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谢谢周二位我们是不是请何安的我们的陈明珍主委还有我们的经济部的赖次长还有我们台电的许永辉副总谢谢好 请三个机关代表谢谢"},{"start":34.175,"end":62.072,"text":"好谢谢三位那我想受到美伊战争的一些影响大家都非常担心有关于天然气供给的一个压力昨天我在总质询的时候呢经济部长特别保证说在三月四月在调度上是没有问题五月应该也还是OK但是呢因为这个成本会提高但是呢可能这个大概提高是两成这是经济部长所提到的那我想请问次长如果成本提高两成这些会不会反映在我们的电价上面"},{"start":65.157,"end":88.487,"text":"首先跟委員說明我們對於天然氣的調度沒有問題我們現在時間有限我就要問陳主委但是你先告訴我會不會影響到我們電價第一個電價審議我們尊重電價審議委員會的專業的審議事實上行政院也多方的在穩定物價的部分去做努力相關的工作會議所以現在目前還不確定是在電價上面會不會"},{"start":89.207,"end":118.408,"text":"像目前为止还没有办法确定是所以现在目前为止还没有办法确定这个4月5月电价会不会因此做调整这个依照这个月底的电价审议所以说3月底才会知道因为中油目前来说他们过去盈余大概今年盈余转亏转亏为盈大概有80亿但是因为中东战争的方法他们搞不好要因为要自主吸收搞不好连亏这个7年了那台电目前为止我们还是不晓得就是电价有没有因此受到影响好"},{"start":119.108,"end":141.079,"text":"所以3月底我们等审议小组之后才知道电价可不可以受到波动这是你的回应没错吧好来我们接下来问一下我们的陈主委因为目前为止这个河山在运转的计划3月底就会送到这个河安会那工部长就特别提到这个安全检查大概需要一年半到两年那因为我们河山才刚刚停机时间不久"},{"start":141.559,"end":170.942,"text":"而且停机之前都会造一些规定来完成一些税收跟安全检查你是专业你认为需要到一年半到两年吗因为有些专家认为以这样的部分来看的话其实时间可以再缩短一年这就看台电提出的报告是不是很完整很齐全那你自己核安的专业你认为核三是不是要要到这么久有没有可能在2027或者是更早的时间甚至在2026年底因为它才刚停机不久啊"},{"start":172.118,"end":180.342,"text":"这个需要时间来检查一般来说是需要很严格的检查如果台电的准备工作做得很好的话当然时间可以缩短台电准备工作做得怎么样"},{"start":198.55,"end":224.142,"text":"现在还没看到报告三月底来好那我们来看一下一般来说这个台电跟西屋的燃料采购的合约大概在几年内就会失效那一般来说在合约有效前下单的话燃料棒大概在18个月就有办法供应如果你失效之后再来order的话你可能需要等三年那我想请问台电目前你跟西屋的合约还剩下几年"},{"start":226.311,"end":242.666,"text":"目前跟西屋的合約目前都是還是有效的所以有沒有可能在他合約之內就先行來做這樣子的下單目前來講因為我們有優先的選擇全合三場還有兩批所以這一部分其實隨時我如果下單那隨時就是八個月的"},{"start":243.566,"end":261.841,"text":"就有办法嘛所以有机会嘛对不对那核二相对就比较复杂一点因为核二它停机已经一段段时间所以它安全检查需要耗费一些的时间那有没有可能核二也是比照核三的方法分阶段提出运转的文件然后再送运转计划然后再补安全检查的资料会不会跟核三一样"},{"start":263.329,"end":287.291,"text":"呃相關的這個程序其實台電公司都是依照台電都是依照合約然後我都會背起來根據大家來說第一個要核安第二個就是核廢料要有地方第三個要社會共識這三個都是過去2016到現在這三個前提都在我剛在報告裡面有提到實際上就是依據運轉執照第16條之一跟第16條呢依法提出相關的"},{"start":289.332,"end":309.097,"text":"所以核二的部分跟奇異公司沒有這個核燃料的合約所以在國際上的部分他應該是還要再排隊至少等三年以核二目前來看的話應該還是要等三年這應該是確定的嘛對不對第一個我要澄清的他目前的燃料不是向奇異購買目前的燃料是向另外一家公司購買"},{"start":309.397,"end":338.451,"text":"那就是他因为他目前已经没有在合约所以应该照国际的规准应该还在至少等三年这是我们对核二如果万一他再启动的话这是一个问题啊那核废料的这个最终的处置的方法来我们请问谁可以这个经济部应该来回应啊因为你们去年大动作的成立一个这个废弃物的这个班这个专案办公室告诉我们说你们要最处理最终的这个作业啊但目前为止的草案在什么地方已经有任何的一个方式了吗"},{"start":339.071,"end":366.709,"text":"好 去年4月我們成立了這個辦公室之後廣泛的蒐集各國在有關於高階核廢料最終處置不管是法治的...沒關係 所以你到底目前為止草案有沒有現在還在...現在還在持續當中 好所以說呢 因為有一個專案辦公室所以到底什麼時候草案可以拿得出來你們的廣泛的諮詢 還有更看國外的資料到底什麼時候可以給我們一個比較是粗略的方向"},{"start":367.609,"end":372.154,"text":"因為草案嘛這基本上我們要看它現在國際上最新的這個作物的狀況次長我從剛剛問到現在我都還是問不出一個結果來因為永遠都要說起這麼多事實上核廢料的最終處置的這個部分是從以前到現在"},{"start":382.845,"end":407.103,"text":"就是应该做的一个方向现在还在做这个研究研析草案都拿不出来而且最重要是已经有专案办公室了我现在问一下陈主委已经有专案办公室的你们也主动的邀请这些人来做开会根据你们的会议记录当中都是河安卫给予这样的一个建议单方面给予建议那这个专案办公室好像没有给你应对的回应是不是这样子"},{"start":407.623,"end":409.224,"text":"他們已經做了一些法案的準備工作了"},{"start":435.831,"end":445.15,"text":"而且你何阿蔚還替經濟部說話你說不參與專辦是為了避免裁員兼裁判那我就要問你你以前在非核小組的時候你也是裁員兼裁判你怎麼沒有這樣去想"},{"start":446.331,"end":467.92,"text":"主委不被愛的人才真的是第三者真的是所以說我真的是到目前為止我覺得你們真的是已經對於台運的力道也不像以前以前你們還有開立違規的事項然後如果問台電如果你每次收到何安威的違規事項之後有任何的推進或什麼嗎因為何安威還是一個監督的小組"},{"start":468.84,"end":497.374,"text":"以前台電遇到這種狀況的時候呢現在目前為止 河岸會每年向台電開立延宕低放的這個最終處置的計畫的違規事項然後現在好像變成例行公事了你們每次開罰單台電好像也不痛不癢的那現在呢 更是因為有專案辦公室之後你現在也不開罰單還把它列為注意改進事項陳主委 你不覺得河岸會現在已經這麼樣一個監督安全單位已經變成做的這個樣子了你倒沒有任何的意見嗎"},{"start":500.66,"end":524.05,"text":"報告委員 我們之所以將台電公司的違規改促改其實最主要原因還是因為台電公司有持續引入那個成熟技術在這個整個技術的開發作業中所以我們考量這一點才所以你們這樣有督促到台電可以給你們我們剛剛所提到的每一項的一個規範嗎 有嗎你們滿意嗎你們有滿意嗎"},{"start":529.118,"end":548.648,"text":"我們不滿意所以才會開註改要求那以前是違規現在是注意改進這兩個層次是差很多耶反正你不管猜什麼啦基本上核安會如果以這樣的一個態度的話其實各機關其實不會鳥你們的啦好最後一個SM2的部分裡面提報4年10億的這個長期計畫遇到2030至少到2030所以說到實際的商轉預計到什麼時間"},{"start":555.032,"end":566.083,"text":"因為這是全世界的一個趨勢,目前有辦法算出到什麼時間嗎?目前依照西方世界非紅色供應鏈,應該是2030甚至早一兩年有機會"},{"start":576.232,"end":591.765,"text":"提出三转的产品但是因为很多是新型的像Ninscale这种是那你们有没有考虑像很多国家都是跟像美国的这个西屋电器他们其实有一些的方式有没有考虑应该合作然后可以让这个时间提前"},{"start":592.185,"end":620.772,"text":"是 包括文修公司去年半年前跟两个月前都来我们院里跟我们做很详细的讨论他们开发的所以说有一些的合作计划可能也在有有有我们这七月还要去拜访好 因为这已经是一个世界的一个趋势了然后目前来说呢可能这个还是一样SML万一有的话这个选址到底在什么地方有没有事先的规划这可能要让我们国人事先能够来做一个了解然后你们到时候的核管法是用原来的核管法"},{"start":621.112,"end":636.321,"text":"还是要用新的一个方式这也是你们要来做处理的好不好诶主委其实很多目前重新你的专业又重新被看到了请你可以更理直气壮一点该做的该要求的都应该来做好好的这样处理可以吗"},{"start":637.862,"end":652.168,"text":"我现在把你们希望昨天在总咨询的时候还希望把你们从三级变成二级可是你要展现出你的魄力啊我这么给你back up啊你告诉到时候结果你都哈哈都完全遵照我都不晓得该怎么帮你讲话了谢谢委员"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:27:10+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:27:19.662000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:27:19.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:27:29.324000+08:00","text":"請核安會陳明真主委、經濟部賴次長，還有台電許永輝副總，謝謝。","quality":0.269},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T09:27:29.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:27:30.825000+08:00","text":"好，請三個機關代表，謝謝。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:27:44.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:27:44.875000+08:00","text":"謝謝三位。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:27:46.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:27:50.739000+08:00","text":"受到美伊戰爭的一些影響，大家都非常擔心有關天然氣供給的壓力。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:27:51.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:12.052000+08:00","text":"昨天我在總質詢的時候，經濟部長特別保證3、4月在調度上是沒有問題，5月應該也還是OK，但是因為成本會提高，可能大概提高兩成，這是經濟部長所提到的，我想請問次長，如果成本提高兩成，這些會不會反映在我們的電價上面？","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:15.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:18.719000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員說明，我們對於天然氣的調度……","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:19.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:23.841000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，我們現在時間有限，我等一下會問陳主委，但是你先告訴我會不會影響到電價？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:23.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:36.266000+08:00","text":"第一個電價審議，我們尊重電價審議委員會的專業審議，事實上行政院也多方的在穩定物價部分去做努力，相關的工作會議……","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:36.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:37.166000+08:00","text":"所以電價上面現在目前為止還沒有辦法確定？","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:37.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:38.187000+08:00","text":"經濟部也是把物價穩定當作我們重要的工作。","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:38.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:46.132000+08:00","text":"是，所以目前為止還沒有辦法確定4、5月電價會不會因此做調整？","quality":0.36},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:46.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:28:47.933000+08:00","text":"依照這個月底的電價審議會……","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:28:48.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:29:08.187000+08:00","text":"所以說3月底才會知道，因為以中油目前來說，他們今年盈餘轉虧為盈大概有80億，但是因為中東戰爭的關係，他們搞不好因為要自主吸收，搞不好要連虧7年了，那台電目前為止我們還是不曉得，就是電價有沒有因此受到影響。","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:29:08.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:29:14.411000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們等3月底審議小組之後才知道電價會不會受到波動，這是你的回應沒錯吧！好。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:29:14.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:29:39.085000+08:00","text":"接下來問一下陳主委，因為目前為止，核三再運轉計畫3月底就會送到核安會，龔部長就特別提到安全檢查大概需要一年半到兩年，因為我們核三才剛剛停機，時間不久，而且停機之前都會照一些規定來完成歲修跟安全檢查，你是專業，你認為需要一年半到兩年嗎？","quality":0.598},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:29:39.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:29:44.389000+08:00","text":"因為有些專家認為以這樣的部分來看的話，其實時間可以再縮短一年。","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T09:29:45.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:29:49.193000+08:00","text":"這要看台電提出的報告是不是很完整、很齊全。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:29:49.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:00.902000+08:00","text":"那你自己核安的專業，你認為核三是不是要到這麼久，有沒有可能在2027年或者更早的時間，甚至在2026年底，因為它才剛停機不久？","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:02.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:08.121000+08:00","text":"這個需要時間來檢查，一般來說，是需要很嚴格的檢查。天啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:08.121000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:09.121000+08:00","text":"我站在這個地方連問兩個問題都問不到答案，你們每個人都在說要看看什麼……另外一個單位來處理，你們核安會是一個很軸心的部分，你過去就是核安的專家，你認為一定要到一年半到兩年嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:09.121000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:10.121000+08:00","text":"需要這麼久嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:08.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:09.681000+08:00","text":"如果台電的準備工作做得很好的話，當然時間可以縮短。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:09.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:10.142000+08:00","text":"那台電準備工作做得怎麼樣？副總。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:10.142000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:30.811000+08:00","text":"現在還沒看到它的報告，看到的時候，我就比較好……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:30.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:31.491000+08:00","text":"3月底，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:31.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:50.840000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，台電跟西屋的燃料採購合約大概在幾年內就會失效，一般來說，在合約有效期間下單的話，燃料棒大概在18個月就有辦法供應，如果失效之後再來order的話，可能需要等3年。","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:51.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:54.122000+08:00","text":"我想請問台電，目前你們跟西屋的合約還剩下幾年？","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:56.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:30:59.354000+08:00","text":"目前跟西屋的合約都還是有效的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:30:59.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:03.537000+08:00","text":"所以有沒有可能在合約之內就先行來做這樣的下單？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:03.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:12.646000+08:00","text":"目前來講，因為我們有優先的選擇權，核三廠還有兩批，所以這部分其實我們如果下單，隨時就是18個月的……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:13.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:14.147000+08:00","text":"就可以，就是有辦法嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:14.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:15.328000+08:00","text":"所以有機會嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:16.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:30.640000+08:00","text":"但核二相對就比較複雜一點，因為核二停機已經一段時間，所以安全檢查需要耗費一些時間，有沒有可能核二也是比照核三的方法，分階段提出運轉的文件，再送運轉計畫，然後再補安全檢查的資料？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:31.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:31.741000+08:00","text":"會不會跟核三一樣？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:33.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:35.831000+08:00","text":"相關的程序其實台電公司都是依照……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:37.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:39.174000+08:00","text":"好，台電都是依照合約，我都會背了。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:40.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:45.260000+08:00","text":"根據大家的說法，第一個要核安，第二個就是核廢料要有地方，第三個要社會共識，這3個都是……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:45.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:46.260000+08:00","text":"不是、不是、不是。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:46.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:48.523000+08:00","text":"過去2016到現在，這3個前提都在。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:48.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:57.271000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我剛剛在報告裡面有提到，實際上就是依據核子反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法第十六之一及第十六條，依法提出相關的再運轉計畫跟有關的報告……","quality":0.493},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:57.271000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:31:59.332000+08:00","text":"好，再運轉計畫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:31:59.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:07.874000+08:00","text":"所以核二跟奇異公司沒有核燃料的合約，在國際上的部分，它應該還要再排隊，至少等3年。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:08.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:12.795000+08:00","text":"以核二目前來看的話，應該還是要等3年，這應該是確定的，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:12.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:16.196000+08:00","text":"第一個，我要澄清，它目前的燃料不是向GE購買。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:16.196000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:17.196000+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:16.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:19.097000+08:00","text":"目前的燃料是向另外一家公司購買。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:20.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:28.101000+08:00","text":"好，因為它目前已經沒有合約，所以照國際的規準，應該還要再至少等3年，核二如果萬一再啟動的話，這是一個問題。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:29.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:46.230000+08:00","text":"至於核廢料最終處置的方法，經濟部應該來回應，因為你們去年大動作地成立一個廢棄物最終處置專案辦公室，告訴我們你們要處理最終的作業，但目前為止的草案在什麼地方？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:47.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:48.331000+08:00","text":"已經有任何方式了嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:49.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:32:59.278000+08:00","text":"去年4月我們成立了這個辦公室之後，廣泛地蒐集各國有關於高階核廢料最終處置不管是法制的作業或是……","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:32:59.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:02.039000+08:00","text":"沒關係，所以到底目前為止，草案有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:02.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:03.180000+08:00","text":"現在還在徵詢專家意見。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:04.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:05.902000+08:00","text":"現在還在持續當中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:07.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:10.945000+08:00","text":"因為有一個專案辦公室，到底什麼時候草案可以拿得出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:10.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:16.689000+08:00","text":"你們除了廣泛的諮詢，還要看國外的資料，到底什麼時候可以給我們一個比較粗略的方向？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:17.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:17.930000+08:00","text":"因為這是草案。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:18.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:20.652000+08:00","text":"基本上我們要看看現在國際上最新的作業狀況。天啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:20.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:21.393000+08:00","text":"次長，我從剛剛問到現在，都還是問不出一個結果，因為永遠都要蒐集這麼多。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:21.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:41.571000+08:00","text":"事實上，核廢料的最終處置從以前到現在就是應該做的方向，現在還在做研究、研析，草案都拿不出來，而且最重要的是，已經有專案辦公室了。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:41.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:57.083000+08:00","text":"我現在問一下陳主委，已經有專案辦公室了，你們也主動邀請這些人來開會，根據你們的會議紀錄，都是核安會單方面給予建議，這個專案辦公室好像沒有給你應對的回應，是不是這樣子？","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:57.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:58.083000+08:00","text":"無論是室內的乾貯或是室外的乾貯，我們都有相當的進度……","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:58.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:59.083000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我請陳主委，你會不會覺得很委屈？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:59.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:00.083000+08:00","text":"為了你們核安會，會不會覺得很委屈？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:00.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:01.083000+08:00","text":"沒關係，陳主委，你回應一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:01.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:02.083000+08:00","text":"以前在非核小組的時候，還有請你們入場的空間，現在有了專案小組，你們就是單向的回應，是不是這樣子？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:02.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:03.083000+08:00","text":"你難道不會替核安會感到一點委屈嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T09:33:57.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:33:59.203000+08:00","text":"他們已經做一些法案的準備工作了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:25.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:35.030000+08:00","text":"而且你核安會還替經濟部說話，你說不參與專辦，是為了避免球員兼裁判，我就要問你，以前在非核小組的時候，你也是球員兼裁判，你怎麼沒有這樣子講？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:36.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:39.032000+08:00","text":"主委，不被愛的人才真的是第三者。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:39.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:40.173000+08:00","text":"真的是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:41.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:34:55.939000+08:00","text":"我覺得到目前為止你們真的是已經對於台電的力道也不像以前，以前你們還有開立違規的事項，如果問台電每次收到核安會的違規事項之後，有任何的推進或什麼嗎？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:34:55.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:21.331000+08:00","text":"因為核安會還是一個監督的小組，以前台電遇到這種狀況的時候……現在目前為止，核安會每年向台電開立延宕低放最終處置計畫的違規事項，現在已經變成例行公事了，你們每次開罰單，台電好像也不痛不癢了，現在更是因為有專案辦公室之後，你現在也不開罰單，還把它列為注意改進事項。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:21.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:27.374000+08:00","text":"陳主委，核安會這個監督安全單位做成這個樣子，你都沒有任何意見嗎？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:30.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:47.867000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們之所以將台電公司的違規改開注改，其實最主要原因還是因為台電公司有持續引入成熟技術在整個技術開發作業中，所以我們考量這一點，才把狀態做改變。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:48.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:53.269000+08:00","text":"所以你們有督促台電可以給你們剛剛所提到的每一項規範嗎？有嗎？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:53.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:53.489000+08:00","text":"你們滿意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:53.489000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:54.489000+08:00","text":"台電還需要努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:53.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:35:54.050000+08:00","text":"你們有滿意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-03-18T09:35:59.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:02.239000+08:00","text":"我們不滿意，所以才會開注改，要求它變更。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:03.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:06.402000+08:00","text":"以前是違規，現在是注意改進，這兩個層次差很多欸。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:06.402000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:07.402000+08:00","text":"不過兩個都是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:07.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:12.965000+08:00","text":"反正不管採什麼，基本上核安會如果以這樣的態度的話，各機關其實不會鳥你們的啦！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:13.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:18.648000+08:00","text":"最後，SMR的部分提報4年10億的中長程計畫，預計至少會進行到2030年，所以實際的商轉預計到什麼時間？","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:25.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:28.295000+08:00","text":"因為這是全世界的趨勢，目前有辦法算出到什麼時間嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:28.295000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:29.295000+08:00","text":"國研院報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:29.295000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:30.295000+08:00","text":"是，請說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:28.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:36:51.536000+08:00","text":"目前依照西方世界非紅色供應鏈，應該是2030年，甚至早一、兩年有機會提出商轉的產品，但是因為很多是新型的，像NuScale這種是比較……","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:36:52.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:01.745000+08:00","text":"是，你們有沒有考慮很多國家的做法，譬如美國的西屋電器有一些方式，有沒有考慮應該合作，用模組的方式，讓時間提前？","quality":0.408},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:03.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:09.787000+08:00","text":"有，報告委員，西屋公司去年、半年前跟兩個月前都來我們院裡跟我們做很詳細的討論，他們開發的……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:09.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:11.647000+08:00","text":"所以有一些合作計畫可能也在裡面？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:12.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:14.428000+08:00","text":"有，我們7月還要去匹茲堡拜訪他們。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:15.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:35.014000+08:00","text":"好，因為這已經是一個世界的趨勢了，目前SMR萬一有的話，選址到底在什麼地方、有沒有事先的規劃，可能要讓我們國人事先了解，還有到時候是用原來的核管法、還是要用新的方式，也是你們要處理的，好不好？","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:36.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:46.181000+08:00","text":"主委，其實目前你的專業又重新被看到了，請你可以更理直氣壯一點，該做的、該要求的都應該來做好好的處理，可以嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:49.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:37:53.905000+08:00","text":"昨天在總質詢的時候，我甚至還希望把你們從三級變成二級，可是你要展現出你的魄力啊！","quality":0.622},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:37:54.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:38:00.688000+08:00","text":"否則我在這邊做你的backup，結果到時候你卻哈哈兩聲，說「都完全遵照」，我都不曉得該怎麼幫你講話了。","quality":0.511},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T09:38:01.188000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:38:03.473714+08:00","text":"謝謝委員您的關心。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-03-18T09:38:03.773714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:38:05.202286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T09:38:05.502286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:38:07.502286+08:00","text":"謝謝柯志恩委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T09:38:07.802286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:38:10.945143+08:00","text":"接下來請陳培瑜委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}