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謝謝好 謝謝主席 楊瓊英代言邀請主委請主委上台"},{"start":21.113,"end":36.944,"text":"指揮長那鑑於外送平台市場高度的一個集中在2024年底呢我們這個UberEats跟普遍達的申請合併案那因為市場的高度"},{"start":37.644,"end":63.631,"text":"这个高达九成的一个市占率所以当时呢他说影响整个市场的竞争所以最后公平会是否决是否决这也引起社会大众大家非常非常的关注但是近期东南亚数位这个服务商他宣布要以六亿美元来收购护片打我们台湾的外送这个业务网"},{"start":65.271,"end":70.456,"text":"但是我們也知道UBER是GREP最大的一個機構股東它幾乎佔了13%左右所以外界質疑是不是會透過股權結構 繞道來投資實際上"},{"start":82.128,"end":86.27,"text":"我們現在達成了原先被否決的市場整合效果那所以公平問你雖然也表示了個案是獨立審查不會因為舊案來影響新案但是最終的市場的一個結構仍舊會高度的集中那麼如果僅是以投資架構不同來重新來審查重新來審查"},{"start":110.379,"end":131.873,"text":"那麼可能會造成規避競爭審查的一個疑慮所以本席要在這邊請教請教Grab收購這個Hupenda的案中那Uber它身為主要的股東之一公平問你是不是會就實質控制力而非僅是以形式股權的一個結構來進行審查呢請做說明"},{"start":136.056,"end":153.092,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛委員講的沒錯我們在審查的時候我們會以實質的控制關係來判斷所以我們原則就是以實質控制力來做審查的精髓我跟委員再進一步說明就是說沒錯我們初步的了解是UberEats的控制大概百分之十三左右的股權"},{"start":154.553,"end":172.806,"text":"但是我們進一步去看到財報它的股權結構是有分不同的股權就是有些股權是沒有表決權或是表決權數比較多的所以實際上Uber對Grab的控制力可能沒有達到13.5這個數字所呈現出來不過我們在分析過程當中這個13.5這個形式上的要件會不會影響到結合以後"},{"start":174.867,"end":203.429,"text":"他透過某一種他一定會超半數以上嘛這個我們會後續會在分析的時候會把他納入分析的過程當中所以我們原則上還是以實質控制力為最重要的精髓審查方向那所以本席認為如果最終的市場他集中的效果跟先前遭到否決遭到否決的合併案是相近的那麼如果你公民會一旦"},{"start":203.889,"end":207.672,"text":"你的核准那等於你允許了這個業者透過繞道投資的方式來規避原有的反壟斷的一個審查"},{"start":215.407,"end":238.072,"text":"請再說說明所以剛剛委員講的沒錯就是說如果結合以後導致市場過度集中那這兩個案子基本上在股權在市場佔有率的影響前案跟後案是不太一樣前案結合以後九成大概市佔率會達到九成那這個案子是一家公司來接付PANDA的原先的地位所以事實上從初步來看的話它的市場結構是沒有太大的改變只是換一個人來做而已"},{"start":238.812,"end":267.294,"text":"那當然這個並不表示說一定都沒有問題我們還是在審查過程當中會進行這個市場整個整體分析來看看他對市場的影響程度我們唯一要避免落到投資的方式去取巧這個非常重要這第一點第二個我們要重視全我們市場的一個公平競爭你不能導致削弱了溢價的一個能力這是非常重要的也是我們消費者都在看的一個議題"},{"start":270.526,"end":290.8,"text":"因為我們的目的就是第一個不能壟斷而且市場不能沒有競爭對消費者來講能夠達到它的一個公平性那對業者也能夠達到一個市場的一個競爭這才能夠達到三贏這也是你公平會最重要的精神這個案子現在還沒進來但是我們分析的架構就如同剛剛委員講的"},{"start":291.861,"end":310.81,"text":"那個是一個大的架構我們一定會面面的考慮到這些問題好 也就是以實質控制力接下來本席要跟你討論深層次的人工智慧產業快速的發展那麼全球都在佈局大家都高度的關注大型科技公司在算力"},{"start":312.071,"end":330.207,"text":"以及在資料還有整個平台生態上的一個市場集中的這個問題那你在3月19號你也提出了公布出深層式AI競爭政策的一個宣布但是你提出了三個方向導向第一個議題"},{"start":331.348,"end":342.794,"text":"第二個證據第三個合理的原則為你執行的方向所以你認為到目前為止並沒有需要再修法的一個必要性但是AI產業它具有高度規模的這個經濟網路的一個效應所以如果從算力來看從雲端服務來看從"},{"start":354.059,"end":378.576,"text":"模型的一個平台來看它整個市場的力道力量正快速的在集中少數的跨國企業上那如果你僅以個案來作為審查那到時候你是不是有這個能力能夠因應的整個新型的新型態的一個壟斷跟競爭的一個限制行為那所以主委本席要請教"},{"start":379.637,"end":402.716,"text":"面對新城市AI你可能形成的平台壟斷與算力中心你未來會出現大型的科技公司透過資料算力生態系的一個優勢來排除這個競爭力那你是不是已經具備有監理的這個工具呢"},{"start":403.96,"end":420.247,"text":"跟委員報告一下這個因為就當如同委員所講的整個AI市場的變化太快了所以我們之所以做這個AI的生成是公眾意見其實就是讓公平會進一步去了解目前市場的現況那針對所可能產生的這些相關的競爭問題包含委員剛剛所關切的問題"},{"start":421.047,"end":441.305,"text":"我們就目前現階段看起來我們公平法裡面的既有架構是可以初步來處理但是我們要強化的部分是在於我們數位執法的能力就是當業者使用某些特定的數位技術在進行違反競爭行為我們是不是有能力去破解這樣的技術重點就在這裡所以你認為你不需要修法你的基本架構是夠的但是"},{"start":443.547,"end":460.936,"text":"日新月異的比如說數位您剛才所說的我們要怎麼去應對也就是本席說的你的監理工具你具備了嗎這個我們持續都在精進包含我們不管在軟硬體部分還有在人才訓練的部分我們都積極的這個部分必須要與時俱進好 一定要加油那接下來最後一個議題本席告訴你土方的問題"},{"start":467.901,"end":478.804,"text":"在這個2月25號的時候 國土署正式給你公文請公平會協助調查 釐清是否有涉及聯合壟斷以及調檔的這個問題 請教到目前為止你們查的情況怎麼樣其實在跟國土署進行協商之前我們已經有進行市場進行了解那到目前為止我們發現市場上的價格並沒有聯合一致的情況"},{"start":493.948,"end":499.393,"text":"但是普遍都漲了三倍啊他是漲價對這個漲價很奇怪但是你認為很奇怪我們消費者更奇怪啊公關工程都已經影響了各縣市都已經困難了啊那怎麼辦連國土署都請求你協助啊所以我們請國土署說能夠協助我們如果他手邊有比較具體的證據可以協助我們那我們來判斷是不是有聯合行為你剛才說漲價很奇怪"},{"start":519.932,"end":526.419,"text":"但是國土署是政府機構都要求你協助我們跟國土署談的我們的分工是我們會針對聯合漲價這部分來處理那你社會現象就是漲啊對啊 有沒有漲到大的一致嘛那你也已經影響到公共工程啊民間也影響啊 電視也影響啊"},{"start":537.91,"end":542.654,"text":"聯合協會的發動必須要市場價格有一致同業之間的價格趨於一致我們才可以 本席具體要求喔也就是說你們告訴社會大眾說要有業者來檢舉你們才會立案調查這一點本席認為已經社會普遍化的一個困難你們應該要主動調查我們有主動啦 對不對不能等到有人檢舉你才要因為已經是社會非常普遍的一個問題產生現象了嘛"},{"start":565.652,"end":581.547,"text":"還是跟委員報告一下我們有主動去調查但是要不要立案這個立案要有一定的基本的法律的條件就是我剛剛講的業者之間的價格是不是趨於一致那這個時候我們可以立案那調查了解市場現況那個價格的波動我們是一直都有持續在做市場競爭的這個機制是整個產業"},{"start":585.311,"end":589.915,"text":"聯動非常重要的一個關鍵本席說的連國土署都請你必須要協助趕快去查有沒有聯合壟斷趕快去查有沒有這個現象代表著社會目前對這個議題它是產生困難的疑惑的所以公民會的立場非常的重要所以這一點本席也希望在國土署2月25號函請"},{"start":609.409,"end":623.133,"text":"正是含情你公平會協助調查釐清是否涉及聯合漲價與壟斷的行為這一點你務必要做到道對不對我們持續都有在做了好 加油"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:27.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:29.779000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請主委。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:30.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:31.381000+08:00","text":"請主委上臺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:31.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:36.037500+08:00","text":"楊委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:36.037500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:20:40.694000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:20:40.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:09.428000+08:00","text":"鑑於外送平臺市場高度集中，在2024年底出現的Uber Eats跟foodpanda申請合併案因為市場高達九成的市占率，當時怕影響整個市場的競爭，所以最後公平會否決，這也引起社會大眾非常關注。","quality":0.674},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:10.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:21:40.648000+08:00","text":"但是近期東南亞的數位服務商Grab宣布要以6億美元來收購foodpanda的臺灣外送業務，但是我們也知道Uber是Grab最大的機構股東，它幾乎占了13%左右，所以外界質疑是不是會透過股權結構繞道來投資，實質上達成了原先被否決的市場整合效果。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:21:40.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:12.522000+08:00","text":"雖然公平會也表示了個案是獨立審查，不會因為舊案影響新案，但是最終的市場結構仍舊會高度集中，如果僅僅以投資架構不同來重新審查，那麼可能會造成規避競爭審查的疑慮。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:12.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:29.813000+08:00","text":"所以本席要在這邊請教，請教在Grab收購foodpanda案中，Uber身為主要的股東之一，公平會是不是會就實質控制力而非僅以形式股權的結構來進行審查呢？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:29.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:29.853000+08:00","text":"請做說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:34.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:38.480000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，剛剛委員講的沒錯，我們在審查的時候會以實質的控制關係來判斷。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:39.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:22:43.705000+08:00","text":"你們的原則就是以實質控制力來做審查的精髓？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:22:44.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:06.203000+08:00","text":"我跟委員再進一步說明，沒錯，依我們初步的了解，Uber Eats大概控制13% Grab的股權，但是我們進一步去看它的財報，它的股權結構有分不同的股權，有些股權是沒有表決權或是表決權數比較多的，所以實際上Uber對Grab的控制力可能沒有達到13.5這個數字所呈現出來的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:06.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:14.368000+08:00","text":"不過我們在分析過程當中，這個13.5形式上的要件會不會影響到結合以後透過某一種……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:14.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:15.929000+08:00","text":"它一定會超過半數以上嘛。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:17.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:21.313000+08:00","text":"是，這個我們後續在分析的時候會把它納入分析的過程當中。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:21.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:28.199000+08:00","text":"所以你們原則上還是以實質控制力為最重要的精髓、審查方向？是。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:29.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:53.827000+08:00","text":"因此本席認為，如果最終市場的集中效果跟先前遭到否決的合併案是相近的，一旦公平會核准了，等於你允許業者透過繞道投資的方式來規避原有的反壟斷審查，請再說明。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:54.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:23:57.828000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員講的沒錯，如果結合以後導致市場過度集中嘛。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:23:58.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:16.052000+08:00","text":"關於這兩個案子在股權、在市場占有率的影響，前案跟後案是不太一樣的，前案結合以後大概市占率會達到九成；那這個案子是一家公司來承接foodpanda原先的地位，初步來看的話，市場結構沒有太大的改變，只是換一個人來做而已。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:17.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:24.718000+08:00","text":"當然這個並不表示一定都沒有問題，我們還是會在審查過程當中進行市場整體分析來看看這對市場的影響程度。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:24.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:31.663000+08:00","text":"我們唯一要避免的就是以繞道投資的方式去取巧，這個非常重要，這是第一點。是。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:31.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:24:45.294000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們要重視市場的公平競爭，不能導致削弱議價能力，這是非常重要的，也是我們消費者都在看的一個議題。是。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:24:48.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:06.259000+08:00","text":"因為我們的目的就是，第一個不能壟斷，而且市場不能沒有競爭，對消費者來講能夠達到公平性，對業者也能夠達到市場競爭，這才能夠達到三贏，這也是你公平會最重要的精神。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:06.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:14.543000+08:00","text":"對，因為案子現在還沒進來，但是我們分析的架構就如同剛剛委員講的，那是一個大的架構，我們一定都會面面考慮到這些問題。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:14.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:16.264000+08:00","text":"好，也就是以實質控制力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:16.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:37.077000+08:00","text":"接下來，本席要跟你討論生成式人工智慧產業快速發展，全球都在布局，大家都高度關注大型科技公司在算力、資料還有整個平臺生態上的市場集中問題。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:37.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:25:58.733000+08:00","text":"你在3月19號也公布了生成式AI競爭政策，並提出了三個導向，第一個議題、第二個證據、第三個合理原則為你的執行方向，而你認為到目前為止並沒有需要再修法的必要性。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:25:58.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:26:35.496000+08:00","text":"但是AI產業具有高度規模經濟的網路效應，如果從算力來看、從雲端服務來看、從模型平臺來看，整個市場力道、力量正快速的集中在少數跨國企業上，假設你僅以個案作為審查，到時候你是不是有能力能夠因應新型態的壟斷競爭限制行為？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:26:35.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:00.695000+08:00","text":"主委，本席要請教，面對生成式AI可能形成的平臺壟斷與算力中心，未來會出現大型科技公司透過資料、算力、生態系的優勢來排除競爭，你是不是已經具備監理的工具呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:01.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:13.965000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如同委員所講的，整個AI市場的變化太快了，我們之所以做這個AI生成式公眾意見，其實就是讓公平會進一步去了解目前市場的現況。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:14.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:34.841000+08:00","text":"針對所有可能產生的相關競爭問題，包含委員剛剛所關切的問題，現階段看起來，公平法裡面的既有架構是可以初步處理，但是我們要強化的部分在於數位執法能力，就是當業者使用某些特定的數位技術在進行違反競爭行為，我們是不是有能力去破解這樣的技術？","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:34.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:35.982000+08:00","text":"重點就在這裡！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:35.982000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:36.982000+08:00","text":"所以這部分是我們要加強的。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:36.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:46.350000+08:00","text":"因此你認為不需要修法、你的基本架構是夠的，但是數位日新月益，誠如你剛才所說的，我們要怎麼去應對？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:46.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:50.472000+08:00","text":"也就是本席說的，你具備監理工具了嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:50.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:55.615000+08:00","text":"這部分我們持續都在精進，包含軟硬體還有人才訓練的部分，我們都積極的……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:56.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:56.935000+08:00","text":"這個部分必須要與時俱進！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:56.935000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:57.935000+08:00","text":"是，我們都有在做！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:56.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:27:57.796000+08:00","text":"好，一定要加油。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:27:57.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:14.143000+08:00","text":"接下來，最後一個議題本席告訴你土方的問題，2月25號國土署正式給你公文，請公平會協助調查、釐清是否有涉及聯合壟斷以及調漲的問題，請教到目前為止你們查的情況怎麼樣？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:14.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:16.804000+08:00","text":"其實在跟國土署進行協商之前，我們已經有對市場進行了解，到目前為止，我們發現市場上的價格並沒有聯合一致的情況，所以如果要……","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:31.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:32.409000+08:00","text":"但是普遍都漲了3倍呀！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:32.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:32.629000+08:00","text":"對，這個漲價很奇怪，但是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:32.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:33.990000+08:00","text":"你認為很奇怪，我們消費者更奇怪，都已經影響公共工程了，各縣市都已經困難了！","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:34.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:34.470000+08:00","text":"那怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:34.470000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:35.470000+08:00","text":"但是公平會是從……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:34.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:34.891000+08:00","text":"連國土署都請求你協助！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:35.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:28:37.053000+08:00","text":"有，所以我們請國土署協助我們，如果他手邊有比較具體的證據可以提供，讓我們來判斷是不是有聯合行為。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:28:37.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:01.055000+08:00","text":"對，你剛才說漲價很奇怪，而國土署是政府機構都要求你協助，對不對？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:01.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:02.717000+08:00","text":"我們有跟國土署談過，我們的分工是我們會針對聯合漲價這一部分來處理。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:02.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:02.917000+08:00","text":"社會現象就是漲啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:02.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:03.217000+08:00","text":"對，有沒有漲到價格一致嘛。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:03.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:04.399000+08:00","text":"這也已經影響到公共工程，民間也影響啊、建設也影響啊！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:15.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:16.711000+08:00","text":"是，但是聯合行為的發動必須市場價格一致，同業之間的價格趨於一致我們才可以……","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:16.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:19.393000+08:00","text":"本席具體要求，你們告訴社會大眾要有業者來檢舉才會立案調查，這一點本席認為已經是社會普遍化的困難，你們應該要主動調查，對不對？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:19.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:19.713000+08:00","text":"我們有主動啦，我們有主動調查。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:19.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:20.574000+08:00","text":"不能等到有人檢舉你才要，因為這已經是社會非常普遍的問題、現象了，對不對？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:43.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:46.515000+08:00","text":"還是跟委員報告一下，我們有主動去調查，但是要不要立案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:47.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:52.040000+08:00","text":"這個立案要有一定的基本法律條件，就是我剛剛講的，業者之間的價格是不是趨於一致？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:52.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:53.441000+08:00","text":"這個時候我們可以立案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:54.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:29:58.587000+08:00","text":"至於調查了解市場現況與價格波動，我們一直都有持續在做。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:29:59.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:39.013000+08:00","text":"市場競爭的機制是整個產業連動非常重要的一個關鍵，本席說的，連國土署都請你必須要協助，趕快去查有沒有聯合壟斷、趕快去查有沒有這個現象，代表社會目前對這個議題是產生困難的、是疑惑的，所以公平會的立場非常的重要，所以這一點，本席也希望國土署2月25號正式函請公平會協助調查釐清是否涉及聯合漲價與壟斷的行為，這一點你務必要做到，對不對？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:30:39.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:39.853000+08:00","text":"我們持續都有在做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-03-26T09:30:40.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:41.113000+08:00","text":"好，加油！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T09:30:41.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:42.755857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:30:43.055857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:45.055857+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:30:45.355857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:54.498714+08:00","text":"公平會對於剛剛不管是塑膠袋、塑料還有土方之亂，應該主動積極一點，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T09:30:54.798714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T09:30:58.513000+08:00","text":"接下來請鄭正鈐委員質詢，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}