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之後都是會一直動長"},{"start":272.418,"end":289.837,"text":"阿之後我們在中東戰事的期間都會中漲在亞營最低價之下我們政府還吸收了百分之六十剛剛我就講了我一開始的問題我就講到這件事我是問你之後嘛是不是還會一直動長下去 平易物價是不是"},{"start":290.99,"end":315.631,"text":"我們要密切注意戰事的一個變化所以不一定所以不一定這個油價的變動太快反正就是說你現在吸收了你現在吸收了33億但接下來你會看狀況會看狀況但是你會做好準備對會盡量不要讓物價上漲對吧我們盡量控制在物價那另外就是台電部分台電因為去年已經轉虧為盈了但是中油持續虧損那台電"},{"start":317.512,"end":332.97,"text":"有一個部分轉擴會員營是我沒有看到資料啦好像中油賣給台電就是發電用用油實際上它的價格有稍微往下那如果說中油現在自己也都開始虧損了那是不是還是會用過去的方式在支持台電會嗎"},{"start":334.264,"end":351.289,"text":"其實中油主要賣給台電的是發電的用氣不是用油那天然氣的期價都有一個公式每個月會公告每個月公告的期程就會依照日本韓國JKM的指標來去訂定因為現在國際上面天然氣的價格也變高"},{"start":358.231,"end":383.379,"text":"所以中油如果把天然氣賣給台電那台電的成本也變高嘛所以那電價會不會上漲那月底的時候要開電價審議委員會嘛那這個部分大概的方向是怎樣這個部分我們在工作會議裡面會有進行敏感性的分析那我們也是會跟相關的委員陳述我們現在政府對於穩定物價的一個工作的重點的一個努力"},{"start":386.023,"end":403.638,"text":"好 再來喔現在剛剛大家討論到的河山廠到底要不要研議啊台電要送那個再運轉計畫其實為什麼會這樣 很簡單嘛就是大家很擔心說用電會不會韌性不夠嘛台灣會不會缺電嘛關鍵應該是這件事情啦那昨天也有外媒蓬勃報導啊"},{"start":404.679,"end":422.028,"text":"他說雖然台積電和政府官員一再保證局勢穩定可是台灣發電最大的隱患就是台灣對於液態天然氣異常的高度依賴這是彭博講的你怎麼能說外媒是中共同路人呢然後呢如果說電力中斷就會影響台積電"},{"start":424.349,"end":453.288,"text":"我覺得剛剛我也聽到民黨的委員剛剛好像是郭玉琴吧我覺得還在那邊帶風箱要抹黑啊說前面的國民黨的委員一直在問提出再運轉計畫到底什麼時候河安會可以核定就是好像不顧河安要趕快讓他通過怎麼河安很重要啊國民黨都不重視河安沒有人不重視河安從頭到尾沒有人不重視河安只是在確保河安OK的情況之下台電怎麼樣可以讓河山繼續運轉"},{"start":454.529,"end":483.404,"text":"因為補足電力假設不夠的話它有一個比較穩定的發電基礎是這樣那當時我記得我們之前在也是在教育文化委員會修核安法其實核安法我相信那個主管機關核安會主委可以慢慢點擊到台上來主委很清楚嘛核安會核管法的修法只是讓核電廠研議法規鬆綁因為以前規定如果核電廠要研議必須要在停役之前就提出申請"},{"start":484.454,"end":511.269,"text":"那來不及了嘛所以我們把法規鬆綁讓他庭議之後也可以提出申請只是這樣而已但至於說要不要申請要不要合可那當然是政府自己可以決定啊台電可以決定要不要提債運轉計畫啊河安會可以根據河安來判定他有沒有符合河安的需求然後來決定要或不要這個都是政府可以決定的啊怎麼會好像變成在野黨不顧河安硬要什麼河山廠研議怎麼會這樣亂講呢"},{"start":512.89,"end":541.259,"text":"然後現在台電已經提出再運轉計畫了嘛這個台電請問一下你們現在已經提出再運轉計畫對吧還沒有3月底準備提出嘛有兩項嘛一個是營運計畫嘛能不能再營運第二個是老化分析就是河岸的部分嘛安全的部分老化分析還沒有現在目前提出的是你們到時候一定會提這兩個嘛對吧就是就算要再運轉也會提這兩個嘛對 檢測完以後那代表說台電自己也想要河山研議啊"},{"start":542.159,"end":557.642,"text":"如果台電沒有要核酸研議的話你提這兩幹嘛應該是這樣講就是說 占益轉計畫它實際上是一個整備計畫它實際上是有三個部分一個是組織人力的狀態第二個大概設備的維護的狀態第三個大概就是以前已經是一個"},{"start":558.844,"end":585.825,"text":"營運的文件我怎樣去把他帶回來文件準備的但是因為你們做這個動作然後接下來河岸會又要審查可見政府現在是朝向看看河山廠能不能演繹的方向去做嘛應該這樣講否則你就不用做這個事情了啊應該是這樣講對不對我台電公司我必須要知道我現在對嘛我現在這個反應爐我跟你講如果說按照之前非核家園的立場的話你這個事情你都不用做嘛你現在做這件事情就是想說欸看看"},{"start":586.645,"end":611.604,"text":"會不會在核安OK的情況之下又可以營運又不會影響安全我們核三有沒有演繹的機會嘛你現在就在做這個事情嘛可是你知道嗎你們台電做這個動作民進黨的立委可能會罵你們喔因為我們那時候在修核管法的時候那個時候好像有一個什麼張雅玲委員啊就說藍白修核管法就是為中國攻台開後門我不太懂核電廠演繹到底跟中國攻台什麼關係啊范雲講說核電重啟有國安風險"},{"start":616.801,"end":639.82,"text":"結果接下來很可能台電都會變成中共同路人所以我在這邊建議你看連執政黨的立法委員都認為核三或甚至之後核二如果把核廢的乾除的問題處理好之後他們都認為說這個核安問題很可怕 中共同路人所以台電跟核安會要做一件事情就是你們要加強跟社會的溝通"},{"start":641.061,"end":655.382,"text":"我看到政府一直講核電研議或之後的新式核能有三個條件嘛前提下才會重啟或者是使用新式核能三條第一個是核安確保第二個就是處理核廢料的問題第三就是社會共識"},{"start":656.499,"end":672.977,"text":"那社會怎麼樣有共識社會共識就是你要告訴大家比如到時候核安會你看完台電的報告之後你看完核安沒問題你就要大肆宣導核安沒問題大家放心社會才有共識嘛所以第三個前提是伴隨著第一跟第二嘛"},{"start":673.758,"end":693.622,"text":"還有大家對之前一直恐核廢料每次以前只要討論到舊式論事核電的議題就會有人在那邊講那些情緒性的語言什麼核廢料放你家 核廢料放你家所以台電你現在如果你要提那個再運轉計畫我相信有很多像之前的人就會來攻擊你要不然核廢料放你家核廢料放台電總之你家"},{"start":694.222,"end":721.651,"text":"這種無法就事論事的問題那你們就要去跟大家講核廢現在要怎麼處理現在是核二核三又有乾式儲存槽有一些濕式水池裡面的人要幫忙移出來放乾式儲存槽乾式儲存槽放在裡面安不安全還有就是要確保那乾式儲存槽或室外的室內的你是要把核廢料放在那邊一輩子嗎還是實際上台電現在也要去找一個終極儲存廠運用現代科技或是用什麼方法"},{"start":722.051,"end":749.747,"text":"可以讓核廢料做最有效的處理這個都是大家要加強社會溝通的才會有社會共識啦所以其實我個人是樂見政府髮夾彎啦就是說之前是一直把核講到好像你只要主張核電你就中共同路人然後就怎麼樣怎麼樣但至少你們願意提出再運轉計畫這是往好的方向但是還是很多人會用那種負面的東西來做溝通那你們台電 核安會有沒有加強社會溝通有沒有"},{"start":751.232,"end":772.728,"text":"其實針對核廢料處理剛才委員講那些東西委員都有清楚抓到實際的台電目前處理的狀況表示台電目前的資訊有關於乾式儲存或是核廢料處理的這一塊其實這樣資訊實際上都是不停的在揭露的我希望能夠再加強好不好再加強好不好那核安會勒核安會"},{"start":774.375,"end":797.489,"text":"對於這申請我們會有好幾次說明會在地跟在地的居民做說明會還有所有資料我們都會上網譬如說他們在民主黨計畫台電在民主黨計畫我們會把上網然後我們審查意見也會上網台電回覆也會上網民眾也可以在網路上提出意見好 那請問一下主委"},{"start":800.291,"end":825.63,"text":"那河山如果最後經過審查都願意再運轉的話那會不會為中國 像民進黨立委講的這就是為中國攻台開後門你覺得會不會台電你覺得會嗎 你是幫中國攻台開後門嗎我是做技術專業的 國安的議題不是我關切的那你覺得會不會有攻台後門 你不知道所以你覺得那個立委講的有道理"},{"start":826.493,"end":848.656,"text":"我們只管核能安全對 這個要問國安會 國安會來評估一下 到底核三嚴疫所以以後如果要再運轉的話 可能召委要請國安會一起來大家才能夠做更完整的討論如果你們認為沒問題 加強社會溝通 才會有社會共識 好不好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:17.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:21.741000+08:00","text":"麻煩請經濟部，還有台電。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:21.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:24.203000+08:00","text":"經濟部、台電之機關代表請上質詢台，謝謝。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:24.203000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:31.809000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:31.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:31.809000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:32.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:41.120000+08:00","text":"中東戰事延續這麼多天，而且也看不出來到底什麼時候會結束，所以大家都非常關心的就是物價。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:41.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:55.172000+08:00","text":"我先來問一下油價的問題，因為一開始中東戰事剛發生的時候，當時本來中油說要漲3塊錢，一開始是這樣講的，結果後來又說中油吸收六成，只漲了1.5元。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:22:57.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:22:58.713000+08:00","text":"為什麼會出現這樣的轉圜？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:00.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:05.694000+08:00","text":"這樣子變來變去會讓大家覺得，政府到底有沒有做好準備？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:05.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:12.195000+08:00","text":"中油的油價都是在周末正式發布新聞稿、公布，這是第一個。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:12.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:24.405000+08:00","text":"第二個，中東戰事起的時候，事實上量足價穩一直是我們工作的目標，那世界各國的油價波動都非常激烈……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:24.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:26.846000+08:00","text":"不是，我是說……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:26.846000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:27.846000+08:00","text":"行政院也已經……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:26.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:32.748000+08:00","text":"等一下，我不是說不應該吸收，我的問題是為什麼一開始3元，後來變1.5元？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:33.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:40.670000+08:00","text":"就是政府釋放出訊息我覺得一開始就要規劃，而不是這樣子一直朝令夕改，大家也會覺得很怪。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:41.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:51.879000+08:00","text":"再來，3月16號，因為那個時候中油還是一樣，由於平抑物價的關係，所以吸收了9.5元，兩週就吸收了十幾塊錢。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:52.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:23:57.103000+08:00","text":"現在大家想要問、想要了解的是，第一個，中油這兩週到底虧損了多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:23:57.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:02.326000+08:00","text":"第二個，中油到底準備了多少錢要平抑物價？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:02.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:12.391000+08:00","text":"因為除了在銷售這部分他有吸收之外，其實他去國際上搶天然氣也是有付出比較高的成本，所以目前中油這邊的規劃是什麼？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:14.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:17.904000+08:00","text":"第一個，工作的目標，先把我們需要的貨氣備足。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:18.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:28.356000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，因為調足這些貨氣確實是需要金額的，中油公司不管是從包括現金流量的控制，包括投資性資產的一個……","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:28.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:29.157000+08:00","text":"回答問題，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:29.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:32.921000+08:00","text":"請回答問題，他到底準備了多少，還可以撐多久？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:34.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:38.102000+08:00","text":"因為他這兩週就已經吸收了，光是賣油品就吸收十幾塊了。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:38.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:41.624000+08:00","text":"另外就是去國際上面搶天然氣，成本也增加。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:42.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:46.928000+08:00","text":"我們不但是3月份、4月份都已經調足了貨氣，我剛剛也清楚說了。","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:46.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:48.769000+08:00","text":"我不是說調足貨氣。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:49.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:50.730000+08:00","text":"次長，你來備詢可不可以聽清楚問題？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:51.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:52.371000+08:00","text":"老是答非所問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:24:52.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:24:59.456000+08:00","text":"我不是質疑你們有沒有備足貨品，我是在問吸收這個價錢，你到底準備多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:00.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:01.397000+08:00","text":"準備虧損多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:02.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:03.639000+08:00","text":"後面的因應之道是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:04.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:09.661000+08:00","text":"是針對價錢的部分，不是針對到底你有沒有補足貨源，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:09.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:14.563000+08:00","text":"因為我們的質詢時間都有限，不要一直答非所問。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:14.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:21.845000+08:00","text":"第一個，我有錢，我才能買得到貨氣，這個是跟委員說明的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:21.845000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:22.845000+08:00","text":"第二個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:22.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:27.087000+08:00","text":"我有錢，我才能買得到……你知道你自己在講什麼嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:27.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:28.908000+08:00","text":"你要不要先重複一下我的問題，我的問題是什麼？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:30.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:33.622000+08:00","text":"你的問題是，中油到底可以撐多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:34.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:37.189000+08:00","text":"他現在一直虧損，兩週到底虧損了多少？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:38.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:45.736000+08:00","text":"現在在整體的價格上面，差不多33億左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:46.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:25:49.538000+08:00","text":"兩週大概虧損33億，接下來還撐得下去嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:25:49.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:01.367000+08:00","text":"如果中東戰事一直延續下去，而且油價一定是越來越高，另外你還要去現貨市場搶天然氣，那有沒有繼續要維持下去、維持這樣的凍漲油價，有沒有嘛？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:02.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:09.536000+08:00","text":"我們協助他做資金的籌運之外，包括他的投資計畫，這個部分經濟部也……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:10.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:11.018000+08:00","text":"投資計畫？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:11.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:12.539000+08:00","text":"誰在跟你講投資計畫！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:12.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:14.662000+08:00","text":"不要一直答非所問，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:14.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:18.927000+08:00","text":"這個是大家關心的議題，一直答非所問！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:18.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:21.329000+08:00","text":"我剛剛都好聲好氣跟你講，為什麼你要這樣子啊？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:21.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:25.992000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為委員，中油公司的話，我剛剛講的投資計畫包括他的資本支出……","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:25.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:32.761000+08:00","text":"當然平抑物價很重要，我們也都支持你平抑物價，但是大家也很怕、很擔心有沒有做好準備。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:34.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:34.984000+08:00","text":"這個當然有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:35.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:36.627000+08:00","text":"有，所以就是……對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:37.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:38.189000+08:00","text":"之後都是會一直凍漲？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:39.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:42.782000+08:00","text":"之後……我們在中東戰事期間……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:42.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:44.103000+08:00","text":"都會凍漲？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:44.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:47.147000+08:00","text":"在亞鄰最低價之下，我們政府還吸收了60%，這是我們可以提供……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:49.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:53.273000+08:00","text":"不是，剛剛我就講了，我一開始的問題就講到這件事情，我是問你之後嘛！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:54.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:55.736000+08:00","text":"是不是還會一直凍漲下去？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:55.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:56.817000+08:00","text":"平抑物價，是不是？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:57.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:26:59.631000+08:00","text":"我們要密切注意戰事的變化。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:26:59.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:00.012000+08:00","text":"所以不一定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:01.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:02.774000+08:00","text":"油價的變動太快了，我們每天查了好多次，變動地非常快。","quality":0.304},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:03.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:12.502000+08:00","text":"反正就是，你現在吸收了33億，接下來你會看狀況，但是你會做好準備？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:12.502000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:13.502000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:12.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:14.444000+08:00","text":"會儘量不要讓物價上漲，對吧？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:14.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:16.846000+08:00","text":"我們儘量控制在物價……好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:17.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:22.410000+08:00","text":"另外就是台電的部分，因為台電去年已經轉虧為盈了，但是中油持續虧損。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:22.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:32.241000+08:00","text":"台電有一個部分轉虧為盈的是，我沒有看到資料，好像中油賣給台電的，就是發電用油，實際上它的價格有稍微往下。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:33.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:39.970000+08:00","text":"如果中油現在自己也都開始虧損了，那是不是還會用過去的方式在支持台電，會嗎？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:41.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:46.526000+08:00","text":"其實中油主要賣給台電的是發電用氣，不是用油。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:46.526000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:47.526000+08:00","text":"一樣嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:47.526000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:48.526000+08:00","text":"對，用氣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:47.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:48.366000+08:00","text":"那天然氣的這個……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:48.366000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:49.827000+08:00","text":"用氣，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:49.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:52.047000+08:00","text":"都有一個公式，每個月會公告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:53.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:56.989000+08:00","text":"公告的期程就會依照日本、韓國所謂的JKM指標去訂定那個……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:57.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:27:57.029000+08:00","text":"因為現在國際上面……公式。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:27:57.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:28:11.713000+08:00","text":"我現在的問題就是，國際上面天然氣的價格也變高，中油如果把天然氣賣給台電，那台電的成本也變高，所以電價會不會上漲？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:28:11.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:28:18.095000+08:00","text":"月底的時候要開電價審議委員會，這個部分大概的方向是怎樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-03-18T10:28:18.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:28:30.359000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們在工作會議裡面，會進行敏感性分析，我們也會跟相關的委員陳述現在政府對於穩定物價工作重點的努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:28:33.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:28:41.951000+08:00","text":"好……再來，剛剛大家討論到了核三廠到底要不要延役，台電要送再運轉計畫，其實為什麼會這樣？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:28:41.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:28:47.856000+08:00","text":"很簡單，就是大家很擔心用電會不會韌性不夠、臺灣會不會缺電，關鍵應該是這件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:28:48.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:29:09.028000+08:00","text":"昨天外媒彭博也報導，他說雖然台積電和政府官員一再保證局勢穩定，可是臺灣發電最大的隱患就是，臺灣對於液態天然氣異常地高度依賴，這是彭博講的，你總不能說外媒是中共同路人，然後如果說電力中斷就會影響台積電。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:29:12.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:29:14.571000+08:00","text":"剛剛我也聽到民進黨的委員，好像是郭昱晴嘛！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:29:15.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:29:25.178000+08:00","text":"我覺得他還在那邊帶風向要抹黑，說前面的國民黨委員一直在問，提出再運轉計畫，到底什麼時候核安會可以核定？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:29:25.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:29:30.922000+08:00","text":"就是好像不顧核安要趕快讓它通過，什麼核安很重要，國民黨都不重視核安。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:29:31.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:29:46.972000+08:00","text":"沒有人不重視核安，從頭到尾沒有人不重視核安，只是在確保核安OK的情況之下，台電怎麼樣可以讓核三繼續運轉去補足電力，假設不夠的話他有一個比較穩定的發電基礎，是這樣。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:29:47.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:30:38.249000+08:00","text":"當時，我記得我們之前也是在教育及文化委員會修核安法，其實核安法我相信主管機關核安會……主委，麻煩請你到臺上來，主委很清楚嘛，核安會核管法的修法，只是讓核電廠延役法規鬆綁，因為以前規定如果核電廠要延役，必須要在停役之前就提出申請，那來不及了嘛，所以我們把法規鬆綁，讓它停役之後也可以提出申請，只是這樣而已，至於說要不要申請，要不要核可，那當然是政府自己可以決定啊，台電可以決定要不要提再運轉計畫啊，核安會可以根據核安來判定它有沒有符合核安的需求，然後來決定要或不要，這個都是政府可以決定的啊，怎麼會好像變成在野黨不顧核安，硬要什麼核三廠延役，怎麼會這樣亂講呢？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:30:41.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:30:47.252000+08:00","text":"現在台電已經提出再運轉計畫了嘛，請問一下台電，你們現在已經提出再運轉計畫，對吧？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:30:48.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:30:49.793000+08:00","text":"還沒有，3月底。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:30:50.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:30:51.093000+08:00","text":"3月底準備提出嘛。是。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:30:51.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:30:57.736000+08:00","text":"有兩項嘛，一個是營運計畫，能不能再營運，第二個是老化分析，就是核安的部分嘛，安全的部分。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:30:58.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:00.036000+08:00","text":"老化分析還沒有，現在目前提出的是再運轉整備計畫。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:00.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:03.057000+08:00","text":"你們到時候一定會提這兩個嘛，對吧？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:03.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:04.478000+08:00","text":"就算要再運轉，也會提這兩個嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:04.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:04.978000+08:00","text":"是，檢測完以後。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:06.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:08.239000+08:00","text":"這代表台電自己也想要核三延役啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:09.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:11.523000+08:00","text":"如果台電沒有要核三延役的話，你提這兩個幹嘛？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:12.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:28.305000+08:00","text":"應該是這樣講，再運轉計畫實際上是一個整備計畫，它實際上是有三個部分，一個是主執能力的狀態，第二個大概是設備是維護的狀態，第三個大概就是，以前已經是一個營運的文件，我怎樣去把它帶回來，就是文件的整備……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:28.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:37.372000+08:00","text":"但是因為你們做這個動作，然後接下來核安會又要審查，可見政府現在是朝向看看核三廠能不能延役的方向去做嘛。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:38.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:38.113000+08:00","text":"應該這樣講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:38.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:39.834000+08:00","text":"否則你就不用做這個事情啊，對不對？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:40.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:31:45.219000+08:00","text":"不是，應該是這樣講，台電公司我必須要知道，我現在對於反應爐這些設備的安全系統，目前的狀態是怎麼樣。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:31:45.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:32:01.111000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，如果說按照之前非核家園立場的話，這個事情你都不用做嘛，你現在做這件事情，就是想說看看會不會在核安OK的情況之下，又可以營運，又不會影響安全，看看核三有沒有延役的機會，你現在就是在做這個事情嘛。是。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:32:01.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:32:02.492000+08:00","text":"可是你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:32:02.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:32:26.784000+08:00","text":"你們台電做這個動作，民進黨的立委可能會罵你們哦，因為那時候我們在修核管法的時候，那個時候好像有一個什麼張雅琳委員說「藍白修核管法就是為中國攻臺開後門」，我不太懂核電廠延役到底跟中國攻臺什麼關係，范雲講說核電重啟有國安風險，結果接下來很可能台電都會變成中共同路人。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:32:27.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:32:46.800000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊建議，你看連執政黨的立法委員都認為核三，或甚至之後核二如果把核廢乾貯的問題處理好之後，他們都認為說這個是國安問題，很可怕，中共同路人，所以台電跟核安會要做一件事情，就是你們要加強跟社會的溝通。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:32:48.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:33:02.382000+08:00","text":"我看到政府一直講核電延役，或之後的新式核能有三個條件嘛，三個前提下才會重啟或者是使用新式核能，第一個是核安確保；第二個就是處理核廢料的問題；第三就是社會共識。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:33:03.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:33:05.581000+08:00","text":"那社會怎麼樣有共識？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:33:05.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:33:19.957000+08:00","text":"社會共識就是你要告訴大家，比如說到時候核安會看完台電的報告之後，你認為核安沒問題，你就要大肆宣導「核安沒問題，大家放心」，社會才有共識嘛，所以第三個前提是伴隨著第一跟第二嘛。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:33:20.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:33:55.347000+08:00","text":"還有大家之前一直恐核廢料，每次以前只要討論到，就事論事核電的議題，就會有人在那邊講那些情緒性的語言，什麼核廢料放你家、核廢料放你家，所以台電現在如果要提再運轉計畫，我相信有很多像之前的人就會來攻擊你，說「要不然核廢料放你家，核廢料放台電總經理家」，這種無法就事論事的問題，那你們就要去跟大家講核廢現在要怎麼處理，現在是核二，核三也有乾式貯存槽，有一些溼式，在水池裡面的要把它移出來放乾式貯存槽，乾式貯存槽放在裡面安不安全？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:33:56.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:02.869000+08:00","text":"還有就是要確保乾式貯存槽，或室外、室內的，你是要把核核廢料放在那邊一輩子嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:02.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:14.954000+08:00","text":"還是實際上台電現在也要去找一個終極貯存場，運用現代科技，或是用什麼方法可以讓核廢料做最有效的處理，這個都是大家要加強社會溝通的，才會有社會共識啦。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:16.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:36.126000+08:00","text":"其實我個人是樂見政府髮夾彎，之前是一直把核講到好像你只要主張核電，你就是中共同路人，然後就怎麼樣、怎麼樣，但至少你們願意提出再運轉計畫，這是往好的方向，但是還是有很多人會用那種負面的東西來做溝通，你們台電、核安會有沒有加強社會溝通？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:36.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:36.727000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:38.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:55.184000+08:00","text":"其實針對核廢料的處理，剛才委員講的那些東西，委員都有清楚抓到實際的、台電目前處理的狀況，表示台電目前的資訊有關於乾式貯存或是核廢料處理的這一塊，其實就是讓資訊不停地在揭露。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:55.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:57.646000+08:00","text":"我希望能夠再加強，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:57.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:58.667000+08:00","text":"再加強，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:34:58.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:34:59.287000+08:00","text":"那核安會呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:01.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:23.429000+08:00","text":"對於這項申請，我們會有好幾次說明會，針對在地居民舉行說明會，還有所有資料我們都會上網，包括台電再運轉計畫，我們會把它上網，然後我們的審查意見也會上網，台電回復也會上網，民眾也可以在網路上提出意見，我們也會進行說明。","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:23.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:37.419000+08:00","text":"好，請問一下主委，核三如果最後經過審查都願意再運轉的話，那會不會像民進黨立委講的，這就是為中國攻臺開後門？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:37.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:40.461000+08:00","text":"你覺得會不會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:40.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:41.241000+08:00","text":"台電覺得會嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:41.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:44.003000+08:00","text":"你是幫中國攻臺開後門嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副總經理永輝","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:44.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:47.266000+08:00","text":"我是做技術專業的，國安的議題不是我關切的議題。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:47.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:49.728000+08:00","text":"那你覺得會不會有攻臺後門？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:49.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:49.988000+08:00","text":"你不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:51.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:52.610000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得那個立委講得有道理？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:53.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:57.577000+08:00","text":"我們只管核能安全。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:57.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:58.577000+08:00","text":"只管核能安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:58.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:35:59.577000+08:00","text":"確定核能安全我們才會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:35:58.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:36:11.972000+08:00","text":"對，這個要問國安會啦，請國安會來評估一下到底核三延役……所以以後如果要再運轉的話，可能召委要請國安會一起來，大家才能夠做更完整的討論。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-18T10:36:11.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-18T10:36:15.656000+08:00","text":"如果你們認為沒問題，就加強社會溝通，才會有社會共識，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:36:16.156000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:36:20.727429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝葉元之委員的質詢，請官員回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-18T10:36:21.027429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-18T10:36:29.027429+08:00","text":"接下來有請林宜瑾委員，等一下林宜瑾委員詢答之後，我們休息5分鐘。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}