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下一位請鄭振權委員 謝謝謝謝主席 我想請一下公民信工部長經濟部公民部長"},{"start":20.51,"end":36.705,"text":"周委員早安部長好我先延續一下剛剛那個楊全委員在關心那個雲能離岸風電的事情因為那個最近跟台灣能源政策很多有關的事情就是包括我們核能的一個轉向整個政策的一個改變"},{"start":37.586,"end":62.764,"text":"核能可能會重啟然後因為整個中東的一個戰事的時候讓台灣的天然氣產生一個很大的一個緊張那我在想說這個部分我們就不得不去稍微做一下檢討就是說為什麼核能政策做轉彎然後第二個情況就是說之前的一個離岸封電的一個政策到底有沒有有一些"},{"start":64.666,"end":73.261,"text":"或者說有些可能的弊案的狀態我們要去追究一下部分我想請教一下雲林電廠它是有80座的風機對不對部長你知道嗎"},{"start":76.4,"end":94.502,"text":"因為他本來我先簡單講一下他本來是2020年他就要商轉並延延了五年之後在去年才商轉並延那我想請教一下現在我們跟雲能就是購電 等購電價之後一度電多少錢部長請回答"},{"start":99.735,"end":126.18,"text":"平均是5點多不快多 他會踩前高後低的方式平均5.8然後因為前面幾年是高的可能會高達7點多元更高的一個情況那麼在這樣的一個情況之下就是說我們其實給 基本上給這樣子的一個離岸封面廠商很好的一個條件可是問題是他很明顯違規剛剛楊前委員直接提到他從第一次事故就已經低於了"},{"start":127.401,"end":148.181,"text":"就是經濟部原本要求50%的股份的股權最基本的要求然後連續三次的一個移轉股份之後現在變成零啦 你知道嗎股權全部移轉走掉了然後在110年5月21號當時的次長 鄭永生次長他開會當中的時候有提到說只要他們違規的"},{"start":149.782,"end":160.693,"text":"事項很明確的時候那麼就會用他開始商轉並聯之後就會用迴避成本來購電請問一下我們現在有沒有用迴避成本來購電好比較細的部分來你要講一下嗎你要講一下這個細節對"},{"start":173.686,"end":179.809,"text":"有沒有用回避成本來購電?因為在110年5月21號的會議當中還有我們跟原本開發商的一個合約"},{"start":197.222,"end":223.84,"text":"基本上針對違約責任都有很明確提到如果他們有違約的一個情況的時候呢就會用迴避成本來購電可是為什麼他現在完全明顯的違約的情況我們沒有用迴避成本來購電請簡單回答我鮑委員因為剛剛主席已經有裁釋了這個個案我們用兩個禮拜的時間會把完整的這個說明提高給這個委員會那如果到的時候好不好"},{"start":225.421,"end":238.048,"text":"好 那在這個部分因為有些事情過去比方說他們已經整個市股已經變成零持股的狀態你要去追很難現在用多少的價格去買他的店"},{"start":240.99,"end":260.616,"text":"是我們能夠控制的為什麼我們不做請正在兩個禮拜之後說針對這部分很清楚的給我們一個回答那針對這411億的部分它是因為用迴避成本之後減少的一個支出購電的成本411億我們至少要在這部分幫老百姓"},{"start":262.137,"end":273.976,"text":"顧住這一筆錢好不好兩個禮拜之後很清楚的讓我們知道與能這樣的一個弊案的狀態的時候我們要怎麼樣的去做後續的一個處理OK那我在想說因為整個"},{"start":277.096,"end":305.207,"text":"核電的問題現在可能要開始啟動了那我就不再講說這打甲丸有如何的情況我們如何被攻擊我覺得怎麼樣讓台灣不缺電就是一個我們最大的一個標的那我想請教一下因為那個針對整個核能要啟動的時候人才的問題我們有沒有去做一個配套因為從1997年之後核工系就已經不在清大核工系就已經不再是核工系了那我們現在很清楚"},{"start":306.047,"end":320.189,"text":"就是何安慧她也很清楚地表示台灣現在的核電的人才是缺乏的我們要重啟核電的時候要怎麼樣用最快的速度把這樣子的核工的一個人才補齊布產工會簡單說一下"},{"start":321.854,"end":336.711,"text":"台電公司請鄭文森說明一下就是它所有的核子人都有保留下來這些人員我們都沒有離開那我也知道說核安衛下面有一個叫做國家的原子能科技研究院"},{"start":337.552,"end":358.61,"text":"他也是保留了這樣的這個有關於河工的人才那規模非常大對那這個都至少有保存在這邊持續的有在做新式核能的這個研發啦或者是了解啦等等一些情況OK那個曾董事長簡單回應一下就好齁我跟委員報告幾件事第一件事情"},{"start":359.349,"end":380.024,"text":"就是一直都在傳聞說台電把我們核發部核發處等都裁撤這件事是不事實不是事實核二廠跟核三廠的同仁當時停機之後因為尤其核二廠他的燃料棒都還在爐心那核三廠是2024、2025分別停機其實我們的人員都還滿邊"},{"start":381.425,"end":396.044,"text":"那核二廠跟核三廠的同仁其實平均之前的時候我諮詢過我去年諮詢過的時候我特別提到說核能事業部現在是1866人那百分之基本上都維持我知道可是因為之前一直有鼓勵他們要去"},{"start":398.046,"end":414.942,"text":"轉到不同的部門去做那個其他狀態那現在因為整個政策一個髮夾彎的時候我們希望這部分能夠很具體弄到因為我們知道這幾年就是台灣的河門相關的人才確實是出的至少河安會是這麼說的教育部也認為是這樣的一個情況我要跟您報告一下"},{"start":415.763,"end":435.651,"text":"就是其實核電廠的運轉它裡面一大堆機械設備它的電機機械的相關人才會比核工的還要多他到其他的地方去歷練回來這完全不會影響他的職能好沒問題喔那因為剛剛部長特別提到說我們台灣這邊也要做SMR小型核電的一個研發對不對那我看到的狀態啦"},{"start":436.892,"end":452.085,"text":"就是在那個115年就今年的狀態有編列一個四年八億的一個SMR的一個基礎研究計畫那從今年開始全球就開始有第一座的SMR的一個發電廠產生了然後那個"},{"start":453.746,"end":472.594,"text":"接下來會有陸續不同的國家都會產生那我希望台灣就碰到這一次的一個中東的一個戰事的時候我們很清楚的看到台灣的能源需要更多元化去來讓台灣不會缺電那我在想說這一次的"},{"start":474.249,"end":500.658,"text":"核電廠的一個重啟的時候我覺得某個部分表示了現在執政者似乎是一個知過能改的一個狀態之前的政策顯然是有問題的對於台灣的整個經濟成長是不適當的雖然當時賴總統他提到說我們現在轉彎的原因其實是因為整個產業變化然後一個地緣政治還有一個整個"},{"start":502.628,"end":527.82,"text":"看邊境整個相關的一個政策所以要做一個這樣改變可是我要講的情況是這三個客觀的事實從來都沒有改變過所以顯然是之前的一個能源政策出了問題那我們希望就是在這次轉彎當中的時候我們能夠盡速把台灣的那個多元的一個能源的一個政策能夠把它確定下來然後對於之前在整個"},{"start":529.241,"end":537.347,"text":"光電 風電所產生的弊案的時候經濟部這邊能夠加速把它給釐清那兩個禮拜之後我們等著允仁這邊你們怎麼做的說明以上"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:06.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:06.661000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:06.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:09.303000+08:00","text":"我想請一下龔明鑫龔部長。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:09.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:09.743000+08:00","text":"請經濟部龔明鑫部長。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:15.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:15.931000+08:00","text":"鄭委員早安。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:16.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:17.132000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:17.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:33.707000+08:00","text":"我先延續一下剛剛楊瓊瓔委員在關心允能離岸風電的事情，因為最近有很多跟臺灣能源政策有關的事情，就是包括我們核能的轉向，整個政策的改變，核能可能會重啟。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:33.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:50:51.099000+08:00","text":"然後因為整個中東的戰事，讓臺灣的天然氣產生很大的緊張，那我在想說這個部分我們就不得不去稍微做一下檢討，就是為什麼核能政策做轉彎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:50:51.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:02.531000+08:00","text":"然後第二個情況就是說，之前的離岸風電政策，到底有沒有一些不當的地方，或者說可能有一些弊案的狀態我們要去追究一下？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:04.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:07.820000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，允能電廠它是有80座的風機，對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:07.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:08.261000+08:00","text":"部長，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:08.261000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:12.802000+08:00","text":"個案的部分，我就比較不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:12.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:20.551000+08:00","text":"我先簡單講一下，它本來是2020年就要商轉併聯，延了5年之後，在去年才商轉併聯。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:21.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:28.902000+08:00","text":"那我想請教一下，現在我們跟允能的躉購電價一度電多少錢？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:28.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:29.482000+08:00","text":"部長請回答，一度電多少錢？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"吳代理署長志偉","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:34.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:36.356000+08:00","text":"平均是五點多。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:38.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:38.216000+08:00","text":"五塊多。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"吳代理署長志偉","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:38.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:39.756000+08:00","text":"五塊多，它採前高後低的方式。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:40.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:51:48.378000+08:00","text":"平均5.8，然後因為前面幾年是高的，可能會高達七點多元，是更高的一個情況。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:51:48.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:52:12.130000+08:00","text":"那麼在這樣的情況之下，基本上我們其實給這樣子的離岸風電廠商很好的條件，可是問題是它很明顯違規，剛剛楊瓊瓔委員直接提到，它從第一次釋股就已經低於經濟部原本要求50%股份的基本要求，然後連續3次移轉股份之後，現在變成零，你知道嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:52:12.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:52:30.868000+08:00","text":"股權全部移轉走了，然後在110年5月21號，當時的曾文生次長在開會當中，有提到說只要他們違規的事項很明確，在它開始商轉併聯之後，就會用迴避成本來購電。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:52:30.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:52:33.531000+08:00","text":"請問一下，我們現在有沒有用迴避成本來購電？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃專門委員韋智","start":"2026-03-25T09:52:33.531000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:52:48.686000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，基本上經濟部都是依照當初的會議……","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:52:48.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:52:50.787000+08:00","text":"有沒有用迴避成本來購電？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:52:50.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:53:28.593000+08:00","text":"因為在110年5月21號的會議當中，還有我們跟原本開發商的合約，基本上針對違約責任都有很明確提到，如果他們有違約的時候，就會用迴避成本來購電，可是為什麼它現在是完全明顯違約的情況，我們沒有用迴避成本來購電？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:53:28.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:53:28.933000+08:00","text":"請簡單回答我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-25T09:53:29.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:53:38.420000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為剛剛主席已經有裁示，這個個案我們用兩個禮拜的時間，會把完整的說明提報給委員會，如果……好。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:53:41.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:53:51.107000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，因為有些事情過去……比方說他們已經釋股，變成零持股的狀態，你要去追很難。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:53:51.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:53:58.531000+08:00","text":"現在用多少的價格去買它的電，是我們能夠控制的，為什麼我們不做？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:53:59.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:54:02.792000+08:00","text":"請在兩個禮拜之後，針對這部分很清楚的給我們一個回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:54:03.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:54:18.720000+08:00","text":"那針對這411億的部分，它是用迴避成本之後減少的一個購電支出成本，我們至少要在這部分幫老百姓顧住這一筆錢，好不好？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:54:19.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:54:25.991000+08:00","text":"兩個禮拜之後很清楚地讓我們知道，允能這樣的一個弊案狀態，我們要怎麼樣去做後續的處理。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:54:27.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:54:43.660000+08:00","text":"那我在想說，因為整個核電的問題，現在可能要開始啟動了，我就不再講說這髮夾彎有如何的情況、我們如何被攻擊，我覺得怎麼樣讓臺灣不缺電，就是我們最大的目標。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:54:44.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:54:53.384000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，針對整個核能要啟動的時候，人才的問題我們有沒有去做一個配套？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:54:53.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:55:07.878000+08:00","text":"因為從1997年之後，清大核工系就已經不再是核工系了，我們現在很清楚，核安會也很清楚表示，臺灣現在的核工人才是缺乏的。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:55:08.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:55:15.169000+08:00","text":"我們如果要重啟核電，要怎麼樣用最快的速度把核工人才補齊，部長可不可以簡單說一下？","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-25T09:55:17.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:55:19.197000+08:00","text":"請台電公司曾文生董事長說明一下。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-03-25T09:55:19.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:55:47.805000+08:00","text":"就是目前所有核工人員都有保留下來，都沒有離開，我也知道，核安會下面有一個國家原子能科技研究院，它也保留了核工人才，規模非常大，這個至少有保存在這邊，持續在做新式核能的研發或者是了解等等。OK。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:55:49.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:55:51.128000+08:00","text":"曾董事長簡單回應一下就好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-03-25T09:55:51.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:55:52.609000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告幾件事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-03-25T09:55:52.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:56:02.795000+08:00","text":"第一件事情就是一直都在傳聞台電把核發處等等都裁撤，這件事不是事實。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-03-25T09:56:02.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:56:19.089000+08:00","text":"另外，核二廠與核三廠當時停機之後，尤其核二廠的燃料棒都還在爐心，核三廠是2024、2025分別停機，其實我們的人員都還滿編，核二廠與核三廠的同仁平均年齡……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:56:19.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:56:25.797000+08:00","text":"有，之前我質詢過，我去年質詢的時候，有特別提到，核能事業部現在是1,866人……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-03-25T09:56:25.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:56:28.080000+08:00","text":"都還維持著。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:56:28.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:56:48.721000+08:00","text":"基本上都維持，我知道，可是之前一直有鼓勵他們要轉到不同部門去做其他的，現在因為整個政策髮夾彎，我們希望這個部分能夠有很具體的作法，因為我們知道這幾年臺灣的核能相關人才確實是缺的，至少核安會是這麼說的，教育部也認為是這樣的情況，好不好？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-03-25T09:56:48.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:56:58.386000+08:00","text":"委員，我跟您報告一下，其實核電廠在運轉，裡面有一大堆機械設備，它的電機機械相關人才會比核工的還要多……OK……","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-03-25T09:56:58.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:57:02.948000+08:00","text":"他到其他地方去歷練回來完全不會影響他的職能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:57:03.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:57:03.849000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:57:04.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:57:10.011000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛部長有特別提到，臺灣也在做SMR小型核電的研發，對不對？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:57:10.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:57:20.359000+08:00","text":"我看到的狀態就是115年（今年）有編列一個4年8億的SMR基礎研究計畫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:57:20.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:57:32.048000+08:00","text":"從今年開始全球就有第一座SMR發電廠產生，接下來不同的國家陸續都會產生。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:57:34.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:57:45.173000+08:00","text":"就這次中東的戰事，我們很清楚看到，臺灣的能源需要更多元化，讓臺灣不會缺電。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:57:46.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:58:21.370000+08:00","text":"這一次核電廠重啟的政策，我覺得某個部分表示現在執政者似乎是一個知過能改的狀態，之前的政策顯然是有問題的，對於臺灣的整個經濟成長是不適當的，雖然當時賴總統提到轉彎的原因是因為整個產業變化、地緣政治，還有整個碳邊境相關政策，所以要做這樣的改變。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:58:21.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:58:29.174000+08:00","text":"可是我要講的是這三個客觀事實從來都沒有改變過，所以顯然是之前的能源政策出了問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-03-25T09:58:29.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-25T09:58:52.327000+08:00","text":"我們希望這一次轉彎當中，我們能夠儘速把臺灣的多元能源政策確定下來，對於之前在光電、風電所產生的弊案，經濟部也都能夠加速釐清，兩個禮拜之後，我們等著你們對於允能的事做說明，以上。謝謝。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-25T09:58:52.827000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-25T09:58:55.969857+08:00","text":"接下來請陳亭妃質詢，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}