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這個蠻好吃的我們在直播可不可以這樣做"},{"start":152.162,"end":173.404,"text":"可以嗎就是符合這個我們就符合這個嘛所以公民會會審查對不對會如果這符合這個好啦那現在如果AI用更隱密更針對性的方式投放我們要看譬如說一般民眾他唱AI去幹嘛資料查詢嘛像我去查楚門的世界或者聊天嘛跟聊天機的人講話甚至用它來製作一些影音那"},{"start":174.689,"end":202.687,"text":"閱聽者使用者他心裡是怎麼想他說AI至少是中立客觀的對不對他提供了給我的資訊至少是他掌握的資訊雖然有人說深層是AI是一本正經的胡說八道但是至少他應該只是自己胡說八道而已他不會幫人家刻意的去引導幫業主企業主去影響我現在AI的深層是內容如果有廣告組有企業主要求他去做廣告有沒有目前對他的強制介入或標示的規定"},{"start":203.027,"end":222.263,"text":"那我也問的問題涉及到兩個問題第一個就是說從公平會執法機關的角度來看我們如何去確認這個廣告是AI做的這個是一個不是 他的意思說你AI接受我的廣告之後你在AI生成的內容上幫閱聽大眾提供更多我要請你提供的資訊嘛"},{"start":222.964,"end":233.486,"text":"譬如問他說這個台灣哪裏的紅豆最好吃結果我們萬丹農會有跟AI說我跟你買個廣告你第一個就說屏東萬丹的紅豆最好吃"},{"start":234.67,"end":262.992,"text":"可不可以所以我剛剛談的就是說確認AI的意思就是說因為廣告到我們這邊來我們第一次看到的就是廣告那我們要確認說這個廣告是人播的AI提供的真實內容他不會說這是廣告因為你問他嘛所以我們要問的說這個以後會不會產生說只要有大的企業他對這些好往下看這三家最大的真實是AI的平台我說我給你下廣告請你們機器人在回答問題的時候多講我的好話可不可以"},{"start":263.888,"end":282.683,"text":"那如果說背後是有人在做這樣的操作的話那當然就是他對AI的訓練就是操作啊所以這個有可能會跟我們的見證廣告是有關係所以這個時候你們去查有沒有企業對這三大平台投放廣告請他們訓練他們的機器人AI機器人要多說他的好話那你們要去查他們對價關係你查得到嗎"},{"start":284.565,"end":312.179,"text":"我跟委員報告一下因為現在我們從最近開始我們在網路的這個廣告的監控上我們已經加入AI的監測你也用AI來監測嗎不是AI監測是委託我們在監測我們是外包給外面的機關來幫我們用魔法對付魔法對對對然後我們有特別要求他必須要針對AI這件事情來是所以我要告訴你說這三大平台如果開始接受業主投放廣告的時候我們問AI的問題可能背後你就要就查清楚他有沒有這個問題尤其這個平台如果是寡占呢"},{"start":312.719,"end":338.233,"text":"他的演算法是黑箱呢譬如說科技巨頭他掌握這三大平台我中小店家沒有地方可以投放廣告因為只有你們三個AI嘛所以我的廣告溢價權就一面倒嘛你說我要投放廣告多少錢就多少錢我要推銷萬彈的紅豆你說這個要兩百萬我拿不出兩百萬我就不能推銷萬彈的紅豆 是不是這樣子是 我們會在公平法的架構還有在處理原則裡面去做電信調查好 那再往下看那其實還有一個叫LINE"},{"start":339.229,"end":365.806,"text":"LINE其實也不過是一個 你會說聊天軟體嗎 可是你知道它台灣的滲透率是多少嗎99.7%耶 是所有最高的 你可以參加什麼它是台灣的超級平台什麼時候呢 它可以幫你做社交聯絡 還可以貼圖禮物還有金融服務 還有電子支付 LINE Pay還有商業應用 還有影音漫畫 還有甚至連視訊醫療現在衛福部建立的跨醫生視訊醫療如果你派到好愛工作了兩年"},{"start":366.306,"end":390.956,"text":"可是你這時候要回來看醫生或者說你慢性病處房間三個月到期了你可以怎麼辦你可以在海外利用當地的聯網然後透過LINE然後連接中華電信然後去跟台灣的醫院看病拿藥LINE很厲害耶 是不是這樣可是我們有辦法避開嗎現在你可以避開生活中避開LINE嗎你就算避得開你周邊的人避不開啊那它是不是構成了壓倒性的優勢是不是構成了獨佔"},{"start":393.579,"end":423.279,"text":"我想剛剛委員講的是正確就是社交至少在這個生態系當中當然LINE是以它的社交這個平台作為一個支點然後延伸到生態系各部分不過我們要注意的就是說在這樣的生態系當中LINE在不同的服務當中的市場力量是不一樣不是的就是因為它在每個個別的市場你都很難針對這個來說它沒有一個壟斷或壓倒性但是你在生活中LINE已經幾乎無所不包了我要用戶最多轉換的成本很高你現在叫我不要用LINE用別的我還受不了"},{"start":423.699,"end":444.6,"text":"還有他掌握了隱私資訊工程會要去想所以我們會看看是不是他利用這個社交聯絡的力量去做一個槓桿去把力量延伸到其他各位我們另外一個叫有線電視播放系統其實我們過去台灣為什麼有線電視的地方系統台他是把它當作準公用事業因為跟這個很像LINE的資訊流是不是要靠網路基礎設施政府提供嘛"},{"start":445.02,"end":469.456,"text":"那有建制嗎 沒有啊金流跟店家個人還有金融體育的金流這也是我們政府的資訊網路去提供的啊那政府在有限電視播放系統類似它的情況之下政府去進入管理喔 介入喔所以我們有限系統的執照是什麼 政府特許的嘛因為它具有準公用事業的性質我們往下看所以公平教育委員會目前你是對不公平競爭對廣告不實 你當個裁判吹哨對不對"},{"start":470.296,"end":491.986,"text":"但是未來如果有哪一個類似像LINE這樣的超級平台它有壓倒性的優勢它能掌握絕大多數人的隱私數據它還發展多元的業務公平的解放是什麼你還能純粹在那個裁判的角度來吹哨還是必須要為了確保這個公平競爭類似像高鐵的模式政府要不要入股來協助他的公司治理"},{"start":493.067,"end":513.979,"text":"我想委員提的這些問題都很前瞻啦但是這個可能在很多面向是跟公平會目前現在的執掌是不太符合的你目前還是裁判吹哨啦我們是事後的一個監管所以當你在監管這些之後事後監管你發現他這個趨勢的時候其實公平會不只要吹哨做判決還要吹哨做示警"},{"start":514.699,"end":542.698,"text":"要告訴政府 告訴社會如果CHAP GPT 深層式AI它可以接受大企業投放廣告影響到它深層的內容來給使用者的話那公平會要趕快的去了解有沒有能力用你的魔法來對付它的魔法 好不好是 是 這個我們持續再精進好 那最後問一下 人家都問我也不能不問目前通過上述 上游不供貨欸 諸位啊 這會不會有藉機囤貨烘台的可能啊"},{"start":543.22,"end":570.843,"text":"因為像刑法251條這是法務部的執掌公平教育法當然如果囤積掌握這個東西如果說有聯合壟斷的情形當然我們公平法也可以介入這個所謂價格的波動當然25條影響教育秩序在過去我們用這個條文處理物價的問題大部分都是在一個緊急狀態我們會就是事關民生重大的產品所以我今天提供這個機會就是說要分清楚"},{"start":571.303,"end":586.797,"text":"如果是延後出貨 那個囤貨過於烘台那是屬於刑法251 法務部去管那如果他透過聯合行為 立即的造成明顯的提高那才用到公交法的25條 有不一樣的分工那給你一個機會跟他說明 最後"},{"start":587.998,"end":604.469,"text":"署章 希望你嚴審這個併購案保護我們的外送員跟所有用戶的權益 好不好是 這個一定我們會詳細檢查好 那另外呢是不是比照你們的見證廣告的規範趕快去想要訂出深層式誒 誠又寫錯了深層式AI廣告的法規 好不好"},{"start":605.109,"end":620.499,"text":"好 這個我們會後再進行好 那一個月內是不是可以就LINE是不是具有壓倒性的優勢這個描述提出你們的書面報告讓我們知道在你們的公平味的眼中這個市場中LINE是不是個超級平台已經具有壓倒性的優勢可以嗎這個沒有問題好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:24.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:29.871000+08:00","text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府首長官員、會場的工作夥伴、記者媒體女士先生。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:30.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:31.892000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:32.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:33.353000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:33.353000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:40.533000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:40.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:40.733000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:41.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:51.080000+08:00","text":"最近公平會常常被問到Grab要收購臺灣的foodpanda，請問你知道foodpanda的最大股東是Uber嗎？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:51.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:51.340000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:33:51.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:33:57.724000+08:00","text":"雖然它的持股沒有過半，如果Grab跟Uber之間存在交叉持股，算不算Uber繞道併購foodpanda呢？","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:00.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:08.230000+08:00","text":"重點還是在於它掌握的那13.5%股權能夠影響Grab到什麼程度，所以強調的是實質的控制力。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:08.230000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:09.230000+08:00","text":"實質的控制力，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:08.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:09.851000+08:00","text":"這個我們會在審查當中注意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:10.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:22.217000+08:00","text":"除此之外，我們關心的下一個問題是，AI聊天機器人未來可能投放廣告，媒體報導很大：ChatGPT拓財源，推廣告服務。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:22.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:24.978000+08:00","text":"我就很好奇ChatGPT要怎麼推廣告服務呢？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:25.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:28.520000+08:00","text":"我記得28年前有一部電影叫《楚門的世界》，主委有沒有看過？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:28.520000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:29.840000+08:00","text":"有看過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:29.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:42.689000+08:00","text":"電影裡面只有一個人是不知情的，其他都是演員，包括演他太太的，觀眾收看這個實境節目的時候還會看到她的推銷廣告，是不是這樣？是。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:44.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:52.136000+08:00","text":"消費者、看《楚門的世界》的人都知道那是廣告，只有楚門自己不知道。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:53.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:34:58.171000+08:00","text":"現在ChatGPT已經從今年2月開始試著投放廣告，你們對這種事情有沒有管制？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:34:59.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:00.433000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，網紅業配有管制。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:02.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:03.616000+08:00","text":"主委有沒有看過我的直播？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:04.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:10.001000+08:00","text":"沒有是正常的，因為我的直播實在沒有很多人看，連小咖的網紅都稱不上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:10.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:14.545000+08:00","text":"但是公平會對薦證廣告有沒有規範、要求？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:15.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:16.006000+08:00","text":"薦證型的，有沒有？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:16.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:16.287000+08:00","text":"你們有規範嘛！有。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:17.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:24.471000+08:00","text":"譬如我每次直播都做吃播，我在立法院附近買了小吃，邊吃邊說好不好吃、這個怎麼樣、立院三寶，我是不是專業人士？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:24.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:27.293000+08:00","text":"我至少對吃還算有研究，對不對？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:27.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:29.414000+08:00","text":"我跟他有利益關係的話，要不要揭露？要啊！","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:29.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:40.101000+08:00","text":"如果那個東西是業主送我的，請我幫他講好話，譬如鄉親送我這個很好吃的什麼米、蠻好吃的，我在直播可不可以這樣做？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:41.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:41.322000+08:00","text":"可以嘛？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:41.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:42.864000+08:00","text":"就是符合這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:43.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:43.585000+08:00","text":"符合這個嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:43.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:45.647000+08:00","text":"所以公平會會審查，對不對？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:45.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:35:47.008000+08:00","text":"會，要符合這些要件。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:35:48.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:01.684000+08:00","text":"現在如果AI用更隱密、更針對性的方式投放廣告，比如一般民眾上AI查詢資料，像我去查《楚門的世界》或者跟聊天機器人講話，甚至用它來製作一些影音。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:03.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:04.830000+08:00","text":"閱聽者、使用者的心裡怎麼想？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:05.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:11.694000+08:00","text":"他說AI至少是中立客觀的，它提供的資訊至少是它所掌握的資訊。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:11.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:22.901000+08:00","text":"雖然有人說生成式AI是一本正經的胡說八道，但至少應該只是自己胡說八道而已，不會刻意幫業主引導、影響我。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:23.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:31.667000+08:00","text":"針對現在生成式AI的內容，如果有廣告主、企業主要求它做廣告，目前有沒有強制揭露或標示的規定？","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民：委員問的涉及兩個問題","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:33.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:39.313000+08:00","text":"第一、從執法機關公平會的角度來看，我們如何確認這個廣告是AI做的？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民：委員問的涉及兩個問題","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:40.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:40.915000+08:00","text":"這是一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:40.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:51.243000+08:00","text":"不是，意思是AI接受廣告之後，在AI生成的內容上幫業主提供更多業主要給閱聽大眾的資訊。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:51.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:36:54.810000+08:00","text":"譬如問它，臺灣哪裡的紅豆最好吃？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:36:55.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:03.910000+08:00","text":"結果萬丹農會有跟AI買廣告，AI第一個就說屏東萬丹的紅豆最好吃，可不可以？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:04.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:13.097000+08:00","text":"我剛剛談確認AI的意思就是，因為廣告到我們這邊，我們第一次看到的就是廣告，我們要確認這個廣告是人播的，還是……","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:13.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:31.651000+08:00","text":"AI提供的生成式內容，它不會說「這是廣告」，因為是你問它，所以我要問的是，以後會不會產生只要有大企業對三大家最大的生成式AI平臺下廣告，請AI機器人在回答問題的時候多講他的好話？","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:31.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:31.972000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:33.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:36.531000+08:00","text":"如果背後是有人在做這樣的操作，當然就是薦證……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:36.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:38.092000+08:00","text":"他對AI的訓練就是操作！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:39.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:42.356000+08:00","text":"所以這個有可能會跟薦證廣告有關係。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:42.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:37:51.683000+08:00","text":"是，所以這時候你們就要去查有沒有企業對這三大平臺投放廣告、請他們訓練他們的AI機器人要多說他的好話，而你們要去查有沒有對價關係，查得到嗎？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:37:55.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:00.288000+08:00","text":"我們從最近開始在網路廣告的監控已經加入AI監測。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:00.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:01.729000+08:00","text":"你們也用AI來監測嘛？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:01.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:05.511000+08:00","text":"不是用AI監測，我們是外包給外面的機構幫我們做專業的……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:05.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:07.212000+08:00","text":"用魔法對付魔法？對。很好！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:07.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:10.393000+08:00","text":"我們有特別要求他們必須針對AI這件事情來做。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:10.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:21.159000+08:00","text":"我要告訴你，這三大平臺如果開始接受業主投放廣告，我們問AI問題，你們可能就要查清楚背後有沒有這個問題，尤其這個平臺如果是寡占呢？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:21.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:22.820000+08:00","text":"它的演算法是黑箱呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:23.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:35.126000+08:00","text":"譬如科技巨頭掌握這三大平臺，中小店家沒有地方可以投放廣告，因為只有這三家AI，所以廣告議價權就一面倒，他們說投放要多少錢就多少錢。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:35.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:41.530000+08:00","text":"我要推銷萬丹的紅豆，你說要200萬，我拿不出200萬，就不能推銷萬丹的紅豆，是不是這樣？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:41.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:44.891000+08:00","text":"是，我們會在公平法的架構及處理原則裡面去做定性調查。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:46.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:50.891000+08:00","text":"其實還有一個叫LINE，LINE不過是一個聊天軟體嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:50.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:38:56.154000+08:00","text":"可是你知道在臺灣的滲透率多少嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:38:56.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:01.838000+08:00","text":"99.7%，是所有軟體最高的，可以稱之為臺灣的超級平臺，怎麼說呢？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:02.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:20.188000+08:00","text":"它可以幫你做社交聯絡、貼圖禮物、金融服務、電子支付LINE Pay、商業應用、影音漫畫，甚至視訊醫療，現在衛福部建置的看醫生視訊醫療，如果你被派到海外工作兩年，可是要看醫生或者慢性病處方箋三個月到期了，你可以怎麼辦？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:20.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:28.991000+08:00","text":"你可以在海外利用當地連網，透過LINE連結中華電信，跟臺灣的醫院看病拿藥。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:28.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:32.053000+08:00","text":"LINE很厲害，是不是這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:32.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:33.513000+08:00","text":"可是我們有辦法避開嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:33.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:35.334000+08:00","text":"你現在在生活中可以避開LINE嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:35.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:39.455000+08:00","text":"就算你避得開，你周邊的人避不開，它是不是構成了壓倒性的優勢？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:39.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:39.956000+08:00","text":"是不是構成了獨占？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:43.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:51.585000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員講的是正確的，至少在這個生態系當中，LINE以社交平臺作為支點，延伸到生態系各個部分。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:52.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:39:58.069000+08:00","text":"不過我們要注意的是，在這樣的生態系當中，LINE在不同服務的市場力量是不一樣的。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:39:58.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:04.414000+08:00","text":"是的，就是因為在每個個別的市場，你都很難針對這個有沒有壟斷或壓倒性……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:04.414000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:05.414000+08:00","text":"是，這個就是我們未來會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:05.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:15.102000+08:00","text":"但是在生活中，LINE已經幾乎無所不包了，活躍用戶最多，轉換的成本很高，現在叫我不要用LINE、用別的，我還受不了，還有它掌握了隱私資訊，公平會要去想有沒有解方。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:15.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:21.027000+08:00","text":"所以我們會看看是不是它利用社交聯絡的力量去做一個槓桿，把力量延伸到其他……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:21.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:29.195000+08:00","text":"主委，另外一個叫有線電視播放系統，為什麼過去臺灣的有線電視地方系統臺被當作準公用事業？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:29.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:32.879000+08:00","text":"跟這個很像，LINE的資訊流是不是要靠網路基礎設施？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:33.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:34.781000+08:00","text":"這是政府提供的，LINE有建置嗎？","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:34.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:35.061000+08:00","text":"沒有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:35.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:52.652000+08:00","text":"金流、店家／個人、還有金融體系的金流，也是我們政府的資訊網路提供的，有線電視播放系統類似這個情況之下，政府進入管理、介入，所以我們有線系統的執照是政府特許的，因為它具有準公用事業的性質。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:54.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:40:58.456000+08:00","text":"公平交易委員會目前是對不公平競爭、廣告不實當個裁判、吹哨，對不對？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:40:59.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:41:10.001000+08:00","text":"但是未來如果有哪一個類似像LINE這樣的超級平臺，具有壓倒性的優勢，能掌握絕大多數人的隱私數據，還發展多元的業務，公平會的解方是什麼？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:41:10.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:41:20.966000+08:00","text":"你們是純粹站在一個裁判的角度來吹哨，還是必須為了確保公平競爭，類似像高鐵的模式，政府要不要入股來協助它的公司治理？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:41:22.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:41:29.031000+08:00","text":"我想委員提的這些問題都很前瞻，但是可能在很多面向跟公平會現在的職掌是不太符合的。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:41:29.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:41:30.192000+08:00","text":"你們目前還是裁判吹哨。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:41:30.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:41:31.853000+08:00","text":"我們是事後的監管主要機構。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:41:32.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:01.511000+08:00","text":"我了解，所以當你們在事後監管這些之後，發現有這個趨勢的時候，其實公平會不只要吹哨做判決，還要吹哨做示警，要告訴政府、告訴社會，如果ChatGPT或生成式AI可以接受大企業投放廣告，影響其生成的內容給使用者的話，公平會要趕快去了解有沒有能力用你的魔法來對付它的魔法，好不好？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:01.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:03.933000+08:00","text":"是，我們會持續再精進。好。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:04.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:06.674000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，人家都問了，我也不能不問。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:06.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:11.578000+08:00","text":"目前通路上說塑膠袋上游不供貨，主委，這會不會有藉機囤貨、哄抬的可能？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:12.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:15.182000+08:00","text":"像刑法第二百五十一條是法務部的職掌。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:15.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:16.564000+08:00","text":"是，我是講公平交易法。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:17.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:24.110000+08:00","text":"對，當然，如果囤積、漲價有聯合壟斷的情形，我們公平法也可以介入。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:26.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:37.080000+08:00","text":"所謂價格的波動，過去我們用公平法第二十五條有關影響交易秩序的條文處理物價的問題，大部分都是在緊急狀態，就是事關民生重大的產品。","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:37.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:54.196000+08:00","text":"所以我今天提供這個機會就是要分清楚，如果是延後出貨、囤貨、過於哄抬，那是屬於刑法第二百五十一條，由法務部去管；如果透過聯合行為，立即地造成明顯的提高，才用到公平法第二十五條，有不一樣的分工。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:54.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:42:55.657000+08:00","text":"給你一個機會跟大家說明。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:42:55.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:03.162000+08:00","text":"最後，本席主張，希望你們嚴審Grab的併購案，保護我們外送員跟所有用戶的權益，好不好？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:03.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:04.763000+08:00","text":"是，我們一定會詳細審查。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:05.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:13.449000+08:00","text":"另外，是不是比照你們薦證廣告的規範，趕快去想如何訂出生成式AI廣告的法規，好不好？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:14.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:15.250000+08:00","text":"好，我們會後再進行研議。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:15.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:28.859000+08:00","text":"好，請在一個月內就LINE是不是具有壓倒性優勢這個描述提出你們的書面報告，讓我們知道在你們公平會的眼中，這個市場中的LINE是不是個超級平臺，已經具有壓倒性的優勢，可以嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:28.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:29.019000+08:00","text":"這個沒有問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:29.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:29.359000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:29.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:29.499000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:29.999000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:37.713286+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾佳濱委員前瞻性的質詢，我覺得公平會要跟上科技的速度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-26T10:43:38.013286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-26T10:43:41.156143+08:00","text":"接下來請謝衣鳯委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}