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外交國防委員會這週排審軍購條例昨天有問顧部長他說這是你的權責所以要請問院長如果軍購案通過的是在野黨的版本請問你會選擇附屬還是不附屬"},{"start":56.017,"end":73.333,"text":"我請在在野黨黨團跟國防外交委員會能夠持續的跟國防部保持更多的溝通希望能夠依照院版來通過那就沒有其他問題那如果是通過了在野黨版本請問你會附屬還是不附屬不要用這種假設性的問題我說過只要"},{"start":75.575,"end":102.955,"text":"不違憲不違法破壞國家財政不違憲不違法破壞國家財政不影響國家安全經過充分的討論民主程序行政院沒有所以您現在不方便回答附屬不附屬是嗎我現在請顧部長國防部努力說服我們大院的同仁們依照行政院版這個通過我們才有台灣之盾我們才有吉沙葉我們才有本土產業"},{"start":103.675,"end":129.572,"text":"那再來我想跟你詢問一下核電回來了就必須換台中人一口氣菲爾家園一直以來都是民進黨的神主牌就在上週賴清德總統在台中宣布要重啟核二核三面對氣候的變遷供電的吃緊再生能源推生困難的現實面對上一代錯誤的政策這一代終於說不了院長"},{"start":130.513,"end":151.334,"text":"國人等這一天等了十年台中中部人犧牲了十年賴清的總統還特別感謝了立法院通過核管法感謝了在野黨院長您看這照片昨天聯合報刊出照片拍攝的時間是2019年帶頭走在前排的除了總統"},{"start":152.64,"end":170.218,"text":"還有卓院長從體制外走到體制內請問2026年的卓院長有什麼要對2019年的卓主席來說呢我想先問一下院長請問一下賴總統宣布這個政策您事先知情嗎"},{"start":173.268,"end":188.994,"text":"我再跟各位報告一次我們在今年的施政報告當中就明擺的寫出了所以這個是經過我們部會充分的了解討論之後所以你事先支持施政報告寫出的當然就是未來政府重大施政的方向"},{"start":189.793,"end":214.22,"text":"在這個第五頁合法法修法之後我們就已經處理了沒關係 您跟院長 院長跟總統有討論那當然是最好的這個是2月24號那請問一下院長有一個關鍵的問題啊重啟核二核三它是核能還是新核能那當然是傳統核能那所以我們之前在討論的核廢有解 社會共識 核安無慮"},{"start":215.376,"end":241.127,"text":"那不是白討論了嗎這不是新核能啊他不是新核能所以他現在提出自主安全檢查跟再運轉計畫這就是安全當然他會提出這樣的計畫必須提出但是之前的核核三就是朝這樣子的核安無虞持續的努力也持續的在做當時你們就在反核能啊因為核電廠的使用年限40年是法律規定啊"},{"start":242.167,"end":265,"text":"剛剛還有委員在講啊 國際的情勢啊 地緣政治的不穩定啊我們應該對內啊 團結 相堅和太極但今天我要講的是啊 是你在逼中部人啊 你在逼官逼民反啊你看我們的生命煩憂啊 有多少人罹患肺腺癌啊"},{"start":266.232,"end":291.286,"text":"所以不要再說香煎河40年是法律期限是你在逼人造反委員你要了解法律好不好所以我要問一下作為政策的選擇我要再強調廢核沒有不對發展再生能源也沒有不對但重點是能源的韌性有沒有兼顧到我們看到2025年發電的占比再生能源13.1"},{"start":294.284,"end":300.092,"text":"當時蔡英文總統所承諾的跳票你們就應該要亡羊補牢可是沒有看到南美高達了35.4%我們要跟大家講民進黨"},{"start":311.636,"end":328.879,"text":"很會話術治國很喜歡教大家韌性喔大家可以聽聽看產業要韌性金融要韌性再來全社會防禦韌性委員會但是為什麼沒有能源韌性我們的人源變成脆化"},{"start":330.011,"end":356.594,"text":"二次能源轉型就是多元發展各方的能源來源這個就是一種韌性五煤中火應該要提前核電重啟的階段電力的缺口怎麼補就是燃煤空污就是關乎到中部人的健康每天面對灰濛濛的天氣空氣的品質我們台中人中部人承受過去的決策成本我們用生命"},{"start":358.075,"end":371.759,"text":"來證明你們的政策是錯的你們的能源政策是立下是用我們的生命來買單的長期就是用非發電所以現在我要跟您請問一下現在的前提已經改變了當時你宣布是在非核家園的時候說2034年才能夠無煤中火"},{"start":384.744,"end":411.974,"text":"今天核二核三要重啟要用核能來減煤來減碳在這個新的情勢下2028無煤中火不只是做得到更應該要往前目標應該推進到2027年無煤中火這是要不要做的問題所以今天我想問請問一下院長您還是堅持2034無煤中火嗎請回答"},{"start":415.056,"end":423.527,"text":"2028這一年是不是會有傳統核能能夠重啟目前都還是未知數但是台電在做的是加速台中火力發電廠"},{"start":424.673,"end":442.727,"text":"燃氣機組的更換好 2028如果和和山重啟請問您還是堅持2034無煤中火嗎 請回答委員您應該記得我去年到台中中火的時候我就說過那時候沒有所謂重啟不重啟核電廠的問題對 您說2034沒有 我說我希望提到2032"},{"start":444.068,"end":466.814,"text":"台電也努力在努力所以2028如果能夠重啟核二核三你還是堅持2032是嗎沒辦法做到我們立法院三讀的決議2028嗎這種前提的假設2028台中地區包括我們中部的精密智慧新核心用電量有多少是不是能夠完全把中火全部關起來是委員跟我們共同面對的問題"},{"start":469.275,"end":496.292,"text":"以後行政院院會直接拉到我們中部來辦讓民進黨的官員讓剛剛上一位何新淳委員能夠多吸一下我們台中中部的空氣我們看到何新淳委員在第九屆的時候力推2025非核家園當時還拒絕我提案的2028無煤中火"},{"start":498.817,"end":518.127,"text":"當時2025的非核家園是在電業法裡面規定的是法律的規定一定要講啊不要再硬拗了這就是你們的錯誤能源政策啦那再來我要講的是喔院長請問一下去年12月4日行政院院會通過要事法還有要害救濟法修正案"},{"start":520.035,"end":534.31,"text":"請問這兩案行政院院會會議討論時行政院的法規會對內容有沒有提出意見或保留意見?部會送的法律修正案都會經過我們的業務單位還有政委來審慎的審查過內容"},{"start":540.459,"end":561.751,"text":"兩年前政府在藥品的調度上嚴重失靈導致全台生理食鹽水輸出液短缺本席在院會就質詢揭發衛福部沒有在法院依據的情況下貿然進口未取得藥品許可證的輸液供國人使用"},{"start":563.252,"end":590.251,"text":"受害人甚至無法依藥害救濟法申請補償等同國家帶頭違法院長你還記得這件事嗎當然也許我們不喜歡聽我們現在還有一個藥品任性的方式在處理當時啊邱部長就在你旁邊還大剌剌的說啊我們沒有錯堅持整個政策是合理的甚至用樣品用類推試用"},{"start":592.429,"end":611.525,"text":"試圖來掩飾沒有法源依據的行為廉政署114年8月8日回函給我也說時宜符合要事法第27條之二的立法目的隨後食藥署就說類推試用這樣子整個結案整個行政的過程荒謬"},{"start":612.728,"end":631.697,"text":"我們是在解決問題我們是在解決問題當下跟我講說沒有錯沒有錯我們是對的我們是對的結果呢後面偷偷的修法你當時承諾你是錯誤的趕緊來補正不就好了嗎同一個法規會"},{"start":633.191,"end":643.822,"text":"面對同一個事件113年喔說符合立法目的114年修法的時候卻又承認原有的法治有漏洞這不是兩套標準是什麼"},{"start":644.929,"end":663.419,"text":"你們的法規會也很民進黨耶院長你是法律人對法律要有依據這件事情應該是最清楚不過的啊他們是揣摩上意的公務人員啊兩年前的政府在任何沒有明確的法源依據的時候同意進口"},{"start":664.232,"end":687.402,"text":"沒有取得我國藥品許可證的大數據白話一點說整個藥事法就是所謂的禁藥更離譜的說這些輸出益還是高於我國健保給付的數倍的價格來合計健保端也同意平常約兩到三倍來支付最後由全民買單"},{"start":689.366,"end":715.946,"text":"每次我們在講健保會破產就是這些錯誤的政策導致的吧院長兩年後了藥事法 藥害救濟法也已經在1月30日刪讀那這一次藥事法 藥害救濟法修正到底是在補誰的錯補行政院法規會的漏洞還是補當年決策的官員漏洞所以我要講違反行政"},{"start":717.474,"end":726.493,"text":"試射圖例現在已經證實你們事後靠修法補上了專案進口輸液的法源代表當時"},{"start":728.702,"end":755.412,"text":"衛福部沒有法源就先做請問院長我們違法在前修法在後在法律上是不是已經構成了明知違背法令的違法行政有沒有任何圖利特定廠商的嫌疑那個時候我就說請廉政署要調查114年8月8日回我行政院法規會認為沒有違法所以不用查"},{"start":757.13,"end":778.086,"text":"到了114年12月4日法官會自己又承認原有的法治確實有漏洞所以現在情況很清楚明知違背法令又涉及健保給付國庫出錢就是利益問題當初別人說好你就好現在別人說不好你就不好廉政署要不要重啟調查"},{"start":779.765,"end":800.32,"text":"我還是很遺憾委員一直忽略我們解決問題的努力也忽略我們現在增加任性的努力事後解決問題過程有違法疑慮我們要不要辦嘛跟委員說明我們這一次的修法主要是要擴大我們這個藥品的任性同時把過去的那麼以專案"},{"start":801.199,"end":825.367,"text":"這個缺藥的情況下專案進口的藥物也納入了藥害救濟的範圍雖然你當時不是部長你當時是健保署署長你同意專案進口對健保署估計的財政衝擊兩億多當時只有內部審查的委員私下跟本席透露他們也覺得為何要付這麼高的價錢很不合理"},{"start":826.26,"end":846.568,"text":"你也沒有卸責的權利啊英國110年最高刑事大法庭統一見解凡是公務員對主管或者是監督事務的積極或消極不作為與不法利益皆有因果關係及成立圖利"},{"start":848.513,"end":876.99,"text":"你們應該比照柯文哲案啊所以我希望人都是依法來辦理來解決問題請院長針對整個行政體系當中最高層級的法治審查單位行政院法規會對於這一次要是法要害就計法修正案能夠與其113年7月10日就本案法源依據回覆我說廉政署之嚴議的意見兩者有"},{"start":878.885,"end":903.771,"text":"和不同之處能夠給本席一個確定的答案讓我知道一下為什麼同一個法規會會有兩套標準可不可以承諾回我我們在增加藥品韌性的過程當中我們必須檢討過去不足的地方那如果任何一個修法都是因為之前圖例而修法那這個邏輯不成那委員所要的資料委員所要的資料我們可以"},{"start":909.028,"end":929.381,"text":"會後來跟委員說明好 謝謝另外我想再請問一下我們現在ART美國新藥六個月可以直接在台上市案3月13日我們台美在華盛頓簽署的台美對等貿易的協定美國要求醫療部門"},{"start":930.598,"end":941.605,"text":"未來美國食藥署通過的藥品六個月內自動取得台灣的藥證等於台灣不需要做任何的人體實驗針對外界的質疑食藥署的回應"},{"start":943.578,"end":970.365,"text":"他們現在回應的是說在藥品領域未來將在符合國際規範下參考美國食品藥物管理局審查的結果以減少重複的評估加速審查流程讓病人可以及早取得現在的創新治療但我國仍有最終核准與否的裁量權並非自動承認院長請問這樣的回應"},{"start":973.139,"end":974.613,"text":"為什麼從官網上被下架"},{"start":976.465,"end":1003.707,"text":"那請部長說明他得罪美國喔他得罪美國喔我們再了解一下這個剛剛說法完全是正確的正確的 你上了官網為什麼下架我們是有最終的核准權並不是直接採納他只是在審查的過程當中參考了不需要害怕沒有問題的 這個沒有問題那時候可以上架我們隨時可以上架 我了解一下本席肯定啊"},{"start":1004.898,"end":1022.965,"text":"支持台美ART縮短新藥上市的時間不用擔心讓病人更快能夠取得新藥對醫病產業都具有正面的意義然而相較之下我國現行的審查制度優先審查制度並會設有國產新藥跟本土創新專屬的優先審查制度顯示我們現在審查優惠的對等性"},{"start":1033.96,"end":1052.651,"text":"雖然石部長2月13日的報導指出,優化美國的新品審查的一個制度流程主要影響新藥,對本土發展的學名藥較無影響但是國內製造的新藥也適用於相同的審查原則"},{"start":1055.748,"end":1081.234,"text":"我們對國內的新藥的話也都是有加速審查的機制但是院長 石部長說的內容但現在仍未見衛福部有任何具體化的文字請問何時會公布我們近期就會有新的加速審查的程序來對外公開好 我四點具體的建議第一 新藥比照美國六個月完成審查"},{"start":1082.401,"end":1091.253,"text":"第二 CDE 的質詢新藥審查期限四個月完成第三 健保國產新藥給予從優的合理藥價"},{"start":1095.578,"end":1114.528,"text":"第四 打造台灣研發全球首發新藥的激勵制度請問一下 部長可以介紹嗎對於國產新藥我們現在就有從優合理的藥價機制在健保的機制裡面已經有在這個藥品這個"},{"start":1116.691,"end":1132.231,"text":"支付標準裡面已經有寫了那另外呢對於台灣研發的全球首發新藥呢我們也重新定位那麼在去年四月也公告了新的法規擴大台灣首發新藥的試用所以這兩個我們都已經做到了"},{"start":1132.631,"end":1161.427,"text":"另外兩個嘛再來我提出四點就是相關的產業還是覺得激勵的制度能夠正在優化所以這些都是為了台灣在努力為了健康在努力市長我所提出的方向您覺得可以嗎所發的新藥我們都在努力的在那至於說所有的新藥的審查或者是諮詢在多少時間內這個我們還有不同因為他的這個所提供的資訊"},{"start":1162.605,"end":1189.181,"text":"材料那麼都不一樣證據都不一樣不可能全體都是要在六個月內完成審查這個是辦不到啊但是我們提到的是你在美國已經拿到這個這個藥證的他的資料應該已經完備了送過來相對就完整才能夠加速並不是所有的新藥都比照辦理這個是不可能辦到所以還是要看為什麼對於現在台灣新藥不可能辦到"},{"start":1190.434,"end":1217.257,"text":"不是對台灣的新藥是所有的新藥並沒有對台灣的新藥有特別的延宕不是的是所有的新藥食物上在持有加速的審查機制有加速審查機制絕對沒有問題加速審查機制就是我在這裡是具體要做的所以我希望部長我們一起為他們來努力好不好沒有問題很支持院長"},{"start":1218.257,"end":1245.195,"text":"明天教文委員會會排審學校衛生法請問院長是否支持把禁止使用含乙型受體素肉品明文寫進學校衛生法我們在學校包括營養午餐的部分的使用不都一直照這個標準在做嗎那請問一下如果寫進入法可以嗎跟委員說明我們是"},{"start":1245.908,"end":1267.897,"text":"既然我們都依照往例都在執行了那所以我把它寫進入法沒有問題囉我可以這樣子來解讀囉我們應該是說按照現在的食品的標準那麼就OK了不需要去特別的去明訂既然都已經做了為什麼不能入法一定會按照合格的食品標準如果要寫就全部都要寫了"},{"start":1269.718,"end":1289.471,"text":"這些東西不需要在這邊玩文字遊戲我們就是講很清楚 既然已經在做了我們就應該要立法在做最後的一個階段把它完成我今天要再講另外一個議題去中國要NFBAP為什麼台灣不能"},{"start":1290.509,"end":1302.096,"text":"一句美國豬肉的查核報告裡面有提及英文的縮寫是NFBAP的制度我想請問一下院長您知道這個制度嗎那請委員來說明沒關係從未為時已行受體數計畫美國有這個計畫有這個制度"},{"start":1311.24,"end":1334.422,"text":"美國這個制度經美國農業行銷署的一個認證將參與這個制度的豬隻未使用萊克多巴胺這類產品可以出口到中國大陸但是如果減出但低於極限值就可以銷往其他市場我想問一下"},{"start":1336.135,"end":1351.567,"text":"為什麼中國大陸可以要求要NFBAP的組織台灣不行我們台灣很清楚的邏輯我們講求的食品安全是世界標準我們是科學根據跟國際標準不是中國標準"},{"start":1355.455,"end":1383.257,"text":"我們現在是什麼標準我們要求的是最嚴格的標準我們要求科學根據跟國際標準根據資料我們不能追求中國標準根據資料沒有意義現在113年到114年3月輸台灣的美國豬肉生產設施有46家其中26家有參與NFBAP制度有20家沒有參與"},{"start":1384.696,"end":1412.784,"text":"所以我要講的是你管他哪一國對國人的健康是最好的現在我要的是最嚴格的標準啊為什麼我要最嚴格的標準這都是民進黨教我的啊我本席先具體的要求政府應向美方要求銷往中國大陸僅輸台NFBAP"},{"start":1414.795,"end":1436.557,"text":"一樣認證的美豬美牛第二要求美方提供官方的證明文件著名產品是屬於NFBAP制度的認證來源確保食安而本席也會在院會作出決議院長您覺得呢"},{"start":1437.81,"end":1462.538,"text":"我覺得我們沒有必要追尋某一個特別國家的獨特的規範我們追求的是科學根據跟國際標準這樣台灣才能走入國際市場國際也才能夠走入台灣我們看下一個PTT院長一定會回這些國際標準 科學數據 早就知道了但是院長 當時將萊克多巴胺 Codex"},{"start":1463.328,"end":1472.71,"text":"整個妖魔化的是民進黨當初民進黨高舉的美牛是毒牛反對瘦肉精的口號這些歷歷在目"},{"start":1474.116,"end":1495.621,"text":"所以當時你是依照中國大陸的制度 是嗎當時有沒有被列為風險可忽略的國家 美國有沒有被列為...委員要把時間序弄清楚才講說為什麼我們在面對國際標準的時候是承接哪一個國際的標準所以當時馬英九在做總統的時候 當時沒有國際標準"},{"start":1500.248,"end":1505.364,"text":"當時說吃一點毒就是吸毒這一套民進黨的說法現在完全不適用"},{"start":1507.86,"end":1528.099,"text":"當美國被列為風險可忽略國家的時候整個國際的標準是在轉換但是不斷的對自己的承諾打臉我們現在都看得到我後面原本還想談啊院長過去蔡英文蘇貞昌對全民的承諾是採逐批檢視查驗及赴美查掌"},{"start":1529.27,"end":1535.293,"text":"現在校正回歸我們都可以看到表格110年到111年100%的逐批檢視查驗到113年7月3日查驗2%一攀來做一個抽批驗"},{"start":1551.657,"end":1574.506,"text":"請問一下隨著時間可以遞減隨著時間國人的健康可以不用再持續的檢查跟委員說明我們不是隨著時間遞減而是根據查驗的結果如果一直查驗都是安全一直查驗就是安全所以把門火炸開讓國人的健康開始有漏洞"},{"start":1575.626,"end":1600.454,"text":"這個都是根據查驗的結果去調整你既然查驗的結果是希望國人健康你就應該繼續做下去好的政策繼續延續啊這個是我們的標準查驗的方式你查到之後我們就會加嚴那麼如果一直都是安全的那我們就會調整這個抽驗的批次這個都是標準的做法從嚴到鬆啊 死安誰顧"},{"start":1602.185,"end":1627.866,"text":"所以這就是我今天要講的我當然知道你查到了基本上都沒問題所以你放寬啊可是我今天就是要提醒你不能放寬啊這個是一致的標準從各國來的都一樣只要有查到那我們就會增加抽驗的批次我們比照的是之前蔡英文跟蘇貞昌的一個承諾也比照的是"},{"start":1628.652,"end":1646.317,"text":"民進黨所說的吸一點毒都是毒用最高最嚴格的標準去看所以我們希望委員台中發生非洲豬瘟讓我們的豬肉沒有辦法走進國際市場這就是民進黨最壞的當我在跟你講的時候你就會扯別題不是我們現在準備進入國際市場"},{"start":1648.477,"end":1674.019,"text":"有問題也是請問一下你它叫非洲豬瘟還是台中豬瘟它是從我們的國門進來的還是台中自己會產生我不要這麼大聲我是說我們現在走入國際市場其他各國也是用國際標準來檢驗我們它如果設定一個高於特殊的標準我們也會提出任何的異議我們走入國際市場是如此國際走入台灣也是如此"},{"start":1675.28,"end":1690.751,"text":"但今天我在跟你講食安要重演的時候你在趕快搬台中豬瘟不是嗎我們現在進到國際市場也是國際標準在檢驗我們啊所以我就問你嘛台中豬瘟是台中自產的我說台中發生非洲豬瘟謝謝你"},{"start":1693.412,"end":1716.916,"text":"謝謝你講出了實際的話本來就是這個樣子啊所以我們現在進入國際市場我今天要的是什麼我們的國門要更加嚴守不管是未來會發生非洲豬瘟的可能性我們要更加嚴守不管是現在我們看到了我們的逐批查驗變成抽批查驗我們也是要嚴守我的標準都是一致的"},{"start":1717.318,"end":1735.348,"text":"我們在談判的過程也會堅守食品安全國人健康這個原則不會放棄的委員放心主委長我對於我們三線高價延伸大清烏日整體的我們現在鐵路高價化最關鍵的一段"},{"start":1736.806,"end":1757.664,"text":"也是未來山海線整合捷運南線跟整個串聯綠線的核心工程市府在去年7月已經完成了山線高架海線雙軌化捷運直線的三項重大建設的修正報告提交交通部我記得交通部也多次"},{"start":1758.43,"end":1771.8,"text":"有建議台中市政府應該要再做相關的修正也都陸續到位到交通部了我想問一下現在目前交通部能不能再更加努力的加速這個流程"},{"start":1772.578,"end":1799.665,"text":"報告委員目前他們送過來的時間是115年的3月6號那我們現在鐵道局正在審議當中是不是能夠幫我們加速一下因為現在不管是我或者是許多的立委甚至我們江啟臣副院長對於現在鐵路高架的話都會有關於牽涉到未來台中高鐵娛樂城相關的交通我相信您駐台中"},{"start":1800.425,"end":1812.382,"text":"部長您尖峰時刻回到了高鐵你也會卡在建國北路上我這個部分不管是我江副院長我也要再特別問你74號線預留銜接閘道到高鐵站二樓"},{"start":1816.528,"end":1842.37,"text":"院長我們今天要談的最後是台七四線的閘道銜接高鐵站二樓這個很重要這是當年中央在設計台七四線的時候主導預留的銜接口目的很明確就是未來要把高鐵站交通做立體分流我們也多次的考察到現在都還沒有具體可不可以給我一個回應可行性研究市政府正在做我們等待市政府的可行性研究出來"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:46:12.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:46:17.381000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長、顧部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-24T10:46:17.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:46:21.305000+08:00","text":"請卓院長、國防部顧部長備詢。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:46:22.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:46:22.266000+08:00","text":"羅委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:46:37.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:46:37.884000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:46:39.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:46:52.156000+08:00","text":"外交國防委員會這週排審軍購條例，昨天有問顧部長，他說這是你的權責，所以要請問院長，如果軍購案通過的是在野黨的版本，請問你會選擇副署還是不副署？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:46:54.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:01.384000+08:00","text":"我請在野黨黨團跟國防外交委員會能夠持續地跟國防部保持更多的溝通……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:01.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:02.384000+08:00","text":"相信他們會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:02.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:05.107000+08:00","text":"希望能夠依照院版來通過，那就沒有其他問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:05.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:08.190000+08:00","text":"如果是通過了在野黨版本，請問你會副署還是不副署？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:09.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:11.313000+08:00","text":"不要問這種假設性的問題，我說過只要……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:11.313000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:13.575000+08:00","text":"我沒有問假設性的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:13.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:15.016000+08:00","text":"只要不違憲、不違法……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:15.016000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:20.140000+08:00","text":"有沒有違憲是大法官來決定的，現在是您在決定違憲嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:20.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:27.585000+08:00","text":"拜託聽我講，不違憲、不違法、不破壞國家財政、不影響國家安全，經過充分的討論、民主的程序，行政院沒有……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:27.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:30.207000+08:00","text":"所以是現在不方便回答副署、不副署，是嗎？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:30.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:40.955000+08:00","text":"我現在請國防部顧部長努力說服我們大院的同仁們，依照行政院版通過，我們才有臺灣之盾，我們才有……我們才有本土產業。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:40.955000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:42.135000+08:00","text":"謝謝，因為你不願意回答，我們就下一題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:42.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:46.038000+08:00","text":"再來想跟您詢問，核電回來了！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:46.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:49.780000+08:00","text":"就必須換臺中人一口氣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:50.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:47:57.385000+08:00","text":"非核家園一直以來都是民進黨的神主牌，就在上週賴清德總統在臺中宣布要重啟核二、核三。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:47:57.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:48:07.071000+08:00","text":"面對氣候的變遷、供電的吃緊、再生能源推升困難的現實，面對上一代錯誤的政策，這一代終於說不了。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:48:07.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:48:40.651000+08:00","text":"院長，國人等這一天等了10年，中部人犧牲了10年，賴清德總統還特別感謝了立法院通過核管法，感謝了在野黨，院長您看這照片，昨天聯合報刊出照片拍攝時間是2019年，帶頭走在前排的除了總統，還有卓院長，從體制外走到體制內，請問2026年的卓院長有什麼要對2019年的卓主席說呢？","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:48:41.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:48:48.218000+08:00","text":"我想先請問院長，賴總統宣布這個政策，您事先知情嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:48:51.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:01.232000+08:00","text":"我再跟委員報告一次，我們在今年的施政報告當中就明白的寫出了，所以這是經過我們部會充分的了解、討論之後……","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:01.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:02.652000+08:00","text":"所以你事先支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:03.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:10.894000+08:00","text":"施政報告寫的當然就是未來政府重大施政的方向，在施政報告第5頁核管法修法之後，我們就已經處理了。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:10.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:14.935000+08:00","text":"沒關係，院長跟總統有討論當然是最好的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:15.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:15.435000+08:00","text":"這是2月24號我們提出的。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:16.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:23.637000+08:00","text":"請問院長，有一個關鍵的問題，重啟核二、核三，它是核能還是新核能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:24.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:24.978000+08:00","text":"它當然是傳統核能。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:26.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:34.797000+08:00","text":"所以我們之前在討論的核廢有解、社會共識、核安無慮，那不是白討論了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:34.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:35.797000+08:00","text":"不會啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:34.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:35.857000+08:00","text":"這不是新核能啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:36.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:42.080000+08:00","text":"它不是新核能，所以它現在提出自主安全檢查跟再運轉計畫，這就是安全。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:43.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:44.701000+08:00","text":"它當然會提出這樣的計畫……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:44.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:44.981000+08:00","text":"必須提出。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:45.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:54.945000+08:00","text":"但是之前的核二、核三就是朝這樣的核安無虞持續的努力，也持續的在做，當時你們就在反核能嘛！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:55.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:49:58.947000+08:00","text":"因為核電廠的使用年限40年是法律規定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:49:58.947000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:00.167000+08:00","text":"所以我們看到的就是兩套標準啊！","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:00.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:13.735000+08:00","text":"剛剛還有委員在講國際的情勢、地緣政治不穩定，我們應該對內團結，相煎何太急，但今天我要講的是你在逼中部人……","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:13.735000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:15.736000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有，沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:15.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:17.016000+08:00","text":"官逼民反啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:17.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:19.978000+08:00","text":"你讓我們的生命堪憂啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:19.978000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:20.978000+08:00","text":"核電廠40年壽命是法定期限。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:20.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:22.639000+08:00","text":"有多少人罹患肺腺癌？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:24.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:25.953000+08:00","text":"所以不要再說相煎何太急了。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:26.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:27.294000+08:00","text":"40年是法律期限，必須除役耶。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:27.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:29.455000+08:00","text":"是你在逼人民造反！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:29.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:31.196000+08:00","text":"委員，你要了解法律，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:31.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:45.344000+08:00","text":"所以我要問一下，作為政策的選擇，我要再強調廢核沒有不對，發展再生能源也沒有不對，但重點是能源的韌性有沒有兼顧到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:46.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:57.611000+08:00","text":"我們看到2025年發電的占比，再生能源13.1%，當時蔡英文總統的承諾跳票，你們就應該要亡羊補牢，可是沒有看到啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:57.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:50:58.611000+08:00","text":"我們是持續發展二次能源轉型。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:50:57.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:13.722000+08:00","text":"燃煤高達了35.4%，我們要跟大家講，民進黨很會話術治國，很喜歡教大家韌性喔！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:14.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:26.859000+08:00","text":"大家可以聽聽看，產業要韌性、金融要韌性，再來全社會防禦韌性委員會，但是為什麼沒有能源韌性，以致我們的能源脆化？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:28.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:33.276000+08:00","text":"二次能源轉型就是多元發展各方的能源來源，這個就是韌性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:33.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:40.882000+08:00","text":"2028年無煤中火應該要提前，核電重啟的階段，電力的缺口怎麼補？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:40.882000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:41.882000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在備轉……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:40.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:58.096000+08:00","text":"就是燃煤、空污，就是關乎到中部人的健康，每天面對灰濛濛的天氣、空氣品質，我們臺中人、中部人承受過去的決策成本，我們用生命來證明你們的政策是錯的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:58.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:51:59.236000+08:00","text":"這10年來用煤量已經大量下降……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:51:59.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:01.277000+08:00","text":"你們的能源政策跟理想……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:01.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:02.337000+08:00","text":"這是事實。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:02.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:05.738000+08:00","text":"是用我們的生命來買單的，長期就是用肺發電。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:05.738000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:06.738000+08:00","text":"這10年來用煤量有下降，委員必須正視這個事實。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:05.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:07.198000+08:00","text":"所以，現在我要跟您請問一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:07.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:08.198000+08:00","text":"事實問題委員都沒有正視……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:07.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:42.071000+08:00","text":"現在的前提已經改變了，當時你宣布是在非核家園的時候說2034年才能夠無煤中火，今天核二、核三要重啟，要用核能來減煤、來減碳，在這個新的情勢下，2028年無煤中火不只是做得到，更應該要往前，目標應該推進到2027年無煤中火，這是要不要做的問題。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:42.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:49.834000+08:00","text":"所以今天我想問，請問一下院長，您還是堅持2034年無煤中火嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:49.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:52:49.954000+08:00","text":"請回答！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:52:53.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:03.934000+08:00","text":"2028這一年是不是會有傳統核能能夠重啟，目前都還是未知數，但是台電在做的是加速臺中火力發電廠燃氣機組的更換。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:05.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:11.380000+08:00","text":"2028年如果核二、核三重啟，請問您還是堅持2034年無煤中火嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:11.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:11.520000+08:00","text":"請回答！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:12.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:18.085000+08:00","text":"委員，你應該記得我去年到臺中中火的時候就說過，那時候沒有所謂重啟不重啟核電廠的問題……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:18.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:19.286000+08:00","text":"對，您說2034。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:19.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:23.308000+08:00","text":"沒有，我說我希望提前到2032，台電也在努力。好，2032年。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:23.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:28.810000+08:00","text":"所以2028年如果能夠重啟核二、核三，你還是堅持2032年，是嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:28.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:34.071000+08:00","text":"沒辦法做到我們立法院三讀的決議2028年嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:34.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:53:44.814000+08:00","text":"這種前提的假設，2028年臺中地區包括我們中部的精密智慧性新核心用電量有多少、是不是能夠完全把中火關起來，是委員跟我們共同面對的問題。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:53:47.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:01.244000+08:00","text":"我具體的向院長建議，以後行政院院會直接拉到我們中部來辦，讓民進黨的官員、讓剛剛上一位質詢的何欣純委員能夠多吸一下我們臺中、中部的空氣。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:01.244000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:02.244000+08:00","text":"臺中我常去。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:01.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:14.272000+08:00","text":"我們看到何欣純委員在第9屆的時候力推2025非核家園，當時還拒絕我提案的2028年無煤中火，我們感到非常非常……","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:16.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:20.159000+08:00","text":"當時2025非核家園是在電業法裡面規定的，是法律的規定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:20.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:24.521000+08:00","text":"所以我一定要講，不要再硬拗了，這就是你們的錯誤能源政策。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:25.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:48.406000+08:00","text":"再來我要講的是，院長，請問一下去年12月4日行政院院會通過藥事法還有藥害救濟法修正案，請問這兩案在行政院院會會議討論時，行政院的法規會對內容有沒有提出意見或保留意見？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:48.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:54:52.290000+08:00","text":"部會送的法律修正案，都會經過我們的業務單位還有政委審慎地審查過內容。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:54:58.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:07.384000+08:00","text":"兩年前，政府在藥品的調度上嚴重失靈，導致全臺生理食鹽水輸出液短缺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:07.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:19.731000+08:00","text":"本席在院會就質詢，揭發衛福部在沒有法源依據的情況下，貿然進口未取得藥品許可證的輸液供國人使用！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:21.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:27.797000+08:00","text":"受害人甚至無法依藥害救濟法申請補償，等同國家帶頭違法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:28.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:30.179000+08:00","text":"院長，你還記得這件事嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:30.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:38.885000+08:00","text":"當然，也許委員不喜歡聽，我們現在還有藥品韌性的一個方式在處理，藥品還是需要韌性。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：當時邱部長就在你旁邊，還大剌剌地說","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:40.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:43.348000+08:00","text":"我們沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：當時邱部長就在你旁邊，還大剌剌地說","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:43.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:55:53.471000+08:00","text":"堅持整個政策是合理的，甚至用樣品、類推適用來試圖掩飾沒有法源依據的行為。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：當時邱部長就在你旁邊，還大剌剌地說","start":"2026-03-24T10:55:53.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:06.643000+08:00","text":"廉政署114年8月8日回函給我，也說實應符合藥事法第二十七條之二的立法目的，隨後食藥署就說類推適用，這樣子整個結案。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：當時邱部長就在你旁邊，還大剌剌地說","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:07.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:09.525000+08:00","text":"整個行政的過程荒謬！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:10.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:13.229000+08:00","text":"我們是在解決問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:13.229000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:14.229000+08:00","text":"讓人難以接受啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:13.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:15.450000+08:00","text":"我們是在解決問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:16.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:19.472000+08:00","text":"沒有錯、沒有錯，我們是對的、我們是對的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:20.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:20.193000+08:00","text":"結果呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:20.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:22.674000+08:00","text":"後面偷偷地修法。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:23.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:29.257000+08:00","text":"你當時承認你是錯誤的，趕緊補正不就好了嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:29.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:41.822000+08:00","text":"同一個法規會面對同一個事件，113年說符合立法目的，114年修法的時候卻又承認原有的法制有漏洞，這不是兩套標準又是什麼！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:42.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:45.190000+08:00","text":"你們的法規會也很民進黨耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：解決什麼問題？當下跟我講","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:45.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:48.932000+08:00","text":"院長，你是法律人，對法律要有依據……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:48.932000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:49.932000+08:00","text":"他們是常任公務員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:48.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:56:55.095000+08:00","text":"這件事情應該是最清楚不過的，他們是揣摩上意的公務人員哪！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:56:55.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:07.174000+08:00","text":"兩年前，政府在沒有任何明確法源依據的時候，同意進口沒有取得我國藥品許可證的……","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:07.174000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:08.174000+08:00","text":"委員一直在懷疑我們解決問題的努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:07.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:20.080000+08:00","text":"白話一點地說，整個藥事法，就是所謂的禁藥，更離譜地說，這些輸出液還是以高於我國健保給付數倍的價格來核給！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:21.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:25.402000+08:00","text":"健保端也同意……平常約兩到三倍來支付，最後由全民買單耶！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:27.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:31.930000+08:00","text":"每次我們在講健保會破產，就是這些錯誤政策導致的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:32.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:39.235000+08:00","text":"院長，兩年後了，藥事法、藥害救濟法也已經在1月30日三讀。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:39.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:45.560000+08:00","text":"這一次藥事法、藥害救濟法修正到底是在補誰的錯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:45.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:57:50.224000+08:00","text":"補行政院法規會的漏洞，還是補當年決策官員的漏洞？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:57:51.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:58:08.303000+08:00","text":"所以我要講「違反行政，事涉圖利」，現在已經證實你們事後靠修法補上了專案進口輸液的法源，代表當時衛福部沒有法源就先做。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:58:08.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:58:18.046000+08:00","text":"請問院長，違法在前、修法在後，在法律上是不是已經構成了明知違背法令的違法行政？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:58:18.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:58:21.507000+08:00","text":"有沒有任何圖利特定廠商的嫌疑？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:58:22.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:58:42.415000+08:00","text":"那個時候我就說請廉政署要調查，114年8月8日回函給我，行政院法規會認為沒有違法所以不用查，到了114年12月4日，法規會自己又承認原有的法制確實有漏洞。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:58:43.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:58:56.065000+08:00","text":"所以現在的情況很清楚，明知違背法令又涉及健保給付，國庫出錢就是利益問題，當初別人說好你就好，現在別人說不好你就不好，廉政署要不要重啟調查？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:58:56.065000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:58:57.765000+08:00","text":"請問一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:58:57.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:01.268000+08:00","text":"我還是很遺憾，委員一直忽略我們解決問題的努力……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:01.268000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:02.268000+08:00","text":"你那個是事後嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:01.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:04.750000+08:00","text":"也忽略我們現在增加韌性的努力。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:05.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:09.273000+08:00","text":"事後解決問題，過程有違法疑慮，我們要不要辦嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:09.273000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:10.554000+08:00","text":"請部長說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:10.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:24.461000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們這一次的修法主要是要擴大藥品的韌性，同時把過去缺藥的情況下，專案進口的藥物也納入藥害救濟的範圍，保障民眾權益。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:24.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:33.584000+08:00","text":"雖然你當時不是部長，你當時是健保署署長，你同意專案進口，對健保署估計的財政衝擊是兩億多啊！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:35.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:43.347000+08:00","text":"當時有內部審查的委員私下跟本席透露，他們也覺得為何要付這麼高的價錢、很不合理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:43.347000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:44.347000+08:00","text":"我跟委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:44.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:45.621000+08:00","text":"你也沒有卸責的權利。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:45.621000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T10:59:48.582000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，當時事出突然，需要……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T10:59:48.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:04.548000+08:00","text":"民國110年最高法院刑事大法庭統一見解，凡是公務員對主管或監督事務的積極或消極不作為，與不法利益間皆有因果關係，即成立圖利。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:06.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:07.954000+08:00","text":"你們應該比照柯文哲案啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:10.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:14.278000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們醫界同仁都是依法辦理來解決問題。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:14.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:45.947000+08:00","text":"所以我希望院長具體承諾，請院長針對整個行政體系當中最高層級的法制審查單位──行政院法規會對這次藥事法、藥害救濟法修正案，能夠與其113年7月10日就本案法源依據回復我說廉政署之研議意見兩者有何不同之處，能夠給本席一個確定的答案，讓我知道一下為什麼同一個法規會會有兩套標準。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:46.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:47.508000+08:00","text":"可不可以承諾回復我？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:48.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:53.589000+08:00","text":"我們在增加藥品韌性的過程當中必須檢討過去不足的地方……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:53.589000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:54.589000+08:00","text":"不好意思，可不可以回復我？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:54.589000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:55.589000+08:00","text":"請你就問題回答我！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:00:54.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:00:59.230000+08:00","text":"如果任何一個修法都是因為之前圖利而修法，那這個邏輯不成立。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:00.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:00.751000+08:00","text":"但委員所要的資料……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:00.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:01.751000+08:00","text":"請法規會回答我嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:01.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:02.751000+08:00","text":"為什麼會有兩套說法嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:00.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:08.669000+08:00","text":"委員所要的資料，我們會後可以向委員說明。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:08.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:10.230000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:10.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:19.336000+08:00","text":"另外請問ART美國新藥6個月可以直接在臺上市案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:20.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:01:38.264000+08:00","text":"3月13日臺美在華盛頓簽署臺美對等貿易協定，美國要求醫療部門，未來美國食藥署通過的藥品，6個月內自動取得臺灣的藥證，等於臺灣不需要做任何人體實驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:01:38.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:08.225000+08:00","text":"針對外界的質疑，食藥署現在的回應是說，在藥品領域，未來將在符合國際規範下，參考美國食品藥物管理局審查的結果，以減少重複評估，加速審查流程，讓病人可以及早取得現在的創新治療，但我國仍有最終核准與否的裁量權，並非自動承認。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:08.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:12.593000+08:00","text":"院長，請問這樣的回應為什麼從官網上被下架了？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:14.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:15.166000+08:00","text":"請部長說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:15.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:15.966000+08:00","text":"怕得罪美國喔？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:18.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:18.788000+08:00","text":"怕得罪美國喔？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:18.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:19.788000+08:00","text":"不是、不是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:19.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:20.230000+08:00","text":"我們再瞭解一下。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:21.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:23.072000+08:00","text":"剛剛的說法完全是正確的，我們……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:23.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:23.692000+08:00","text":"正確的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:24.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:25.854000+08:00","text":"那麼上了官網，為什麼下架？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:25.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:32.880000+08:00","text":"我們是有最終的核准權，並不是直接採納，只是在審查的過程當中，參考……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:33.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:34.601000+08:00","text":"守護國人的安全，不需要害怕！","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:35.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:36.963000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，這個沒有問題！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:37.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:37.663000+08:00","text":"哪時候可以上架？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:38.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:39.465000+08:00","text":"我們隨時可以上架。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:39.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:02:40.366000+08:00","text":"我再瞭解一下。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:02:40.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:03:00.945000+08:00","text":"本席肯定支持臺美ART縮短新藥上市的時間，不用擔心，讓病人能夠儘快取得新藥，對醫病、產業都具有正面的意義，然而相較之下，我國現行的優先審查制度並未設有國產新藥跟本土創新專屬的優先審查制度，顯示我們現在審查優惠的對等性。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:03:11.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:03:30.651000+08:00","text":"雖然石部長在2月13日的報導指出，優化美國新品審查制度的流程，主要影響新藥，對本土發展的學名藥較無影響，但是國內製造的新藥也適用相同的審查原則，對吧？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:03:33.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:03:36.649000+08:00","text":"對，我們對國內的新藥也都有加速審查的機制。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:03:36.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:03:45.711000+08:00","text":"但是院長，石部長說的內容現在仍未見衛福部有任何具體化的文字，請問何時會公布？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:03:47.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:03:52.672000+08:00","text":"我們近期就會有新的加速審查程序來對外公開。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：好，我有4點具體建議","start":"2026-03-24T11:03:55.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:21.402000+08:00","text":"第一，新藥比照美國6個月內完成審查；第二，CDE諮詢新藥審查限期4個月內完成；第三，健保國產新藥給予從優合理藥價；第四，打造「臺灣研發全球首發」的新藥激勵制度。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋：好，我有4點具體建議","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:22.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:25.584000+08:00","text":"請問部長可以接受嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:25.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:36.233000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，對於國產新藥，我們現在就有從優合理的藥價機制，在健保的機制當中，已經寫在藥品支付標準裡面了。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:36.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:50.211000+08:00","text":"另外，對於臺灣研發的全球首發新藥，我們也重新定位，在去年4月也公告了新的法規，擴大臺灣首發新藥的適用，所以這兩個我們都已經做到了。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:50.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:51.291000+08:00","text":"另外兩個呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:51.291000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:52.592000+08:00","text":"另外我們在……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:52.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:53.673000+08:00","text":"為什麼我會提出4點？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:53.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:04:58.235000+08:00","text":"就是相關的產業還是覺得激勵的制度能夠正在優化嘛！是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:04:58.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:02.958000+08:00","text":"所以這些都是為了臺灣在努力、為了健康在努力。對……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:04.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:06.620000+08:00","text":"院長，我所提出的方向，你覺得可以嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:06.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:09.021000+08:00","text":"所以對國產的新藥也好、首發新藥，我們都在努力的……","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:09.021000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:10.362000+08:00","text":"部長已經在回復了。對。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:10.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:27.389000+08:00","text":"至於所有新藥的審查或者是諮詢在多少時間內，這個我們還有不同，因為它所提供的資訊、材料都不一樣，證據都不一樣，不可能全體都是要在六個月內完成審查，這個是辦不到的。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:28.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:44.439000+08:00","text":"但是我們提到的是，已經在美國拿到藥證的，它的資料應該已經完備了，送過來相對就完整，才能夠加速，並不是所有的新藥都比照辦理，這個是不可能辦到，這還是要看個案。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:44.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:47.161000+08:00","text":"為什麼對於現在臺灣新藥不可能辦到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:48.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:58.323000+08:00","text":"不是，不是對臺灣新藥，而是所有的新藥，並沒有對臺灣的新藥有特別的延宕，不是的，是所有的新藥……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:58.323000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:05:59.944000+08:00","text":"當然我知道你們不會特別延宕嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:05:59.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:02.166000+08:00","text":"臺灣的首發新藥也有加速的審查機制。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:02.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:03.166000+08:00","text":"是實務上在處理時有困難度，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:02.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:04.968000+08:00","text":"有加速審查機制，絕對沒有問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:04.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:08.151000+08:00","text":"加速審查機制就是我在這一次具體建議要做的嘛！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:08.151000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:09.151000+08:00","text":"但是不能去設定要多少時間……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:08.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:13.795000+08:00","text":"所以我希望部長，我們一起為他們來努力，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:13.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:14.776000+08:00","text":"是，沒有問題、沒有問題，很支持！","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:15.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:31.387000+08:00","text":"院長，明天教文委員會會排審學校衛生法，請問院長是否支持把禁止使用含乙型受體素肉品明文寫進學校衛生法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:33.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:38.232000+08:00","text":"我們在學校包括營養午餐這部分的使用，不都一直照這個標準在做嗎？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:38.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:41.594000+08:00","text":"請問一下，如果寫進入法可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:41.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:43.175000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:43.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:53.052000+08:00","text":"既然我們依照往例都在執行了，所以我把它寫進入法沒有問題了，我們可以這樣子來解讀？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:53.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:06:58.614000+08:00","text":"我們應該是說按照現在的食品標準，那麼就OK了，不需要去特別的明定。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:06:59.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:01.155000+08:00","text":"既然都已經做了，為什麼不能入法？奇怪！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:02.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:05.877000+08:00","text":"一定會按照合格的食品標準，如果要寫就全部都要寫了，都要按照食品標準。唉！","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:07.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:10.660000+08:00","text":"這些東西不需要在這邊玩文字遊戲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:10.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:11.660000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在學校裡面，國產豬肉百分之百……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:10.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:17.764000+08:00","text":"我們就是講得很清楚，既然已經在做了，我們就應該要立法，在做最後的一個階段，把它完成。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:18.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:27.451000+08:00","text":"我今天要再講另外一個議題，去中國要NFBAP，為什麼臺灣不能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:28.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:38.955000+08:00","text":"依據美國豬肉的查核報告裡面有提及英文縮寫是NFBAP的制度，我想請問一下院長，您知道這個制度嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:39.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:07:39.356000+08:00","text":"請委員來說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:07:39.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:11.802000+08:00","text":"沒關係，從未餵食乙型受體素計畫，美國有這個計畫、有這個制度，美國這個制度經美國農業行銷署的認證，將參與這個制度的豬隻未使用萊克多巴胺，這類產品可以出口到中國大陸；如果檢出，但低於極限值，就可以銷往其他的市場。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:11.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:19.639000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，為什麼中國大陸可以要求要NFBAP的豬隻，臺灣不行？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:21.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:25.003000+08:00","text":"這個很清楚的邏輯，我們講求的……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:25.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:26.003000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣是比較不行嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:25.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:25.544000+08:00","text":"我們講求的食品安全……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:25.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:26.725000+08:00","text":"我們比較「細漢」嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:26.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:27.725000+08:00","text":"是世界標準……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:27.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:28.725000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣是塑膠的嗎？","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:28.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:29.547000+08:00","text":"我們是科學的根據跟國際標準，不是中國標準。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:33.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:35.116000+08:00","text":"我們現在是什麼標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:35.116000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:36.116000+08:00","text":"國際標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:35.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:38.379000+08:00","text":"我們要要求的是最嚴格的標準。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:38.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:08:43.163000+08:00","text":"我們要求科學根據跟國際標準，我們不能追求中國標準，沒有意義。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:08:43.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:01.257000+08:00","text":"根據資料，現在113年到114年3月輸臺灣的美國豬肉生產設施有46家，其中26家有參與NFBAP制度，有20家沒有參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:02.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:09.298000+08:00","text":"所以我要講的是，你管他哪一國，對國人的健康是最好……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:09.298000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:10.418000+08:00","text":"對、對，這句話就對了，委員對了，管他哪一國。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:10.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:14.760000+08:00","text":"現在我要的是最嚴格的標準。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:14.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:15.760000+08:00","text":"國際標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:15.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:16.760000+08:00","text":"我要最嚴格的標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:16.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:17.760000+08:00","text":"我們要國際的標準，跟國際標準對齊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:16.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:18.261000+08:00","text":"為什麼我要最嚴格的標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:19.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:20.962000+08:00","text":"這都是民進黨教我的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:22.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:35.498000+08:00","text":"本席先具體的要求政府，應向美方要求，比照銷往中國大陸，僅輸臺NFBAP一樣認證的美豬、美牛。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:37.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:53.896000+08:00","text":"第二，要求美方提供官方的證明文件，註明產品是屬於NFBAP制度的認證來源，確保食安，而本席也會在院會作出決議。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:53.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:09:54.537000+08:00","text":"院長，您覺得呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:09:55.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:08.334000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們沒有必要追尋某一個特別國家的獨特規範，我們追求的是科學根據跟國際標準，這樣臺灣才能走入國際市場，國際也才能夠走入臺灣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:09.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:15.496000+08:00","text":"院長一定會回國際標準、科學數據，早就知道了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:16.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:37.757000+08:00","text":"但是院長，當時將萊克多巴胺、CODEX整個妖魔化的是民進黨，當初民進黨高舉「美牛是毒牛，反對瘦肉精」的口號，這些歷歷在目，所以當時你是依照中國大陸的制度是嗎？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:37.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:40.438000+08:00","text":"當時有沒有被列為風險可忽略的國家……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:40.438000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:41.438000+08:00","text":"同一個政府啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:40.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:43.619000+08:00","text":"美國有沒有被列為……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:43.619000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:44.619000+08:00","text":"兩套標準非常明顯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:43.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:50.981000+08:00","text":"委員要把時間序弄清楚，才講說為什麼我們在面對國際標準的時候，是承接哪一個國際標準。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:51.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:10:53.601000+08:00","text":"所以當時馬英九在做總統的時候，當時沒有國際標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:10:58.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:03.343000+08:00","text":"當時說「吃一點毒就是吸毒」，這一套民進黨的說法現在完全不適用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:03.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:05.860000+08:00","text":"我要講的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:05.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:11.525000+08:00","text":"當美國被列為風險可忽略國家的時候，整個國際的標準是在轉換，包括它的檢測方式。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:11.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:16.150000+08:00","text":"同一個政府不斷地承諾，但是不斷地對自己的承諾打臉，我們現在都看得到。沒有。","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:17.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:28.971000+08:00","text":"我後面原本還想談，院長，過去蔡英文、蘇貞昌對全民的承諾是採逐批檢視、查驗及赴美查廠，現在校正回歸耶！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:28.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:30.071000+08:00","text":"我們都可以看到表格耶！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:30.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:31.071000+08:00","text":"這其中若干的部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:30.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:31.292000+08:00","text":"110年到111年……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:31.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:32.292000+08:00","text":"我們現在都是有的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:31.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:32.392000+08:00","text":"100%的逐批檢視查驗，到113年7月3日……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:32.392000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:33.392000+08:00","text":"請部長說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:33.392000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:34.392000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們都是根據查驗的結果做調整。","quality":0.105},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:32.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:51.458000+08:00","text":"是以2%來做一般的抽批，請問一下，隨著時間可以遞減？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:51.458000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:52.458000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:51.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:11:57.020000+08:00","text":"隨著時間，國人的健康可以不用再持續地檢查？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:11:57.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:03.742000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們不是隨著時間遞減，而是根據查驗的結果，如果一直查驗都是安全、安全、安全……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:03.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:05.463000+08:00","text":"一直查驗就是安全？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:05.463000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:06.463000+08:00","text":"我們就會調整抽驗的批次。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:06.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:12.486000+08:00","text":"所以把門戶大開，讓國人的健康開始有漏洞？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:12.486000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:13.626000+08:00","text":"危言聳聽。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:13.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:15.787000+08:00","text":"這個都是根據查驗的結果去調整的。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:15.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:24.389000+08:00","text":"既然查驗的結果是希望國人健康，你就應該繼續做下去，好的政策繼續延續啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:25.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:36.093000+08:00","text":"這個是我們的標準查驗方式，查到之後，我們就會加嚴，如果一直都是安全的，我們就會調整抽驗的批次，這個都是標準的做法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:37.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:38.454000+08:00","text":"從嚴到鬆，食安誰顧？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:40.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:46.890000+08:00","text":"所以這就是我今天要講的，我當然知道你查到的基本上都沒問題，所以你放寬啊！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:47.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:49.773000+08:00","text":"可是我今天就是要提醒你不能放寬啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:51.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:12:57.779000+08:00","text":"這個是一致的標準，從各國來的都一樣，只要有查到，我們就會增加抽驗的批次，但是如果一直都是沒有查到，我們就調整它的抽驗批次。","quality":0.582},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:12:58.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:12.874000+08:00","text":"我們比照的是之前蔡英文跟蘇貞昌的一個承諾，也比照的是民進黨所說的「吸一點毒都是毒」，用最高、最嚴格的標準去看，所以我們希望食安的部分應該要……","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:13.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:18.455000+08:00","text":"委員，臺中發生非洲豬瘟，讓我們的豬肉沒有辦法走進國際市場，我們現在……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:18.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:19.455000+08:00","text":"不要再扯別題啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:18.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:22.916000+08:00","text":"這就是民進黨最會的，當我在跟你講的時候，你就會扯別題……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:22.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:24.317000+08:00","text":"不是，我們現在準備進入國際市場……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:24.317000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:27.078000+08:00","text":"臺中發生豬瘟，有問題……不是。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:27.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:31.682000+08:00","text":"也請問一下你，它叫非洲豬瘟還是臺中豬瘟？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:32.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:36.506000+08:00","text":"它是從我們的國門進來的，還是臺中自己會產生？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:36.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:43.292000+08:00","text":"委員，不必要這麼大聲，我是說我們現在走入國際市場，其他各國也是用國際標準來檢驗我們……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:43.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:44.292000+08:00","text":"不要再跟我扯別題啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:43.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:51.999000+08:00","text":"它如果設定一個高於特殊的標準，我們也會提出任何的異議，我們走入國際市場是如此，國際走入臺灣也是如此。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:53.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:57.924000+08:00","text":"臺中有錯，該懲處的就該懲處，但今天我在跟你講食安要從嚴的時候，你就趕快搬臺中豬瘟來救駕。","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:58.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:13:59.545000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:13:59.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:02.407000+08:00","text":"我們現在進到國際市場，也是國際標準在檢驗我們啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:03.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:03.748000+08:00","text":"所以我就問你嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:04.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:06.089000+08:00","text":"臺中豬瘟是臺中自產的，還是它是非洲豬瘟？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:06.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:08.551000+08:00","text":"我說臺中發生非洲豬瘟。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:08.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:13.234000+08:00","text":"謝謝你，謝謝你講出了實際的話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:13.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:13.715000+08:00","text":"本來就是這個樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:13.715000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:14.715000+08:00","text":"所以我們共同努力嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:14.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:16.357000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在進入國際市場，也是國際標準不是嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:16.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:18.279000+08:00","text":"我今天要的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:18.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:34.896000+08:00","text":"我們的國門要更加嚴守，不管是未來會發生非洲豬瘟的可能性，我們要更加嚴守，不管是現在，我們看到了我們的逐批查驗變成抽批查驗，我們也是要嚴守，我的標準都是一致的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:35.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:14:43.382000+08:00","text":"我們在談判的過程也會堅守食品安全、國人健康，這個原則不會放棄的，委員放心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:14:45.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:15:12.661000+08:00","text":"最後我想跟院長再講，卓院長，我對於我們山線高架延伸（大慶─烏日）整體的鐵路高架化最關鍵的一段，也是未來山海線整合捷運藍線跟整個串聯綠線的核心工程，市府在去年7月已經完成了山線高架、海線雙軌化、捷運紫線三項重大建設的修正報告提交交通部。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:15:13.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:15:23.735000+08:00","text":"我記得交通部也多次有建議臺中市政府應該要再做相關的修正，也都陸續到位至交通部了。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:15:24.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:15:29.780000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，目前交通部能不能再更加努力地加速這個流程？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-24T11:15:29.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:15:30.780000+08:00","text":"請部長說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-03-24T11:15:30.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:15:40.080000+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前他們送過來的時間是115年的3月6號，我們現在鐵道局正在審議當中……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:15:40.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:15:41.761000+08:00","text":"是不是能夠幫我們加速一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:15:42.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:03.813000+08:00","text":"因為現在不管是我或者是許多的立委，甚至我們江啟臣副院長，都關心，在鐵路高架化會牽涉到未來臺中高鐵娛樂城相關的交通，部長，您住臺中，我相信您在尖峰時刻回到了高鐵，也會卡在建國北路上。是。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:05.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:07.899000+08:00","text":"這個部分，不管是我、江副院長，都關心。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:07.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:36.087000+08:00","text":"我也要再特別問你，74號線預留銜接匝道到高鐵站2樓，院長，我們今天最後要談的是台74線的匝道銜接高鐵站2樓，這個很重要，這是當年中央在設計台74線的時候主導預留的銜接口，目的很明確就是未來要把高鐵站交通做立體分流，我們也多次的考察，到現在都還沒有具體，可不可以給我一個回應？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:36.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:40.370000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，目前可行性研究市政府正在做，我們等待市政府的可行性研究出來。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:40.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:46.298571+08:00","text":"市府原本是說可以，是你請它去做可行性研究……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:46.598571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:49.455714+08:00","text":"它必然要做可行性研究……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:49.755714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:52.898571+08:00","text":"當時做預留就是覺得可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:53.198571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:56.055714+08:00","text":"謝謝羅委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-24T11:16:56.355714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-24T11:16:59.498571+08:00","text":"下一位請吳思瑤委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}