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我們核廢油解跟社會共識是三大原則我現在要問你說你們在社會共識這一塊做了什麼努力因為核安的話是核安會在審查"},{"start":95.905,"end":104.195,"text":"那合會的話你們要很積極的尋找相關的處置的場域但是社會共識這一塊你們預計用怎樣的步驟去實踐"},{"start":106.138,"end":131.63,"text":"包委員大概這樣就是台電是一個電力的專業單位所以所有的社會溝通其實尤其在核能部分其實應該站在專業的這個部分那專業部分當然就是說我該做的哪一些工作我認為社會有哪些疑慮比如說對於耐震的這個疑慮那我怎樣去把一些大家的疑慮我進一步用專業的角度"},{"start":132.15,"end":155.402,"text":"那你告訴我你用怎樣的專業來角度讓民眾對於耐震的這個部分取得信任跟支持讓專家講話讓專業講話什麼時候開始會做這樣子我們已經在做我們已經在做針對社會上關切的議題包括核廢料的議題包括耐震的議題我們也是召集了國外的專家國內的專家我們用平台的方式呢把社會的疑慮呢讓專家來開口來講話"},{"start":158.323,"end":182.992,"text":"那甚至呢我們如果需要進一步的調查或進一步的一個成立一個專業的副總的意思我明白你的意思就是說這樣子一些相關的對於民眾有疑慮的部分不管是在我們地層的部分結構的部分安全的部分我們會請專家用他們專業的角度來讓民眾能夠理解能夠了解能夠支持那你們已經開始在做你們一直安排怎樣的場次"},{"start":184.698,"end":212.074,"text":"呃基本上來講比如說呃有關於耐震的這一塊呢我們現在也是召集了國內的一些學者專家 國外的專家時間不多齁這樣子許副總我拜託你們齁把你剛才你所說的你們要做的關於各種安全的一些相關的這些跟民眾必須要有溝通的必須要有共識取得的這些你們所安排的場次你們所安排的這些你都做一份資料給我們所有教文委員會的委員"},{"start":213.075,"end":226.296,"text":"好沒問題就是你們要如何取得社會共識這一塊你們如何推進如何做如何落實好嗎好這塊請你們就是做一份詳細的資料給我們提供資料給我們各位委員那我現在"},{"start":228.65,"end":251.529,"text":"這邊我們這個部分請你提供給我資料之後我們再來做討論那接下來要跟您討論是說這個用電的安全竹克在前天有傳出這個超高壓變電所發生爆炸的事故造成很嚴重的公安事件那火勢也很大一直到晚上才完全撲滅台電現在有先釐清說事故發生的主因嗎請問專總好"},{"start":255.83,"end":279.023,"text":"謝謝好 跟委員報告那整個事故發生阻音我們現在還在釐清當中因為整個火場目前檢察官預令不得進入好那我們是在現場我們有這個我們的故障記錄器都還在裡面我們還沒辦法取得那這個部分我們會等到檢察官放行之後我們會盡快的是因為還沒有辦法進到火場裡面去做主要的調查因為新聞報導有說這項工程是針對電壓穩定設備來做進行這個測試"},{"start":284.226,"end":313.906,"text":"那所謂測試應該就不是一個如果是平常的安全檢查或安全測試應該就不會造成有這樣子重大的一個事故發生所以到底什麼地方出問題你們也說目前這裡面的設備是最先進的氣體絕緣開關設備所以發生這樣的事故你們除了說先自己做內部的這些你們有沒有做相關的這個施工安全指引的這個了解說說他有沒有照照照這個SOP在進行的"},{"start":315.647,"end":341.221,"text":"就是說這個本身設備我們在因為是屬於真的是測試階段但是前面的一些單元測試都已經完成都沒有問題那這一次主要是要從變電所那邊加壓過來做系統的一個測試但是我們在測試的階段我們預先都已經做了封控的一個演練所以說我們把整個防護的快速的一個保護都有三段式還有我們把"},{"start":341.781,"end":363.723,"text":"用戶的這個部分跟我們測試的部分是分開所以說才會事情發生之後只有大概0.1秒我們整個故障就排除掉也沒有造成停電因照您現在回答是說該做的安全的防護的措施其實都有做那但是因為現在你們沒有辦法今天到現場實際的去調查原因所以現在問你你也沒有辦法回答說到底是因為什麼樣而造成這樣的事故"},{"start":364.284,"end":374.571,"text":"但是我會希望說這是一個很重大的教訓這個經驗一定要記得就是說我們用地安全其實不只是針對用戶端那其實我們在相關的人員的安全這邊也要落實所以我希望說你們要督促並且很嚴格的落實檢修人員的這個安全指引的規範他們在做相關的這些檢修的時候這些職安訓練我們都要非常的注重包括這些承包商我們也要注意說他們是不是有做過完整的這些職安的訓練"},{"start":394.204,"end":414.566,"text":"好那這個部分呢等你們確定的這個起火這個爆炸的原因之後呢也希望你把相關的資料能夠給我辦公室我們再來討論相關人員這個安全維護到底在哪裡是有落差的好謝謝那許副總請回喔接下來我要請經濟部賴次長跟中油的黃副總"},{"start":423.013,"end":448.209,"text":"接下來本席要關心的是民生的問題針對目前統裝瓦斯價格很溫暖中部的民眾尤其是在我的選區彰化縣的部分統裝瓦斯因為是台塑公司主要供應那統裝瓦斯去年的價格到現在已經漲了三次20公斤的統裝瓦斯漲了將近要100塊那加上我們彰化縣其實是美食小吃遐而知名的我們是美食重鎮"},{"start":448.829,"end":459.694,"text":"那小吃店的成本呢他他們很大的一個部分在這個瓦斯上面他一周至少有三桶以上的這20公斤的瓦斯所以民眾跟店家對這個瓦斯漲價這個部分呢都覺得說為什麼不是應該"},{"start":464.616,"end":464.836,"text":"好 第一個"},{"start":489.844,"end":504.882,"text":"桶酸瓦斯也就是液化石油器基本上我們進口的這個貨量都沒有來自於荷姆斯海峽所影響的地區所以我們認為說在這個部分其實貨源跟貨量第一個是充足的"},{"start":505.646,"end":523.122,"text":"那第二點是你剛剛委員所提到的彰化這個地方的桶裝瓦斯事實上供應商之間因為桶裝瓦斯它是一個自由競爭的一個市場包括台塑跟中油對 所以說是市場機制的關係你們也沒有辦法說去做很大的干預"},{"start":523.943,"end":539.684,"text":"我們大概農運署都有定期的去跟包括說石化業者大概是來傳達說政府希望是穩定物價的一個概念那我們也密切的注意到它產銷之間的一個變化"},{"start":541.847,"end":567.653,"text":"如果是有這些不當的這個存機的這個問題或是調度不應的這個問題我們在應變會議裡面都有掌握這邊本席想建議我們經濟部跟中油要我們跟台塑公司可以再加強溝通一下這個關於漲價的部分我們是不是說在現在真的萬物起漲我們很多原物料都漲價的這個情況之下在瓦斯這一塊是不是可以動漲"},{"start":569.153,"end":590.409,"text":"可以不要再漲那中油公司這邊是不是也來評估我們來加強供應給彰化地區的這個可行性因為台塑公司它是私人的企業我們沒有辦法在價格上就是介入太多但是如果由中油來提供一個比較穩定的一個價格這樣子的瓦斯來提供給彰化的民眾你們這個可行性你們可以評估一下嗎"},{"start":591.71,"end":606.443,"text":"我們的意見我們會帶回去研究不過基本上它的供銷它都有一定的供應鏈還有包括它的契約關係這我們一併來進行評估好 謝謝那次長請回我現在再請一下我們那個河岸會的陳主委"},{"start":613.766,"end":620.991,"text":"主委好 本集在這邊有一些整理了一些核安會陸續針對SMR這個研發所推動的研究計畫那我們核安會呢從112年就開始進行SMR的相關的前期的資訊及管制法的這個法規的彙整那從114年就開始正式啟動SMR的這個先期研究包含爐心動態結構"},{"start":636.701,"end":638.143,"text":"呃 這個請高 高院長回答一下好不好"},{"start":656.56,"end":666.569,"text":"報告委員,這個爭取中明年開始4年的LMR、MMR計畫現在初步國科會科技辦公室核准只有一半,4.8億"},{"start":668.519,"end":688.016,"text":"那是不是有機會爭取到我們原先的目標十億可能還需要再努力所以他是先合一半是那我們也可以開始起步了即便說沒有爭取到完整的十億的經費我們有一半的經費就先起步今年已經有一億的軍會可以開始做一些先行的研究明年是四年一加四年總共五年期的計畫好"},{"start":688.356,"end":714.102,"text":"本期為什麼很關心這個計畫呢因為這個計畫裡面有包含高放射性廢棄物的處理技術也就是說我們高階核廢料的處理這個技術可望在進步那如果說我們整個的計畫有順利的爭取到我們開始來進入這個整個的研究的這個期程開始進入之後呢是不是就是我們可以很快的來協助到我們核電廠來處理這些高階核廢料"},{"start":717.512,"end":728.868,"text":"SMR新的技術有三種反應器第一種是加速器驅動的次臨界反應器叫ADS"},{"start":730.269,"end":750.258,"text":"這個因為還在發展中大概十年內可以發展完成如果這個可以發展完成我們國內大概五千噸的高階核廢棄物預計可以四十二年可以處理完畢不是百分之百就是百分之九十五從數萬年以上可以降到這幾百年的高階核廢棄物但是這個技術還等待商業運轉"},{"start":751.198,"end":765.883,"text":"第二種技術是熔岩式的反應器第三種是鈉能式的快支撐這三種SMR都可以減少至少七成以上的高階核廢棄物說明完畢謝謝您的說明所以其實剛才我有強調過為什麼我非常關心這個計畫是說我們希望有這樣的計畫我們可以爭取到之後我們趕快去研發這樣的技術來協助核電廠來處理這些高階的核廢料如果說核廢有解"},{"start":779.867,"end":794.877,"text":"那我們有社會共識加上河安這個部分我們送出來計畫審核是沒有問題的那我們核電廠運轉才能得到民眾的支持也才能得到民眾的信任所以這個部分我希望說河安會我們相關的研發要加緊腳步請你們更積極好嗎"},{"start":799.06,"end":825.159,"text":"事实上过去多年来核废料的处理技术上也有很大的进步还在继续进步之中我希望以后来有机会把高级核废料转换成中低级核废料这整个问题就会容易解决的很多好 谢谢周委谢谢好 谢谢陈修宝委员的质询请官员回座接下来有请郭玉琴委员"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:00+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:01+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:00.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:00.490000+08:00","text":"我們先請台電許副總經理。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:00.490000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:08.129667+08:00","text":"請台電許副總。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:08.129667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:15.769333+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:15.769333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:23.409000+08:00","text":"副總早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:23.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:34.932000+08:00","text":"台電預計在3月底要提出核電廠的再運轉計畫，剛才核安會陳明真主委也說台電送出來的資料越詳細、越完整，審查的進度就會越順利。是。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:35.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:40.854000+08:00","text":"本席想請教台電是不是會同時進行社會溝通的部分？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:40.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:41.854000+08:00","text":"設備溝通的部分？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:40.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:40.994000+08:00","text":"社會溝通，社會。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:47.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:57:53.636000+08:00","text":"我還是把剛才的話講完，就是大家想知道再運轉計畫到底在做些什麼？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:57:53.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:58:00.477000+08:00","text":"其實再運轉計畫，嚴格來講是一個整備的計畫，整齊的整、備用的備。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:58:01.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:58:13.480000+08:00","text":"我知道，副總，這個我懂，我要講的是，因為去年核三再運轉公投就是沒有通過的，表示社會共識這一塊是需要努力的，當然你們送出計畫給核安會審查，這部分是依你們的步驟在走，但是社會共識這一塊既然是我們對於核安的三個大原則之一，核電安全、核廢有解跟社會共識是三大原則。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:58:13.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:58:14.260000+08:00","text":"我現在要問你們在社會共識這一塊做了什麼努力？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:58:14.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:58:44.195000+08:00","text":"因為核安是核安會在審查，核廢的話，你們要很積極地尋找相關處置場域，但是社會共識這一塊，你們預計用怎樣的步驟去實踐？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:58:46.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:01.725000+08:00","text":"報告委員，台電是一個電力的專業單位，所以所有的社會溝通，尤其在核能部分其實應該站在專業的部分，專業的部分就是我該做哪一些工作？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:01.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:04.066000+08:00","text":"我認為社會有哪些疑慮？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:04.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:11.610000+08:00","text":"比如對於耐震的疑慮，我怎樣把一些大家的疑慮進一步用專業的角度或技術的角度……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:12.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:18.653000+08:00","text":"請告訴我，你用怎樣專業的角度讓民眾對於耐震的部分取得信任跟支持。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:18.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:20.554000+08:00","text":"讓專家講話，讓專業講話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:20.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:21.735000+08:00","text":"什麼時候開始會做這樣子的……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:23.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T09:59:44.185000+08:00","text":"我們已經在做，針對社會上關切的議題，包括核廢料及耐震的議題，我們也召集了國內、外的專家用平臺的方式把社會的疑慮讓專家來開口講話，甚至我們如果需要進一步的調查或進一步成立一個專業的……","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T09:59:44.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:00.111000+08:00","text":"我明白副總的意思是對於民眾有疑慮的相關部分，不管是在地層的部分、結構的部分、安全的部分，你們會請專家用他們專業的角度來讓民眾能夠理解、能夠了解、能夠支持。正確。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:00.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:02.972000+08:00","text":"你們已經開始在做了，你們是安排怎樣的場次？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:04.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:13.423000+08:00","text":"基本上來講，比如說有關於耐震的這一塊，我們現在也召集了國內的一些學者專家，包括國外的專家……","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:14.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:32.074000+08:00","text":"因為時間不多，這樣子好了，許副總，我拜託你們，把你剛才所說的，關於各種安全相關你們必須要跟民眾溝通、必須要取得共識的，你們所安排的場次等等，都做一份資料給我們所有教文委員會的委員。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:33.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:33.676000+08:00","text":"沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:33.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:38.945000+08:00","text":"就是你們要如何取得社會共識這一塊，你們如何推進、如何做、如何落實，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:38.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:40.287000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:40.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:00:53.134000+08:00","text":"這一塊請你們做一份詳細的資料，並提供資料給我們各位委員，這個部分等你提供資料給我之後，我們再來做討論。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:00:53.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:11.509000+08:00","text":"接下來要跟您討論用電的安全，竹科在前天有傳出超高壓變電所發生爆炸的事故，造成很嚴重的工安事件，火勢也很大，一直到晚上才完全撲滅，台電現在有先釐清事故發生的主因嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:11.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:15.830000+08:00","text":"請我們專總。好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張專業總工程師涵曦","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:16.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:33.900000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，整個事故發生的主因我們現在還在釐清當中，因為整個火場目前檢察官諭令不得進入，在現場我們的故障紀錄器都還在裡面，我們還沒辦法取得，這個部分等到檢察官放行之後我們會儘快的……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:34.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:37.802000+08:00","text":"是因為還沒有辦法進到火場裡面去做主要的調查？對。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:38.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:01:55.934000+08:00","text":"因為新聞報導有說，這項工程是針對電壓穩定設備進行測試，如果是平常的安全檢查或安全測試，應該不會造成這樣重大的事故發生，所以到底是什麼地方出問題？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:01:55.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:13.706000+08:00","text":"你們也說這裡面的設備是目前最先進的氣體絕緣開關設備，所以發生這樣的事故，你們有沒有先做相關施工安全指引的了解，就是他有沒有照SOP進行？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"張專業總工程師涵曦","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:16.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:24.312000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個設備本身是屬於測試階段，但是它前面的一些單元測試都已經完成，都沒有問題。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張專業總工程師涵曦","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:25.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:51.451000+08:00","text":"這一次主要是要從變電所那邊加壓過來，做系統的測試，但是在測試的階段，我們預先都已經做了風控的演練，我們整個防護都有三段式的快速保護，還有我們把用戶的部分跟測試的部分分開，所以事情發生之後，大概只用0.1秒我們就把整個故障排除掉，也沒有造成停電……","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:51.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:55.255000+08:00","text":"您現在回答是說該做的安全防護措施其實都有做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張專業總工程師涵曦","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:55.255000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:02:56.255000+08:00","text":"對，我們事前都有做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:02:56.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:03.703000+08:00","text":"但是因為現在你們沒有辦法進入到現場實際去調查原因，所以現在問你，你也沒有辦法回答到底是因為什麼樣而造成這樣的事故。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:04.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:14.571000+08:00","text":"但是我會希望，這是一個很重大的教訓，今天一定要記得，用電安全其實不只是針對用戶端，相關人員安全也要落實，所以我希望你們要督促並且很嚴格的落實檢修人員的安全指引規範，他們在做相關檢修的時候，這些職安訓練你們都要非常的注重，包括這些承包商，你們也要注意他們是不是有做過完整的職安訓練。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:34.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:49.861000+08:00","text":"這個部分等你們確定爆炸原因之後，也希望你能夠把相關的資料給我辦公室，我們再來討論相關人員的安全維護到底在哪裡是有落差的，謝謝。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:50.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:50.561000+08:00","text":"許副總請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:51.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:54.566000+08:00","text":"接下來，我要請經濟部賴次長跟中油黃副總。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:54.566000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:03:58.789500+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:03:58.789500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:04:03.013000+08:00","text":"次長早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:04:03.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:04:39.334000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要關心的是民生的問題，針對目前桶裝瓦斯的價格很紊亂，中部的民眾，尤其是在我的選區彰化縣的部分，桶裝瓦斯因為主要是由台塑公司供應，桶裝瓦斯的價格從去年到現在已經漲了三次，20公斤的桶裝瓦斯漲了將近100塊，加上我們彰化縣的美食小吃遐邇聞名，我們是美食重鎮，小吃店的成本有很大的部分在瓦斯上面，它一週至少要用3桶以上20公斤的瓦斯，所以民眾跟店家對於瓦斯漲價的部分都覺得，政府不是有在控制價格，針對這些相關的民生問題政府不是應該要介入嗎？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:04:39.334000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:04:54.589000+08:00","text":"為什麼還會一直漲？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:04:54.589000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:09.844000+08:00","text":"因為台塑公司是私人企業，再加上市場機制的問題，所以彰化縣的民眾就一直在承受瓦斯漲價的壓力，我想請教次長，這個部分你們可以提供什麼樣的協助？","quality":0.094},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:09.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:37.777000+08:00","text":"桶裝瓦斯也就是液化石油氣，基本上我們進口的貨量都沒有來自於荷姆茲海峽所影響的地區，所以我們認為，第一點，這個部分的貨源跟貨量是充足的，第二點，剛剛委員所提到彰化這個地方的桶裝瓦斯，事實上，供應商之間，因為桶裝瓦斯是一個自由競爭的市場，包括有台塑跟中油，中油公司已經……","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:38.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:05:43.122000+08:00","text":"所以我有說是市場機制的關係，你們也沒有辦法去做很大的干預。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:05:43.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:10.949000+08:00","text":"我們能源署都有定期去跟石化業者傳達政府希望穩定物價的概念，我們也密切注意到它產銷之間的變化，若是有不當囤積的問題或是調度不及的問題，我們在應變會議裡面都有掌握。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:11.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:19.471000+08:00","text":"本席想建議經濟部跟中油，跟台塑公司可以再加強溝通一下關於漲價的部分啦！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:20.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:30.234000+08:00","text":"在現在真的萬物齊漲，很多原物料都漲價的情況之下，在瓦斯這一塊是不是可以凍漲、可以不要再漲？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:30.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:35.538000+08:00","text":"中油公司是不是也來評估加強供應給彰化地區的可行性？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:36.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:06:50.409000+08:00","text":"因為台塑公司是私人的企業，我們沒有辦法在價格上介入太多，但是如果由中油來提供一個價格比較穩定的瓦斯給彰化的民眾，這個可行性你們可以評估一下嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:06:51.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:00.458000+08:00","text":"委員的意見我們會帶回去研究，不過基本上，它的供銷都有一定的供應鏈，還有包括它的契約關係，這我們一併來進行評估。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:01.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:03.480000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，次長請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:03.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:14.026000+08:00","text":"我現在再請一下核安會陳主委，主委好。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:14.026000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:15.026000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:14.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:20.991000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊有整理了一些核安會陸續針對SMR研發所推動的研究計畫，核安會從112年就開始進行SMR前期相關的資訊蒐集及管制法規彙整，從114年就開始正式啟動SMR的先期研究，包含爐心動態、結構、隔震系統評估，還有現在你們也正在爭取116到119年長期的SMR研發計畫，總經費大概需要10億，我想請教主委，這個研究經費有沒有確定爭取成功了？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:36.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:07:38.063000+08:00","text":"這個請高院長回答一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T10:07:56.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:12.983000+08:00","text":"報告委員，爭取中，明年開始四年的SMR、MMR計畫現在初步國科會科技辦公室核准只有一半4.8億，是不是有機會爭取到我們原先的目標10億，可能還需要再努力。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:13.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:14.704000+08:00","text":"所以它是先核一半？是。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:15.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:20.810000+08:00","text":"那你們也可以開始起步了，即便沒有爭取到完整10億的經費，你們有一半的經費是不是就先起步？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:20.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:27.996000+08:00","text":"今年已經有1億的經費可以開始做一些先期的研究，明年是一年加四年，總共五年期的計畫。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:28.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:30.176000+08:00","text":"本席為什麼很關心這個計畫？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:30.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:08:54.082000+08:00","text":"因為這個計畫裡面有包含高放射性廢棄物的處理技術，也就是說，我們高階核廢料的處理技術可望再進步，如果整個計畫有順利的爭取到，開始進入整個研究的期程之後，是不是就可以很快的協助核電廠處理這些高階核廢料？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T10:08:57.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:09:30.258000+08:00","text":"SMR新的技術有三種反應器，第一種是加速器驅動的次臨界反應器（ADS），這個因為還在發展中，大概十年內可以發展完成，如果這個可以發展完成，我們國內大概5,000噸的高階核廢棄物預計42年可以處理完畢，不是百分之百就是百分之九十五，從數萬年以上可以降到幾百年的高階核廢棄物，但是這個技術還等待商業運轉。","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-03-18T10:09:31.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:09:40.541000+08:00","text":"第二種技術是熔鹽式的反應器，第三種是鈉冷式的快中子反應器，這三種SMR都可以減少至少七成以上的高階核廢棄物，說明完畢。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:09:40.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:10.734000+08:00","text":"謝謝您的說明，所以剛才我有強調過為什麼我非常關心這個計畫，我們希望有這樣的計畫，你們爭取到之後可以趕快去研發這樣的技術，來協助核電廠處理這些高階的核廢料，如果核廢有解，我們有社會共識，加上核安部分所送出來的計畫在審核上是沒有問題的，如此核電廠運轉才能得到民眾的支持，也才能得到民眾的信任。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:11.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:14.877000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，我希望核安會對相關的研發要加緊腳步，請你們更積極，好嗎？好。謝謝。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:19.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:36.192000+08:00","text":"事實上，過去多年來核廢料的處理在技術上也有很大的進步，還在繼續進步之中，我希望以後未來有機會把高階核廢料可以轉換成中低階核廢料，這整個問題就會容易解決很多。","quality":0.575},{"speaker":"陳委員秀寳","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:36.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:37.533000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主委。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:40.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:42.297000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳秀寳委員的質詢，請官員回座。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:10:42.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:10:45.079000+08:00","text":"接下來有請郭昱晴委員。","quality":0.5}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}