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可是我發現我們的人口成長還是不斷的往下修 不斷的往下修那這個問題剛剛楊學英委員也有問到 那我特別關注的一件事情是我們在整個少子化少子化對策計畫當中的時候 去年9月核定了2.0的版本 主委知道這件事情嗎 2.0的版本跟之前的100"},{"start":113.769,"end":138.936,"text":"107年到115年這過程當中這計劃當中原本有一個很重要的一個目標就是在119年的時候我們的人口生育率要到1.4這個數字不知道在2.0這版本當中有沒有改變有 我們有有改變是不是 改變到多少因為他現在的話是看他現在的實際上的環境因素"},{"start":140.071,"end":153.108,"text":"因為我們那個整個還在還在預估說那個整個生育率因為我們那個整個少子化的嚴重的程度比我們原本預估的還要更嚴重所以會再慢慢的再再再提供資料給給衛福部"},{"start":155.271,"end":175.613,"text":"所以說那個針對這個部分因為我看到114年9月核定的我國少子女化對策計畫2.0版本當中的時候把這個1.4這個生育率119年的生育率把它拿掉了我在想說是不是因為生育率的不斷的下修下修到連國發會都沒有辦法去預估到時候會有多慘"},{"start":176.834,"end":192.081,"text":"所以這個部分我希望能夠很快的把這個數字弄出來你沒有這個數字我們完全沒有辦法去去監督我們行政部門對於整個少金融化這個計畫到底執行的情況怎麼樣跟委員報告因為我們國發會沒兩年"},{"start":193.882,"end":220.032,"text":"會做一個人口支付那今年剛好我們也會再做一次的人口支付那我這邊另外再提一個狀態因為針對這個少子女化我們這幾年增加了五倍的預算可是出生率還是不斷往下修我提出一個概念因為現在西方世界他們有時候在提到UBI就是全民基本收入Universal Basic Income這個計畫當中的時候我想台灣還沒有做"},{"start":221.092,"end":246.905,"text":"可是我希望國發會去研究一下這個部分是不是適合在台灣去推動那我們希望說少子化問題完全變成國安的問題所以我們這部分國發會這邊一定要非常嚴正以待不能夠覺得說它自然就是這樣子我們就雙手一攤什麼事都沒有好不好那這個部分請國發會好好的加快那同樣一個月之內給本辦公室一個很完整的資料"},{"start":249.892,"end":276.96,"text":"那麼接下來就提到因為我看到今天國發會的一個夜報當中的時候提到了很多產業的發展感覺欣欣向榮啦那去年的經濟表現確實也不錯可是很大一部分都壓在了半導體跟這是AI的部分那我從新竹來我對這部分感受非常的深刻因為在新竹說實話不會感覺到經濟不好可是很多地方大家可以很明顯的感覺到台灣的經濟發展是很兩極的一個情況在走"},{"start":277.64,"end":306.104,"text":"當台積電一家公司的市值可以佔整個台灣資本市場的43%到45%的時候你就會發現這當中有多麼的一個扭曲那我在想說當我們在講說就是算力就是國力的時候那算力依賴電力所以我這邊我要特別請教一下朱主委就是按照我們就是那個天然氣事業法當中相關的一個法規的時候我們的"},{"start":307.861,"end":311.107,"text":"安全的事業儲量大概是幾天"},{"start":317.062,"end":343.692,"text":"安全存量的天數大概是11天目前是11天這個數字沒有錯吧對 經濟部那邊OK那不是11天當中的時候那經濟部他也表示我們大概3月份的時候大概有11.9天4月份大概有11.5天可是5、6月因為中東戰事的狀態現在可能是不足的狀態那目前要怎麼去解決這當然是一個很大的一個問題可是我今天要特別問的是"},{"start":344.992,"end":371.366,"text":"因為我看到了在我們國發會當中的一個會議當中在去年11月20號第135次委員會記錄當中的時候直接講到了就是台灣的國內天然氣安全存量只有7到10天那我不知道這情況是國發會的數字是精準的表示台灣現在實際上面的安全存量只有7到10天所以是經濟部這邊的數字不一樣還是你們"},{"start":375.742,"end":401.988,"text":"統計的方式不一樣這個部分我再請那個同仁去查一下 好 針對這個部分的時候你直接查因為那個我們很清楚從會議記錄當中看到這樣的資料請主委這邊查好資料之後再跟本辦公室做一個很清楚的交代另外就在同一次會議當中的時候也提到了因為我們在2022年當時提出來的一個就是"},{"start":403.974,"end":417.186,"text":"2050的精靈碳排的一個執行的一個路徑當中的時候提到天然氣大概佔台灣整個發電量的50%那在這過程當中特別提到的一個光電的一個部分我們預計在2030年光電要達到30GW"},{"start":421.609,"end":439.062,"text":"那麼到去年底我們統計數字是多少?主委知道嗎?好像是我們還沒有達到16嗎?好,所以我直接跟你講PVT上面都已經有寫大概是15.58GW大概一半左右那我們到2030年肯定"},{"start":441.448,"end":458.715,"text":"光電這個發電的量可能也會不夠於是在這次會議當中的時候國發會這邊有人提出來說對於目前農地只有40%可以用來做光電這個部分可能要鬆綁有確定這樣子嗎可不可以請主委做個回答"},{"start":459.475,"end":482.381,"text":"這個我再回去查一下那個會議記錄但目前來講農地鬆綁的話好像是還不是一個確定要執行的一個證據還沒有確定應該要鬆綁嘛對不對可是因為在那次會議當中他提到說農地沒有鬆綁的時候這個30GW在2030年當中的時候基本上這目標是達不到的"},{"start":483.711,"end":502.099,"text":"所以我記得問的這幾個問題我發現主委都要回去再去多了解那沒有問題我們要解決問題尤其電力就是國力這件事情是不容忽略的一個事情當我們很多的一個經濟成長都壓在半導體跟AI的時候你沒有電力這事情是完全沒有辦法做的"},{"start":503.28,"end":518.375,"text":"當台電在告訴我們從苗栗以北的時候所有的那個算力中心完全不允許的時候我們就發現台灣的電力是非常的緊張的像中東有戰事的時候那台灣這樣子的一個光是一個偏南氣的安全儲量的時候經濟部跟"},{"start":520.477,"end":543.253,"text":"國發會講說的數字這邊不一樣我們對於台灣的能源非常非常的擔心請國發會這邊好好去統整一下然後盡速給本辦公室一個很清楚的說明安全存量這個部分的話就是11天這個應該沒有任何意義可是因為你們的135次的會議紀錄很清楚提到他們的安全存量是7到10天我不知道是誰出錯"},{"start":544.534,"end":546.698,"text":"可以請主委這邊詳細再跟本辦公室做說明好 謝謝謝謝政政前委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:10.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:10:10.736000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:10.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:10:11.739000+08:00","text":"我想請葉主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:11.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:10:12.039000+08:00","text":"請葉主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:18.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:10:18.757000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:18.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:10:19.918000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:20.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:10:42.450000+08:00","text":"我先延續剛剛楊瓊瓔委員關心的人口問題，人口問題確實也是大家都非常關心的問題，從最新的戶政資料來說，我們2月份低到六千多人，跌破七千，非常地少，今年全年預計9萬可能都要很拚。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:10:42.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:11:05.094000+08:00","text":"我們看到一個數字，政府從107年投入到少子化相關計畫當中的時候，花了很多的錢，從107年到115年，主委知道整個成長了幾倍嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:11:05.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:11:06.569000+08:00","text":"你是說那個金額嗎？對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:11:06.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:11:30.298000+08:00","text":"來，我直接跟你講，少子女化對策計畫所投入的金額，是從107年的199億到115年的1,136億，光這幾年就增加了5倍經費，可是我發現我們的人口成長還是不斷地往下修、不斷地往下修。","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:11:31.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:11:50.390000+08:00","text":"關於這個問題，剛剛楊瓊瓔委員也有問到，而我特別關注的一件事情是，在少子女化對策計畫當中，去年9月核定了2.0版本，主委知道這件事情嗎？是。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:11:50.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:12:12.414000+08:00","text":"2.0的版本跟之前107年到115年的計畫相比，原本計畫有一個很重要的目標，就是119年我們的人口生育率要到1.4人，不知道在2.0版本當中，這個數字有沒有改變？","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:12:12.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:12:12.994000+08:00","text":"有，我們有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:12:13.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:12:14.194000+08:00","text":"有改變是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:12:14.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:12:14.775000+08:00","text":"改變到多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:12:21.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:12:34.088000+08:00","text":"我們還在預估整個生育率，因為少子化的嚴重程度比我們原本預估的還要更嚴重，所以我們會慢慢地再提供資料給衛福部。OK。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:12:37.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:12:56.613000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，因為我看到114年9月核定的我國少子女化對策計畫2.0版本當中，把119年生育率回升到1.4人拿掉了，我在想是不是因為生育率不斷地下修，下修到連國發會都沒有辦法去預估到時候會有多慘？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:12:57.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:13:11.581000+08:00","text":"所以我希望能夠很快地把這個數字弄出來，沒有這個數字，我們完全沒有辦法去監督行政部門對於整個少子女化計畫執行的情況。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:13:12.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:13:16.023000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為國發會每兩年會做一次人口推估……理解。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:13:16.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:13:20.584000+08:00","text":"今年剛好我們也會再做一次人口推估，所以我們在……OK。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:13:20.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:14:02.502000+08:00","text":"我另外再提一個狀態，針對少子女化，我們這幾年增加了5倍的預算，可是出生率還是不斷往下修，我提出一個概念，因為現在西方世界有時候會提到UBI（Universal Basic Income），也就是全民基本收入這個計畫，臺灣還沒有做，可是我希望國發會去研究一下這個部分是不是適合在臺灣推動因為少子女化問題完全變成國安問題，所以國發會一定要非常嚴陣以待，不能夠覺得它自然就是這樣子，我們就雙手一攤，什麼事都沒有，好不好？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:14:03.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:14:07.885000+08:00","text":"這個部分請國發會好好地加快，同樣一個月之內給本辦公室一個很完整的資料，好不好？好。OK。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:14:11.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:14:24.936000+08:00","text":"接下來就要提到，因為我看到今天國發會的業報當中提到很多產業的發展，感覺欣欣向榮，去年的經濟表現確實也不錯，可是很大一部分都壓在半導體和AI的部分。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:14:25.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:14:46.447000+08:00","text":"我從新竹來，我對這個部分感受非常地深刻，因為在新竹，說實話，不會感覺到經濟不好，可是很多地方大家都可以很明顯地感覺到臺灣的經濟發展是很兩極的情況，當台積電一家公司的市值可以占整個臺灣資本市場的百分之四十三到四十五的時候，你就會發現這當中有多麼的扭曲。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:14:48.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:15:12.087000+08:00","text":"當我們在講算力就是國力的時候，算力又依賴電力，所以我要特別請教主委，按照天然氣事業法的相關規定，我們的安全事業存量大概是幾天？嗯……","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:15:18.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:15:24.904000+08:00","text":"安全存量的天數大概是11天，目前是11天，這個數字沒有錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:15:25.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:15:26.565000+08:00","text":"對，經濟部那邊公布的……OK。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:15:29.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:15:41.771000+08:00","text":"經濟部也表示，我們3月份大概有11.9天，4月份大概有11.5天，可是5、6月份因為中東戰事的關係，可能會有不足的狀態，目前要怎麼去解決？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:15:41.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:15:43.831000+08:00","text":"這當然是一個很大的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:15:43.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:16:01.320000+08:00","text":"可是我今天要特別問的是，因為我看到國發會去年11月20日第135次委員會紀錄當中有直接講到，臺灣國內天然氣安全存量只有7到10天。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:16:05.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:16:18.803000+08:00","text":"如果國發會的數字是精準的，表示臺灣現在實際上面的安全存量只有7到10天，所以是經濟部的數字不一樣，還是你們統計的方式不一樣？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:16:18.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:16:21.583000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我再請同仁去查一下。OK。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:16:23.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:16:33.546000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，你直接查，因為我們可以從會議紀錄當中很清楚看到這樣的資料，請主委查好資料之後，再跟本辦公室做一個很清楚的交代。好。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:16:34.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:07.253000+08:00","text":"另外，就在同一次會議當中，因為我們在2022年當時提出2050淨零碳排的執行路徑的時候，有提到天然氣大概占臺灣整個發電量的百分之五十，在這過程當中有特別提到光電的部分，我們預計2030年光電要達到30GW，那麼主委知道到去年底我們統計數字是多少嗎？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:07.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:09.555000+08:00","text":"好像我們沒有達到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:10.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:26.069000+08:00","text":"主委，我就直接跟你講，我的PPT上面都已經有寫了，大概就是15.58GW，只有一半左右，換句話說，我們到2030年光電的發電量可能也會不夠。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:26.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:38.714000+08:00","text":"於是在這一次會議當中，國發會有人提出來，對於目前農地只有百分之四十可以用來做光電這個部分可能要鬆綁，有確定這樣子嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:38.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:39.695000+08:00","text":"可不可以請主委回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:40.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:50.338000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我再回去查一下那個會議紀錄，但目前來講，農地鬆綁好像還不是一個確定要執行的政策。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:51.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:17:52.698000+08:00","text":"還沒有確定要鬆綁嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:17:53.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:18:03.361000+08:00","text":"可是在那次會議當中提到，農地沒有鬆綁的話，基本上2030年是達不到30GW這個目標的。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:18:05.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:18:23.079000+08:00","text":"我今天問的這幾個問題，我發現主委都要回去再多了解，沒有問題，我們要解決問題，尤其電力就是國力是不容忽略的一個事情，當我們很多經濟成長都押在半導體和AI的時候，你沒有電力，事情是完全沒有辦法做的。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:18:24.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:18:52.145000+08:00","text":"當台電告訴我們從苗栗以北的所有算力中心完全不允許的時候，我們就會發現臺灣的電力是非常緊張的，現在中東有戰事，臺灣光是天然氣的安全存量，經濟部跟國發會講出來的數字就不一樣，這讓我們對於臺灣的能源非常、非常地擔心，請國發會好好去統整一下，然後儘速給本辦公室一個很清楚的說明。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:18:52.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:18:57.268000+08:00","text":"安全存量的部分就是11天，這個應該沒有任何疑義。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:18:57.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:19:04.253000+08:00","text":"可是你們第135次的會議紀錄中很清楚地提到臺灣的安全存量是7到10天，我不知道是誰出錯？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-03-16T10:19:04.253000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T10:19:05.775000+08:00","text":"這部分我們回去查一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-16T10:19:05.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:19:07.197000+08:00","text":"請主委詳細瞭解之後，再跟本辦公室做說明。好。謝謝。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T10:19:07.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-16T10:19:07.698000+08:00","text":"謝謝鄭正鈐委員，請主委先回座。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T10:19:08.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T10:19:17.912286+08:00","text":"下一位質詢的是陳亭妃委員，待會十點半要休息，在主席質詢完之後，我們休息7分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-16T10:19:18.212286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-16T10:19:21.355143+08:00","text":"下一位請陳亭妃委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}