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謝謝委員我們一起來關心台灣進入超高齡社會種種的問題那我們既有的政策就是長照3.0我也知道這個我不再重複另外我們昨天推出了獨居老人這個也是我們後續作文的一部分另外我們也日前推出老宅延壽"},{"start":317.702,"end":330.772,"text":"除了房屋是老的之外裡面也針對一些長者增加他裡面可能是剛我提到有電梯的一個協助輔導補助他能夠來更新種種另外在這個建築物裡面"},{"start":332.212,"end":361.165,"text":"樓梯降低整個樓梯的高度這個也是對老人的尊重 降低兩公分他就差很多另外在重要的地方要求增加這個安全的扶手這個都是建築法規可以處理另外就是 院長剛剛您提到的我知道比如說大概都是這個部分 比如說你剛講的電梯這個老宅延售事實上我們知道很多地方他有這樣子的一個需求但因為空間不足他可能也沒有辦法即使政府願意補助他也沒有辦法所以看起來都是比較"},{"start":363.402,"end":377.628,"text":"點的部分的一個設施那本席今天要跟您談的就是說是不是可以一個整體的規劃跨部會的因為這個可能你剛講的這個可能遍布在不同的部會那所以在這邊呢就是本席是希望具體的建議卓院長就是說第一個"},{"start":378.348,"end":399.834,"text":"我有三個建議第一個就是修正都市計劃法將開發案需要納入高齡友善跟全齡共榮的評估的一個機制第二個就是建立高齡友善跟全齡共榮的評估的審議指標將這個步行生活圈跟照顧設施比例強化社區這個支持網路等等規劃進去真正的以人為本來規劃"},{"start":400.834,"end":422.572,"text":"第三個就是推動全鄰共融社區的認證跟獎勵制度以容積獎勵引導民間真正的投入全鄰住宅的建設那這樣子的一個空間規劃就是不只能預防失能更可以減輕未來的醫療的負擔那院長是不是覺得這樣子的一個方向是不是可行就是整個跨部會的成立一個專案小組"},{"start":423.371,"end":447.359,"text":"委員題這三點都是重點都需要去了解跟我們未來來解決另外還有跟交通的問題也很多那這個我們會請政委這個政委應該可以請陳時中政委跟陳新德政委雙政委都來了解也來督促各部會先來做剛剛是整個盤點現在已經有的政策如何把它落實未來還要多增加整合在一起我覺得相對的很重要否則對於民眾來說"},{"start":448.559,"end":472.369,"text":"我因為需要跑這個部會 需要跑那個部會其實我覺得大家沒有辦法好好的整合也希望院長大概多久可以具體的提出這樣的一個時程我們可以在兩個禮拜之內就請政委來討論這個事情讓它形成一個可行未來的方向可行未來的方向到推動大概需要多久的時間我看"},{"start":473.923,"end":497.809,"text":"請政委來研究之後我們把時程跟委員來做報告那可能 既然我知道院長非常的重視這個超高齡社會的問題我現在一個月一定會跟委員講出一個我們現在要做的方式謝謝院長 就一個月之內我想讓我們可以知道說是不是可以這樣子來去推動那另外呢再請教院長就是說2024年的本席在第一次質詢院長的時候我曾經反映過"},{"start":499.55,"end":522.467,"text":"部長不好意思我下一個問題因為跟國防部有關所以說是謝謝部長就是有質詢過有關國軍對海涉及的牧林回饋的相關的一個這個經費的問題那也感謝這個院長那時候交辦之後國防部在去年就已經修正的這個牧林要點那也規定對海涉及的牧林經費回饋應該30%由漁會來規劃執行70%"},{"start":527.87,"end":551.424,"text":"給這個地方的公所那真正的落實海上漁業資源的賦予跟漁業設施的建設但是同樣的一個狀況這是國防部那現在中科院也有這樣子一個對海涉及的演訓的部分那他是在屏東九鵬基地進行對海演訓的試射飛彈那光在114年你可以看一下這張統計表"},{"start":552.452,"end":565.04,"text":"他在114年在台東海域基地在屏東他在台東海域進行了27次總共74天的這個演習74天是什麼概念就是大概有五分之一的時間都在演習"},{"start":565.985,"end":593.48,"text":"這還不包括可能因為颱風可能因為氣候不佳還有其他的因素他沒辦法還有就是不是魚訊期的時間他沒辦法出海所以呢因為嚴重的而且因為這段這個二十七十四天的演習是禁止漁民進入這個公告的區域來進行這個捕撈漁獲的動作所以呢對於這個部分其實嚴重影響你可以看一下這個這個範圍喔你可以看到"},{"start":594.38,"end":619.216,"text":"它所劃設的這個禁止漁民進入公告海域的這個部分你看它包含到綠島 蘭嶼幾乎把台東的海域全部都框起來了但是呢它只有補助在基地所在地的屏東屏東在地的公所那對受限制影響最大的台東地區的漁民跟漁業是完全沒有牧林回饋的"},{"start":620.65,"end":649.524,"text":"這顯然就非常的不合理一樣是對海涉及一樣是限制漁民捕魚但中科院跟國防部的做法是完全不一樣那我想其實基於國家安全我想漁民都很願意配合做這樣子的演訓跟國防但是因為捕魚是有季節性的所以說現在我們看到漁民不只要看以前只要看天吃飯現在還要看炮火吃飯就是如果這段時間是有這個炮彈涉及的時間我們是沒有辦法"},{"start":650.203,"end":673.256,"text":"這個出海捕魚的所以既然國防部已經有修正了這個牧林要點是不是能夠要求中科院也比照國防部辦理那依據這個中科院的牧林經費的這個要點同樣將30%的費用撥由漁會來規劃不要讓就同樣支持國防的漁民有這個因為演訓單位的不同而有差別的待遇"},{"start":674.329,"end":689.302,"text":"部長現狀先說明我想可能委員關切的是我們就募領的那個費用部分是不是要交給漁會的這個部分那我的印象沒有錯的話應該是說要看這個"},{"start":692.95,"end":719.602,"text":"它是不是屬於那個有涉及到基地所在地是嗎對但我要跟您看過去確實國防部的部分是這樣它是依基地所在地那因為事實上這個案子比較特殊是因為國防部的都是對海涉及是近距離的它這個是對高空的砲彈涉及所以它為什麼明明在屏東它框起來的海域是在台東就是因為它是對高空的砲彈涉及"},{"start":720.598,"end":746.885,"text":"所以說他把台東的海域也都框起來那這段時間這個台東的漁民是沒有辦法到這個地方去捕魚的那但是因為我就說單位的不同啊如果依照國防部的這個目的要點的話是可以由這個已經修正為就是百分之三十給漁會去規劃執行百分之七十給在地的公所可是呢中科院目前不是目前是受損的是憑台東的漁民台東地區的漁會"},{"start":747.956,"end":768.208,"text":"台東地區的漁民可是他去補助的是只有給屏東的這個在地的公所這個我想我們可能需要研究一下也就是說委員所關切的是可能在九孔河要打的可能很多都是遠距的這個要不然他不用荒了台東這麼大的一個海域嗎是不是要看他這個"},{"start":769.368,"end":786.018,"text":"對,所以在這邊我要請教的就是說,請市院長,就是說這個部分是不是能夠請中科院也比照國防部的這個目的要點來做?我們下去就這個部分,我們來做個研討,然後來跟委員做回顧。院長,您覺得,您剛剛這樣聽起來,您覺得這樣公平嗎?"},{"start":788.52,"end":808.139,"text":"國軍必要的演練各種的操演我想感謝國人也非常的支持但難免有一些對人民這個生活不便的地方所以我們盡量減少但一旦有發生這種無論是生活或是他的魚捕魚的過程產生了損害那國防部已經有一套對農會 漁會以及地方"},{"start":811.162,"end":837.746,"text":"公所的一套標準那一個國家應該一個標準一國應該一個標準我希望國防部我們跟中科院來協調一下在經費相同寬容的一個狀況底下能不能採取這樣同一個標準我們來協調謝謝謝謝院長然後另外就是剛剛也提到就是說他去年的這個對海涉及的時間就高達74天大概有五分之一所以是不是也是能夠請中科院跟國防部"},{"start":838.566,"end":847.309,"text":"盡量避免在餘孫期的時候去做這樣的演習當然如果一定必要的那沒話講盡量避開這個部門我們都有持續在檢討有跟這個來溝通就是說避免掉這個他們重要的餘孫的期間這樣子那不過有些時候"},{"start":861.353,"end":886.546,"text":"對 當然就是說如果是進軍需要的那當然沒話講但是進軍備戰的需要有時候所以說就是剛剛講就是盡量避免要不然剛剛講到的是光去年就已經五分之一的時間是在這個禁止他們去捕魚那第三個就是剛剛提到就是說剛剛講的就是我們禁止海域剛剛講九鵬基地在屏東但禁止海域在台東那希望台東的魚"},{"start":887.894,"end":910.202,"text":"台中地區的漁會也可以得到相同的牧林回饋來解決這個不公平我們下去來即刻進行研議像剛剛院長已經有指示了一個國家應該一個做法那在這邊也感謝院長願意明快的處置我們也希望能夠盡快的來處理那請問一下部長大概需要多久的時間"},{"start":913.822,"end":939.814,"text":"給我差不多三個禮拜吧好謝謝謝謝部長好謝謝然後另外再請教院長有關能源相關的問題因為我想這幾天大家都非常關心的其實就是我們這個天然氣進口問題因為伊朗戰爭的關係那導致我們的天然氣現在沒有辦法這個能夠這個因為封鎖荷姆茲海峽沒有辦法進來那尤其我們99%的天然氣都是靠進口"},{"start":940.233,"end":961.276,"text":"那用在發電上面又高達八成所以天然氣一旦中斷不是沒有瓦斯的問題而已而是缺電的問題那當然我們現在看到的就是我們的安全存量因為只有11天那現在因為其實從伊朗封鎖荷姆在海峽到現在已經21天大概已經三週的時間了所以呢"},{"start":962.34,"end":980.166,"text":"對台灣的衝擊其實相當巨大那當然就供應面來說的話我想經濟部也有提過就是說我們3月的有釣到了大概12艘船嘛4月份有釣到大概10艘船那請問5月份現在有釣到幾艘船呢"},{"start":982.843,"end":1001.982,"text":"我跟委員報告一下現在5月份我們需要14艘船那現在已經掉到10艘船所以345到現在應該已經掉了32艘船了嘛那因為我們知道就是說因為現在有針對這個因為供需緊繃跟地緣政治的一個風險的關係現貨的LNG的價格可能會比我們常約多30%到100%"},{"start":1007.23,"end":1016.752,"text":"那現在您調到的這32部的這個LNG船的話每一部我想請教一下就是實際增加的成本會是多少"},{"start":1018.962,"end":1044.373,"text":"這個我們可能還要再精算一下那我記得之前我有聽到這個拱部長因為他今天沒有來 他是說8到10億對 差不多這個數字8到10億嘛或許會越來越偏高對 因為現在的整個局勢看起來好像戰爭沒有要結束的感覺那因為這樣子的話 總共目前已經掉了32艘嘛那大概8到10億也大概會增加將近300億喔"},{"start":1046.417,"end":1063.384,"text":"院長剛才也提到的就是這個狀況也有可能價格會越來越高然後我們的因為隨著戰爭的時間拉長需求也會可能越來越緊繃所以針對這個部分的話就是說我們現在現貨採購增加的成本是不是會全數轉嫁到台電"},{"start":1064.438,"end":1087.548,"text":"還是由中油吸收?首先跟你們報告三四包括五月已經調到了十燒大概這個價格我們都已經談定就是五月還少那個四燒我們還在現貨市場上去講那這個價格或許會有一點浮動那所有現在我們每週的這個包括汽油也好包括天然氣也好都是由中油來做高大幅度的吸收那因為"},{"start":1088.428,"end":1115.98,"text":"LNG是要提供給台電的發電用的我們也希望台電跟中油能夠有一個當中他們的折算不要把負擔都給中油因為中油資本額才一千多億啊那剛剛踢到光這樣子就已經有三百億了那我想這樣對中油來說也是沉重的負擔那我們正請經濟部去協調讓中油台電也讓台電來做一點吸收為什麼我會問這題呢就是因為接下來四月就要這個有電價的這個是不是要調漲的問題嘛"},{"start":1117.521,"end":1129.976,"text":"所以這個部分如果台電已經有編列了吸收的空間有可能會反映在4月份的電價那我知道這幾天有很多的委員請教院長我們的電價到底會不會動漲"},{"start":1131.96,"end":1149.287,"text":"那院長您的答覆標準答案就是電價審議委員會不過電價審議委員會都跟我們生活在同一個空間感受到同樣的壓力但是我覺得院長你在這邊可以大方的說絕對不會動長我覺得你可以大方說為什麼你知道我分析給你聽"},{"start":1150.347,"end":1174.782,"text":"因為我們的這個電價審議委員會預計在3月27號開會那我們在3月份的天然氣採購價其實在2月底就已經訂定了那這個我們這個伊朗開展是2月28所以那時候還沒有這個問題所以說目前這個4月份的這個燃料的這個燃氣的價格中油會到3月31才公告"},{"start":1175.342,"end":1193.287,"text":"也就是電價審議委員會他們在3月27開會拿到的資料會是原來舊的這個資料所以他根本就沒有辦法看到反映之後的成本的一個價格所以依據現有的這個價格的話我想是應該不會調整電價才對是嗎 院長"},{"start":1197.219,"end":1220.861,"text":"我還是要尊重電價審議委員會否則明天就說政治的零價專業院長我剛剛的分析你覺得有沒有道理就是說他根本手上的資料就是舊的資料啊所以他不可能他不可能就是拿著舊的資料還沒有漲價前的資料告訴你要漲價對不對我們應該在討論的時候台電所以我才說您可以大方的告訴國人四月份的電價不會動漲因為"},{"start":1223.066,"end":1250.98,"text":"電價審議委員會他手上的資料看起來是不可能有這個漲價的問題嘛我是很大方啦但是不能這麼大方啦我要尊重專業但是我剛剛跟你分析的有沒有道理我們在跟電價討論審議委員會提供的資料一定會最接近事實的而且不是現在這一點是未來半年的預估都會放進去那你現在的狀況就是我剛剛講的嘛就是你是不是三月我想請教一下次長是不是三月三十一這個中油"},{"start":1251.667,"end":1269.528,"text":"才會公告這四月份的燃氣價格對因為每個月每個月三月二十七就開會了所以說我剛才跟院長講其實您可以大方的告訴全體的國人因為穩定物價所以我們在接下來我們四月份電價一定會動漲是不是這樣院長"},{"start":1272.148,"end":1300.179,"text":"我不能這樣來不然一定說政治廉價專業但是我們都相信審議委員跟我們在一起生活在這裡以感受國際局勢所以院長的答案其實也告訴我們其實我想四月份大概動漲電價是沒有問題的另外再請教我們以民生安定民生物價穩定安定為最大的原則好 謝謝院長那我們再看到下一個部分這個是在我們可以看到就是有兩個新聞稿"},{"start":1301.769,"end":1331.353,"text":"院長可以看到喔 上面這篇新聞稿喔是2022年2月25號在這個二五戰爭的時候下面這個新聞稿是我們2026年3月2號東東市經濟部發的新聞稿你有沒有覺得其實都很像就是告訴我們說我們會有儲備充足的安全能量同時採多元來源跟長約採購還有呢我們的這個能量供應充足大家不用擔心"},{"start":1332.196,"end":1353.407,"text":"都是這樣嗎這證明政府的政策是穩定的表示就是感覺上就是一樣的新聞稿只是日期不一樣為什麼會這樣問呢是因為在惡霧戰爭的時候當時的經濟部長王美花說我們的能源供應充足所以不會漲電價但是一年後台電虧損了五千億到現在都還在虧損"},{"start":1356.53,"end":1385.512,"text":"到目前為止都還有3500億還沒有補足所以我為什麼要這樣問就是因為現在因為針對剛剛提到這些問題事實上天然氣供應中斷不同的時間會有不同的問題剛剛講我們已經大概已經三週了接下來你們怎麼針對30天或是60天或是90天不同的情境然後成立跨部會的評估然後對於我們台灣的衝擊有多大"},{"start":1387.141,"end":1401.099,"text":"我們在物價穩定小組是持續開會另外經濟部 交通部他們各自有成立一個緊急應變的小組去因應現在每天發生的一個狀況而且每天 兩天 每週都會進行追蹤的討論"},{"start":1402.093,"end":1424.249,"text":"那在這樣子的一個狀況之下就是台灣電力系統會出現多大的發電缺口那政府已經評估好是不是有需要啟動分區限電的機制喔還有在電力的調度上產業用電跟民生用電要如何分配是不是可能啟動產業限電用電配給然後緊急調這個調度高成本的備用電源呢"},{"start":1424.693,"end":1438.847,"text":"三四五六月應該沒有這個狀況跟委員報告我們現在供電供氣都是很穩定的而且目前這個能源的這個調度其實到四月底都沒有問題所以也不會影響到這個供電的這個問題"},{"start":1440.709,"end":1466.578,"text":"那就是成本增加而已就對了因為剛剛講的就是成本增加但是現在的問題就在於說我們因為沒有積載電力因為核能的關係那當然現在已經有說要重啟這個核電那也請教一下就是說我們核三廠的自主安全檢查看起來大概上次有提到說大概1到1.5年的時間那目前的進度也是這樣嗎"},{"start":1468.224,"end":1475.935,"text":"根文報告原來的時程還是不變的如果按照目前來講3月底之前台電會提出自主"},{"start":1483.424,"end":1484.765,"text":"那如果照這樣講的話我們有沒有辦法加速那個自主安全檢查時間"},{"start":1510.779,"end":1531.481,"text":"因為事實上這個對我們來說這個缺電因為戰爭到現在還沒結束會不會有缺電的危機呢事實上我們很難預估那當然我們希望說趕快重啟核電因為這樣的機載電力讓我們能夠有比較穩定而且便宜的電力可以使用那所以相對來說現在算是緊急狀況所以是不是可以縮短這個我們自主安全檢查的時間"},{"start":1532.749,"end":1553.74,"text":"這個自主安全檢查的部分我們是有按照這個步驟來做我知道步驟但是同樣的嘛一天工作8小時跟一天工作12個小時跟一天工作12個小時那個速度會不一樣那緊急狀況之下是不是應該要加速這樣子的一個狀況我想我們會轉達請台電這邊就是來加速做這個自主安全檢查"},{"start":1553.94,"end":1579.075,"text":"但是還是要按照這樣的一個步驟當然安全性我們都支持但是事實上現在也算是一個這個非常時期緊急狀況所以像這樣的一個狀況的話那請問一下就是說核三廠一二號的機組最快什麼時候可以併完供電我遇到按照我們這樣的實証的規劃在二零二八年年底左右"},{"start":1580.556,"end":1603.738,"text":"2028年年底那這樣就是兩年多的時間因為可能還會有一些變數啦因為其實我們核三說實在才剛除役嘛去年的5月17才除役所以這個部分其實我覺得如果政府真的有決心啦要重啟核電的話其實一定會把這個時程可以加快而不是說這個我們照這樣的慢慢一步一步推讓人家會懷疑到底政府有沒有決心要重啟核電"},{"start":1604.423,"end":1624.555,"text":"是 我們會加速但是就是說它裡面還要牽涉到設備有沒有老化的現象那我請教院長針對這個部分政府到底有沒有決心要重啟核電是不是可以加快這樣的速度政府是依照核管法修訂之後才有這個權利去啟動是不是要再重啟那剛剛次長說的經濟部以及台電對於時程的設計他是認為說"},{"start":1629.858,"end":1656.318,"text":"一定要是在這個安全的時間當中進行所有的程序那如果當中在自主安全檢查裡面對於老化設備能夠不做很繁複的而且不需要跟動大量的設備那時程當然可以有彈性是不是院長可以請我們相關的單位能夠去研擬如何加快這樣子的一個速度我們第一要求的是安全第二個要求才是效率"},{"start":1656.998,"end":1665.324,"text":"第三個要求也是希望社會能夠有共識因為我們知道現在事實上AI的發展的話全世界都在搶這種"},{"start":1667.112,"end":1691.196,"text":"穩定又便宜的電力所以我們要爭取AI的產業來到台灣投資事實上這樣一個穩定便宜的機載電力提供給他們讓他們無缺電的問題才能夠真的吸引到這些AI的產業來到台灣投資所以請院長這個部分要好好的再來督導我們相關的單位好好的對於重啟這個核電的部分能夠加速研議進行院長是不是可行"},{"start":1691.618,"end":1712.813,"text":"是在核管法這樣修法之後提供了一個多項一個多一項的選項那這項選項我們要滿足所有條件之後我們希望他能夠讓我們本來就不是發電供電有愧於之餘的這個狀況底下我們更有充分的餘裕加速他的速度讓我們的這個沒有缺電的這樣子的一個風險跟危機是好謝謝"},{"start":1714.773,"end":1736.813,"text":"院長然後最後一個問題我想請教您就是有關喔這是我們您看一下這個表這是我們在2022年到2026年的這個我們的志願役預算原額的一個統計喔您可以看到我花了一點時間做這樣的一個統計喔那我們可以看到2026年的志願役原額與2023年相比少了17439人"},{"start":1739.756,"end":1760.245,"text":"那我們現在呢因為還要這個通過1.25兆的就是你們提出的1.25兆的這個國防特別預算喔那相較於國防特別預算我們的國軍基層人力招募很困難那尤其是你可以看到喔我們尤其是像下士他是真正要帶兵打仗的還有像上等兵"},{"start":1761.566,"end":1787.006,"text":"他是真正能夠熟悉操作武器的人就少了一萬三千多人所以我們可以看到國防支出的增加就是並沒有真正轉化為人力結構的改善所以讓很多的年輕人他根本不願意來擔任我們的軍人因為他到別的地方去去科技業 工程業 服務業他們的啟興跟發展都會優於軍職所以他們還要承擔這種高度的機率長時間的勤務跟潛在的戰爭風險"},{"start":1788.948,"end":1810.797,"text":"所以很多年輕人說我還不如去跑Uber那還比我當軍人強就缺乏那種待遇跟職業發展的一個競爭性所以說請院長看一下就是說在這個部分我們是不是針對我們的這個軍人的待遇的部分能夠有一個通盤的減少尤其是我們在這個過去的10年這個基本工資漲了40%"},{"start":1813.058,"end":1825.185,"text":"然後我們的這個軍人漲幅只有14%事實上讓我們很多的軍人都覺得我還是提早離役不要有這樣子的這個跟委員報告我想剛剛那個預算迎合的這樣用預算迎合"},{"start":1869.511,"end":1884.646,"text":"謝謝 現在感覺像開機密會議一樣根本聽不到你們在講什麼 好不好因為時間的關係實在是沒辦法 好不好謝謝徐委員那把徐委員要的資料請國防部送一份給徐委員好嗎好 謝謝徐宇人委員 謝謝卓院長香港部會首長悲尋"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:44:39.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:44:40.732000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T15:44:40.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:44:41.272000+08:00","text":"麻煩請卓院長再次備詢。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:44:41.272000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T15:44:42.272000+08:00","text":"許委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:44:41.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:44:41.552000+08:00","text":"卓院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:44:41.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:45:18.922000+08:00","text":"本席今天想要跟您探討的是有關超高齡社會，因為從去年12月我們的65歲以上人口已經突破20%，臺灣正式進入了超高齡社會，截至2月為止，我們的65歲以上人口已經高達475萬人，所以這個問題，事實上，我相信院長也非常重視……是。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:45:18.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:45:28.669000+08:00","text":"尤其是2045年我們的高齡人口可能也會達到35%，成為全球老化速度最快的社會之一。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:45:30.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:45:36.659000+08:00","text":"當人口結構發生這樣的改變，事實上對城市治理是一個深層制度的考驗。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:45:36.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:45:48.586000+08:00","text":"面對這個高齡化的巨浪，我想請教院長，今天我們的都市計畫法以及都市計畫審議制度是不是真的準備好讓人民安心老化了？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:45:49.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:45:59.908000+08:00","text":"院長可以看一下這張表，這是截至2月我們65歲以上人口的統計，大部分縣市其實都已經達到20%以上了。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:46:01.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:46:16.534000+08:00","text":"我在這邊也要跟院長報告，就是我們現行的都市計畫制度在面臨超高齡社會的時候至少存在四個結構性問題，如果沒有及早調整的話，未來恐怕會形成嚴重的社會與財政壓力。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:46:17.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:46:20.158000+08:00","text":"第一個就是審議標準與人口現實脫節。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:46:20.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:46:43.937000+08:00","text":"因為目前的都市計畫審議還停留在追求開發強度還有容積率和土地利用效率這個舊思維，城市不斷擴張、建案不斷增加，制度上卻缺乏針對高齡友善，比如建置高齡步行安全、無障礙生活圈以及社區照護服務這些指標性的系統檢視。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:46:43.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:46:52.901000+08:00","text":"換言之，人口結構已經改變了，但規劃的思維還是停留在過去以年輕勞動人口進行規劃的城市。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:46:54.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:47:01.196000+08:00","text":"當這樣的制度沒有辦法真正反映現在的人口現實，就會導致安養的風險。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:47:01.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:47:05.378000+08:00","text":"第二點就是社會福利設施看得到、用不到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:47:06.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:47:32.576000+08:00","text":"現在有很多新興重劃區，看起來公共設施非常完善，圖面上有社福中心、有日照據點、有很多活動空間，但實際上有可能是人行道不連續、道路過寬，或者是設施的距離過寬，甚至有的老人家要跨到別的行政區才能夠使用日照服務，這也顯示在開發過程中缺乏高齡需求的規劃視角。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:47:33.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:47:45.539000+08:00","text":"對於這些開發案，因為鼓勵他們，給他們高額容積獎勵，但是他們也只提供少量的社福設施，導致公共回饋與實際上有明顯落差。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:47:46.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:47:50.421000+08:00","text":"第三個當然就是老老照顧與老人住老宅的問題。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:47:50.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:47:59.116000+08:00","text":"現在其實很多都是60歲照顧80歲的父母，70歲照顧90歲的父母，老老照顧也衍生很多問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:47:59.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:48:10.839000+08:00","text":"另外是老宅的問題，現在我們有六成以上的住宅幾乎都沒有電梯，所以老人家上下樓的困境事實上也常常發生。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:48:12.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:48:29.495000+08:00","text":"如果我們的都市計畫以及住宅政策沒有提前導入全齡住宅這樣的概念，鼓勵無障礙設施與社區照護整合，未來不管是長者跌倒、失能或照護的問題，也都會造成我們的社會以及財政成本大量支出。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:48:30.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:48:33.836000+08:00","text":"第四個是高齡友善生活支持圈正在瓦解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:48:34.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:48:49.204000+08:00","text":"因為大部分長者的生活範圍大概就在他住家周邊的1公里內，這個生活半徑如果缺乏步行可到的社交空間、健康服務或是公共活動據點，長者很容易陷入孤立。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:48:50.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:48:55.752000+08:00","text":"國際研究也指出，社會孤立不但會影響心理健康，也會導致失能和醫療的增加。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:48:56.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:49:03.401000+08:00","text":"所以都市計畫不應該只是土地配置和建築量體規劃，應該升級為生活系統建構。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:49:05.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:49:14.913000+08:00","text":"在這邊本席要請教卓院長，面對現在的超高齡社會，行政院是否願意成立一個跨部會的專案小組？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:49:14.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:49:27.165000+08:00","text":"我相信您非常重視，由您親自領軍，包括內政部、交通部、衛福部、國發會等等相關部會，我們來啟動一個高齡友善都市計畫的制度改革，是否可行？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:49:28.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:49:33.495000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們一起來關心臺灣進入超高齡社會的種種問題。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:49:33.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:49:58.409000+08:00","text":"我們既有的政策就是長照3.0，委員也知道，我不再重複；另外，我們昨天推出了獨居老人服務，這個也是我們後續作為的一部分；日前我們也推出老宅延壽，除了房屋是老的之外，裡面也針對一些長者，如剛剛委員提到的，在裡面協助它增加電梯，輔導、補助它能夠做種種更新。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:49:59.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:50:16.358000+08:00","text":"另外，在建築物裡面降低整個樓梯的高度，這個也是對老人的尊重，降低2公分就差很多；另外，在重要的地方要求增加安全扶手，這個都是建築法規可以處理的。另外……","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:50:17.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:50:35.402000+08:00","text":"院長，剛剛您提到的，比如說你剛剛講的電梯、老宅延壽，事實上，我們知道很多地方有這樣子的需求，但因為空間不足，即使政府願意補助，它可能也沒有辦法設置，所以看起來都是比較點狀的設施。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:50:36.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:50:40.884000+08:00","text":"本席今天要跟您談的是，是不是可以有一個整體的、跨部會的規劃？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:50:40.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:51:20.961000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛講的這些可能遍布在不同的部會，所以在這邊本席希望具體建議卓院長，我有三個建議：第一個，修正都市計畫法，將開發案納入高齡友善跟全齡共融的評估機制；第二個，建立高齡友善跟全齡共融的評估審議指標，將步行生活圈跟照顧設施比例、強化社區支持網絡等等規劃進去，真正的以人為本來規劃；第三個，推動全齡共融社區的認證跟獎勵制度，以容積獎勵引導民間真正投入全齡住宅的建設。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:51:21.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:51:30.930000+08:00","text":"這樣子的空間規劃不只能預防失能，更可以減輕未來醫療的負擔，院長覺得這樣的一個方向是不是可行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:51:31.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:51:33.572000+08:00","text":"就是整個跨部會成立一個專案小組？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:51:34.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:51:38.953000+08:00","text":"是，委員提的三點都是需要重點去了解，跟我們未來需要解決的。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:51:38.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:51:55.838000+08:00","text":"另外，還有跟交通相關的問題也很多，我們會請政委，這個應該可以請陳時中政委跟陳金德政委雙政委都來了解，也來督促各部會，先做整體盤點，現在已經有的政策如何把它落實，未來還要多增加哪些政策……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:51:55.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:04.841000+08:00","text":"整合在一起我覺得相對重要，否則對於民眾來說，他因為需要這個，跑這個部會；需要那個，跑那個部會，我覺得大家沒有辦法很好的整合。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:04.841000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:05.982000+08:00","text":"很好的建議，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:05.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:10.744000+08:00","text":"院長大概要多久可以提出具體的時程？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:11.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:18.587000+08:00","text":"我們可以在兩個禮拜之內就請政委來討論這個事情，讓它形成一個未來可行的方向，共同來做推動。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:19.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:23.229000+08:00","text":"形成可行的方向到推動大概需要多久的時間？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:24.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:27.704000+08:00","text":"請政委來研究之後，我們把時程跟委員報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:28.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:31.645000+08:00","text":"好，既然我知道院長非常重視這個超高齡社會的問題……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:32.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:34.685000+08:00","text":"一個月以內一定會跟委員提出一個我們現在要做的方式。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:34.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:41.227000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，一個月之內讓我們知道是不是可以這樣推動。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:41.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:42.227000+08:00","text":"沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:42.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:43.227000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:41.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:52:56.995000+08:00","text":"另外再請教院長，2024年本席在第一次質詢院長的時候曾經反映過……石部長，不好意思，我下一個問題因為跟國防部有關，所以謝謝部長。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:52:57.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:53:24.914000+08:00","text":"本席有質詢過有關國軍對海射擊睦鄰回饋相關經費的問題，也感謝院長那時候交辦之後，國防部在去年就已經修正了睦鄰工作要點，也規定對海射擊的睦鄰經費回饋應該百分之三十由漁會來規劃執行，百分之七十給地方的公所，真正落實海上漁業資源的復育跟漁業設施的建設。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:53:24.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:53:39.662000+08:00","text":"但是同樣的狀況，剛剛說的是國防部，現在中科院也有這樣對海射擊的演訓，它是在屏東九鵬基地進行對海演訓的試射飛彈。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:53:41.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:53:53.278000+08:00","text":"您可以看一下這張統計表，光在114年，它的基地在屏東，而它在臺東海域進行了27次，總共74天的演習。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:53:53.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:53:53.878000+08:00","text":"74天是什麼概念？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:53:54.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:54:21.418000+08:00","text":"就是大概有五分之一的時間都在演習，這還不包括可能因為颱風、可能因為氣候不佳，還有其他的因素，還有不是漁汛期的時間，他沒辦法出海，而且因為這74天的演習是禁止漁民進入公告的區域捕撈，所以這個部分對漁民其實有嚴重的影響。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:54:21.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:54:53.391000+08:00","text":"您可以看一下這個範圍，它所劃設的這個禁止漁民進入公告海域捕魚的部分包含到綠島、蘭嶼，幾乎把臺東的海域全部都框起來了，但是它只有補助基地所在地的屏東在地的公所，對受限制影響最大的臺東地區的漁民跟漁業是完全沒有睦鄰回饋的，這顯然就非常的不合理。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:54:53.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:55:01.395000+08:00","text":"一樣是對海射擊，一樣是限制漁民捕魚，但中科院跟國防部的做法完全不一樣。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:55:02.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:55:21.964000+08:00","text":"其實基於國家安全，我想漁民都很願意配合做這樣的國防演訓，但是因為捕魚是有季節性的，以前漁民只要看天吃飯，現在還要看砲火吃飯，就是如果這段時間是砲彈射擊的時間，漁民是沒有辦法出海捕魚的。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:55:22.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:55:44.236000+08:00","text":"所以既然國防部已經有修正睦鄰工作要點，是不是能夠要求中科院也比照國防部辦理，依據中科院睦鄰經費的要點，同樣將百分之三十的費用撥由漁會來規劃，不要讓同樣支持國防的漁民，因為演訓單位的不同而有差別待遇？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:55:45.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:55:46.370000+08:00","text":"請部長先說明。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:55:48.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:55:56.219000+08:00","text":"委員關切的可能是睦鄰費用是不是要交給漁會的部分嘛，是不是？對。","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:55:57.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:56:07.512000+08:00","text":"我的印象沒有錯的話，應該是要看他是不是屬於有涉及到……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:56:07.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:56:09.893000+08:00","text":"基地所在地。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:56:09.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:56:39.140000+08:00","text":"但我要給您看，過去確實國防部的部分是這樣，它是依基地所在地，而這個案子比較特殊是因為，國防部的都是對海射擊，是近距離的，但它這個是對高空的砲彈射擊，所以為什麼明明在屏東演訓，但它框起來的海域是在臺東，就是因為它是對高空的砲彈射擊，所以它把臺東的海域也都框起來，這段時間臺東的漁民是沒有辦法到這個地方去捕魚的。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:56:40.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:04.239000+08:00","text":"但是因為單位的不同，如果依照國防部的睦鄰工作要點現在已經修正為百分之三十給漁會去規劃執行，百分之七十給在地的公所，可是中科院目前不是，目前受損的是臺東地區的漁會、臺東地區的漁民，可是它卻只有補助屏東在地的公所。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:05.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:12.984000+08:00","text":"這個我們可能需要研究一下，也就是說，委員所關切的是，在九鵬要打的可能很多都是遠距的……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:14.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:18.027000+08:00","text":"對，不然它不用框到臺東這麼大的一個海域。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:18.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:19.208000+08:00","text":"是不是要看它這個……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:20.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:28.733000+08:00","text":"所以在這邊我要請示院長，這個部分是不是能夠請中科院也比照國防部的睦鄰工作要點來做？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:29.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:35.057000+08:00","text":"我們下去就這個部分來做研討，然後來跟委員做回復。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:35.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:57:37.018000+08:00","text":"院長，您剛剛這樣聽起來，覺得這樣公平嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:57:39.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:17.816000+08:00","text":"國軍必要的演練、各種的操演，我想感謝國人也非常的支持，但難免有一些對人民生活造成不便的地方，所以我們儘量要減少，一旦發生這種無論是對生活或者是他捕魚的過程產生的損害，既然國防部對漁會以及地方公所已經有一套標準，一個國家應該一個標準，我希望國防部跟中科院來協調一下，在經費寬容的狀況底下，能不能採取同一個標準，我們來協調。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:17.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:17.976000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:18.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:33.547000+08:00","text":"另外，剛剛也提到它去年對海射擊的時間就多達74天，大概有五分之一，所以是不是也能夠請中科院跟國防部儘量避免在漁汛期去做這樣的演習？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:33.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:35.388000+08:00","text":"當然如果是一定必要的，那沒話講，但是如果……","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:35.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:35.748000+08:00","text":"儘量避開。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:35.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:38.289000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們都有持續在檢討，有跟他們來溝通，儘量避免掉他們重要漁汛的期間，不過有些時候……","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:52.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:56.135000+08:00","text":"對，如果是緊急需要的，那當然沒話講，但是這個部分……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:57.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:58:57.376000+08:00","text":"有時候為了建軍備戰的需要……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:58:59.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:08.661000+08:00","text":"所以就是剛剛講的，就是儘量避免，要不然就會像剛剛講的，光去年就有五分之一的時間禁止他們去捕魚。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:08.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:24.116000+08:00","text":"第三個，就是剛剛提到的，九鵬基地在屏東，但禁止海域在臺東，希望臺東地區的漁會也可以得到相同的睦鄰回饋，來解決這個問題。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:24.116000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:26.217000+08:00","text":"剛剛院長已經有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:26.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:29.198000+08:00","text":"我們下去來即刻進行研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:29.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:39.081000+08:00","text":"剛剛院長已經有指示了，一個國家應該一個做法，在這邊也感謝院長願意明快的處置，我們也希望能夠儘快來處理。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:39.081000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:40.081000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:39.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:41.202000+08:00","text":"請問部長大概需要多久的時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:44.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:47.163000+08:00","text":"給我差不多三個禮拜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:47.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:49.244000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:49.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T15:59:50.104000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T15:59:50.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:00:07.712000+08:00","text":"另外再請教院長能源相關的問題，我想這幾天大家都非常關心的就是天然氣進口問題，因為伊朗戰爭的關係，荷姆茲海峽被封鎖，導致我們的天然氣現在沒有辦法進來。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:00:07.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:00:20.002000+08:00","text":"尤其我們99%的天然氣都是靠進口，用在發電上面又高達八成，所以天然氣一旦中斷，不是沒有瓦斯的問題而已，而是缺電的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:00:20.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:00:35.121000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到的就是我們的安全存量只有11天，從伊朗封鎖荷姆茲海峽到現在已經21天、大概三週的時間了，對臺灣的衝擊其實相當巨大。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:00:36.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:00:51.146000+08:00","text":"當然就供應面來說，經濟部也有提過，3月有調到大概12艘船，4月份有調到大概10艘船，請問5月份現在有調到幾艘船呢？","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:00:53.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:00:59.749000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，現在5月份我們需要14艘船，現在已經調到10艘船。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:00.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:04.334000+08:00","text":"所以3、4、5月到現在應該已經調了32艘船了嘛？是。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:05.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:27.732000+08:00","text":"我們知道因為供需緊繃跟地緣政治風險的關係，LNG的現貨價格可能會比我們長約多30%到100%，現在您調到的這32艘LNG船，我想請教一下，每一艘實際增加的成本會是多少？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:29.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:32.223000+08:00","text":"這個可能還要再精算一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:33.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:39.326000+08:00","text":"我記得之前我聽到龔部長……因為他今天沒有來，他是說8到10億嘛。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:39.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:40.026000+08:00","text":"對，差不多這個數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:40.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:40.767000+08:00","text":"8到10億嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:41.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:43.148000+08:00","text":"或許會越來越偏高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:44.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:48.850000+08:00","text":"因為現在整個局勢看起來，戰爭好像沒有要結束的感覺。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:48.850000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:50.891000+08:00","text":"是的，沒錯。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:50.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:01:55.353000+08:00","text":"目前已經總共調了32艘，每艘8到10億，大概會增加將近300億。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:01:57.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:02:07.501000+08:00","text":"院長剛剛也提到價格有可能會越來越高，隨著戰爭的時間拉長，需求也可能會越來越緊繃。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:02:08.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:02:16.398000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，我們現在現貨採購增加的成本是不是會全數轉嫁到台電，還是由中油吸收？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:02:17.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:02:30.164000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員報告，3、4月包括5月已經調到的10艘，價格我們都已經談定，但5月還少4艘，我們還再到現貨市場上去搶，這個價格或許會有一點浮動。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:02:31.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:02:37.827000+08:00","text":"現在我們每週包括汽油也好、包括天然氣也好，都是由中油大幅度的吸收。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:02:38.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:02:48.312000+08:00","text":"因為LNG是要提供給台電發電用的，我們也希望台電跟中油之間能夠折算，不要把負擔都給中油。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:02:48.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:02:56.896000+08:00","text":"因為中油的資本額才一千多億，剛剛聽到光這樣就已經300億了，我想這樣對中油來說也是沉重的負擔。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:02:56.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:00.738000+08:00","text":"我們正請經濟部去協調，也讓台電來吸收一點在LNG的部分……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:01.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:02.558000+08:00","text":"為什麼我會問這題呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:02.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:15.450000+08:00","text":"因為接下來4月就會有電價是不是要調漲的問題，這個部分如果台電已經有編列了吸收的空間，有可能會反映在4月份的電價。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:15.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:24+08:00","text":"我知道這幾天有很多委員請教院長電價到底會不會凍漲，院長，您的答復……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:24.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:27.062000+08:00","text":"標準答案就在電價審議委員會。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:27.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:32.063000+08:00","text":"不過電價審議委員會都跟我們生活在同一個空間，感受到同樣的壓力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄：但是我覺得院長在這邊可以大方地說","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:37.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:38.086000+08:00","text":"絕對會凍漲。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄：但是我覺得院長在這邊可以大方地說","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:38.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:39.546000+08:00","text":"我覺得你可以大方地說，你知道為什麼嗎？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄：但是我覺得院長在這邊可以大方地說","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:39.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:03:40.287000+08:00","text":"我分析給你聽。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄：但是我覺得院長在這邊可以大方地說","start":"2026-03-20T16:03:41.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:05.762000+08:00","text":"因為電價審議委員會預計在3月27號開會，3月份的天然氣採購價其實在2月底就已經訂定了，伊朗開戰是2月28號，那時候還沒有這個問題，而中油會到3月31號才公告4月份的燃氣價格。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄：但是我覺得院長在這邊可以大方地說","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:06.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:18.885000+08:00","text":"也就是電價審議委員會在3月27號開會拿到的會是原來舊的資料，所以根本就沒有辦法看到反映成本之後的價格。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄：但是我覺得院長在這邊可以大方地說","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:20.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:24.267000+08:00","text":"因此依據現有的價格，我想應該不會調整電價才對，是嗎？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰：我還是要尊重電價審議委員會，否則明天就說","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:24.267000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:25.267000+08:00","text":"政治凌駕專業！不是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:24.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:34.105000+08:00","text":"院長，你覺得我剛剛的分析有沒有道理？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:34.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:36.987000+08:00","text":"他手上根本就是舊的資料。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:36.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:37.987000+08:00","text":"不會、不會！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:37.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:38.987000+08:00","text":"我想在討論的時候……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:37.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:45.195000+08:00","text":"他不可能拿著舊的資料、還沒有漲價前的資料，卻告訴你要漲價，對不對？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:45.195000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:46.195000+08:00","text":"是這樣吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:45.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:46.496000+08:00","text":"我們應該在討論的時候，台電還有……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:46.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:04:59.009000+08:00","text":"所以我才說您可以大方地告訴國人，4月份的電價會凍漲，因為電價審議委員會手上的資料看起來是不可能有漲價的問題嘛！","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:04:59.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:02.170000+08:00","text":"我是很大方啦，但是不能這麼大方啦，我要尊重專業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:02.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:04.271000+08:00","text":"但是我剛剛跟你分析的有沒有道理？有吧！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:05.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:14.876000+08:00","text":"我們在跟電價審議委員會討論的時候，提供的資料一定會最接近事實，而且不是現在這一點，是未來半年的預估都會放進去。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:15.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:25.170000+08:00","text":"你現在的狀況就是我剛剛講的，我想請教一下次長，是不是3月31日中油才會公告4月份的燃氣價格？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:26.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:27.753000+08:00","text":"對，因為每個月、每個月運量……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:28.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:40.528000+08:00","text":"你3月27日就開會了嘛，所以我剛才跟院長講，其實您可以大方地告訴全體的國人，因為穩定物價，所以接下來4月份電價一定會凍漲，是不是這樣？院長。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:43.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:46.949000+08:00","text":"我不能這樣來……不然一定會說政治凌駕專業……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:46.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:47.949000+08:00","text":"對、是，好，那院長我相信……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:46.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:51.831000+08:00","text":"但是我們都相信審議委員跟我們在一起生活在這裡，感受國際局勢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:51.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:57.453000+08:00","text":"所以院長的答案也告訴我們，其實我想4月份大概凍漲電價是沒有問題的。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:57.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:05:58.494000+08:00","text":"另外，再請教……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:05:58.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:03.176000+08:00","text":"我們以民生安定、民生物價穩定、安定為最大的原則。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:03.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:04.436000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:04.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:30.003000+08:00","text":"我們再看到下一個部分，這個是在……我們可以看到有兩個新聞稿，院長可以看到上面這篇新聞稿是2022年2月25號在俄烏戰爭的時候，下面這個新聞稿是2026年3月2號，通通是經濟部發的新聞稿，你有沒有覺得其實都很像？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:31.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:44.557000+08:00","text":"就是告訴我們說會儲備充足的安全能量，同時採多元來源和長約採購，還有我們的能量供應充足，大家不用擔心，都是這樣嘛，感覺上就是……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:44.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:46.077000+08:00","text":"這就證明政府的政策是穩定的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:46.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:48.118000+08:00","text":"感覺上就是一樣的新聞稿。是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:48.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:06:50.780000+08:00","text":"只是日期不一樣，為什麼會這樣問呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:06:50.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:07:12.033000+08:00","text":"是因為在俄烏戰爭的時候，當時的經濟部長王美花說我們的能源供應充足，所以不會漲電價；但是一年後台電虧損了5,000億，到現在都還在虧損，到目前為止，都還有3,500億還沒有補足。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:07:13.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:07:13.955000+08:00","text":"我為什麼要這樣問？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:07:13.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:07:36.492000+08:00","text":"就是因為現在針對剛剛提到的這些問題，事實上，天然氣供應中斷，不同的時間會有不同的問題，剛剛講的大概已經3週了，接下來，你們怎麼針對30天、60天或是90天不同的情境，進行跨部會評估對於我們臺灣的衝擊有多大？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:07:38.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:07:40.985000+08:00","text":"針對物價，我們物價穩定小組是持續開會。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:07:40.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:07:52.099000+08:00","text":"另外，經濟部、交通部各自有成立一個緊急應變的小組去因應現在每天發生的狀況，而且每天、兩天、每週都會進行追蹤的討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:07:53.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:07:58.257000+08:00","text":"在這樣子的狀況之下，臺灣電力系統會出現多大的發電缺口？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:07:59.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:03.501000+08:00","text":"政府已經評估好是不是有需要啟動分區限電的機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:04.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:07.924000+08:00","text":"還有在電力的調度上，產業用電跟民生用電要如何分配？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:08.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:15.229000+08:00","text":"是不是可能啟動產業限電、用電配給，然後緊急調度高成本的備用電源呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:16.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:18.936000+08:00","text":"3、4、5、6月應該沒有這個狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:18.936000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:19.936000+08:00","text":"都沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:19.936000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:20.936000+08:00","text":"請次長說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:18.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:29.847000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在供電、供氣都是很穩定的，而且目前能源的調度，其實到4月底都沒有問題，所以也不會影響到供電的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:31.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:08:57.578000+08:00","text":"是，那就是成本增加而已就對了，因為剛剛講的，就是成本增加，但是現在的問題就在於，我們因為沒有基載電力，因為核能的關係，當然現在已經有說要重啟核電，也請教一下，有關核三廠的自主安全檢查，看起來上次有提到大概1到1.5年的時間，目前的進度也是這樣嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:08:59.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:03.170000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，原來的時程還是不變的，也就是說……","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:03.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:04.170000+08:00","text":"原來的時程是怎樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:03.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:06.634000+08:00","text":"如果按照目前來講，就是3月底之前，台電會提出再運轉的計畫……","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:06.634000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:09.257333+08:00","text":"再運轉計畫，核安會嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:09.257333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:11.880667+08:00","text":"對，同時它也在做自主安全的檢查，有關自主安全的檢查，按照推估的時間大概1.5年到2年的時間。","quality":0.051},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:11.880667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:14.504000+08:00","text":"另外，目前台電公司也跟西屋公司簽訂了一個合約，就是未來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:14.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:15.765000+08:00","text":"如果照這樣講的話，我們有沒有辦法加速自主安全檢查的時間？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:41.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:09:47.866000+08:00","text":"因為對我們來說，因為戰爭到現在還沒結束，會不會有缺電的危機呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:09:48.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:02.481000+08:00","text":"事實上，我們很難預估，當然我們會希望趕快重啟核電，因為這樣的基載電力讓我們能夠有比較穩定而且便宜的電力可以使用，相對來說，現在算是緊急狀況，所以是不是可以縮短自主安全檢查的時間？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:03.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:07.151000+08:00","text":"關於自主安全檢查的部分，我們是有按照步驟來做，當然時間……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:07.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:19.317000+08:00","text":"我知道步驟，但是一天工作8小時跟一天工作12小時來比較，一天工作12小時的速度會不一樣，在緊急狀況之下，是不是應該要加速？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:20.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:27.862000+08:00","text":"我們會轉達請台電加速做自主安全檢查，但還是要按照這樣的步驟，我想核安是不能打折的。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:27.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:44.712000+08:00","text":"當然，安全性我們都支持，但事實上現在算是非常時期的緊急狀況，像這樣的狀況的話，請問核三廠一、二號機組最快什麼時候可以併網供電？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:45.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:50.055000+08:00","text":"按照我們的時程規劃，大概2028年年底左右。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:51.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:52.056000+08:00","text":"2028年年底？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:52.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:54.378000+08:00","text":"這樣就是兩年多的時間了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:54.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:10:56.180000+08:00","text":"對，因為可能還會有一些變數……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:10:56.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:14.738000+08:00","text":"其實核三在去年5月17日才剛除役，針對這部分，我覺得如果政府真的有決心要重啟核電的話，一定可以把時程加快，而不是說我們照這樣子慢慢一步一步推，這會讓人家懷疑到底政府有沒有決心要重啟核電。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:15.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:20.406000+08:00","text":"我們會加速，但是它裡面還牽涉到設備有沒有老化的現象，還要再經過汰換。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:21.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:26.249000+08:00","text":"我請教院長，針對這個部分，政府到底有沒有決心要重啟核電？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:26.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:27.590000+08:00","text":"是不是可以加快這樣的速度？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:27.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:34.274000+08:00","text":"政府是依照核管法修訂之後，才有權力去啟動是不是要再重啟……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:34.274000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:35.274000+08:00","text":"核管法已經修訂了嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:34.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:11:56.470000+08:00","text":"剛剛次長提及經濟部以及台電對於時程的設計，他是認為一定要在安全的時間當中進行所有的程序，如果在自主安全檢查當中，對於老化設備能夠不做很繁複而且不需要更動大量的設備，那麼時程當然可以有彈性。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:11:57.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:12:03.815000+08:00","text":"院長是不是可以請相關單位研擬如何加快這樣子的速度？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:12:03.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:12:05.256000+08:00","text":"我們第一個要求的是安全……當然。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:12:06.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:12:12.061000+08:00","text":"第二個要求才是效率，第三個要求也是希望社會能夠有共識。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:12:12.061000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:12:13.061000+08:00","text":"當然一定是要在安全的狀況之下。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:12:12.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:12:42.176000+08:00","text":"我們知道，因應AI的發展，現在全世界都在搶穩定又便宜的電力，如果我們要爭取AI產業來到臺灣投資，事實上，把穩定又便宜的基載電力提供給他們，讓他們無缺電的問題，才能夠真的吸引AI產業來到臺灣投資，所以就這個部分請院長要好好再督導相關單位，對於重啟核電的部分能夠加速研議進行，院長，是不是可行？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-20T16:12:42.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:12:58.349000+08:00","text":"是，在核管法這樣修法之後，提供了多一個選項，針對這個選項，我們要滿足所有條件之後，我們希望能夠讓我們在本來就不是發電、供電有匱乏之虞的狀況之下，我們更有充分的餘裕……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:12:58.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:13:03.593000+08:00","text":"加快它的速度，讓我們沒有缺電的風險跟危機，好嗎？是。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:13:03.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:13:05.853000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:13:06.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:13:38.079000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，請您看一下這個表，這是2022年到2026年的志願役預算員額統計，我花了一點時間做這樣的統計，我們可以看到，2026年的志願役員額與2023年相比少了1萬7,439人，我們現在還要通過你們所提出的1.25兆國防特別預算。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:13:39.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:14:03.915000+08:00","text":"相較於國防特別預算，我們的國軍基層人力招募很困難，尤其像下士，他是真正要帶兵打仗的人，還有像上等兵，他是真正能夠熟悉操作武器的人，就少了一萬三千多人，所以我們可以看到國防支出的增加並沒有真正轉化為人力結構的改善。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:14:04.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:14:26.511000+08:00","text":"很多年輕人根本不願意來當軍人，因為他們到別的地方去，不論是去科技業、工程業、服務業，起薪跟發展都會優於軍職，而且擔任軍職還要承擔高度的紀律、長時間的勤務以及潛在的戰爭風險，所以很多年輕人說不如去跑Uber還比當軍人強，軍職根本就缺乏待遇與職涯發展的競爭性。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:14:30.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:14:37.795000+08:00","text":"針對軍人待遇的部分，我們是不是能夠有一個通盤的檢討？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:14:38.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:14:52.743000+08:00","text":"尤其是過去的10年，基本工資漲了40%，而軍人待遇的漲幅只有14%，讓很多軍人都覺得還是提早離役，不要有這樣子的……","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T16:14:52.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:02.296600+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想剛剛提到這樣用預算員額……這個是不對的，因為我們過去預算員額可能編得比較高，但是實際的員額會相對比較低，我上任之後要求預算員額跟實際員額要接近，因此我們按照實際的員額，事實上我們去年志願役的員額增加三千多人，編現比提高到80%，留營率也提高……","quality":0.121},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:02.296600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:11.850200+08:00","text":"那還是減少一萬多人嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:11.850200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:21.403800+08:00","text":"所以不能用預算員額……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:21.403800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:30.957400+08:00","text":"部長，我現在要表達的是，我們針對你們提出的1.25兆軍購採購武器之外，其實對於軍人的待遇、我們整個國防安全的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:30.957400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:40.511000+08:00","text":"待遇的部分，我們確實去年大幅調升了……加給的……確實有效的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:40.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:43.794000+08:00","text":"謝謝，現在感覺像開機密會議一樣，根本聽不到你們在講什麼，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:44.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:46.857000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，實在是沒辦法，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:47.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:51.342000+08:00","text":"謝謝許委員，許委員要的資料，請國防部送一份給許委員，好嗎？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:51.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:52.583000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:53.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-20T16:15:55.626000+08:00","text":"謝謝許宇甄委員，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-20T16:15:56.126000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-20T16:16:02.126000+08:00","text":"接下來是本日最後一位委員質詢，請黃捷委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}