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謝謝秘書長剛剛說明我要講的就是你們讀條文你要從第一項開始一直往後讀到第六項"},{"start":259.369,"end":279.427,"text":"你第一項裡面基本上本來就講的本法公佈施行前退休生效者的每月退休所得就是於本法公佈施行後不得超過一替代率上限計算的金額所以我們是修單37條的第6項而且在這個條文裡面本來就已經有了這個回溯的意思否則的話不會講說這個付表從113年之後不再適用"},{"start":283.53,"end":311.927,"text":"那麼同時也講所有的退休之前跟之後就在本法公布施行之前或之後的所有的退休人員他的所得替代率就是停留在112年的這個標準那我們在整個的當時修法的討論的過程當中是非常清楚的可是現在變成你全序部你自己做了曲解的這樣的一個法律的解釋我們不這個條文"},{"start":314.256,"end":340.709,"text":"給非常多的法學專家看大家不會解釋成像你們這個樣子的說這個已經把這個現在的退休公教人員已經扣掉的113年跟114年的這個退休金差額竟然可以政府自己扣在那裡不發還你們知道這叫什麼嗎這叫做公法上的不當得利呀你們扣這筆錢是沒有法律上的原因的"},{"start":341.611,"end":360.182,"text":"如果所有替代率都恢復到112年這個對基金損害財富損害比較大的部分我們都願意依法執行的話其實沒有必要去在小地方做這樣的處理但是事實上你的說法就是你為什麼要在這個地方去做歪曲法律的解釋所以這是本心非常感到"},{"start":361.523,"end":378.841,"text":"真的看到考试院跟全序部你们的态度我非常的痛心是很多的公教人员都认为说考试院跟全序部难道不应该是所有的公教人员的大家长吗就你们完全没有爱护公教的这样的一个心情然后呢动不动"},{"start":379.341,"end":393.03,"text":"都是在做這個違反整個法律立法者當時修法本意的一個解釋同時來你們接下來說現在的這個之後的新的審定函你們會什麼時候發"},{"start":395.114,"end":406.659,"text":"大概需要六個月的時間為什麼需要這麼長的時間現在的系統不是就已經在了嗎系統需要修正系統需要這麼長的時間嗎這明明我跟你講現在的新的發的審定函非常簡單就是未來所有的公交人員退休金的支領就是以112年的所得替代率為準你理論上你這個審定函113年以後的人沒有112年那個數字"},{"start":423.317,"end":438.696,"text":"113年没有122年的数字因为113年以后退休的人他不会有一个112年的数字不是就是以112年的为准所以如果说他现在也是未来不管任何时候退休的人都要使用的所以这个系统要重新去处理"},{"start":439.045,"end":444.711,"text":"你們本來就在112年就有個系統就有個參數所以我覺得你們現在是把事情複雜化他基本上就是簡單的修一個參數就可以了他不需要像你們這樣還要重新再開發個系統再製作個系統"},{"start":455.743,"end":463.708,"text":"我本心認為說你們現在就是故意在拖延時間我們不用故意拖延時間我們要讓公務同仁有合理的執行時間然後宣告我們這次的退休金提侃法案是違憲這個是兩個分開的事情"},{"start":473.885,"end":489.185,"text":"在我看來這就是一件事我們要讓現在的公務同仁有合理的執行時間而且我們也參考了107年年改的重新核算時間跟去年警察人士條例之後我們重新核算的時間這個半年推估是合理的是跟委員說明"},{"start":490.427,"end":519.259,"text":"好 那這半年裡面你們多扣的這些退休公教的退休金你們要連本帶利還給他們嗎他們的錢就不是錢你們退服基金你們認為說你們繼續撲的錢才是錢嗎如果後面審定出來之後該補的當然要補但是委員您剛剛講113 114年這個部分如果當時立法原意上有希望追溯到113年因為要生效的話在我們的原本的條文裡面"},{"start":520.299,"end":536.477,"text":"就已经规定的清清楚楚了现在本席不在这边跟你再讲这个事情为什么因为这是非常清楚在我们所有的法案当时修正讨论当中以及从我们的第37条38条从第一项读到最后一项"},{"start":537.455,"end":560.878,"text":"就是所有退休在本法公布施行前退休和之後退休的人所得替代率就是停在112年因此你之前給人家多扣的退休金本來就應該要發還好 那麼當然就是我本身知道你們現在跟行政院一樣就是提起釋憲之後反正能不動就不動所有的審定函然後都能夠拖拖半年"},{"start":562.7,"end":585.076,"text":"我們會透過其他的方式我們會要求如果說你們認為說你們這樣子的退休審定還半年才做出來是合理的話那我們來看看你們未來是不是這個考試院其他的預算的部分我們也讓你拖個半年啊你都不要有錢花啊這不是這說起來是很荒謬的一件事情明明就是個簡單的事可是你們今天要故意把它搞得很複雜然後政治化你們的心中還有軍公教嗎"},{"start":590.182,"end":601.34,"text":"重新審定真的需要時間委員施部長您還是大學教授然後來轉任藉調當政務官你不是不知道這些公教人員的心情"},{"start":602.591,"end":617.501,"text":"但是呢 本席認為說你在很多的這個議題特別是在退休金改革的議題處理上面你都沒有將心比心而且呢 處處是刻薄這些公教人員對不對 法律的解釋不是你詮訊部的解釋我們的立法已經清清楚楚了我想我們今天還可以硬拗拗成這個樣子讓本席真的是非常的感慨喔我不好是講說你們做的這樣行為非常的無恥"},{"start":632.711,"end":654.206,"text":"我們的生肖日就寫得清清楚楚的生肖日並沒有去追溯到前面去跟委員做這樣的報告我們沒有要拖半年委員如果妳了解行政事務可以去多問一下我們之前都是用這種標準的作業程序在處理"},{"start":654.906,"end":671.207,"text":"我也去问了但是这是一个非常非常复杂的一个程序基本上不需要这么久的时间好那接下来我要问的就是说你现在依照警察条例另外审议的推出所的替代率你们说已经完成了37790人的案件的审议是所有符合资格的都已经审议完成了吗"},{"start":671.647,"end":696.628,"text":"根据内政部给我们的解释符合的资格我们就进行审定那请问这次的有关于内政部移民署的相关人员有没有适用我想这是内政部的解释他并不适用那所以现在就是对于内政部移民署里面的相关人员他们基本上这个不在你们这次合法的推出审定函里面是吗是的根据内政部的解释好所以这个是属于内政部的问题那今天内政部"},{"start":698.53,"end":711.318,"text":"移民署沒有在 但是人事行政總署可以做解釋嗎當然如果移民署裡面有原來適用警察觀證他當然有 不是全部這有內政部來做解釋的好 有內政部的代表嗎"},{"start":712.874,"end":738.403,"text":"委員好那之前那個群聚部這邊有請我們的警政署針對移民署的部分哪些人可以適用這個警察人員的35條修正的內容那當時警政署有依照警察人員是條例回覆給群聚部就是最後在退休的時候是警察官身份的他就可以依照這個修正後35條來重新擬定他的這個所得替代率那以上報告那所以有多少人呢"},{"start":742.493,"end":743.842,"text":"我現在是講移民署的部分"},{"start":746.803,"end":770.74,"text":"我們可能要再跟移民署確認一下因為今天沒有請移民署好那之後麻煩請你們提供資料給本席因為這次在警察人員條例第35條裡面其實本來有提到有關於移民的這個相關的人員那所以就這個部分的話應該也要合理的應該是在適用警察人員的這個新的退休制度所得替代率提高的範圍裡面"},{"start":771.721,"end":797.54,"text":"好 然后接下来的话我想请教的是有关于全序部那么我们知道在去年十月的时候考试院通过了重大的改革全面调高直辖县市政府所属机关职等上限那么总计涵盖了有590个机关3500个职务可是呢事实上就是在这一波里面去年的那一波大调升里面似乎没有包含公立学校服务的广大的这个职员我们是以全界机关为主"},{"start":801.673,"end":805.356,"text":"行政機關為主所以有關於公立學校的相關公務員我想這個部分我們目前你們沒有打算要調生嗎一併檢討因為我們現在知道在大學裡面還有高中以下的學校裡面其實還有一些公務員如果有其他個案我想我願意多了解但是我們這次的調生是以特定的職務做調生並不是所有人都調整"},{"start":828.086,"end":831.889,"text":"好本期希望說你們能夠針對就是在學校服務的公務人員的職等要進行一個檢討調整畢竟就是現在在整個公立學校裡面的公務人員的職等是偏低而且長期以來都沒有調整所以呢可不可以就請你們一個月內給本期一個報告到目前為止在公立學校裡面的這個相關公務員他們的職等分配已經多少年沒有調整"},{"start":857.927,"end":865.238,"text":"那預計未來要怎麼樣進行改革 可以嗎可以提供給委員好 那麼最後一個部分這可能是跟人種有關那可以請兩位"},{"start":868.159,"end":888.688,"text":"这个部长跟秘书长可以先请回座那么我现在要讲的就是说本期在这个前两周去参访考试院的时候那时候其实书记官们大家有反应对于现在书记官的这个待遇还有他们的专业家籍偏低那么同时呢也针对就是有关于记录费的部分"},{"start":889.448,"end":915.388,"text":"那么始终没有办法就提高所以至于现在书记官还有相关的事务官他们离职率很高那么根据公务人员的加挤办法的规定看起来我本来以为是全序部考试院可能会是加挤的主管机关但是目前是属于人事总组这里负责公务人员各个不同职系的加挤对吧对"},{"start":916.485,"end":937.992,"text":"是 那所以你們就這個部分你們會預計要來調整嗎跟委員報告 這個不管是司法院法務部啦所以是有關於紀錄書紀官的這個他的專業佳績的部分其實都有持續跟我們人種處在做相關的討論有持續做專業討論 來 我們請王富敏"},{"start":941.499,"end":969.545,"text":"你知道你们这个司法人员的这个相关的记录书记官等等这些标准他们的专业家籍是从什么时候现在是4700元是对这是什么时候制定的这个法务部知道吗我这里的资料民国86年86年的时候制定的30年都没有动啊是可能要请副人事长"},{"start":971.269,"end":983.725,"text":"張副人事長 是本席去參訪了司法院那邊的法官 書記官他們的反應 修這個專業家籍也不是司法院有權利可以修對 他會報告行政院"},{"start":985.02,"end":1010.377,"text":"然後幕僚是我們人事總署在作業是 所以可以被請王副秘回去之後競訴像你們認為要調整的合理的專業佳節待遇然後報到人事總署跟委員報告就是過去都有這個就是非正式的一些討論那司法院這部分是還沒有正式的函文那如果這個有正式的函文我們希望能夠調升這個紀錄費"},{"start":1013.909,"end":1024.66,"text":"對 但是我們就是有一些意見的往返那如果這次事件再正式爆出來我們會行政院的相關的會審機關再來繼續做研議"},{"start":1029.649,"end":1041.974,"text":"總之我想這個是個嚴肅的議題我希望司法院能夠多幫基層的書記官還有法官助理等等去多爭取權益如果說該調的就要調現在副人事長這裡說因為你們沒有報"},{"start":1048.337,"end":1065.222,"text":"我不知道是不是這樣但是我希望人事總署也應該積極的去調整各個職系的專業家級看起來不是只有司法院是民國86年訂定這個標準到現在很多的職系的專業家級都沒有調升我覺得這是個嚴重的問題"},{"start":1067.623,"end":1086.15,"text":"希望你們能夠盡量做調整好嗎我們非常感謝委員利用這個機會幫我們爭取那只要人事總署他願意支持我們的話行政上我們一定會是那個那個毫無延誕的立刻衝過去申請的謝謝好OK那就這樣子謝謝那就麻煩就是人事長還有可以嗎"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:43:28.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:43:46.658000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，首先我想先請考試院劉秘書長，還有銓敘部的施部長、人事行政總處的張副人事長。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:43:48.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:43:48.841000+08:00","text":"委員早安。是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:43:55.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:18.664000+08:00","text":"剛剛羅委員也提到有關提高警消人員所得替代率的問題，到現在為止，都沒有看到部會有編列預算，當然在這邊首先要問一下，這次警消員人員所得替代率的預算，那個差額的預算到底應該是哪一個機關來編列，是銓敘部還是內政部？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:19.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:23.087000+08:00","text":"依照法律相關修法的明文規定是行政院。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:23.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:27.870000+08:00","text":"是行政院，所以就是內政部應該要編列預算而不是銓敘部？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:29.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:30.291000+08:00","text":"不是銓敘部。好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:30.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:36.033000+08:00","text":"但是據我了解，好像現在是不是兩個機關就這個部分有爭議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:36.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:40.215000+08:00","text":"我想因為法條上面，我記得寫的就是行政院要編列相關的預算。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:42.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:44:50.334000+08:00","text":"好，所以很清楚的，基本上就是內政部不照顧退休的警消，該編他不編。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:44:50.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:45:03.869000+08:00","text":"剛剛羅委員應該講的沒有錯，就這個部分來講，賴政府基本上就是不願意提高退休警消的所得替代率，所以到目前為止都沒有編列預算。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:45:04.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:45:31.514000+08:00","text":"接下來我想再就教銓敘部跟考試院，因為我們知道在去年12月27號，總統已經公布了這個退休金停砍法案，在這個停砍法案裡面，當然我們法條寫得非常清楚，就是退休所得替代率會回到112年的水準。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:45:32.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:46:06.293000+08:00","text":"就這個部分來說，最重要的目的就是希望在107年退休金年改的方案當中，能讓退休公教人員的權益止血停損，所以我們並不是恢復到107年，而是考慮到現在物價上漲等各方面的因素，所以我們將所得替代率恢復到112年的水準。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:46:08.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:46:31.139000+08:00","text":"這個法公布之後，事實上本席發現，銓敘部日前所發布的新聞稿竟然會認為說，在針對113年跟114年已經退休的公教人員他們已經被扣掉的退休金，為什麼不能夠發還給他們？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:46:31.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:46:52.015000+08:00","text":"對於已經溢扣的金額，已經溢扣的退休金的差額，這個部分難道不應該依法，依照我們公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條的規定，它基本上就已經回溯到112年了。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:46:54.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:46:58.662000+08:00","text":"請問考試院還有銓敘部，你們是怎麼樣依法解釋的？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:47:00.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:47:08.477000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這件事的關鍵點是在新修正的法律哪一天生效，因為總統是12月26號公布、28號生效。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:47:09.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:47:33.666000+08:00","text":"在修正的條文中並沒有追溯生效的條文，等於是在12月27號以前，我們銓敘部這邊，不只是銓敘部，就是我們整個退休金的發放就依照舊法，從生效後開始適用新法，所以現在的修正文字的效果會變成從新法生效起恢復到112年的所得替代率。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:47:33.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:47:36.188000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝秘書長剛剛的說明。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:47:36.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:48:04.407000+08:00","text":"我要講的就是，你們讀條文要從第一項開始一直往後讀到第六項，第一項裡面本來就講了，本法公布施行前退休生效者的每月退休所得，於本法公布施行後不得超過依替代率上限計算的金額，所以我們是修在第三十七條的第六項，而且在這個條文裡面本來就已經有回溯的意思，否則的話不會講說這個附表從113年之後不再適用。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:48:08.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:48:21.558000+08:00","text":"那麼同時也講所有的退休，之前跟之後，就是在本法公布施行之前或之後的，所有退休人員的所得替代率就是停留在112年的這個標準。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:48:23.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:48:36.627000+08:00","text":"我們在當時修法的整個討論過程是非常清楚的，可是現在變成銓敘部你自己做了曲解的一個法律解釋。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:48:36.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:00.066000+08:00","text":"我們這個條文給非常多的法學專家看，大家不會像你們這樣子的解釋成說，把現在退休公教人員已經扣掉的113年跟114年的退休金差額，竟然可以政府自己扣在那裡不發還，你們知道這叫什麼嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:00.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:01.807000+08:00","text":"這叫做公法上的不當得利啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:03.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:05.689000+08:00","text":"你們扣這筆錢是沒有法律上的原因的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:06.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:18.198000+08:00","text":"委員，如果所得替代率都已恢復到112年，這個對基金財務損害比較大的部分我們都願意依法執行的話，其實沒有必要去在小地方做這樣的處理，但是事實上就是法律上面它的……","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:18.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:25.162000+08:00","text":"對，如果按照秘書長的說法，就是你為什麼要在這個地方去做歪曲法律的解釋，所以這是本席非常感到……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:25.162000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:26.523000+08:00","text":"因為你法律上沒有講它提前生效。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:26.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:31.488000+08:00","text":"真的看到考試院跟銓敘部你們的態度，我非常的痛心。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:32.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:38.495000+08:00","text":"很多公教人員都認為，考試院跟銓敘部難道不應該是所有公教人員的大家長嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:39.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:42.439000+08:00","text":"結果你們完全沒有愛護公教這樣的心情……","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:42.439000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:43.439000+08:00","text":"我們要現在從……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:42.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:51.606000+08:00","text":"然後動不動都是在做違反整個法律立法者當時修法本意的解釋。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:49:51.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:49:58.030000+08:00","text":"同時，來，你們接下來說，之後新的審定函你們會什麼時候發？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:00.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:01.875000+08:00","text":"大概需要六個月的時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:01.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:02.355000+08:00","text":"為什麼需要這麼長的時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:02.355000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:03.355000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:02.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:05.936000+08:00","text":"現在的系統不是就已經在了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:05.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:06.617000+08:00","text":"系統需要修正……是啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:06.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:06.697000+08:00","text":"系統修正……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:06.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:07.697000+08:00","text":"那這個修正需要作業時間……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:06.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:07.337000+08:00","text":"需要這麼長的時間嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:07.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:07.377000+08:00","text":"這明明……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:07.377000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:08.377000+08:00","text":"然後還要發出審定函。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:07.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:11.239000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，現在要新發的審定函非常簡單，未來所有公教人員退休金的支領就是以112年的所得替代率為準，理論上你這個審定函……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:11.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:11.639000+08:00","text":"113年以後退休的人沒有112年的所得替代率那個數字。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:28.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:29.658000+08:00","text":"113年沒有112年的數字？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:29.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:33.543000+08:00","text":"因為113年以後退休的人，他不會有一個112年的數字啦。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:33.543000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:34.845000+08:00","text":"還有這個系統……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:34.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:38.229000+08:00","text":"不是，就是以112年的為準，所以如果說他現在……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:38.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:43.676000+08:00","text":"這個系統也是未來不管任何時候退休的人都要使用的，所以這個系統要重新去處理。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:43.676000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:44.676000+08:00","text":"那我們去年……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:44.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:45.847000+08:00","text":"你們本來在112年就有個系統、就有個參數……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:45.847000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:46.847000+08:00","text":"對，那個需要修改啊！所以……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:46.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:46.808000+08:00","text":"我覺得你們現在是把事情複雜化……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:46.808000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:50:47.808000+08:00","text":"我們去年處理警察人事條例也花了差不多五、六個月的時間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:50:47.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:05.366000+08:00","text":"它基本上就是簡單的修一個參數就可以了，它不需要像你們這樣，還要重新再開發一個系統、再製作一個系統，本席認為你們現在就是故意在拖延時間。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:05.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:06.727000+08:00","text":"我們不用故意拖延時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:06.727000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:07.727000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:07.727000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:08.727000+08:00","text":"你們就是等待啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:06.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:07.247000+08:00","text":"我們要讓公務同仁有合理的執行時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:07.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:08.508000+08:00","text":"就是等待大法官做解釋，然後宣告我們這次的退休金停砍改革法案是違憲嘛！","quality":0.531},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:08.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:08.688000+08:00","text":"這個是兩個分開的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:08.688000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:18.885000+08:00","text":"很清楚啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:18.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:20.187000+08:00","text":"在我看來，這就是一件事情，你們基本上就是以拖待變。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:20.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:34.165000+08:00","text":"我們要讓現在的公務同仁有合理的執行時間，而且我們也參考了107年年改的重新核算時間，跟去年警察人事條例之後我們重新核算的時間，這個半年推估是合理的，跟委員說明。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:35.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:37.268000+08:00","text":"好，這半年裡面你們多扣的……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:37.268000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:38.268000+08:00","text":"我們沒有多扣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:37.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:46.251000+08:00","text":"多扣的這些退休公教的退休金，你們要連本帶利還給他們嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:46.251000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:47.251000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:46.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:48.152000+08:00","text":"他們的錢就不是錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:48.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:51:50.873000+08:00","text":"你們退撫基金……你們認為你們銓敘部的錢才是錢嗎？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:51:50.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:52:03.658000+08:00","text":"照法律規定的部分，如果後面審定出來之後，該補的當然要補，但是委員您剛剛講113、114年這個部分，如果當時立法原意上有希望追溯到113年1月1號生效的話，就需要在文字裡面表達出來。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:52:03.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:52:10.785000+08:00","text":"在我們原本的條文裡面就已經規定得清清楚楚，現在本席不在這邊再跟你講這個事情，為什麼？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:52:11.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:52:45.858000+08:00","text":"因為這是非常清楚，在我們所有的法案當時修正的討論當中，從第三十七條、第三十八條的第一項讀到最後一項，就是所有退休……在本法公布施行前退休和之後退休的人的所得替代率就是停在112年，因此你之前給人家多扣的退休金，本來就應該要發還，當然本席知道，你們現在跟行政院一樣，就是提起釋憲之後，反正能不動就不動，所有的審定函都能夠拖半年。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:52:45.858000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:52:47.700000+08:00","text":"同仁做這個事很辛苦，沒有拖……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:52:47.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:00.449000+08:00","text":"我們會透過其他的方式，我們會要求，如果你們認為退休審定函半年才做出來是合理的話，那我們來看看，是不是未來考試院其他預算的部分，我們也讓你拖個半年，你都不要有錢花啊！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:01.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:10.076000+08:00","text":"這個說起來是很荒謬的一件事情，明明就是一件簡單的事情，可是你們今天故意把它搞得很複雜，然後政治化，你們的心中還有軍公教嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:10.076000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:15.182000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:15.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:17.826000+08:00","text":"重新審定真的需要時間，委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:17.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:39.639000+08:00","text":"施部長，您還是大學教授，然後轉任、借調當政務官，你不是不知道這些公教人員的心情，但是本席認為你在很多的議題，特別是在退休金改革這個議題的處理上，你都沒有將心比心，而且處處是刻薄這些公教人員……","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:39.639000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:40.639000+08:00","text":"我想委員的用語不用……","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:39.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:40.440000+08:00","text":"法律的解釋不是你銓敘部的解釋，我們的立法已經清清楚楚了！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:40.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:41.440000+08:00","text":"我想我們銓敘部有根據中央法規標準法的方式來做通案式的解釋……","quality":0.107},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:40.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:41.380000+08:00","text":"可是你們今天還可以硬拗，拗成這個樣子，讓本席真的是非常的感慨！","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:41.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:42.501000+08:00","text":"我不好意思講說你們這樣的行為非常的無恥……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:42.501000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:53:57.711000+08:00","text":"因為法律裡面沒有寫追溯，所以我們根據生效日以後的三天開始進行……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:53:57.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:00.553000+08:00","text":"我們的生效日就寫得清清楚楚的！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:00.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:05.937000+08:00","text":"本法從一條……生效日就是從本法施行……好，我現在不再講這個，接下來……","quality":0.037},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:05.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:09.159000+08:00","text":"生效日並沒有追溯到前面去，跟委員做這樣的報告。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:09.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:11.160000+08:00","text":"總之就是說你們要拖半年，這就是你們的態度、你們的立場！","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:11.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:19.186000+08:00","text":"我們沒有要拖半年，委員，如果你了解行政事務，可以去多問一下，我們之前都是用這種標準的作業程序在處理。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:19.186000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:21.047000+08:00","text":"我不是沒有在行政機關待過，我也去問了。","quality":0.235},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:21.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:22.970000+08:00","text":"這是一個非常非常複雜的程序。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:22.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:24.091000+08:00","text":"相關系統的開發，基本上不需要這麼久的時間。","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:25.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:36.106000+08:00","text":"接下來我要問的是，你現在依照警察條例另外審定的退休所得替代率，你們說已經完成3萬7,790人的案件的審定，是所有符合資格的都已經審定完成了嗎？","quality":0.661},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:36.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:41.651000+08:00","text":"根據內政部給我們的解釋，符合了資格，我們就進行審定。","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:42.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:45.655000+08:00","text":"請問這次有關於內政部移民署的相關人員有沒有適用？","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:45.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:47.536000+08:00","text":"我想這是內政部的解釋，他並不適用。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:49.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:57.205000+08:00","text":"所以現在就是對於內政部移民署裡面的相關人員，他們基本上不在你們這次核發的退休審定函裡面，是嗎？","quality":0.614},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:57.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:54:58.766000+08:00","text":"是的，根據內政部的解釋。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:54:59.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:07.732000+08:00","text":"好，所以這是屬於內政部的問題，今天內政部移民署沒有在場，但是人事行政總處可以做解釋嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:07.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:14.397000+08:00","text":"當然如果移民署裡面有用原來適用警察官的，他當然有，不是全部，這個是由內政部來做解釋。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:15.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:16.318000+08:00","text":"有內政部的代表嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長慧嬪","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:17.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:18.214000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長慧嬪","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:19.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:42.443000+08:00","text":"之前銓敘部有請我們的警政署針對移民署的部分回復，哪些人可以適用警察人員人事條例第三十五條修正的內容，當時警政署有依照警察人員人事條例回復給銓敘部，就是最後在退休的時候是警察官身分的，他就可以依照修正後的第三十五條重新擬定他的所得替代率，以上報告。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:42.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:43.383000+08:00","text":"所以有多少人呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:47.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:48.822000+08:00","text":"我現在是講移民署的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任淑貞","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:48.822000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:51.803000+08:00","text":"移民署的部分可能要請教移民署。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳處長慧嬪","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:51.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:55.106000+08:00","text":"我們可能要再跟移民署確認一下，因為今天沒有請移民署來。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:55.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:55:59.089000+08:00","text":"好，之後麻煩請你們提供資料給本席。好。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:55:59.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:15.720000+08:00","text":"因為這次在警察人員人事條例第三十五條裡面，其實本來有提到有關於移民的相關人員，所以就這個部分，應該也要合理的適用警察人員新的退休制度、所得替代率提高的範圍裡面。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:17.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:41.119000+08:00","text":"接下來我想請教的是有關於銓敘部，我們知道去年10月的時候考試院通過了重大的改革，全面調高直轄縣市政府所屬機關的職等上限，總計涵蓋590個機關、3,500個職務，可是事實上，在這一波裡面、去年的那一波大調升裡面，似乎沒有包含在公立學校服務的廣大職員。","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:42.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:42.520000+08:00","text":"我們是以行政機關為主。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:46.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:46.833000+08:00","text":"行政機關為主？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:46.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:47.334000+08:00","text":"所以有關於公立學校的相關公務員？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:47.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:47.754000+08:00","text":"我想這個部分目前……","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:47.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:47.994000+08:00","text":"這個部分你們沒有打算要調升嗎？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:47.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:48.014000+08:00","text":"一併檢討啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:48.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:48.895000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在知道，在大學裡面還有高中以下的學校裡面其實還有一些公務員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:56:48.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:56:50.336000+08:00","text":"如果有其他的個案，我想我願意多了解，但是我們這次的調升是以特定的職務做調升，並不是所有人都調整。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:57:13.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:57:15.928000+08:00","text":"好，本席希望你們能夠針對在學校服務的公務人員的職等進行一個檢討、調整，畢竟現在在整個公立學校裡面的公務人員的職等是偏低的，而且長期以來都沒有調整，所以可不可以請你們一個月內給本席一個報告？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:57:15.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:57:45.771000+08:00","text":"到目前為止，在公立學校裡面的相關公務員，他們的職等分配已經多少年沒有調整，預計未來要怎麼樣進行改革，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-01-12T09:57:45.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:57:47.093000+08:00","text":"我可以提供給委員。好。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:57:47.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:57:55.340000+08:00","text":"最後一個部分，這可能是跟人總有關，兩位部長跟秘書長請回座。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-01-12T09:57:55.340000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:57:56.421000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:57:56.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:58:21.714000+08:00","text":"我現在要講的是，本席在前兩週去參訪考試院，那時候其實書記官們有反映，對於現在書記官的待遇，還有他們的專業加給偏低，同時也針對有關於紀錄費的部分始終沒有辦法提高，以致於現在書記官還有相關事務官的離職率很高。","quality":0.495},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:58:22.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:58:40.208000+08:00","text":"根據公務人員的加給辦法的規定，本來我以為銓敘部、考試院可能會是加給的主管機關，但是目前是屬於人事總處這裡負責公務人員各個不同職系的加給，對吧？對。","quality":0.537},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:58:42.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:58:46.407000+08:00","text":"就這個部分，你們會預計要來調整嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-01-12T09:58:46.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:01.732000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，不管是司法院、法務部，有關於紀錄書記官的專業加給的部分，其實都有持續跟我們人事總處在做相關的討論。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:01.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:17.881000+08:00","text":"有持續討論，好，我們請王副秘，你知道你們司法人員的相關的紀錄、書記官等等這些標準，他們的專業加給是從什麼時候……現在是4,700元。是。","quality":0.582},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:18.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:19.562000+08:00","text":"這是什麼時候制定的？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王副秘書長梅英","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:20.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:21.162000+08:00","text":"這個法務部知道嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:22.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:26.763000+08:00","text":"根據我這裡的資料，民國86年……89年……86年……","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:27.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:32.384000+08:00","text":"86年的時候制定的，30年都沒有動。是。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:32.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:47.404000+08:00","text":"可能要請副人事長、張副人事長，本席去參訪了司法院，那邊的法官、書記官他們的反映，修這個專業加給也不是司法院有權力可以修。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:47.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:48.705000+08:00","text":"對，他會報到行政院。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:48.705000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:50.401000+08:00","text":"報到行政院？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:50.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T09:59:53.783000+08:00","text":"幕僚是我們人事總處在作業。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T09:59:53.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:00:01.348000+08:00","text":"是，所以可不可以請王副秘回去之後，儘速將你們認為要調整的、合理的專業加給的待遇報到人事總處，然後本席再來追這件事情。","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-01-12T10:00:01.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:00:14.917000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實過去都有非正式的一些討論，司法院這部分是還沒有正式的函文，如果有正式的函文……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T10:00:14.917000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T10:00:15.917000+08:00","text":"司法院過去有沒有曾經有函文過？","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T10:00:15.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:00:15.377000+08:00","text":"希望能夠調調升這個紀錄費？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張副人事長秋元","start":"2026-01-12T10:00:19.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:00:29.660000+08:00","text":"我們就是有一些意見的往返，如果這次司法院再正式報出來，我們會會行政院的相關會審機關再繼續做研議。好。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T10:00:34.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:00:46.194000+08:00","text":"總之，我想這是個嚴肅的議題，我希望司法院能夠多幫基層的書記官還有各法官助理等等爭取權益，該調的就要調。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T10:00:46.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:01:14.184000+08:00","text":"現在副人事長這裡說因為你們沒有報，我不知道是不是這樣，但是我希望人事總處也應該積極去調整各個職系的專業加給，看起來不是只有司法院，是民國86年訂定這個標準到現在，很多職系的專業加給都沒有調升，我覺得這是一個嚴重的問題，希望你們能夠儘量做調整，好嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王副秘書長梅英","start":"2026-01-12T10:01:14.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:01:27.189000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員利用這個機會幫我們爭取，只要人事總處願意支持我們，行政上我們一定會毫無延宕地立刻衝過去申請。謝謝。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-01-12T10:01:27.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-01-12T10:01:30.850000+08:00","text":"好，就這樣，謝謝，那就麻煩人事長了。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-01-12T10:01:31.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-01-12T10:01:34.492857+08:00","text":"接下來請王義川委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}