:00","text":"我想委員剛剛講的狀況應該不至於啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:41.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:52.799000+08:00","text":"譬如說我們講參與黑道組織好了，如果是在賭場裡面幫他們做清潔打掃的工作，在檢方來講，不會把他當做黑道組織的參與者……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:54.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:38:55.881000+08:00","text":"所以這個「參與」沒有明確定義，你是設定……","quality":0.312},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:38:56.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:01.484000+08:00","text":"所以「參與」的定義一定是有共犯的犯意的聯絡，如果……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:01.484000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:02.484000+08:00","text":"那要定義清楚！","quality":0},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:02.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:07.507000+08:00","text":"如果只是去某一位候選人那邊打掃，那是不可能的！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:07.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:09.048000+08:00","text":"你今天對「參與」講得很清楚。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:12.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:21.076000+08:00","text":"當然，我們今天還沒有進入逐條討論，所以在法條中，這個都應該要定義得很清楚才可以，但是目前的法條沒有嘛！","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:21.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:25.239000+08:00","text":"但是法條永遠不可能窮盡所有的狀況。對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:25.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:27.940000+08:00","text":"但我們總是要定義清楚嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:27.940000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:28.940000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:28.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:36.266000+08:00","text":"包含法務部也講了，在法律明確性和罪刑相當這一塊還是要確認。是。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:37.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:42.854000+08:00","text":"再來是統戰，請教一下什麼叫「統戰」？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:42.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:43.714000+08:00","text":"如何定義？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:43.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:47.615000+08:00","text":"還有「灰色地帶行為」，副主委可以講一下嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:48.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:50.076000+08:00","text":"什麼叫「統戰」？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:50.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:51.276000+08:00","text":"如何定義？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:51.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:57.558000+08:00","text":"今天是執法單位或行政單位認定是統戰就是統戰嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:57.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:39:58.218000+08:00","text":"這樣很可怕耶！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:39:59.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:03.501000+08:00","text":"不可能，如果是這樣的話，起訴率跟定罪率就不會那麼低了。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:05.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:05.603000+08:00","text":"沒有，所以這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:07.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:08.854000+08:00","text":"對啦，起訴率不高啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:12.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:17.784000+08:00","text":"徐委員，你剛剛講到譬如說去大陸吃飯這個事情，現在辦的主要都是……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:17.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:27.455000+08:00","text":"沒有，我就是講現在在法條裡，對於統戰你一定要明確定出來，還有什麼灰色地帶行為，你講看看，什麼叫統戰？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:30.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:37.050000+08:00","text":"統戰就是利用各種方式去影響和拉攏臺灣這邊的勢力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:39.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:40:52.816000+08:00","text":"來、來、來，接著我們請謝參事，剛剛副主委講的那幾句話，這算明確嗎？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:40:53.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:24.196000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員垂詢，委員所垂詢的其實是在目前草案第二條中有一個灰色地帶行為人，裡面有提到統戰活動的部分，因為現在沒有實定法的定義，所以這東西就變成說……當然有明確定義是最好，比較好操作，也比較明確，但如果沒有明確定義的話，可能就要從這個法規的意旨裡面再去從實務發展出它確定的外延範圍，畢竟它搭附的後面草案是有相關刑責規定的，所以在原則上面會稍微嚴格一點。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:25.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:30.651000+08:00","text":"不過統戰行為部分，一方面要參考主管機關相關的說明跟解釋……對嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:31.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:31.672000+08:00","text":"沒有定義嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝參事志明","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:31.672000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:33.313000+08:00","text":"第二個要……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:33.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:34.054000+08:00","text":"灰色地帶呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:34.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:39.899000+08:00","text":"你也講不出來，所以這很明顯，這部法律我們覺得真的要再精準。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:39.899000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:40.899000+08:00","text":"你們請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:40.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:46.184000+08:00","text":"不好意思，主席，我最後請中選會，這很重要，對你也很重要，我們請中選會，這對大家都重要，尤其是要選舉的人。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:46.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:41:46.184000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:41:54.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:42:00.874000+08:00","text":"蔡處長，2026年已經進入深偽進階元年，你知道什麼是深偽吧？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:42:01.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:42:10.920000+08:00","text":"現在AI的深偽很可怕，你看王召委，他在嘉義很強啊！","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:42:10.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:42:43.889000+08:00","text":"但是如果他的對手在選前幾天突然……因為我們立法委員，像王委員，他在立法院質詢，他那個聲音太多了，你只要到內政委員會，就可以蒐集到他的聲音，然後就用AI模仿出他的聲音，假設他說：我承認什麼、什麼、什麼，說了會影響選舉的言論，讓本來要投他的人最後不投他了，或者說身體微恙或是怎麼樣，所以我退出選舉。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:42:43.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:42:58.213000+08:00","text":"像這種情況，有人用AI做了假的、模仿候選人的聲音，甚至講了一些對選戰具有非常非常影響力的話，請問你們對此有準備嗎？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:42:58.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:43:10.723000+08:00","text":"你們有在選戰過程中，因為像這些深偽的東西，它在網路上傳播只要幾秒鐘，在LINE、Facebook、TikTok或YouTube，甚至IG等各方面。","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:43:12.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:43:17.428000+08:00","text":"請問中選會現在在各大平臺有沒有建立選舉期間的綠色通道？","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:43:17.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:43:26.956000+08:00","text":"你有沒有一個SOP，針對這些非常不實的，你們可以最快速的馬上去澄清，有沒有辦法？","quality":0.389},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:43:27.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:44:05.973000+08:00","text":"報告委員，依據公職人員選舉罷免法的規定，擬參選人、候選人如果是在選舉公告到投票日前一日為止，知道有人利用網際網路等媒體來刊播他的深偽影音，他可以付費向警察機關申請鑑識；如果向警察機關申請鑑識的結果是具有深度偽造影音即深偽的情形時，他可以請求刊播這些影音的媒體停止刊播，或是限制瀏覽、移除、下架等等。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:44:06.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:44:16.978000+08:00","text":"如果是意圖使候選人當選或不當選的情形，公職選罷法第一百零四條就有五年以下刑期，如果是用深偽影音……天啊！","quality":0.723},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:44:17.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:44:29.482000+08:00","text":"我不是在問這個，我想王委員聽得懂，選前之夜這個一傳下去，我還請警察機關、還什麼的，那整個都要翻盤了！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:44:29.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:44:36.328000+08:00","text":"你不馬上有一個綠色通道出來澄清，我告訴你，隔天選舉就會有很大的問題。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:44:36.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:13.583000+08:00","text":"你看我們召委點頭了，我要的不是你這個答案，你大概沒聽懂，但是我請你要把這個問題帶回去，因為今天主委、副主委沒有來，我也不好占用大家太多時間，但這個是非常非常嚴重的問題，中選會如果沒有辦法的話，現在進入AI時代，我們的選舉真的會很亂，而且這些在網路上偽造、深偽，然後再這樣傳播，在關鍵時候絕對會出問題。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:13.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:14.664000+08:00","text":"召委，你認同吧？認同。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:20.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:20.670000+08:00","text":"你要回答？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:21.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:24.711000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個如果涉及擬參選人、候選人是不是真實……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:25.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:28.633000+08:00","text":"沒有擬參選人，我告訴你，擬參選人沒有那麼激烈啦！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:29.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:34.394000+08:00","text":"一定是選舉前三天甚至前一天，就是候選人了。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:34.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:42.037000+08:00","text":"對，候選人也是包括在內，因為散布的這些影音是不是真實，候選人應該是最清楚的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:43.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:47.218000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，如果候選人馬上提出來的時候，你們的SOP有多快？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:47.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:49.099000+08:00","text":"我們要知道的是這個。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:49.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:51.900000+08:00","text":"還有，你有沒有辦法馬上提出官方的澄清？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:52.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:54.761000+08:00","text":"我剛剛一直在講選舉期間的綠色通道。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:56.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:57.043000+08:00","text":"對，現行的機制就是要……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:57.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:57.643000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:57.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:45:58.724000+08:00","text":"你回答我有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:45:59.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:04.589000+08:00","text":"現行選務機關是針對選務機關的錯假訊息有一個綠色通道。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:04.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:06.490000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是警察的職權？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:06.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:22.192000+08:00","text":"對，如果是涉及到候選人散布不實的謠言或是不實的事項，是要由候選人向警察機關來申請鑑識，所以廣電媒體受到這些……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:22.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:24.373000+08:00","text":"所以不是中選會的職權？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:25.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:35.495000+08:00","text":"你的意思是，我要問警察機關：你有沒有綠色通道可以來公告，主持選舉的這種狀況……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:35.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:48.417000+08:00","text":"剛剛提到第一百零四條有這個機制，如果是利用深偽影音意圖使人當選或不當選，來散布謠言、傳播不實之事，這個是有刑責的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"蔡處長金誥","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:49.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:50.861000+08:00","text":"至於什麼是深偽影音……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:50.861000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:51.861000+08:00","text":"你真的沒聽懂，好啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:51.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:52.242000+08:00","text":"我插話一下，現在委員問的是，發生之後你們有什麼作為？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:52.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:52.662000+08:00","text":"然後能不能遏止啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:46:52.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:46:54.722000+08:00","text":"是馬上去找承辦單位，還是你們有權力去做，有辦法趕快把亂講的影音下架？","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:15.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:17.226000+08:00","text":"現在的問題是這樣。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:17.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:22.127000+08:00","text":"對啊，甚至官方有這個公權力，你可以讓大家知道這個是偽造的……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:22.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:26.228000+08:00","text":"像你剛剛說的，候選人最清楚這個是真的還是假的，不過候選人知道後要求助於中選會的時候，中選會沒有一個機制出來啦！","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:26.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:27.869000+08:00","text":"對，沒有SOP，還有那個速度很重要。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:27.869000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:44.232000+08:00","text":"就是這樣才會吃力啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:44.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:48.176000+08:00","text":"我覺得不管哪一黨都一樣，不能讓好的人才受到這種影響。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:48.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:53.680000+08:00","text":"現在徐委員要問你的是，如果發生這種事情，你們有多久時間可以去下架？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:53.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:47:55.702000+08:00","text":"不管你們是通報哪一個單位。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:47:56.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:18.377000+08:00","text":"應該要公平的選舉，不要讓心腸不好的人亂來，去用AI來侮辱人家、來抹黑人家，這樣不好。對啊！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:18.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:22.378000+08:00","text":"現在他說的意思是這樣啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:22.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:24.279000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:24.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:26.419000+08:00","text":"你們現在還沒有，要加油啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:26.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:26.820000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:29.580000+08:00","text":"我想應該是這個答案，加油啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:29.580000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:30.580000+08:00","text":"加油啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:30.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:34.542000+08:00","text":"不然現在也沒答案，不過今天沒答案不表示下個會期也是這樣，下個會期要有答案！","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:35.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:37.519000+08:00","text":"下個會期你們業務報告的時候，這個一定會是很重要的重點，謝謝。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:38.019000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:42.590429+08:00","text":"時間漸漸逼近了，謝謝徐欣瑩委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-01-12T11:48:42.890429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T11:48:45.176143+08:00","text":"請葉元之委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}