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是不是有請卓院長跟顧部長麻煩請 卓院長 國防部長備詢報告員好院長好 部長好"},{"start":36.479,"end":51.111,"text":"我今天的質詢就從軍購開始臺灣民眾黨其實我們1月到美國去拜訪了一些當地的智庫跟政府的官員回國之後我們就提出了臺灣民眾黨版本的軍購特別條例"},{"start":56.375,"end":77.341,"text":"可以看到這一頁投影片就是我們在我們草案的第五條裡面我們現在邏輯非常簡單就是官方有看到美國已經願意要出售的軍品包括他的項目跟他的數量我們就把它列在我們草案裡面"},{"start":78.257,"end":92.527,"text":"那基本上所以後來看到了包括前一陣子的這個發駕書跟這個最近今天好像看到又有那基本上大概都涵蓋在我們這個草案第五條的這個項目裡面"},{"start":94.088,"end":112.012,"text":"那我想這個過程也很順利目前看起來行政院版還有臺灣民眾版還有昨天臺灣民眾黨中國國民黨版也都赴為可以併案來討論那希望希望這個大家能夠義中求同不曉得院長怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":115.169,"end":130.151,"text":"國家基於這個國防最嚴謹的專業評估需求而且考量國家的財政能力跟年度的規劃經過長時間提出了1.25兆的這個特別條例跟往後的特別預算"},{"start":131.329,"end":149.604,"text":"這是一個整套的規內容包括總統所說的他必須要有台灣之盾還要用AI高科技形成一個擊殺鏈第三個是發展國內的軍工產業這個是整套的任何一個規割裂都會讓我們在執行過程上會產生一個現在不可預知的狀況同時我要說"},{"start":151.765,"end":170.445,"text":"軍事的採購是我們向外國做採購不是外國拿著一張單子來兜售我們沒有辦法讓他拿一個單子四處在外面兜售要各位看到了單子以後我們才要去就單子內容再做選擇這整套規劃我還是誠懇的期待以國防部所提出的這個規劃來作為我們最終討論的依據"},{"start":173.388,"end":196.426,"text":"是 所以我想台灣民眾黨這邊的基本上我們的邏輯就是這樣我剛剛說過啦只要能夠確定能夠買到的東西其實我們基本上台灣民眾黨都是支持的啦那可以看到這一頁啦就是這個上面有部長就因為這個發價書的事情嘛我們的期程上可能會有一些來不及的狀況所以院長跟部長應該有看到"},{"start":197.287,"end":206.923,"text":"今天早上我們已經送案到行政院來希望可以啦 如部長說的我們現在可以事前的授權那部長應該有看到這個新聞吧"},{"start":208.933,"end":231.292,"text":"跟委員報告有看到這個新聞我也要跟委員報告民眾黨在會黨的版本裡面的第四條是將這個已經經過美國智慧國會的這個項目把它列出來而且把這些項目列出來以後還把它列上金額那我要跟委員報告現在您提到這個發價書"},{"start":233.394,"end":249.369,"text":"如果將這個相關的這些已經智慧國會的金額啊寫在那個條例裡面這是將條例跟預算其實是混淆了因為我們現在接下來他先請做一個智慧國會的出戶報價之後我們現在還有發價書發價書之後呢發價書上面還會有金額"},{"start":253.553,"end":273.647,"text":"之後他還要進行一個溢價的程序相關的溢價程序才會有確認相關的金額那另外我們還有國內配合的項目我們譬如說要買海馬斯我們海馬斯不只是只有海馬斯我們還有海馬斯相關要容納這個海馬斯相關的系統的一個一個擔保這樣的一個設置譬如說像這樣所以"},{"start":277.329,"end":289.036,"text":"這個貴黨這樣子在這個第四條所列這樣的一個金額把它列入條例裡面我想這個並不是一個很適當的一個作為那從發價書這一個事情的事先授權就可以看得出來我們這整個"},{"start":291.599,"end":319.859,"text":"行政院版的這個是經過兩年的時間不斷的在做一個內部的研討又提出一個整體的規劃案出來所以你們不能夠只看這個智慧國會的這些項目然後呢把這個智慧國會的項目就把它列那其他還有很多的項目像剛剛院長提到了台灣之盾這不是只有相關的軍購的部分我們還有相關的AI的決策的系統要連結上還有我們國內委制的強攻"},{"start":320.419,"end":345.768,"text":"的這個系統都要放在這個特別預算它才整體的形成一個台灣支柱的規劃那如果說你現在只看得到說智慧國會的部分你要不要擺進來那其他的部分都略而不論的話那我們這個整體的這個整體的戰力的規劃整體的評估就完全完全是變成一個零零碎碎而沒有辦法形成一個整體的戰力可是您還是支持台灣民眾黨"},{"start":347.128,"end":363.882,"text":"提這個案子能夠解決這個所謂發架書先行的部分應該是支持我們做這個我想發架書要先行授權就是反映著我們提出了這個版之後條例一直沒有辦法互違那麼現在已經經過智慧國會之後美國都已經進入了"},{"start":365.683,"end":381.908,"text":"要提供給我們發價書要我們簽署了我們現在連條例 戶委然後預算都還沒有開始審議所以我們還希望說還希望說當然希望貴黨現在也很願意接受我之前的一個呼籲就是說"},{"start":382.788,"end":399.739,"text":"在預算貨物之前今天授權我們來進行這個趴價數的簽署就是未來有一些新的我們都願意啦加上這個我跟委員報告你現在講的是三項我在這裡再跟您講一下第四個趴價數已經來第四個趴價數已經來那您現在授權是要我"},{"start":404.982,"end":421.251,"text":"我是建議啦我們現在五個部分經過智慧國會你現在列的這個幾項有一些事實上並不是屬於這個我們要放入特別預算就是說國民黨版我看到了他有一些不把這個不是把應該放入特別預算把它放進來那現在屬於這個"},{"start":423.472,"end":448.899,"text":"貴黨提出來的那五個要放入特別預算的這個部分我是建議一體授權讓我們全部可以簽署發價書所以你也贊成我們這樣來做法嗎就是再把海馬仕像這個後來的發價書的部分對那我們現在還有一個反專甲的Artist 700的部分那個發價書還沒有拿到所以我想是不是如果說立院同意的話那就是五項的發價書全部"},{"start":449.999,"end":466.024,"text":"對當然那個部分還是要經過我們這個立院的一個程序啦我現在只是說本席的一個意見啦我們是希望協助啦能夠盡快的能夠取得我們的軍購的項目啦那我想現在這個國際情勢瞬息萬變啦所以這個大家可以看到"},{"start":468.023,"end":485.93,"text":"這個因為戰爭嘛所以接下來的事情也許跟我們的國防未必有直接關係而是可能跟我們的能源的政策可能會有一些關係啦大家可以看到這些投影片上面就是我們現在的燃氣的部分其實比例很高就是我們現在新的這個能源規劃上其實可能到50幾個%"},{"start":488.086,"end":507.589,"text":"然後基本上這個價格因為這個戰爭的波動其實價格會有很多的這個很明顯的上漲這個都會讓我們非常擔心會不會因為我們這個燃氣的這個上漲LNG的部分會不會造成我們這個電費的上漲然後可以看到現在這個"},{"start":508.61,"end":522.104,"text":"卡達的部分這個比例還蠻高的啦那其實我這幾天有聽到很多這個不管是民間啦或者是一些學復單位他們其實都對這個事情有點擔心啦我想這幾天部長也在做一些說明那"},{"start":524.727,"end":541.282,"text":"我想國外有很多媒體其實也提出了很多的警示跟我們說我們這個能源政策要非常非常小心而且現在看起來我們大概只有十一天左右大概不到十一天 十多天還沒有達到可能還不到兩週"},{"start":543.935,"end":570.534,"text":"所以這一次因為我們前幾天都在講關稅的部分這叫ART的部分這個是不是可以通過ART來協助解決這類的問題有請部長是 鮑委員我們長期的規劃就是這樣就是我們跟美國簽訂的MOU裡面還有ART裡面事實上有說明就是說會從卡達採購的天然氣的部分一部分慢慢移轉到從美國進口"},{"start":571.089,"end":576.15,"text":"那從現在開始到因為我們現在從美國進口大概是10%多一點"},{"start":577.302,"end":603.203,"text":"慢慢的增加到2029年會到25%所以會有效的中東的地區就會慢慢降下來這個禮拜二其實也針對關稅的部分大家做了一些討論不過目前看起來因為有一些變化所以基本上可能要等到美國的一些協商我們最後這個案可能才能夠確定我不知道跟美國確定這個事情會不會延緩到我們所謂燃氣的供應"},{"start":606.693,"end":624.303,"text":"沒有這個MOU的部分我們這個採購本來就是我們的政策我們跟哪一家公司買在哪裡買這個本來就是我們的政策我們本來就有做這樣的打算所以基本上大概都已經成型了就關燃氣的部分我們應該已經找到一些其他的替代"},{"start":625.123,"end":653.876,"text":"那當然我剛剛提到這個LNG氣體的部分燃氣的部分那當然是不是要考慮到其他的一些能源的替代就包含這個所謂的核電的部分那這個台灣民眾黨去年的時候發生我們辦了一個公投我想我那一次也大概喚醒了很多人對於這個能源規劃的一些重視那這一天大家很多媒體也在講這個事情就是說現在核酸好像在做一些評估"},{"start":654.676,"end":680.86,"text":"那不曉得現在核酸的進度如何因為我們那個自主的安全檢查已經開始那也跟那個原廠就是西屋公司MOU已經簽了所以很快的西屋公司就會派人來共同的把這個自主安全檢查裡面再仔細的看看要哪些是不是有老化需要做一些修正的部分那另外還有一個再運轉的計畫我們今年就是這個月的月底"},{"start":681.621,"end":697.167,"text":"就會送給這個海岸會就是有兩個部分就是要進去的嘛 要進去審查一個是專業委員長 一個是在運轉計畫這兩個已經開始同時進行那看起來好像因為最近提到大概都是核三的部分我想現在核二大概評估的狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":698.147,"end":714.901,"text":"核二也會同步進行只是核二因為他的燃料棒因為乾式儲存還在建置當中所以他的燃料棒還要是拿出來以後才有辦法去做自主安全檢查所以時間上會稍微往後面一點點"},{"start":716.622,"end":736.254,"text":"所以其實我也非常感慨因為去年幫著台灣民主黨去各地宣導這個東西現在看起來是,對我本席來說希望能源政策能夠多元這次戰爭的部分就可以看到一些我們處在地緣政治的部分其實這個部分非常非常重要"},{"start":737.535,"end":764.345,"text":"另外有關於戰爭的部分其實另外一件事就是我這幾天其實有接到我本身也有接到這方面的一些訊息我想院長這邊應該知道就是在地有非常多不管是那裡的僑民或者是過境旅遊的人他們在這幾天裡面其實承受到非常多的壓力我這邊就接到幾位有一位甚至後來買套機票"},{"start":766.946,"end":794.738,"text":"搭上飛機或是在邁古這個已經landing了他highlight了我就可以感覺到他那種不安一直到最後到泰國他可能才能夠relax所以基本上我想說這個事情是不是外交部可以跟我們講一下大概的一個狀況好像很多人大家可以看到在網路上也有很多好像我們跟其他的國家好像那個認知不大一樣或採取的策略不大一樣然後這個好像這個是最近才看到的一些指引"},{"start":795.938,"end":822.591,"text":"另外就是我們在一個群組裡面他們跟我們說他們要成立自救會我覺得這個對國人來說當然是一個滿大的打擊因為大家知道過去那些國家我們都覺得它是一個相對安全的地方甚至我們很多國人很喜歡去那邊不論是過境轉機或者是去那邊旅遊這次現在截至目前為止到底現在整個整體的策略大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":823.331,"end":838.281,"text":"我先跟委員說明一下我們都應該完全體會到在當地的國人或是旅客他們各種焦慮的心情我們完全完全體會而且要想辦法盡量紓解所以第一時間我們請外交部還有"},{"start":838.761,"end":864.253,"text":"交通部、觀光署要主動去找到在當地的旅行團、團客以及自由行的遊客另外在當地的僑民也請外交部能夠一一的主動用電話的方式或其他方式加以聯繫表示政府是關心大家的那麼旅行團無論是團客或是自由行的遊客我們希望他能夠第一時間能夠買得到機票回來停止他的旅行"},{"start":864.733,"end":892.375,"text":"第二能夠由陸路去到空域已經開放的國家再匯回來現在我們也期待如果當地的航空空域都開了我們也希望能夠跟當地能夠洽商政府也在考慮經由雙方的同意對方的同意我們採行包機方式把他們接回來但這個取決於對方第一個有沒有空域有沒有開第二個空域是否安全再來我們雙方的洽商是否能夠完成但是這個部分"},{"start":892.475,"end":912.32,"text":"我們還在努力當中我想非常多國人尤其旅外非常非常殷切期盼剛剛院長說的部長應該同意啦當然我們現在完全可以了解國人在那個地方旅行的不便帶來的不確定心我們也要求住館到場服務"},{"start":914.861,"end":941.345,"text":"那麼另外一個問題是說因為自由行或者過境的旅客比較難掌握那麼我們也大力的宣傳也請這個委員幫忙宣傳在人際之間就是能夠到外交部能夠來登錄登錄之後我們聯絡的到我們看到機票我們就會通知相關的東西我們會去跟航空公司去交涉機票的價格飛的班機等等"},{"start":941.735,"end":950.363,"text":"那另外一個是說像幾個沒有空域沒有開放的國家我們必須要安排他陸路來行動像您提到這東西事實上"},{"start":950.905,"end":970.044,"text":"我們包括像卡達在內那麼我們要確認陸路是安全的我們才可以因為好多的說法嘛可能就是讓他游陸路過去嘛曾經有這樣的講法嘛我們都有個別的說明像我們從這個卡達我們就已經在3月4號晚上有第一團10個人從"},{"start":972.116,"end":1000.13,"text":"陸路到達這個沙烏地阿拉伯的利亞德然後安排班機回來台灣所以我跟這個院長這邊說啦就是我跟做一個警示啦我本身也收到一些人跟我們求救啦那希望未來啦就是不管我們立法院啦或者是我想兩個部會剛剛交通部次長這邊我們可以一起來把這件事情做好我想提供國人最好的一個服務可能就是我們最大的一個時代經過外交部跟交通部公安署的努力這三天當中已經有八個團體"},{"start":1001.89,"end":1024.475,"text":"246人回到國內那其他還有6個團體的108人我們會持續的快速的依照他們的意願真的有些人他是願意還留在那邊我們不能強迫願意回來的我們一定想盡辦法透過空路透過陸路想辦法讓他回到國內來好 感謝那另外在這一次的這個ART裡面其實對我們這些勞動的學者其實是非常"},{"start":1026.421,"end":1042.691,"text":"這個開心啦齁 因為很多我們在這個21世紀貿易台美的貿易倡議裡面基本上已經在講的事情這次都有寫在裡面那這個因為我們長期在關注這個事情所以我們對這個事情也非常期待有更進一步的發展"},{"start":1044.493,"end":1058.553,"text":"像這個部分就是說的所謂集體勞動的部分在這一次裡面我想美方也希望我們有更好的集體勞動的一個展現可以消除很多我們結社的一些困難"},{"start":1059.654,"end":1074.928,"text":"這個當然我們過去也長期花了很多的精神很多的努力我想在國內當然事業單位我們有特性不過像我們前一陣子比較特殊的就是我們一些公部門適不適合組公會"},{"start":1075.869,"end":1090.512,"text":"像我們這個錦霄啦他們這個倡議了非常久啦那我們也希望藉由這次案是不是可以讓我們這個集體的部分 集體勞動的部分能夠得到更好的一個發展那是不是請部長可以跟我們再說明一下"},{"start":1093.176,"end":1119.096,"text":"因為王阿元其實是我們在勞動頂域深耕很久的而且很專業的學者所以我想王阿元其實應該也很清楚其實這次的ART的簽署裡面當然結社權的部分因為也是符合我們覺得對於勞工的權益然後是有幫助的所以我們也跟美方有產生這樣子的共識希望能夠往前來推進那這部分我們大概會有五年左右的這樣子的一個"},{"start":1119.957,"end":1147.47,"text":"法規的調適期因為台灣的中小企業的確比較多所以我們接下來往前走的時候我們會包括第一個事情是我們也會請這個一些專家學者一起來做一些研討那對於這個接下來的工會法或者是這個爭議的這樣的處理相關的法規那在這個法規修訂上面的一個可行性那也會包括各個相關的團體那不管是雇主團體不管是勞工團體我們來跟大家討論"},{"start":1149.011,"end":1176.436,"text":"把大家的意見再收整那來提出這樣的方案那我想其實這個方向我們都是都是非常非常支持的所以就像剛才王委員說的我們希望能夠在結社權的部分真的能夠再往前再走一步我想這也是很多台灣勞工跟我們勞團的陰界的期盼那因為就是我想這次他也提到很多人權的部分我想中美常常台美在談這個事情的時候常常都在講這些事情"},{"start":1177.156,"end":1196.965,"text":"那所以我們目前有這個這個講很久了那PR這個所謂的行動方案那我不曉得現在這個行動方案大概的狀況是如何那看起來2024有一版那現在會不會因為這個ART的簽署可以讓這些事情進來得更快一些些那尤其是像這個強迫勞動的部分"},{"start":1198.86,"end":1222.753,"text":"我們前一陣子我們臺灣的廠商也被他的產品被扣在美國的港口所以基本上這個事情我們是不是要我們倡議非常久就有關於禁止調查的部分是不是要全面來做經濟部還是說我們正在入法不曉得現在行政院大概的進度是怎麼樣"},{"start":1223.873,"end":1242.586,"text":"在強迫勞動部分其實也是這一次ART簽署的其中一個很重要的重點所以其實在2月12號我們簽完ART之後其實在2月13號勞動部就已經發了我們關於防治強迫勞動的這個指引那這個指引其實內容非常的詳細"},{"start":1243.687,"end":1258.34,"text":"那所以接下來我想我們也會用這個修法的方式來針對說也許會有一些移工過去可能會被扣留證件的部分我們會直接立法來禁止那至於跟經紀部方面我們其實也可以跟經紀部一起來合作那"},{"start":1259.28,"end":1281.249,"text":"對於企業對於這些強迫勞動可能他們不是那麼瞭解相關的規定或是不知道那麼瞭解風險樣態的部分我們會有一個輔導團然後來去協助企業能夠辨識風險進而能夠降低這個經營的風險我想這是很重要的事情那這部分我們都會跟經濟部接下一起那NAP的部分會比較是經濟部這邊的計畫是是是但是我想勞動部我們會全力來協助"},{"start":1283.05,"end":1306.126,"text":"對,然後前一陣子也發了指引,不過前一陣子的勞政跟人權委員會他們做了一些調查,其實國內對這個部分還是認識比較少,而且我常常注意在跟大家說,就是現在這個人權,感覺我講的是人權,是大道理,不過現在跟台灣的企業經營會有非常大的關係,還是請不管是行政院的部會能夠多加的留意,"},{"start":1306.386,"end":1324.282,"text":"我們現在勞工的人權已經變成是企業要打國際賽的重要的競爭力我想我們是非常清楚這件事情的另外當然這一塊就是漁工的部分這個應該是所謂農業部的管轄就是我們長期在關注台灣的尤其是遠洋的漁船"},{"start":1325.463,"end":1344.359,"text":"很多的愚工我們過去很多年都為了這個事情非常傷腦筋看怎麼樣來處理其實對我們國家整個人權的狀況都有很大的衝擊當包含美國每次人權報告人口大概都會提到我們這件事情"},{"start":1345.838,"end":1354.966,"text":"所以我們當然是希望說漁工跟我們在路上的漁工都享有一些待遇而且大家可以看到這一次的這個"},{"start":1356.771,"end":1361.975,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那我想在漁業的遠洋漁工的部分其實我們漁業與人權行動方案裡面一個非常重要就是要保障遠洋漁業的勞動條件跟勞動的環境"},{"start":1382.589,"end":1404.414,"text":"那針對勞動環境的部分包括他在漁船上的一個居家的一個環境空間使用Wi-Fi的一個可能性還有下船以後的臨時短時間的這個居住我想我們漁業署都已經一步一步都到位了後續我想我們會更加強整個漁業的那個薪資或勞動條件的一個更精進"},{"start":1405.074,"end":1428.753,"text":"對 我知道過去有像是CTD啊或者是像那個Wi-Fi啦其實然後那個農業部這邊都有做了一些努力啊也有一些進展喔那其實我們最近比較談到的就是這些遠洋運工要不要適用一些國內的勞動法啦當然有比較多的學者也許他們會講到勞基法啦那當然我是採一個比較中性的是不是有可能我們現在的災保法有可能適用就像我們現在的"},{"start":1429.553,"end":1447.083,"text":"這個家庭的照顧的移工一樣家事移工的部分他雖然不適用勞基法他也有可能有災保的保障不曉得部長覺得怎麼樣我跟委員報告一下就是說漁業的勞動的權益的保障是我們共同的一個目標那但是因為遠洋漁業是在境外僱用境外解僱"},{"start":1447.844,"end":1462.161,"text":"所以他在很多監管方面來講就是會比較困擾所以我們現在正在跟環境跟勞動部在討論說有沒有一個更好更有效率的能夠確保我們遠洋漁業的一個勞動的一個權益這是我想我們最核心的一個價值"},{"start":1462.782,"end":1490.241,"text":"所以我希望藉由這一次阿特的簽署能夠真的讓不管是大家對我們一般的移工製造業的移工或者是我們遠洋的移工能夠藉由這樣子我們跟美國簽訂的阿特基本上會有一些長途的發展文書我們也很希望阿特送到立法院以後真的是希望朝野委員可以一起來支持因為這裡面的確會有很多不只是對我們經貿上有幫助也對我們整體的人權都很有幫助的重要的共識的條文"},{"start":1491.343,"end":1510.652,"text":"好那另外當然這個我在要來立法院之前有非常多的勞工或勞團他們其實一直在這個應該說敦促我一直要來問這個事情就是現在勞工的退休的保障的部分我想這個應該是很多人大概都知道"},{"start":1511.272,"end":1531.042,"text":"那我們現在退休裡面分為兩部分一部分當然就是老保的這個所謂老年年金另外一就是勞退我們現在看老保的部分其實這個大家都知道我們現在少子女化這個所謂的幾富制其實這個財務其實有很多的問題而且這個老的人越來越多少子女化年輕人越來越少"},{"start":1532.483,"end":1542.585,"text":"就這個不管是勞動部還是行政院這邊對於這個除了撥補以外啦對於這個勞保的這個他的一個基金的一個運作狀況有沒有什麼一些想法"},{"start":1544.452,"end":1569.186,"text":"跟委員報告其實在勞保的財務上面當然大家都很關心那我們也非常非常盡力要不斷的監測這個勞保財務的情況就目前應該是在115年的1月最新1月底我們看到現在勞保基金其實的累積其實已經到了一兆快4000億一兆3900多億了那這都是逐年從109年開始撥補"},{"start":1571.727,"end":1593.664,"text":"然後還有包括我們在投資的效益也很不錯累積起來這其實也到了一個勞保財務的新高但我們不會因為這樣就是很樂觀我們不是這個態度因為的確未來都還是會有很大的挑戰但也因為這樣其實我們在上個會期其實也修了勞保條例把政府的撥補包括最終責任的概念也把它修到法規裡"},{"start":1594.684,"end":1614.615,"text":"所以當然接下來對於勞保整體的改革我想我們會密切關注啦但的確相對應如果要更進一步的改革比方說涉及到給付涉及到這個費率的話的確會需要社會有更多的一個共識尤其他牽涉到勞工的權益那對於牽涉到勞工權益的部分我們都會特別謹慎"},{"start":1616.016,"end":1643.258,"text":"那當然另外一個就是這個啦老退的部分啦我想部長應該也常常聽到非常多的勞團他在做這個倡議啦因為現在利用趴他們覺得說很久了很久都沒有調整了然後相對於其他國家來說這個就是固定固體的那個部分啦其實很多的勞團都在倡議說是不是要提高啦那其實我們黨也有在第四屆的時候也提過這個問題啦那不曉得這個市長這邊有沒有想要說就是這個"},{"start":1643.959,"end":1660.692,"text":"我想非常多老闆非常非常殷切的期盼想要知道說到底其實6%是法規要求的最低標準我說僱主提撥6%是法規其實現在我看到越來越多的企業他提撥超過6%甚至他可能是"},{"start":1661.352,"end":1690.016,"text":"是企業跟工會之間用團體協約的方式來去協議超過6%的部分那其實我們也跟金管會合作那把這個超過6%的部分其實列為其實一些企業治理的這個永續治理相關的指標其實我們把它給列進去那這都讓很多企業其實越來越關注也越來越有動機去把這個地板可以再往上拉高的狀況那的確當然大家在關心包括有沒有要用修法的方式來把這個地板再拉高"},{"start":1690.436,"end":1712.652,"text":"那我覺得這部分的意見我們是很願意來聆聽各界的意見啦尤其是勞工但的確這也會涉及到企業上面的意見那我們也很願意來聆聽各界的意見那針對這個問題大家來做一些討論因為勞工的退休的生活他的經濟安全我想勞工部一定是最關注我認為行政院也是很關注因為越南已經好幾次都非常非常關注這個問題所以"},{"start":1714.033,"end":1734.579,"text":"在相關的做法上面我覺得我們可以有一個比較整體是可以有一個比較整體性的思考那把各界的期待來做一個總體上面的意見的交換我覺得這個是我們是可以來討論的所以部長那個有關字體的部分有沒有想說可以給一些比較獎勵的方案或支持的方案我說字體必須要那個6%的部分"},{"start":1736.219,"end":1761.969,"text":"我跟委員報告 我們其實的確現在有在研議因為其實如果勞工願意自提尤其是這幾年看到這個勞退基金的這個勞退的這個投資的效益真的是很不錯其實真的可以對勞工的退休金有更多的幫助所以我們其實現在也在研擬一個更加鼓勵大家自提的方案尤其是因為現在真的比較多自提的還是薪水比較高的那一段"},{"start":1762.489,"end":1785.63,"text":"那薪水比較低的一些勞工,他覺得自提的誘因可能比較低一點所以我們怎麼樣來設計,能夠讓一些薪水相對比較不那麼高的勞工也有誘因跟動機,更多的誘因跟動機來自提,鼓勵大家來自提其實我想我們也在研擬相關的政策市政委報告三個原則,第一個我們想保障退休勞工,退休之後生活當中最基本的"},{"start":1786.611,"end":1811.445,"text":"能夠安頓他的生活的要條件第二個也不想在勞工的繳費的過程當中增加他的任何的負擔跟辛苦所以第三個我們希望從企業來著手企業如果能夠增加這個最低的標準往上提升的話在企業將來永續發展的這個公司治理上面可以給他獎勵那後續還有勞動部更進一步的作業要做鼓勵自體我們會來研擬相關讓大家誘因更高"},{"start":1812.145,"end":1837.781,"text":"好 感謝那當然最後啦因為我來自嘉義啦我在中正大學嘛那基本上我想地方上對這個聯絡這個所謂的高鐵跟嘉義市的這個輕軌其實這個非常殷切的期盼啦我想這個其實有一些大家這個出錢分配的問題啦那我在這裡也沒有要再這個講這件事情那希望大家協力啦共同促成這個事情不過各縣市還有很多重大的"},{"start":1842.844,"end":1845.512,"text":"好 謝謝王翔委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:10.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:32:10.463000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:11.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:32:13.625000+08:00","text":"是不是有請卓院長跟顧部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:13.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:32:16.366000+08:00","text":"麻煩請卓院長、國防部長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:16.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:32:16.486000+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:16.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:32:16.987000+08:00","text":"院長好、部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:34.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:32:49.091000+08:00","text":"我今天的質詢就從軍購開始，其實我們台灣民眾黨1月到美國去拜訪了當地的一些智庫跟政府的官員，回國之後，我們就提出了台灣民眾黨版本所謂的軍購特別條例。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:32:54.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:33:15.321000+08:00","text":"可以看到這一頁投影片，就是在我們草案的第五條裡面，我們現在的邏輯非常簡單，就是official、官方有看到美國已經願意要出售的軍品，包括它的項目跟它的數量，我們就把它列在我們這個草案裡面。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:33:16.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:33:30.507000+08:00","text":"基本上，包括前一陣子的發價書跟最近、今天好像看到又有，基本上大概都涵蓋在我們草案第五條的項目裡面。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:33:32.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:33:49.992000+08:00","text":"我想這個過程也很順利，目前看起來行政院版還有台灣民眾黨版，還有昨天中國國民黨版也都付委，可以併案來討論，希望大家能夠異中求同，不曉得院長怎麼看這件事情？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:33:53.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:34:27.443000+08:00","text":"國家基於國防最嚴謹的專業評估需求，而且考量國家的財政能力跟年度的規劃，經過長時間提出了1.25兆的特別條例跟往後的特別預算，這是一個整套的內容，包括總統所說的，必須有個臺灣之盾，還要用AI高科技形成一個擊殺鏈，第三個是發展國內的軍工產業，這個是整套的，任何一個割裂，都會讓我們在執行過程當中產生一個現在不可預知的狀況。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:34:27.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:34:43.520000+08:00","text":"同時我要說，軍事的採購是我們向外國做採購，不是外國拿著一張單子來兜售，我們沒有辦法讓他拿一個單子四處在外面兜售，要各位看到了單子以後，我們才要去就單子的內容再做選擇。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:34:43.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:34:48.445000+08:00","text":"這整套的規劃，我還是誠懇的期待以國防部所提出的規劃來作為我們最終討論的依據。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:34:53.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:35:01.396000+08:00","text":"基本上台灣民眾黨的邏輯就是這樣，我剛剛說過，只要確定能夠買到東西，其實台灣民眾黨都是支持的。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:35:02.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:35:24.902000+08:00","text":"我們可以看到在這一頁上面，部長因為發價書的事情，我們的期程上可能會有一些來不及的狀況，院長和部長應該有看到，台灣民眾黨今天早上已經送案到行政院，希望可以如部長所說的，我們現在可以事前授權，部長應該有看到這個新聞吧？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:35:27.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:35:46.510000+08:00","text":"我有看到這個新聞，同時我也要跟委員報告，在貴黨版本裡面的第四條是將已經經過美國知會國會的項目把它列出來，而且把這些項目列出來以後還列上金額。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:35:46.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:36:17.057000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員報告，現在您提到這個發價書，如果將相關這些已經知會國會的金額寫在那個條例裡面，這其實是將條例和預算混淆了，因為他先前做一個知會國會的初步報價之後，我們現在還有發價書，發價書上面還會有金額，之後他還要進行一個議價的程序，相關的議價程序之後，才會確認相關的金額。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:36:17.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:36:31.027000+08:00","text":"另外我們還有國內配合的項目，譬如我們要買海馬士，不是只有海馬士，另外還有要容納海馬士相關系統的彈堡這樣的設置。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:36:31.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:36:43.514000+08:00","text":"所以貴黨在第四條列出這樣的金額把它列入條例裡面，我想這並不是一個很適當的作為。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:36:44.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:37:06.831000+08:00","text":"從發價書這件事情的事先授權，就可以看得出來，整個行政院版是經過兩年的時間，不斷地在做內部的研討，然後提出一個整體的規劃案，所以您不能只看知會國會的這些項目，然後只把知會國會的項目列出來，其他還有很多項目。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:37:07.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:37:24.121000+08:00","text":"像剛剛院長提到的臺灣之盾，這不是只有相關的軍購的部分，我們還有相關的AI決策的系統要連結上，還有我們國內委製的強弓系統也都要放在特別預算裡面，這樣才能整體形成一個臺灣之盾的規劃。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:37:24.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:37:41.587000+08:00","text":"如果你現在只看到知會國會的部分，然後就把它擺進來，而其他的部分都略而不論的話，那我們整體戰力的規劃、整體的評估，就完全變成零零碎碎而沒有辦法形成一個整體的戰力啊！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:37:41.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:37:51.033000+08:00","text":"對，部長，可是您還是支持台灣民眾黨提這個案子能夠解決所謂發價書先行的部分，應該是支持我們做這個……","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:37:51.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:38:25.111000+08:00","text":"我想發價書要先行授權就是反映著我們提出了這個版之後，條例一直沒有辦法付委，現在已經經過知會國會之後，美國都已經進入要提供給我們發價書、要我們簽署了，我們現在連條例都沒有付委，預算也都還沒有開始審議，所以我們當然還是希望……貴黨現在也很願意接受我之前提出的一個呼籲，就是在預算付委之前，先授權我們來進行發價書的簽署，那我跟……","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:38:25.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:38:29.354000+08:00","text":"就是未來有一些新的我們都願意加到這個……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:38:29.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:38:37.719000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，您現在講的是三項，我在這裡再跟您講一下，第四個發價書已經來了，您現在授權是要我……是……","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:38:42.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:39:08.654000+08:00","text":"我是建議現在五個部分經過知會國會，您現在列的這幾項，有一些事實上並不是屬於我們要放入特別預算的項目，也就是說，我看到國民黨版把一些不是應該放入特別預算的部分放進來了，而現在屬於貴黨所提出來那五個要放入特別預算的部分，我是建議一體授權，讓我們全部可以簽署發價書。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:39:08.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:39:14.296000+08:00","text":"所以你也贊成我們這樣的做法嘛，就是再把海馬士後來發價書的部分應該……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-06T14:39:15.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:39:26.879000+08:00","text":"我們現在還有一個反裝甲Altius700的發價書還沒有拿到，所以我想立院如果同意的話，那就是五項的發價書全部……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:39:27.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:39:37.682000+08:00","text":"對，當然那部分還是要經過立院的程序，我現在只是提出本席的意見，我們是希望協助，能夠儘快取得我們的軍購項目。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:39:39.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:39:54.987000+08:00","text":"現在國際情勢瞬息萬變，大家可以看到因為戰爭，所以接下來的事情也許跟我們的國防未必有直接關係，而是跟我們的能源政策可能會有一些關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:39:55.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:40:23.607000+08:00","text":"大家可以看到在這個投影片上面，我們現在燃氣的部分所占的比率很高，在新的能源規劃上可能占到百分之五十幾，基本上因為戰爭的波動，價格會有很明顯的上漲，都會讓我們非常擔心會不會因為燃氣、LNG的上漲造成電費的上漲。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:40:24.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:40:59.282000+08:00","text":"我們可以看到現在自卡達進口部分的比率還滿高的，我這幾天有聽到很多不管是民間或者學術單位都對這件事情有點擔心，我想這幾天部長針對這個部分做了一些說明，國外很多媒體也提出了很多警示，提醒我們對能源政策要非常非常小心，而且現在看起來，我們的天然氣存量大概不到11天，只有十多天，可能還不到兩週。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:41:02.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:41:11.562000+08:00","text":"因為我們前幾天都在講關稅的部分、ART的部分，是不是可以透過ART來協助解決這類的問題？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:41:11.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:41:12.362000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:41:12.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:41:46.231000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們長期的規劃就是這樣，在我們跟美國簽訂的MOU 及ART裡面事實上有說明，我們會從卡達採購天然氣的部分，一部分慢慢移轉到從美國進口，從現在開始到……我們現在從美國進口的大概是10%多一點，會慢慢到2029年增加為25%，所以從中東地區的進口量就會有效地慢慢降下來。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:41:46.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:01.203000+08:00","text":"這個禮拜初、這個禮拜二，大家也針對關稅的部分做一些討論，不過目前看起來因為有一些變化，所以基本上可能要等到美國的協商，這個案子最後可能才能夠確定，我不知道跟美國確定這個事情會不會延緩到我們燃氣的供應？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:04.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:15.979000+08:00","text":"沒有，MOU的部分，這個採購本來就是我們的政策，我們跟美國、跟哪一家公司買、在哪裡買本來就是我們的政策，我們本來就有做這樣的打算。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:16.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:22.283000+08:00","text":"所以基本上大概都已經成形了，就在燃氣的部分，我們應該已經找到一些其他的替代？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:22.283000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:23.803000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:23.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:33.608000+08:00","text":"當然，我剛剛提到LNG、燃氣的部分是不是要考慮到其他的能源替代，就是包含核電的部分。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:35.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:45.273000+08:00","text":"去年8月23日辦了一場由我們台灣民眾黨提出的公投，我想那一次大概也喚醒了很多人對於能源規劃的重視。","quality":0.659},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:46.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:51.856000+08:00","text":"這幾天很多媒體也在講這件事情，就是現在核三好像在做一些評估……是。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:52.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:42:54.718000+08:00","text":"不曉得現在核三的進度如何？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:42:55.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:22.182000+08:00","text":"因為自主的安全檢查已經開始，跟原廠西屋公司的MOU也已經簽了，所以很快西屋公司就會派人來，共同把自主安全檢查裡面再仔細看看哪些是不是有老化，需要做一些修正的部分；另外還有一個再運轉的計畫，我們在今年這個月的月底就會送給核安會。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:22.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:22.842000+08:00","text":"就是有兩個部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:22.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:24.223000+08:00","text":"就是要進去了，還要進入審查……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:25.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:27.544000+08:00","text":"一個是自主安全檢查，一個是再運轉計畫，這兩個已經開始同時進行。OK。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:28.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:35.167000+08:00","text":"看起來好像最近提到的都是核三的部分，現在核二大概評估的狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:36.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:42.172000+08:00","text":"核二也會同步進行，只是核二因為它的燃料棒……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:42.172000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:43.172000+08:00","text":"比較久。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:42.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:43:52.901000+08:00","text":"因為乾式貯存還在建置當中，所以它的燃料棒還要拿出來以後才有辦法去做自主安全檢查，所以時間上會稍微往後面一點點。是。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:43:55.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:44:14.234000+08:00","text":"其實我也非常感慨，因為去年我幫台灣民眾黨去各地宣導這個東西，現在看起來對本席來說，希望能源政策真的能夠多元，從這次的戰爭就可以看到我們處在地緣政治中，其實這個部分非常非常重要。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:44:15.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:44:38.063000+08:00","text":"另外有關於戰爭的部分，這幾天我本身也有接到這方面的一些訊息，我想院長應該知道，就是在地有非常多不管是那裡的僑民或者是過境、旅遊的人，他們在這幾天承受到非常多的壓力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:44:39.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:45:01.113000+08:00","text":"我就有接到幾位，有一位甚至後來買到機票搭上飛機，或是機場廣播已經傳出要landing了，他還在LINE給我，由此就可以感覺到他那種不安，一直到了最後、到了泰國，他才有可能relax，所以這個事情外交部是不是可以跟我們講一下大概的狀況？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:45:02.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:45:20.821000+08:00","text":"大家可以看到在網路上有很多留言，好像我們跟其他國家的認知不大一樣或是採取的策略不大一樣，像這個是最近才看到的一些指引；另外就是在一個群組裡面，他們有跟我們說，他們要成立自救會。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:45:20.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:45:40.591000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個對國人來說，當然是一個滿大的打擊，因為大家都知道，過去那些國家我們都覺得他們是一個相對安全的地方，我們有很多國人很喜歡去那邊，不論是過境、轉機或者是去那邊旅遊，所以截至目前為止，外交部這次整體的策略大概是怎麼樣？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:45:41.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:03.644000+08:00","text":"我先跟委員說明一下，我們都應該完全體會到在當地的國人或是旅客他們各種焦慮的心情，我們完全完全可以體會，而且要想辦法儘量紓解，所以第一時間我們請外交部還有交通部觀光署，要主動去找到在當地旅行團的團客以及自由行的遊客。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:04.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:13.349000+08:00","text":"另外，在當地的僑民也請外交部能夠一一地主動用電話的方式或其他方式加以聯繫，表示政府是關心大家的。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:13.349000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:14.349000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:14.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:22.233000+08:00","text":"無論是旅行團的團客或是自由行的遊客，我們希望他第一時間能夠買得到機票回來，停止他的旅行。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:22.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:44.650000+08:00","text":"第二，能夠由陸路去到空域已經開放的國家再飛回來，現在我們也期待，如果當地的航空、空域都開了，我們也希望能夠跟當地洽商，政府也在考慮，經由雙方的同意、對方的同意，我們採行包機方式把他們接回來，但這個取決於對方，第一個，空域有沒有開？","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:44.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:46.192000+08:00","text":"第二個，空域是否安全？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:46.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:51.195000+08:00","text":"再來是我們雙方的洽商是否能夠完成，但是這個部分我們還在努力當中，至於現階段的情況，我請外交部說明。","quality":0.644},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:51.195000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:52.195000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:46:52.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:46:59.317000+08:00","text":"我想非常多國人，尤其旅外的國人，非常非常殷切期盼剛剛院長所說的部分，次長應該同意吧？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-03-06T14:47:01.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:47:10.320000+08:00","text":"當然我們現在完全可以了解國人在那個地方因為旅行的不便所帶來的不確定性，我們也要求駐館到場服務。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-03-06T14:47:13.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:47:39.325000+08:00","text":"另外一個問題是，因為自由行或者過境的旅客比較難掌握，對此，我們有大力的宣傳，也請委員幫忙宣傳，就是在人際之間，能夠請他們到外交部來登錄，登錄之後，我們才能聯絡得到，我們看到機票了，我們就會通知相關的人，我們也會跟航空公司交涉機票的價格、飛行的班機等等。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-03-06T14:47:39.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:47:54.070000+08:00","text":"另外，像是幾個空域沒有開放的國家，我們必須安排他們經由陸路來行動，像您剛才提到的這個東西，事實上包括卡達在內，我們要先確認陸路是安全的，然後才可以進行。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:47:54.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:47:59.356000+08:00","text":"是，因為有好多說法，比方說由陸路過去，曾經是有這樣的講法。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-03-06T14:47:59.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:48:15.679000+08:00","text":"有，我們都有個別的說明，像卡達的部分，我們在3月4號晚上就已經有第一團、10個人從陸路到達沙烏地阿拉伯利雅德，然後安排班機回來臺灣。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:48:15.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:48:16.679000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:48:15.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:48:34.708000+08:00","text":"所以我要跟院長說，就是要做一個警示，因為我本身也收到一些人跟我們求救，希望未來不管是我們立法院，或者是兩個部會，包括交通部還有外交部，我們可以一起把這件事情做好，我想提供國人最好的服務，可能是我們最大的一個期待。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:48:35.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:48:55.113000+08:00","text":"再跟委員報告，經過外交部跟交通部觀光署的努力，在這三天當中，已經有8個團體、246人回到國內，其他還有6個團體的108人，我們會持續的、快速的依照他們的意願，畢竟有些人真的是願意繼續留在那邊，我們也不能強迫他們，至於願意回來的，我們一定想盡辦法，透過空路、透過陸路，想辦法讓他回到國內來。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:48:55.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:48:56.674000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:48:56.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:49:20.671000+08:00","text":"另外，在這一次的ART裡面，對於我們這些關注勞動權益的學者，其實是非常開心的，因為在臺美21世紀貿易倡議裡面已經在講的事情，這次都有寫在裡面，因為我們長期在關注這個事情，所以對於這個事情，我們也非常期待有更進一步的發展。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:49:22.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:49:42.779000+08:00","text":"像我曾經說的，就是所謂集體勞動的部分，這一次美方也希望我們有更好的集體勞動的一個展現，可以消除我們很多在結社方面的一些困難，對此，當然我們過去長期也花了很多的精神、很多的努力。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:49:44.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:50:08.492000+08:00","text":"我想國內的事業單位是有一些特性，像前一陣子有一些比較特殊的情況，就是我們一些公部門適不適合組工會，像我們的警消人員也倡議非常久了，我們也希望藉由這次的ART，看是不是可以可以讓我們集體勞動的部分能夠得到更好的發展，是不是請部長再跟我們說明一下？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:50:11.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:50:34.234000+08:00","text":"好，因為王委員其實是在勞動領域深耕很久而且很專業的學者，所以我想王委員應該也很清楚，其實在這一次ART的簽署裡面，因為我們覺得結社權的部分對於勞工權益是有幫助的，所以我們也跟美方有產生這樣子的共識，希望能夠往前來推進。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:50:34.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:51:09.271000+08:00","text":"關於這個部分，我們大概會有5年左右的法規調適期，因為臺灣的中小企業的確比較多，所以我們接下來在往前走的時候，我們第一個事情是會請專家學者一起來做一些研討，接下來對於工會法或者是爭議處理的相關法規在法規修訂上面的可行性，也會包括各個相關的團體，不管是雇主團體，不管是勞工團體，我們都會來跟大家討論，蒐整大家的意見，然後來提出這樣的方案。是。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:51:10.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:51:19.313000+08:00","text":"其實對這個方向我們都是非常非常支持的，就像剛剛王委員說的，我們希望在結社權的部分真的能夠再往前走一步。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:51:19.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:51:24.714000+08:00","text":"是，我想這也是很多臺灣的勞工跟勞團所殷切期盼的。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:51:26.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:51:51.804000+08:00","text":"另外，這一次也有提到很多人權的部分，我想臺美在談這個事情的時候常常都在講這些事情，已經講很久了，就是這個所謂的NAP行動方案，我不曉得現在這個行動方案大概的狀況是如何，在2024年有一版，現在會不會因為ART的簽署而讓這些事情進展得更快一些些？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:51:52.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:52:03.444000+08:00","text":"尤其是強迫勞動的部分，在前一陣子我們臺灣有廠商的產品被扣在美國的港口。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:52:04.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:52:12.628000+08:00","text":"基本上，這個事情我們倡議非常久了，就是有關於盡職調查的部分，經濟部是不是要全面來做？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:52:15.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:52:20.753000+08:00","text":"我們甚至要入法，現在行政院這邊大概的進度是怎麼樣？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:52:21.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:52:40.586000+08:00","text":"在強迫勞動的部分其實也是這一次ART簽署的其中一個很重要的重點，在2月12號我們簽完ART之後，其實在2月13號勞動部就已經發了我們關於防制強迫勞動的指引，這個指引的內容非常的詳細。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:52:42.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:52:51.636000+08:00","text":"我想接下來我們也會用修法的方式，針對有一些移工過去可能會被扣留證件的部分，我們會直接立法來禁止。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:52:52.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:53:13.547000+08:00","text":"至於經濟部方面，我們其實也會跟經濟部一起來合作，企業對於強迫勞動可能不是那麼了解相關的規定或是不那麼了解風險樣態的部分，我們會有一個輔導團，然後協助企業辨識風險，進而能夠降低他們經營的風險，我想這是很重要的事情，這部分我們都會跟經濟部接在一起。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:53:14.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:53:19.229000+08:00","text":"剛剛所提NAP的部分會比較是經濟部這邊的計畫，但是我們勞動部也會全力來協助。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:53:21.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:53:30.597000+08:00","text":"對，勞動部前一陣子有發了這個指引，不過勞陣跟國家人權委員會也做了一些調查，其實國內對這個部分的認識還是比較少。","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:53:31.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:53:44.106000+08:00","text":"而且我常常出去外面跟大家說，就是現在感覺好像人權是大道理，不過現在跟臺灣企業的經營會有非常大的關係，不管是由行政院哪個部會負責，還是請多加留意一下。","quality":0.681},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:53:44.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:53:53.675000+08:00","text":"委員，現在勞工的人權已經變成企業要打國際賽的重要競爭力，我想我們是非常清楚這件事情的。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:53:53.675000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:53:54.675000+08:00","text":"是，我同意部長這樣的想法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:53:53.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:54:22.339000+08:00","text":"另外一塊就是漁工的部分，這個應該是農業部所管轄的，我們長期在關注臺灣的這個部分，尤其是遠洋的漁船，因為有很多的漁工，我們過去其實有很多年都為了這個事情非常的傷腦筋，看要怎麼樣來處理，其實這對我們國家整個人權的狀況都有很大的衝擊，包含美國每次的人權報告、人口販運報告大概都會提到我們的這一件事情。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:54:24.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:54:32.966000+08:00","text":"我們當然希望漁工跟在陸上的移工都享有一樣的待遇，而且大家可以看到這一次在ART裡面寫的這一句話，我們非常非常的期待有這一句話，就是能夠跟陸上的這些勞工享有一樣的勞動權益，不曉得部長怎麼看？","quality":0.36},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-06T14:54:34.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:55:22.414000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，我想在漁業的遠洋漁工部分，其實我們「漁業與人權行動計畫」裡面一個非常重要的，就是要保障遠洋漁業的勞動條件跟勞動環境，針對勞動環境的部分，包括他在漁船上的居家環境空間、使用WiFi的可能性，還有下船後臨時、短時間的居住，我想我們漁業署都已經一步一步到位了，後續我們會更加強整個漁業的薪資或勞動條件的更精進。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:55:23.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:55:29.859000+08:00","text":"對，我知道過去像是CCTV，或者是像WiFi，農業部這邊都有做了一些努力，也有一些進展。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:55:30.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:55:45.972000+08:00","text":"其實我們最近比較談到的就是這些遠洋漁工要不要適用一些國內的勞動法，當然有比較多的學者也許他們會講到勞基法，但我是採比較中性，是不是我們現在的災保法有可能適用？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:55:46.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:55:54.557000+08:00","text":"就像我們現在的家庭照顧移工、家事移工的部分，他雖然不適用勞基法，可是也可能有災保，不曉得部長覺得怎麼樣？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-06T14:55:54.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:56:20.141000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，漁業勞動權益的保障是我們共同的目標，但是因為遠洋漁業是在境外僱用、境外解僱，所以在很多的監管方面來講就是會比較困擾，我們現在正在跟勞動部討論看看有沒有一個更好、更有效率能夠確保我們遠洋漁業的勞動權益，這是我們最核心的價值。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:56:20.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:56:34.211000+08:00","text":"是，所以我希望藉由這一次ART的簽署能夠真的讓這個……不管是我們一般的移工、製造業的移工或者是遠洋的移工，能夠藉由我們跟美國簽訂的ART，基本上會有一些長足的發展……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:56:35.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:56:49.343000+08:00","text":"委員，所以我們也很希望ART送到立法院以後，真的希望朝野委員可以一起來支持，因為這裡面的確會有很多，不只是對我們經貿上有幫助，也對我們整體的人權都很有幫助的、重要的共識條文。好。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:56:50.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:57:15.655000+08:00","text":"另外，我在要來立法院之前，有非常多的勞工或勞團一直在敦促我要來問這個事情，就是現在勞工退休保障的部分，我想這個應該很多人都知道，我們現在的退休分為兩兩部分，一部分當然就是所謂勞保的老年年金，另外一個就是勞退。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:57:16.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:57:40.565000+08:00","text":"我們現在先看勞保的部分，大家知道我們現在少子女化，所謂給付制的財務其實有很多的問題，而且老的人越來越多，又少子女化，年輕人越來越少，不管是勞動部還是行政院這邊，除了撥補以外，對於勞保基金的運作狀況有沒有什麼樣的一些想法？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:57:42.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:57:52.518000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在勞保的財務方面，當然大家都很關心，我們也非常非常盡力要不斷的監測勞保財務的情況。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:57:52.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:58:36.787000+08:00","text":"就目前，應該是在115年1月，最新的資料是1月底，我們看到現在勞保基金的累積其實已經到了快1兆4,000億，大概有一兆三千九百多億元了，這是從109年開始逐年撥補的，然後還包括我們投資的效益也很不錯所累積起來的，這其實也到了一個勞保財務的新高，但我們不會因為這樣就很樂觀，也不是，我們不是這個態度，因為的確未來都還是會有很大的挑戰，也因為這樣，我們在上個會期也修正了勞保條例，把政府的撥補，包括最終責任的概念，也把它修到法規裡面，所以接下來對於勞保整體的改革，我想我們會密切關注。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:58:37.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:58:52.615000+08:00","text":"但是的確，相對應如果要更進一步的改革，比方說涉及到給付、涉及到費率的話，的確會需要社會有更多的共識，尤其這個涉及到勞工的權益，對於牽涉到勞工權益的部分，我們都會特別謹慎。是。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:58:54.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:59:20.598000+08:00","text":"另外一個就是勞退的部分，我想部長應該也常常聽到非常多勞團在做這個倡議，因為現在的6%他們覺得已經很久都沒有調整了，然後相對其他國家來說，固提的部分，其實很多勞團都在倡議是不是要提高，其實我們黨在本屆的時候也有提過這個問題，不曉得部長這邊有沒有想要提高？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T14:59:21.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:59:25.202000+08:00","text":"我想非常多勞團是非常非常殷切的期盼，想要知道說到底怎麼樣……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T14:59:25.202000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T14:59:27.483000+08:00","text":"我請部長說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:59:27.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T14:59:43.836000+08:00","text":"其實雇主提撥6%是法規要求的最低標準，但現在我看到有越來越多企業的提撥超過6%，甚至可能是企業跟工會之間用團體協約的方式去協議超過6%的部分。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T14:59:44.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:00:01.430000+08:00","text":"其實我們也跟金管會合作，把超過6%的部分列為一些企業治理的永續治理相關指標，我們是有把它給列進去，這都讓很多企業越來越關注，也越來越有動機把這個地板再往上拉高。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T15:00:01.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:00:22.166000+08:00","text":"的確，大家在關心包括有沒有要用修法的方式來把這個地板再拉高，這部分我們是很願意來聆聽各界的意見，尤其是勞工，但這也會涉及企業的意見，我們也很願意來聆聽各界的意見，針對這個問題，大家來做一些討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T15:00:22.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:00:45.197000+08:00","text":"因為勞工的退休生活、經濟安全，勞動部一定是最關注的，我認為行政院也是很關注，因為院長已經好幾次都非常、非常關注這個問題，所以在相關的做法上面，我覺得我們是可以有一個比較整體性的思考，把各界的期待做一個總體的意見交換，這是我們可以來討論的。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T15:00:45.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:00:51.458000+08:00","text":"部長，有關自提的部分，有沒有想說可以給一些獎勵或支持的方案？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T15:00:51.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:00:52.559000+08:00","text":"我是指自提6%的那部分。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T15:00:54.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:01:36.844000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我們現在的確有在研議，如果勞工願意自提，尤其是這幾年看到勞退投資效益真的是很不錯，其實真的可以對勞工退休金有更多的幫助，所以我們現在也在研擬一個更加鼓勵大家自提的方案，尤其是因為現在比較多自提的真的還是薪水比較高的那一段，薪水比較低的一些勞工，他覺得自提的誘因可能比較低一點，所以怎麼樣設計能夠鼓勵一些薪水相對比較不那麼高的勞工，也有更多的誘因跟動機來自提，我們也在研擬相關的政策。好。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告有三個原則","start":"2026-03-06T15:01:38.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:05.943000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們想保障退休勞工在退休之後，能夠安頓他最基本的生活條件；第二個，也不想在勞工的繳費過程中，增加他任何負擔跟辛苦；第三個，我們希望從企業來著手，企業如果能夠增加讓最低的標準往上提升的話，在將來企業永續發展的公司治理上面，可以給他獎勵，後續還有勞動部更進一步的作業要做。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:06.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:09.425000+08:00","text":"鼓勵自提的部分，我們會來研擬相關措施，讓大家的誘因更高。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:10.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:11.326000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:12.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:34.520000+08:00","text":"最後，因為我來自嘉義，我在中正大學，基本上，地方上對於聯絡高鐵跟嘉義市的輕軌非常殷切的期盼，這其實有一些經費分配的問題，我在這裡也沒有要再講這件事情，希望大家協力，共同促成這件事情。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:34.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:35.761000+08:00","text":"各縣市還有很多重大的公共建設，我們會很穩健地進一步來做規劃，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:41.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:43.512000+08:00","text":"謝謝王安祥委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:44.012000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:49.726286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請范雲委員質詢，蘇清泉委員請準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:50.026286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T15:02:58.597714+08:00","text":"謝衣鳯委員聲明今天上午的表決與國民黨黨團意見一致，列入公報紀錄。","quality":0.033},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-06T15:02:58.897714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-06T15:03:00.040571+08:00","text":"范委員，請。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}