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麻煩請行政院長 謝謝好 請卓院長備詢"},{"start":22.705,"end":48.834,"text":"我現在關心一下這個物價上漲的問題因為現在傳出來連米大家平常每天吃的米都要漲了所以這個漲價的危機似乎都已經來了有一個國內算是蠻大的一家米商他一天大概出貨大概數萬包米那他每個每天的大概包米的材料到一千萬元但是他最近他現在傳出來就是說他的上游提供"},{"start":49.654,"end":74.054,"text":"包裝給他的廠商跟他說一開始是說要漲兩成那現在說要漲到一倍了啦那漲一倍之後大家其實就會擔心說那米價是不是會跟著一起漲然後另外現在市場上也傳出很多塑膠類的東西囤貨的狀況比如說有那個回收就是類似那種就是塑膠用的那些"},{"start":76.133,"end":87.96,"text":"現在也說有囤貨的狀況那國務院會擔心說如果再吃了這一塊這種每天必須要消費的東西上場的話那怎麼辦啊我不知道說包括院長或者是行政院這邊有沒有一些因應措施"},{"start":89.495,"end":111.944,"text":"謝謝文,我們同樣注意到今天有這樣一個媒體的報導主要是因為包裁因為這個原物料的缺乏以及現在市場上價格比較調整上來的原因,倒不是米做農作物本身我知道,我剛剛有講,不要重複我的問題我現在問說行政院現在的因應措施是什麼?因為如果米都要漲的話,我覺得對國人來說影響很大對,對包裁的問題"},{"start":118.228,"end":141.927,"text":"昨天已經說明清楚了中油會對於相關的塑膠材料的原物料會做進行的中油會增加生產也會請台塑來恢復原來的供應量希望這樣能夠從上游的原料來增加問題是現在可能已經緩不濟急了我跟委員報告一下那你運估一下米價會不會因為這樣子漲大概會漲多少"},{"start":143.243,"end":172.199,"text":"現在大概先漲了百分之二十左右吧米會 米會漲百分之二十我說米啦 大家一般不會買包材嘛我跟委員報告一下齁就是您剛才所關鍵的米的包裝袋的部分最主要是現在因為米商擔心它不夠所以有加上那個不好意思不好意思那個院長跟部長因為我們職訓有限不要一直重複我的問題好不好剛剛我的問題我都講過我現在是問說因為國人買的到米國人不會去買米的包裝"},{"start":173.059,"end":182.826,"text":"所以大家關心的是米價的上漲那關於米價的上漲行政院因應措施還有預期大概米價會漲多少你有沒有信心讓米價不會漲到很多"},{"start":204.34,"end":212.406,"text":"所以農業部有信心不會造成米價上漲就對了我們會謝謝行政院長也給這樣的承諾不然的話我覺得國人會非常擔心我們會密切關注所有的發展而且會適時檢討必要的平穩物價穩定小組是每週都在對所有的大宗及民生物價進行觀測接下來"},{"start":229.86,"end":248.69,"text":"院長有這個承諾我覺得很高興就是有注意到這個事再來我想來問一下有關教育就是我一直非常關心的教育的問題那我想院長應該也都有看到就是最近有關於校園暴力事件有幾件社會非常關注其中有一個是在"},{"start":249.43,"end":274.061,"text":"某一個國中在校外有國二的女學生她被幾個人圍住然後被用履棒敲頭敲了兩下 其中有一下那個履棒還發出聲響換句話說這個如果力道沒有控制好的話這可能是會有生命危險的另外也有一個國中一樣類似的狀況也是有女學生在廁所被大概堵了30分鐘也是一樣下跪被扯頭髮被打"},{"start":275.131,"end":283.808,"text":"那這樣的校園事件層出不窮我先給院長看一個數據我們看一下PD幫我放一下"},{"start":285.972,"end":303.305,"text":"這個是最近失蹤熱潮越來越熱雙北15間學校招生撞期,入局率低於兩成那我們再來看一下各個學校的狀況你看媒體整理的資料像南山中學4000人報考入局1000人"},{"start":305.627,"end":330.915,"text":"但他的入取率,因為他的學校的學生算多啦所以他入取率有到2成5但你看有的學校,比如說像晉興入取27個人,但是有450個人報考,他入取率只有6%那其他包括像嚴平,嚴平入取495人報考3300人嚴平的報考人數多到他必須要去跟其他學校去借考場"},{"start":331.815,"end":349.72,"text":"那這樣的一個失蹤熱潮,我先問一下,請問一下那個部長或是院長,你有注意到這個現象嗎?校園的安全我們是列在...我有注意到這個失效,大家擠破頭要進失效狀況,你有注意到這個現象嗎?擠破頭進失效我剛剛不是已經給你看過嗎?"},{"start":351.55,"end":378.344,"text":"你有沒有注意到這個現象?我跟你講你還知道嘛,我覺得這個是很嚴重的狀況啦當然我知道院長可能不是那麼關心教育啦但是教育是國家的根本啦那如果私校面臨到這個狀況,當然你要去了解一下是什麼原因啊那為什麼會出現這個情形?那部長您知道?您知道這個狀況嗎?我知道我知道那特別原因是什麼?台北市特別嚴重台北市特別嚴重,原因是什麼?"},{"start":379.266,"end":392.968,"text":"我想當然現在少子化每一個小孩都是家庭的寶那台北相對的家庭的一些經濟情況也比較好當然委員所關心的學校怎麼樣提供一個更"},{"start":393.564,"end":411.694,"text":"友善的一個校園一個學習的環境教學的環境當然也是教長所在意的剛剛部長有提到少子化我們接下來往下看少子化公立國小的學生人數確實他在113年是下跌"},{"start":412.614,"end":430.323,"text":"他從106到112公立學校的學生人數有往上但是到114年下跌但是私立國小學生人數是不斷的成長那實際上我們可以看到你現在看私中的小學生就讀的數據"},{"start":431.776,"end":457.637,"text":"就讀私立國小的學生從10年前2.8%現在已經到3.8%每26個國小生就有一位是讀私立國小但是就讀公立國小的學生從10年前11.7%現在是已經達到14.4%所以私中的或私小的學生他的就讀率提高這個是一個趨勢那真正原因是什麼呢好 下一頁"},{"start":459.339,"end":478.278,"text":"其實也有雜誌,沒關係我把答案,因為感覺上你們好像也沒有很關心,我直接把答案告訴你我不是不關心,但我們尊重當我們的義務教育、我們教育這個供給量也太多的需求量的時候,我們當然我今天來是想要跟院長對話,我想要跟院長對話,因為院長畢竟是最高行政首長"},{"start":480.821,"end":506.516,"text":"院長是最高行政首長有的時候這些問題也不是教育部可以單一部會解決啦所以今天才要總質詢來問啦所以請你尊重我我想要多一點時間去跟院長對話不知道部長這樣可以嗎那這個親子天下他有去訪問非常多的校長他得到一個結論就是說為什麼大家都擠破頭要去失蹤呢有一個趨勢他說安全感是家長最在乎的關鍵字"},{"start":507.637,"end":528.158,"text":"那其中你看第一句話他講說校園安全是家長選校的首要考量換言之其實現在很多家長他要把小朋友送到什麼學校公校或私校其實他考慮的是我的小朋友送到學校裡面去安不安全會不會面臨到校園暴力這些狀況那我為什麼剛剛我講說"},{"start":530.801,"end":550.234,"text":"這個不是教育部一個單步可以解決的其實我是幫教育部講話啦我幫學校老師講話很多人只要發生這樣的事件第一個直覺就是校長沒有管好 老師沒有管好校長出來道歉 老師出來道歉或是說要求教育部全面徹查全國的校安通報有沒有狀況"},{"start":551.095,"end":573.022,"text":"但有的時候並不是完全是學校可以處理的嘛比如說有一些他有校園暴力行為的這些學生他背後都有干戈啊背後都有干戈啊那我就問啊請問一個校長一個老師他怎麼獨自去面對有背後有干戈有干戈的這些學生學校有辦法嗎部長你認為學校老師或學校校長有辦法嗎"},{"start":574.127,"end":593.248,"text":"我想學校在這一個部分他過去也累積了一些經驗跟地方的這一個正當位還有社工我是說你認為學校老師沒有辦法獨立嘛獨立完成嘛他是整個社會體系嘛包括他要結合社政結合警政甚至於家庭"},{"start":593.829,"end":610.023,"text":"都要一起努力嘛,才有可能讓這種事情不是再發生嘛所以第一個就是說不要完全去怪教育、學校這是我幫學校老師講的話第二個當然也是要請部長希望能夠去統合就是各個資源讓這樣的問題不要再繼續發生那我自己是有"},{"start":614.927,"end":629.763,"text":"提一個法案啦我上次在質詢的時候我提兩個建議一個建議是說我希望說我們應該要成立一個專屬學校那個專屬學校提供資源或輔導資源讓這些可能在學校裡面他平常就帶刀械上課"},{"start":630.484,"end":653.112,"text":"或者是他有校園暴力行為背後有乾哥乾姊的這種人他在學校裡面一個學校只有一個全校的師生都會受到影響那怎麼辦好那上一次院長部長的回答是說沒關係我們會增加輔導資源我們輔導很棒什麼但是沒有用就是沒有用現在就是沒有用所以怎麼辦呢其實我建議就是說我們可以委託"},{"start":654.366,"end":679.228,"text":"很不錯的教育團體他成立一個專屬學校然後把這些在學校可能會威脅其他師生生命安全的這些學生移到那個專屬學校去那大家會說強制他轉學是不是會再造成其他學校的問題我再次強調不是轉到一般其他的學校因為轉到其他學校就是其他學校的問題我們是轉到一個專屬學校可以公辦民營或公辦公營"},{"start":680.549,"end":696.626,"text":"那這個部分教育部以前也有經驗啊就是例如說以前你們有成立實驗學校那這些實驗學校還有各自的特色但我們這個學校就是加強輔導資源社工或各方面資源針對這些我剛剛講的那些可能會成為校園報應因子的這些學生"},{"start":697.048,"end":713.942,"text":"加強資源讓他制裁市所針對他們提供教育我的建議是這樣我不知道院長你認不認同這樣的方向細節我覺得我們可以討論那現在我們因為上次講教育部沒有動作所以我已經立專法那專法我們上次在委員會也開過公聽會"},{"start":715.143,"end":741.833,"text":"我不知道院長你支持這樣的方向很多對於這種青少年或是其他行為療癒的過程當中我們都曾經說過回歸社區也許是一個比較崇高的理想但是對一個年輕人他人格的養成如果能夠他回歸社區回歸自然對他未來是有成長的空間比較好的所以我認為把它集中式的管理"},{"start":743.134,"end":765.746,"text":"不是見得是教育上最好的你成立一個學校部長 院長我覺得你們在談論事情永遠都是站在這些加害人的角度比如說他拿那個女棒去敲女學生的頭那個力道如果說沒有控制好的話女學生生命可能會喪失但是我在跟你討論說怎麼去解決類似這樣的一個校園問題但院長的回覆永遠都是說那這些"},{"start":772.87,"end":790.395,"text":"打人的學生他不要回到社區嗎他們的人權不重要嗎他們的授教權不重要嗎但是那我就問啊那被打的那個學生他的授教權不重要打人的學生他應該受到該有的效果對但是他繼續但是他繼續在校園裡面成為大家恐懼的一個"},{"start":791.095,"end":811.425,"text":"一個對象所以你沒有辦法解決這個問題嘛你現在我覺得我也很支持我認同你的部分觀點啦那些打人的學生拿鋁棒敲人的甚至於發生國三案國三割喉案的那個那個兇手那不能把他留在校園裡面啊他那一個人就是進到校園才殺人的嘛"},{"start":812.301,"end":836.487,"text":"他就是進到校園來殺人的嘛我現在就是針對這一些他還沒有殺人因為他殺人才能被抓去關換句話說就是他們在學校裡面變成一個不定時炸彈可是什麼時候大家會他什麼時候會離開呢是等到他殺人他才能離開啊所以你現在就是等他你現在所有的家長都在想說他什麼時候離開他犯了法 嚴重的法律重他才能離開"},{"start":838.167,"end":864.522,"text":"輔導的過程就是在針對這些輔導就是沒有用啦 院長輔導要是有用的話就不會發生這樣的事情那誰來決定說魔甲也要把它放到學校裡面細節部分我的專把裡面都有寫有專家 有教育部或者是像院長你關心教育的話你也可以參加來決定什麼樣那種當然不是所有的人你只要犯一點錯或什麼都把你離開 不是而是說真的每天帶刀上課"},{"start":865.683,"end":890.452,"text":"如果一個班上有一個同學是每天戴蝴蝶刀上課甚至在課堂上耍弄蝴蝶刀你覺得在那個學校的師生不會緊張嗎老師學校的一些行政人員就應該有所警惕事先做好這些規範跟防範並且要有全面的制度你現在又在把責任推給行政人員如果行政人員真的因為他背後都有干戈乾解我剛剛已經講了啦有的時候學校行政人員也沒有辦法處理啦"},{"start":891.428,"end":911.414,"text":"我先講說你認不認同嘛因為你是要保護絕大多數想要安心上學的學生然後讓他們的家長放心讓老師可以好好教書還是針對那一個兩個那帶刀械上課在學校會發生嚴重暴力但他一直在學校裡面的人你是比較在乎誰嘛"},{"start":912.054,"end":928.92,"text":"有這種嚴重暴力的繼續留在學校當然不行啦謝謝院長所以他現在就是留在學校所以我才會提出一個專法那院長你剛剛的顧慮我覺得我們都可以細部的部分我們都可以來討論可是我希望在大方向上面可以得到你的支持"},{"start":929.6,"end":958.954,"text":"就是說針對這些你剛也有提到那些重大暴力但一直留在學校的我們可以另外成立專屬學校強制他轉學到那邊但那個學校也是學校喔那不是不是大家你想的那種好像是什麼集中管理集中營不是他也是一個學校你也可以108課綱他也可以各種得志體群美通通都可以那裡面誰來管這些你說的這些比較有這些傾向的人所以他這個學校學校當然就是你要找那種像我就有建議嘛你找那種"},{"start":959.614,"end":974.605,"text":"就是有一些教育團體啊他們有很多理念也想實踐的啊以人為本的啊正向教育啊然後這個愛的教育啊然後讓他們覺得在這個地方感覺到很正向他們那暴力志氣就沒有了然後他們在那邊好好學習"},{"start":975.505,"end":1003.15,"text":"那越南的學校得到喘息這個兩全其美關於校園的安全我歡迎你提出任何的想法那這個經過大家審慎的討論跟專家學者團體教育人員都好好的了解也跟教堂人員我現在只是問你說這個大方向你支持如果你大方向支持的話大方向是維持校園的安全沒有人反對就是不支持說針對那些有暴力的可能會殺人的或可能會這個"},{"start":1005.23,"end":1026.619,"text":"他的存在會讓其他師生感到恐懼的這些學生有暴力會殺人的不應該留在校園對你說的喔有暴力會殺人的有這種行為不該留在校園他如果有這種傾向你只說殺人以後不該留在校園還是說他可能會殺人比如說他每天帶刀他也沒殺人啊但是他每天帶刀你也沒辦法拿怎麼樣啊"},{"start":1027.777,"end":1049.465,"text":"那這個行為如果去判斷,要經過包括司法的、犯罪學的還有心理學的,大家去討論一下怎麼來界定這個行為謝謝院長,其實院長你講的跟我的立法方向是大致上的一致因為我也是認為不應該誰怎麼樣隨便就把它轉到但是如果像您剛剛出現的狀況"},{"start":1050.265,"end":1071.675,"text":"如果連比如說司法的學者或者是犯罪學專家或者是很多都認為說他這種學生他還沒殺人但是他留在學校已經造成他其他人的恐懼而且非常有可能他隨時有可能刀子就往別人身上捅了這種人我們把他強制轉學到我剛剛講的專屬學校好謝謝院長因為我們已經公聽會了對我們已經公聽會了所以所以那個接下來的細節"},{"start":1079.238,"end":1097.984,"text":"因為院長我們在一個會期才能見你一次,希望你跟部長講一下,我們之後好好討論,院長大方向認同部長很關心教育,你不要開始說部長不關心教育沒有,我沒有說他,是你比較不關心,因為我剛剛問你說私立學校的狀況,你說你不知道"},{"start":1098.604,"end":1123.769,"text":"那但是現在所有家長都有注意到私立學校急破頭的狀況因為院長你可能國政大事太多教育比較放後面啦但是部長是很關心的啦教育是很重要的國家的大事部長不要插個話院長對教育事實上是非常關心的包含教師的一個福利等等的都是在院長的史事效我們積極的去尋求解決的一些方案好謝謝好然後"},{"start":1125.81,"end":1146.168,"text":"再來除了校安的部分除了剛剛講的專訪因為院長認為大方向可行細節我們再來討論之外上個會期大概是十月的時候也有建議說校安人員可以增加現在高中的校安人員是六個班一個可是國中是六十個班一個而且也是爭取"},{"start":1146.974,"end":1167.084,"text":"很久才得到的,這樣的一個那十月份的時候我有跟院長講說校很重要,那是不是可以我們一開始奢望說,忽然很多人要錢嘛是不是可以再增加一位,變成六十班兩位那我跟院長跟部長報告實際上那六十班增加那一位校運人員,他在學校裡面已經發揮"},{"start":1168.104,"end":1185.499,"text":"我覺得很多校長都覺得說有這個人有真的還不錯啦譬如說他們可以幫忙巡堂他們可以有一些學生的小衝突他可以幫忙排解然後上下班的時候他們也可以幫忙跟我們報告我想國民教育主要的"},{"start":1186.294,"end":1198.949,"text":"不是我們在卸責主要是在地方但是中央跟地方的共同合作以國教署我們現在目前700多所的735所的國中我們已經提供了"},{"start":1200.809,"end":1215.636,"text":"將近六百所,等於額外給他一個國中的這個所謂的校安行政人力所以超過八成以上,所以我要談的是說我也希望地方也要看到問題也要共同來承擔我還沒有講我的訴求啦,不要這樣子啦"},{"start":1220.678,"end":1232.726,"text":"你剛剛講的那一位校園委員就是我講的,就是六十班一位,是同一件事情我們現在討論說校園需不需要多一位我只是要跟委員報告,我應該由中央全部來承擔這樣的一個責任我是覺得是這樣子,我們討論這個東西,我們現在討論該不該做"},{"start":1240.205,"end":1267.47,"text":"如果說該做的話那當然教育部 部長等一下啦部長等一下好不好 我都還沒有講完好不好我都還沒講完 院長可不可以跟部長講一下至少讓我把問題講完嘛部長的意思很清楚了 中央或是地方該不該做我知道 地方早就該做我知道啦 我知道中央當然就是說應該地方在做嘛因為學校都是地方管的嘛但是今天因為我們教育部是主管全國的教育單位嘛"},{"start":1267.89,"end":1285.113,"text":"那如果教育部你認為站在全國的高度這個事情是應該做的那教育部當然就應該跟地方政府協調嘛去跟地方政府說我們覺得該做那是不是可以增加對不對你至少這個態度拿出來嘛至於說錢怎麼分那大家可以再討論嘛或者是"},{"start":1285.853,"end":1314.312,"text":"那如果說我們在跟教育部反應的時候,教育部的第一個反應是說那不關我,那是地方的事我們已經做了六十班一個,其他就是看地方啊那我就覺得失去了教育部存在的意義啦我就覺得失去教育部存在的意義因為教育部本來就是應該站在全國的高度如果這個東西是全國都需要的話,教育部就要去協調我覺得態度是這樣那接下來我們來討論這個事情該不該做所以我才會提到那一位消音人員,他有幫到忙"},{"start":1314.952,"end":1342.651,"text":"那我希望爭取多一位那十月份的時候教育部因為總諮詢有回函啦然後最後給我的結論是講說因為其實跟你剛剛回答差不多就是說已經含尋各地方政府收集協助事項並於114學年上學期結束後檢討並適時滾動經濟本計劃相關措施那我想問一下因為你已經滾動式檢討"},{"start":1347.072,"end":1364.936,"text":"所以現在有在進行嗎我們這個校安人員一直都在想各式各樣的一個方法跟地方合作希望當然剛開始都是中央我們釋出善意而且來協助地方優先因為上學期結束後檢討上學期已經結束了我是想問說你們現在檢討的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":1373.875,"end":1391.967,"text":"這會後我再跟委員做詳情報告所以你不知道?好,那沒有關係,你會後再補資料給我那院長,這樣子,有一件事情我覺得以你的高度應該也可以來處理一下因為這個校安人員,我們撇開人數來講,他大概薪水是四萬"},{"start":1393.948,"end":1410.175,"text":"那我一直在想說如果有一些退休的軍職人員或退休的警職人員他如果進去學校願意當這個校安人員的話實際上因為他過去有受過相關的訓練也許在校安的維護上比一般沒有受過這樣的訓練的人可能會更好一點"},{"start":1411.115,"end":1431.144,"text":"但是這些軍職人員 警職人員他其實面臨到一個問題就是如果你是軍工叫退休的話你再就業他會有一個薪資的上限那個上限是最低薪資所以如果校安人員他的薪水是四萬多的話那他就沒有辦法來做這個工作但其實他們是適合的"},{"start":1431.684,"end":1460.359,"text":"那我有一個建議啦其實跟教育部有關係最近發生一個現象謝謝教育部把那些就是代理老師或中年老師的這個中年費提高了嘛感謝大家爭取半天終於提高但我們覺得不夠啦如果更多會更好但是至少跨出第一步那現在因為在學校都缺老師缺老師的情況之下有一些課就會找退休的老師回來代課那退休老師回來代課他就是領中年費"},{"start":1461.308,"end":1483.084,"text":"那結果中年費提高那這些老師帶的課以前可能比如說是一個數字但是現在因為提高嘛所以他帶的課就變少了因為他一下就已經突破他的那個在就業薪資的天花板了那就造成說學校又要再找其他的人來帶課那其實你讓退休老師回來帶課是一件很好的事情為什麼呢 因為"},{"start":1484.776,"end":1510.593,"text":"那些老師都有教學的經驗他只是退休了所以我一直在想說可不可以院長我之前在委員會也有跟人事總署但是每次再問都是在研議我們都不知道研議到什麼時候是不是請院長重視這個事情針對那些退休軍公教再就業把天花板提高甚至取消你看我剛剛講的你讓軍職或者是教官他們回來學校"},{"start":1511.696,"end":1540.165,"text":"當教安人員他就不受這個天花板的限制了還有剛剛戴克老師不受天花板限制這個第一個可以解決教學現場的人力問題第二個我覺得從正當性來講因為當初訂定這個天花板在年改之前那你後來也年改了他的退休金也沒有領得像之前這麼多所以你讓他再就業的薪資提高我覺得是說得過去還有一個就是說你不是平白無故給他錢他其實是後來付出勞力貢獻社會取得的報酬"},{"start":1541.087,"end":1566.903,"text":"那這個部分你就算不給這些退休的軍公教做你請一個一般的人勞工也是要付一樣的薪水對國家也沒有損失所以我想說從這幾個面向是不是院長可以跟人事總處教育部研究一下像這些退休的軍公教回到校園甚至回到其他的領域做服務的話可以取消或者是拉高他的薪資上限不知道院長可以嗎"},{"start":1567.443,"end":1592.661,"text":"在教師能力目前上有考量的時候這不是一個好方法而且已經在執行了那委員現在重視的是說他回來繼續上課關於這個人事制度上這個費用薪資怎麼計算那請這個將來要不要整個人事制度的調整我跟委員報告一下大概分兩個部分一個部分這個牽涉到我們要再跟"},{"start":1593.931,"end":1615.699,"text":"另外一個就剛才委員有特別提到我們內部會從調高他的待遇的部分我們去做一些努力調高待遇什麼意思調高他薪資上限是不是大概會調高多少我現在沒有辦法給你一個明確的數字大概調高多少嗎沒有現在我們還在計算"},{"start":1623.215,"end":1630.761,"text":"我覺得就衡量我剛剛講幾個因素好不好就是說把他調高到上限然後讓他至少可以回到校園嘛"},{"start":1631.975,"end":1654.886,"text":"之類的 因為我們現在我在質詢教育的議題啦我是要解決教育現場的問題啦好不好 院長是不是可以幫忙盯一下這個事情我們可以這樣說 如果我們調高一些老師的待遇不要因為調高待遇影響現在在進行當中的不是不是 我現在講的不是那個院長你好像沒有聽懂我們質詢的議題啦上次我們調高的待遇 讓他課變少了啊"},{"start":1657.068,"end":1670.104,"text":"我現在講的是我們是希望調高老師待遇啦而且是越高越好沒問題少吃話我現在是針對退休軍公教的部分如果退休軍公教他再就業他會有一個薪資的上限"},{"start":1671.005,"end":1688.721,"text":"是針對退休 會超過所以我現在是針對退休軍公教希望把它的天花板把它打開所以我說我們調高待遇不要去影響現在已經在執行剛剛委員說的那個部分我們來做一個合理的這個檢討還有像剛剛講那個校安就是校安也可以一併來解決這樣好那接下來想問一下那個核電的問題我很快因為我時間"},{"start":1695.707,"end":1718.027,"text":"已經剩2分鐘了,我很快問一下,請問一下院長,我們現在要重啟核二核三嘛還要經過相當的程序,3月底要送再運轉計畫啦,我肯定啦,因為說實在的,那時候我們在通過核管法的時候,我們被亂罵一通啦還成為被罷免的理由啦,但是核管法實際上只是讓核二核三可以"},{"start":1719.068,"end":1738.188,"text":"重啟有法規鬆綁不會受到限制但至於說到底最後要不要送再運轉計畫決定權其實在台電跟經濟部跟行政院所以台電願意 核安會的委員會審所以我肯定因為你願意送這個計畫代表說你其實也想試試看能不能重啟"},{"start":1739.489,"end":1761.243,"text":"你想試試看,這已經...因為已經過了40年這個必須除役的年...對對對,就是說你願意送因為以前廢核家園是講到核就很害怕嘛,說不行不行這個怎麼還有人講到什麼國安問題什麼之類的那你現在願意送,代表你願意是我,這個我肯定但是行政院又講了一個三原則一個原則是,核安無虞"},{"start":1761.763,"end":1775.719,"text":"第二個叫核廢有解 第三個叫社會共識因為核安會會審 核安我們尊重專業社會共識其實這是一個伴隨而來的原則就是你只要告訴大家核安無虞 核廢又有解我相信社會就會高度共識"},{"start":1776.38,"end":1794.207,"text":"所以我覺得關鍵是核廢因為我在這幾天我還是聽到民進黨很多立委說你放心啦 核二核三不會重啟啊不然核廢料要放你家嗎核廢料要放你業人之家嗎我家 我就常常被嗆這件事如果核廢料可以放我家 我家早就滿了啦核廢料當然是要經過專業的處理但是我想問院長"},{"start":1795.467,"end":1823.363,"text":"因為院長我先要那個具體的回答核二按照台電的規劃核三按照台電的規劃最快最快是一個核三是2028可以重啟最快我現在我沒有辦法講最快或是最慢因為這個審查的過程他的老化他的太舊院長那我想問一下如果核安沒問題然後核廢有解的定義是什麼是要最終處置長出來嗎還是其實放到幹事處審查就可以最終處置長不因為是核二核三是否重啟而存在他一直都在"},{"start":1823.823,"end":1823.943,"text":"好 謝謝葉委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:06.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:06.264000+08:00","text":"主席好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:06.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:07.550000+08:00","text":"麻煩請行政院長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:08.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:09.138000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:09.138000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:15.921500+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:15.921500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:22.705000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:22.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:33.129000+08:00","text":"我先來關心一下物價上漲的問題，因為現在傳出來，連大家平常每天吃的米都要漲，所以漲價的危機似乎都已經來了。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:33.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:02:44.572000+08:00","text":"有一家國內算是蠻大的米商，他一天出貨大概數萬包米，每個月大概包米的材料要到1,000萬元。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:02:45.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:01.324000+08:00","text":"但是現在傳出來說他的上游，就是提供包裝給他的廠商跟他說，一開始是說要漲兩成，那現在說要漲到一倍了，那漲一倍之後，大家其實就會擔心米價是不是會跟著一起漲。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:01.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:17.994000+08:00","text":"然後另外，現在市場上有傳出很多塑膠類的東西囤貨的狀況，比如說有那個回收，就是類似那種塑膠用的那些餐具，現在也說有囤貨的狀況。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:17.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:23.797000+08:00","text":"那國人也會擔心，如果在吃的這一塊，這種每天必須要消費的東西上漲的話，那怎麼辦？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:24.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:27.940000+08:00","text":"我不知道包括院長或者是行政院這邊有沒有一些因應措施。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:29.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:29.495000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:29.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:44.301000+08:00","text":"我們同樣注意到今天有這樣一個媒體的報導，主要是因為包材，因為原物料的缺乏以及現在市場上價格往上調整的原因，倒不是米作這個農作物本身……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:44.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:50.284000+08:00","text":"我知道，我剛剛有講，不要重複我的問題，我現在是問行政院的因應措施是什麼？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:50.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:03:51.504000+08:00","text":"因為如果連米都要漲的話，我覺得對國人來說影響很大。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:03:51.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:12.259000+08:00","text":"對包材的問題，昨天已經說明清楚了，中油對於相關的塑膠材料的原物料會進行……中油會增加生產，也會請台塑恢復原來的供應量，希望這樣能夠從上游來增加原物料。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:12.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:15.041000+08:00","text":"問題是現在可能已經緩不濟急了，好不好？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:16.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:18.324000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:18.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:21.206000+08:00","text":"那我先問一下院長，那您預估一下米價會不會因為這樣子漲？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:21.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:21.907000+08:00","text":"大概會漲多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:21.907000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:23.243000+08:00","text":"大家要有一個心理準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:23.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:26.145000+08:00","text":"現在大概先漲了百分之二十左右吧。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:26.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:28.786000+08:00","text":"米會漲百分之二十？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:28.786000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:29.786000+08:00","text":"我是說包材。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:29.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:29.647000+08:00","text":"我說米啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:29.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:31.347000+08:00","text":"大家一般不會買包材嘛，我先從消費者這邊問……","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:32.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:40.472000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，就是您剛才所關切的米的包裝袋的部分，最主要是現在因為米商擔心會不夠，所以有加量訂購的……","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:40.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:47.556000+08:00","text":"不好意思、不好意思，院長跟部長，因為我們質詢時間有限，不要一直重複我的問題好不好？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:47.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:55.321000+08:00","text":"剛剛我的問題我都講過，我現在是問說，因為國人買米，國人不會去買米的包裝，所以大家關心的是米價的上漲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:55.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:04:58.103000+08:00","text":"關於米價的上漲，行政院的因應措施為何？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:04:58.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:00.064000+08:00","text":"還有預期大概米價會漲多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:00.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:02.806000+08:00","text":"你有沒有信心讓米價不會漲到很多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:02.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:13.573000+08:00","text":"我的問題在這邊，你不要一直重複我的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:13.573000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:24.340000+08:00","text":"以農業部的立場，我們現在正在協調，而且米商也基本上有承諾，因為包材本身占米的成本的百分比來講，他們都會吸收，所以我們會隨時了解米價的漲幅，不會因為塑膠袋微幅上漲以後就造成米價上漲。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:24.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:27.202000+08:00","text":"所以農業部有信心不會造成米價上漲就對了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:27.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:27.342000+08:00","text":"對，我們會……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:27.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:28.342000+08:00","text":"謝謝農業部長給這樣的承諾。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:28.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:29.342000+08:00","text":"我們會密切的關注，而且會適時的調整。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:27.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:29.103000+08:00","text":"也謝謝行政院長給這樣的承諾，不然的話，我覺得國人會非常擔心。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:29.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:30.384000+08:00","text":"我們會密切關注所有的發展，而且會適時的檢討。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:30.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:31.384000+08:00","text":"密切關注沒有用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:30.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:32.305000+08:00","text":"然後予以必要的平穩，物價穩定小組是每週都在對所有的大宗及民生物價進行觀測。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:49.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:05:53.142000+08:00","text":"因為院長有這個承諾，我覺得很高興，就是有注意到這個事情。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:05:53.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:06:20.495000+08:00","text":"再來，我想要來問一下有關於教育，就是我一直非常關心的教育的問題，我想院長應該都有看到，就是最近有關於校園暴力事件有幾件社會非常關注，其中有一個是在某一個國中，在校外有國二的女學生被幾個人圍住，然後被用鋁棒敲頭，敲了兩下，其中有一下那個鋁棒還發出聲響。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:06:20.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:06:37.937000+08:00","text":"換句話說，如果力道沒有控制好的話，這可能會有生命危險，另外也有一個國中一樣有類似的狀況，也是有女學生在廁所被堵了30分鐘，也是一樣下跪、被扯頭髮、被打，這樣的校園事件層出不窮。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:06:37.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:06:53.638000+08:00","text":"我先給院長看一個數據，最近私中熱潮越來越熱，雙北15間學校招生撞期，錄取率低於兩成。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:06:55.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:39.517000+08:00","text":"我們再來看一下各個學校的狀況，你看這是媒體整理的資料，像南山中學是4,000人報考、錄取1,000人，而它的錄取率，因為它的學生算多啦，所以它的錄取率有到兩成五，但你看有的學校，比如說靜心是錄取27人、450人報考，錄取率只有6%，其他像延平是錄取495人、報考3,300人，延平的報考人數多到它必須去跟其他學校借考場，這樣的一個私中熱潮，我先請問一下院長，你有注意到這個現象嗎？","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:39.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:40.817000+08:00","text":"校園的安全我們是列在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:41.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:45.079000+08:00","text":"你有沒有注意到大家擠破頭要進私校的狀況？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:45.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:46.859000+08:00","text":"你有注意到這個現象嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:46.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:47.499000+08:00","text":"擠破頭進私校？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:48.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:49.720000+08:00","text":"我剛剛不是已經給你看過了嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:51.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:52.571000+08:00","text":"你有沒有注意到這個現象？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:52.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:07:54.752000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員有說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:07:54.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:09.719000+08:00","text":"我跟你講你才知道嘛，我覺得這個是很嚴重的狀況，當然我知道院長可能不是那麼關心教育，但是教育是國家的根本，如果私校面臨到這個狀況，當然你要去了解一下是什麼原因、為什麼會出現這個情形。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:10.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:12.561000+08:00","text":"部長，您知道這個狀況嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:12.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:13.321000+08:00","text":"我知道、我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:13.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:15.762000+08:00","text":"那你知道特別原因是什麼？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:15.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:16.723000+08:00","text":"臺北市特別嚴重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:17.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:18.344000+08:00","text":"臺北市特別嚴重，原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:19.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:08:40.568000+08:00","text":"我想現在少子化，每一個小孩都是家庭的寶，臺北的一些家庭相對的經濟情況也比較好，當然委員所關心學校怎麼樣提供一個更友善的校園學習環境、教學的環境，當然也是家長所在意的。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:08:42.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:05.340000+08:00","text":"我們繼續來看，剛剛部長有提到少子化，我們接下來往下看，關於少子化，公立國小的學生人數確實在113年是下跌的，從106到112，公立學校的學生人數有往上，到113年下跌，但是私立國小的學生人數是不斷的成長。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:05.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:37.156000+08:00","text":"實際上我們可以看到，你現在看私中的小學生就讀的數據，就讀私立國小的學生從10年前2.8%，現在已經到3.8%，每26個國小生就有1位是讀私立國小，而就讀私立國中的學生從十年前11.7%，現在已經達到14.4%，所以私中或私小學生的就讀率提高，這是一個趨勢，真正的原因是什麼呢？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:37.156000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:40.941000+08:00","text":"我想委員在看……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:40.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:43.443000+08:00","text":"沒關係，感覺上你們好像也沒有很關心啦！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:43.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:44.745000+08:00","text":"我直接把答案告訴你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:44.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:51.872000+08:00","text":"我不是不關心，但我們尊重，當我們的義務教育、國民教育供給量遠大於需求量的時候……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:51.872000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:52.872000+08:00","text":"我是問院長啦！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:52.872000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:53.872000+08:00","text":"我們當然有許多不同型態的教育方式，我們當然給予尊重。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:53.872000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:09:54.872000+08:00","text":"我是問院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:09:52.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:05.784000+08:00","text":"不好意思，部長，我今天來是想要跟院長對話，我想要跟院長對話，因為院長畢竟是最高行政首長，院長是最高行政首長，有的時候這些問題也不是教育部單一部會可以解決啦！","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:06.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:13.368000+08:00","text":"所以今天才要在總質詢來問，所以請你尊重我，我想要多一點時間去跟院長對話，部長，這樣可以嗎？好。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:14.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:21.934000+08:00","text":"「親子天下」有去訪問非常多校長，它得到一個結論，為什麼大家都擠破頭要去私中呢？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:22.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:26.496000+08:00","text":"有一個趨勢，它說：安全感是家長最在乎的關鍵字！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:28.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:33.843000+08:00","text":"你看第一句話就說：校園安全是家長選校的首要考量！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:34.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:47.097000+08:00","text":"換言之，其實現在很多家長要把小朋友送到什麼學校、是公校或私校，其實他考慮的是我的小朋友送到學校裡面去安不安全、會不會面臨到校園暴力這些狀況。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:47.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:53.102000+08:00","text":"為什麼剛剛我說這個不是教育部一個單部可以解決的？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:53.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:54.583000+08:00","text":"其實我是幫教育部講話啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:55.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:10:57.826000+08:00","text":"我幫學校老師講話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:10:57.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:10.234000+08:00","text":"很多人只要發生這樣的事件，第一個直覺就是校長沒有管好、老師沒有管好、校長出來道歉、老師出來道歉，或者是要求教育部全面徹查全國的校安通報有沒有狀況。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:11.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:19.558000+08:00","text":"但有的時候並不完全是學校可以處理的，比如說，有一些有校園暴力行為的這些學生，背後都有乾哥啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:19.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:20.798000+08:00","text":"背後都有乾姐啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:21.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:28.620000+08:00","text":"那我就問，請問一個校長、一個老師怎麼獨自去面對背後有乾哥、有乾姐的這些學生？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:29.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:31.061000+08:00","text":"學校有辦法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:31.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:33.022000+08:00","text":"部長，你認為學校老師或學校校長有辦法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:34.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:41.215000+08:00","text":"我想學校在這個部分過去也累積了一些經驗，跟地方的警政單位、還有社工、還有許多醫療……","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:42.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:45.280000+08:00","text":"我是說你認為學校老師……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:45.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:46.280000+08:00","text":"學校當然沒有辦法完全處理……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:45.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:48.003000+08:00","text":"沒有辦法獨立完成嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:48.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:11:58.073000+08:00","text":"它是整個社會體系，包括它要結合社政、結合警政，甚至於家庭，都要一起努力，才有可能讓這種事情不會一再發生嘛！是。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:11:58.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:12:04.418000+08:00","text":"所以第一個就是不要完全去怪教育、學校，這是我幫學校老師講話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:12:04.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:12:09.422000+08:00","text":"第二個，當然也是要請部長希望能夠去統合各個資源，讓這樣的問題不要再繼續發生。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:12:09.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:12:40.067000+08:00","text":"我自己是有提一個法案，我上次在質詢的時候有提兩個建議，一個建議是我們應該要成立一個專屬學校，那個專屬學校提供資源或輔導資源，讓這些可能在學校裡面平常就帶刀械上課，或者是他有校園暴力行為，背後有乾哥、乾姐的這種人，他在學校裡面，一個學校只要有一個，全校的師生都會受到影響，那怎麼辦？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:12:40.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:12:48.790000+08:00","text":"上一次院長、部長的回答是說沒關係，我們會增加輔導資源，我們的輔導很棒什麼的，但是沒有用就是沒有用！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:12:48.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:12:49.851000+08:00","text":"現在就是沒有用！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:12:50.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:12:51.111000+08:00","text":"所以怎麼辦呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:12:51.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:13:10.921000+08:00","text":"我建議我們可以委託很不錯的教育團體成立一個專屬學校，然後把這一些在學校可能會威脅其他師生生命安全的學生移到那個專屬學校去，那大家會說強制他轉學，是不是會再造成其他學校的問題？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:13:10.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:13:19.228000+08:00","text":"我再次強調，不是轉到一般其他的學校，因為轉到其他學校就變成是其他學校的問題，而是轉到一個專屬學校，可以公辦民營或公辦公營。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:13:20.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:13:47.817000+08:00","text":"對於這個部分，教育部以前也有經驗，例如說以前你們有成立實驗學校，實驗學校它有各自的特色，但我們這個學校就是加強輔導資源、社工或各方面的資源，針對我剛剛講的那些可能會成為校園暴力因子的學生加強資源，讓他適才適所，針對他們提供教育，我的建議是這樣，我不知道院長認不認同這樣的方向，細節我覺得我們可以討論。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:13:49.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:13:57.604000+08:00","text":"因為上次講了，教育部沒有動作，所以我已經提出專法，針對這個專法，我們上次在委員會也開過公聽會，院長支不支持這樣的方向？","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:13:58.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:25.115000+08:00","text":"很多對於這種青少年或是其他行為療癒的過程當中，我們都曾經說過回歸社區也許是一個比較崇高的理想，但是對一個年輕人的人格養成，如果能夠讓他回歸社區、回歸自然，讓他未來有成長的空間，這是比較好的；所以我認為把他們集中式的管理，不見得是教育上最好的方法。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:25.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:28.697000+08:00","text":"成立一個學校，院長……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:28.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:29.697000+08:00","text":"那就是集中式管理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:28.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:33.900000+08:00","text":"我覺得你們在談論事情永遠都是站在這些加害人的角度……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:33.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:34.900000+08:00","text":"不是、不是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:34.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:39.423000+08:00","text":"比如說拿鋁棒去敲女學生的頭……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:39.423000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:40.423000+08:00","text":"那已經是犯罪行為了。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:39.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:43.725000+08:00","text":"那個力道如果沒有控制好的話，女學生的生命可能會喪失。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:43.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:44.725000+08:00","text":"那已經是犯罪行為、是司法要去處理的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:43.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:55.851000+08:00","text":"但是我在跟你討論怎麼去解決類似這樣的一個校園問題，但院長的回復永遠都是那些打人的學生不用回到社區嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:55.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:57.111000+08:00","text":"他們的人權不重要嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:57.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:14:58.932000+08:00","text":"他們的受教權不重要嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:14:59.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:02.493000+08:00","text":"我要問：被打的學生受教權不重要嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:03.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:05.133000+08:00","text":"委員的前提錯了，打人的學生應該受到校規和法律的制裁。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:06.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:13.916000+08:00","text":"但是他繼續在校園裡成為大家恐懼的對象，所以你沒有辦法解決這個問題嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:15.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:23.781000+08:00","text":"我也很支持、認同你的部分觀點，那些打人的學生，拿鋁棒敲人、甚至發生國三割喉案的那個兇手，你們都希望最後……","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:25.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:27.283000+08:00","text":"不能把他留在校園裡面啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:27.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:31.405000+08:00","text":"那個人就是進到校園才殺人的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:32.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:40.303000+08:00","text":"他就是進到校園才殺人的，我現在就是針對這一些還沒有殺人……因為他殺人才能被抓去關……對啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:40.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:47.044000+08:00","text":"換句話說，他們在學校裡面變成一顆不定時炸彈，可是他什麼時候會離開呢？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:47.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:49.005000+08:00","text":"是等到他殺人，他才能離開。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:49.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:51.586000+08:00","text":"那誰來判斷？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:51.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:15:56.487000+08:00","text":"現在所有的家長都在想他什麼時候離開，要等他犯了嚴重的法律之後才能離開。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:15:58.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:00.248000+08:00","text":"很多輔導的過程就是在針對這些……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:01.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:02.089000+08:00","text":"輔導就是沒有用啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:02.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:05.491000+08:00","text":"院長，輔導要是有用的話就不會發生這樣的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:05.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:09.174000+08:00","text":"那誰來決定某甲要被放到這個學校裡面？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:09.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:34.146000+08:00","text":"對，這些細節部分在我的專法裡面都有寫，由專家、教育部或者像院長關心教育的話也可以參加，一起來決定，當然不是只要犯一點錯就要讓你離開，不是，而是他真的每天帶刀上課，如果一個班上有一個同學每天帶蝴蝶刀上課，甚至在課堂上耍弄蝴蝶刀，你覺得那個學校的師生不會緊張嗎？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:34.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:41.149000+08:00","text":"老師、學校的行政人員就應該有所警惕，事先做好這些規範跟防範，並且要有全面的機制。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:41.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:50.432000+08:00","text":"你現在又把責任推給行政人員，因為他背後都有乾哥、乾姐，我剛剛已經講了，有時候學校的行政人員也沒有辦法處理啦！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:51.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:16:53.429000+08:00","text":"我先問你認不認同嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:16:53.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:17:11.394000+08:00","text":"因為你是要保護絕大多數想要安心上學的學生，讓他們的家長放心，讓老師可以好好教書，還是針對那一、兩個帶刀械上課，在學校會有嚴重暴力但是一直在學校裡面的學生，你比較在乎誰嘛？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:17:12.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:17:15.735000+08:00","text":"有這種嚴重暴力的學生繼續留在學校當然不行啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:17:16.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:17:37.804000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，但是他現在就留在學校，所以我才會提出一個專法，針對院長剛才的顧慮，有關細部的部分我們都可以來討論，可是我希望在大方向上面可以得到你的支持，針對你剛才也有提到那些有重大暴力但一直留在學校的學生，我們可以另外成立專屬學校，強制他轉學到那邊……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:17:37.804000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:17:38.804000+08:00","text":"我歡迎……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:17:37.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:17:50.590000+08:00","text":"但那個學校也是學校，不是大家想的好像是集中管理或集中營，不是，它也是一所學校，也可以108課綱或各種德、智、體、群、美，通通都可以。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:17:51.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:17:54.692000+08:00","text":"在裡面誰來管比較有這些傾向的人？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:17:55.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:07.920000+08:00","text":"這個學校我有建議找一些教育團體，他們有很多理念也想實踐，像以人為本的、正向教育、愛的教育啊！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:08.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:18.426000+08:00","text":"讓他們在這個地方感覺到很正向，他們的暴戾之氣就沒有了，他們在那邊好好學習，讓原來的學校得到喘息，這是兩全其美。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:18.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:27.167000+08:00","text":"委員，關於校園的安全，歡迎你提出任何的想法，這個經過大家審慎的討論，跟專家、學者團體、教育人員都好好的了解，也讓家長都能夠了解。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:28.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:32.248000+08:00","text":"我現在只是問院長，這個大方向你支不支持？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:32.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:33.948000+08:00","text":"如果你支持的話……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:33.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:36.909000+08:00","text":"如果大方向是維持校園的安全，沒有人反對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:38.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:48.692000+08:00","text":"支不支持針對那些有暴力、可能會殺人或他的存在會讓其他師生感到恐懼的這些學生……","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:49.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:51.133000+08:00","text":"有暴力、會殺人的不應該留在校園。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:51.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:51.853000+08:00","text":"對，你說的喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:52.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:18:56.695000+08:00","text":"有暴力、會殺人的，有這種行為就不該留在校園，他如果有這種傾向要提早發現……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:18:57.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:06.599000+08:00","text":"你是說殺人以後不該留在校園，還是說他可能會殺人，比如說他每天帶刀但他沒殺人，但是他每天帶刀你也沒辦法拿他怎麼樣啊！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:06.599000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:09.138000+08:00","text":"現在的學生真的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:09.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:19.021000+08:00","text":"這個行為如何去判斷要經過包括司法、犯罪學、還有心理學的專家去討論怎麼樣界定這個行為。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:19.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:27.544000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，其實，院長你講的跟我的立法方向大致上是一致，因為我也是認為不應該誰怎麼樣就隨便把他轉到……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:27.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:28.544000+08:00","text":"那當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:27.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:34.927000+08:00","text":"但是如果出現這種狀況，連司法的學者或者是犯罪學專家或者是……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:34.927000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:35.927000+08:00","text":"心理的、輔導的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:35.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:49.614000+08:00","text":"很多專家都認為這種學生雖然還沒殺人，但是他留在學校已經造成其他人的恐懼，而且他是隨時有可能拿刀子往別人身上捅的這種人，我們把他強制轉學到專屬學校。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:49.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:50.614000+08:00","text":"制度可以好好討論。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:49.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:50.374000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，因為我們已經開過公聽會了……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:50.374000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:19:51.374000+08:00","text":"我們尊重家長跟教育學者。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:19:50.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:05.940000+08:00","text":"對，我們已經開過公聽會了，所以接下來的細節，院長，因為我們一個會期才能見你一次，那希望你跟部長講一下，我們之後跟部長好好討論。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:05.940000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:06.940000+08:00","text":"部長，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:05.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:08.101000+08:00","text":"院長大方向認同啦。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:08.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:11.362000+08:00","text":"部長很關心教育，你不要一開始就說部長不關心教育。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:12.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:12.602000+08:00","text":"沒有，我沒有說他啦。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:12.602000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:13.602000+08:00","text":"一開始啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:13.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:27.566000+08:00","text":"他很關心，是你比較不關心，因為我剛剛問你說私立學校的狀況，你說你不知道嘛，但是現在所有家長都有注意到私立學校擠破頭的狀況，院長，你可能國政大事太多，教育比較放後面啦，但是部長是很關心的啦，所以……","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:27.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:30.306000+08:00","text":"教育是我們重要的國家大政，怎麼會放後面呢？","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:31.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:42.849000+08:00","text":"我插個話，院長對教育事實上是非常關心的，包含教師的福利等等，都是在院長的指示下，我們積極的去尋求一些解決方案。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:43.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:20:43.489000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:20:45.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:21:08.035000+08:00","text":"再來，針對校安的部分，除了剛剛講的那個專法，因為院長認為大方向可行，細節我們再來討論之外，我上個會期大概是10月的時候，也有建議校安人員可以增加，現在高中的校安人員是6個班一個，可是國中是60個班一個，而且也是爭取很久才得到的。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:21:10.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:21:20.641000+08:00","text":"10月份的時候我有跟院長說校安很重要，是不是可以……我們不敢一開始奢望忽然增加很多，因為要錢嘛，但是不是可以再增加一位，變成60班兩位？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:21:21.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:21:40.955000+08:00","text":"我跟院長跟部長報告，實際上60班增加一位校安人員，他在學校裡面已經發揮……很多校長都覺得有這個人真的還不錯啦，譬如他們可以幫忙巡堂；學生有一些小衝突，他可以幫忙排解；然後上下班的時候，他們也可以幫忙顧前顧後。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:21:41.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:06.332000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想國民教育不是我們在卸責，主要是在地方，但是中央跟地方會共同合作，以國教署來說，目前735所國中，我們已經額外提供了將近600所國中所謂的校安行政人力……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:06.332000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:08.252000+08:00","text":"這就是我講的啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:08.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:14.795000+08:00","text":"所以超過八成以上，所以我要談的是，我也希望地方看到問題也要共同來承擔，來思索解決的……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:14.795000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:15.795000+08:00","text":"部長，等一下！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:14.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:15.616000+08:00","text":"我還沒有講我的訴求，不要這樣子啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:20.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:29.404000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講的那一位校安人員，就是我講的60班一位，這是同一件事情，我們現在討論校園需不需要多一位……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:29.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:30.704000+08:00","text":"我只是要跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:30.704000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:31.704000+08:00","text":"我知道、我知道，因為教育……","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:30.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:31.985000+08:00","text":"不應該由中央全部來承擔這樣一個責任。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:32.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:41.705000+08:00","text":"我是覺得這樣啦，我們現在討論該不該做，如果說……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:41.705000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:42.705000+08:00","text":"我認為當然應該……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:41.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:44.066000+08:00","text":"對，如果說該做的話，那當然教育部……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:44.066000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:45.066000+08:00","text":"將近兩年前我進來就是主張這樣的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:44.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:47.426000+08:00","text":"部長，等一下啦，部長，等一下，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:47.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:49.887000+08:00","text":"我都還沒有講完。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:50.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:51.567000+08:00","text":"院長可不可以跟部長講一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:51.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:53.067000+08:00","text":"至少讓我把問題講完嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:53.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:56.548000+08:00","text":"部長的意思很清楚，中央或地方該不該做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:56.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:57.168000+08:00","text":"對，我知道！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:57.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:22:58.108000+08:00","text":"地方早就該做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:22:58.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:23:19.185000+08:00","text":"我知道啦，我知道中央當然就是說應該是地方要做，因為學校都是地方管的，但是今天因為教育部是主管全國的教育單位，教育部站在全國的高度，如果認為這個事情是應該做的，那教育部當然就應該跟地方政府協調，去跟地方政府說：我們覺得該做，那是不是可以增加？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:23:20.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:23:24.632000+08:00","text":"至少拿出這個態度嘛，至於說錢怎麼分，大家可以再討論。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:23:26.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:23:37.781000+08:00","text":"如果我們在跟教育部反映的時候，教育部的第一個反應是那不關我的事，這是地方的事，我們已經做了，60班一個，其他就是看地方，那我就覺得失去了教育部存在的意義了。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:23:37.781000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:23:38.781000+08:00","text":"教育部絕對沒有這樣的態度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:23:38.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:23:48.508000+08:00","text":"我就覺得失去教育部存在的意義，因為教育部本來就是應該站在全國的高度，如果這個東西是全國都需要的話，教育部就要去協調，我覺得態度是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:23:48.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:23:56.633000+08:00","text":"接下來我們來討論這個事情該不該做，所以我才會提到那一位校安人員有幫到忙，我希望爭取多一位。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:23:57.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:24:20.489000+08:00","text":"10月份的時候，因為總質詢之後教育部有回函，最後給我的結論其實跟你剛剛的回答差不多，就是說已經函詢各地方政府蒐集協助事項，並於114學年上學期結束後檢討，適時滾動精進本計畫相關措施。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:24:21.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:24:31.033000+08:00","text":"那我想問一下，因為照理說你已經在上學期結束後滾動式檢討，所以現在有在進行嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:24:31.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:24:42.775000+08:00","text":"關於校安人員，我們一直都在想各式各樣的方法，跟地方合作，當然剛開始都是中央釋出善意，而且來協助地方優先增加……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:24:43.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:24:44.936000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有，我現在問是因為上學期結束後要檢討，上學期已經結束了，我是想問你們現在檢討的狀況是怎麼樣。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-03-31T09:24:53.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:24:56.057000+08:00","text":"這個會後我再跟委員做進一步的報告。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:24:57.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:24:57.578000+08:00","text":"所以你不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:24:58.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:25:01.420000+08:00","text":"好，沒有關係，你會後再補資料給我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:25:02.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:25:30.175000+08:00","text":"院長，有一件事情我覺得以你的高度應該也可以來處理一下，對於校安人員我們撇開人數來講，他的薪水大概是4萬，我一直在想，有一些退休的軍職人員或退休的警職人員如果願意去學校當校安人員的話，實際上因為他過去有受過相關的訓練，也許在校安維護上和一般沒有受過這樣訓練的人相比可能會更好一點。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:25:31.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:25:51.124000+08:00","text":"但是這些軍職人員、警職人員其實面臨到一個問題，如果是軍公教退休的話，再就業會有薪資上限，那個上限是最低薪資，所以如果校安人員薪水是四萬多的話，那他就沒有辦法做這個工作，但其實他們是適合的。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:25:51.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:04.010000+08:00","text":"我有一個建議，其實這跟教育部也有關係，最近發生一個現象，謝謝教育部把那些代理老師或鐘點老師的鐘點費提高了，感謝！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:04.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:06.031000+08:00","text":"大家爭取了半天終於提高，當然我們覺得不夠啦！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:06.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:08.693000+08:00","text":"如果更多會更好，但是至少跨出第一步。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:10.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:38.380000+08:00","text":"現在因為學校都缺老師，在缺老師的情況之下，有一些課就會找退休的老師回來代課，退休老師回來代課就是領鐘點費，結果鐘點費提高，而這些老師代課以前可能比如說是領一個數字，但現在由於提高，所以他代的課就變少，因為一下子就已經突破他再就業薪資的天花板，那就造成學校又要再找其他的人來代課。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:39.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:42.844000+08:00","text":"其實讓退休老師回來代課是一件很好的事情，為什麼呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:43.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:47.578000+08:00","text":"因為那些老師都有教學經驗，他只是退休了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:47.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:26:55.804000+08:00","text":"所以我一直在想，我之前在委員會也有問人事行政總處，但是每次問都是說在研議，我們都不知道要研議到什麼時候。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:26:55.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:27:04.169000+08:00","text":"是不是請院長重視這個事情，針對那些退休軍公教再就業，把天花板提高甚至取消？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:27:05.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:27:13.997000+08:00","text":"像我剛剛講的讓退休的軍職人員或軍訓教官回來學校當校安人員，他就不受這個天花板的限制了嘛！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:27:14.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:27:33.763000+08:00","text":"包括剛剛提的代課老師，不受天花板的限制：第一個，這可以解決教學現場的人力問題；第二個，我覺得從正當性來講，因為當初訂定這個天花板是在年改之前，後來也實施年改了，他的退休金也沒有領得像之前這麼多了，所以你讓他再就業的薪資提高，我覺得是說得過去啦！","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:27:34.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:27:49.612000+08:00","text":"還有一個就是，你不是平白無故給他錢，他其實是後來付出勞力、貢獻社會而取得報酬，這個部分你就算不給這些退休的軍公教做，你請一個一般的人、勞工也是要付一樣的薪水，對國家來說也沒有損失。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:27:50.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:27:56.036000+08:00","text":"所以我想從這幾個面向，院長是不是可以跟人事行政總處、教育部研究一下？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:27:57.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:06.903000+08:00","text":"像這些退休軍公教回到校園甚至回到其他領域服務的話，可以取消或者拉高他的薪資上限，院長，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:07.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:13.327000+08:00","text":"在教師人力目前尚有考量的時候，這不失是一個好方法，而且已經在執行了。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:14.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:27.097000+08:00","text":"因為委員現在重視的是他回來繼續上課，關於人事制度上這個費用薪資怎麼計算，將來要不要做整個人事制度的調整，請人事長說明一下。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下，大概分兩個部分","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:29.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:42.835000+08:00","text":"有一個部分，這牽涉到我們要再跟銓敘部談；另外一個，剛才委員特別提到，我們內部會從調高他的待遇部分，我們去做一些努力。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:43.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:44.775000+08:00","text":"調高待遇是什麼意思？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:44.775000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:45.775000+08:00","text":"就是他……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:44.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:47.236000+08:00","text":"調高他的薪資上限，是不是？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:47.236000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:48.236000+08:00","text":"嗯，薪資上限……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:47.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:48.177000+08:00","text":"大概會調高多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:48.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:49.177000+08:00","text":"那個我們要再詳細去算。幾萬……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:48.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:53.599000+08:00","text":"我現在沒有辦法給你一個明確的數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:53.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:54.359000+08:00","text":"大概調高多少嘛？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.179000+08:00","text":"沒有，現在……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.179000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:56.179000+08:00","text":"現在還要再討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.499000+08:00","text":"現在我們還在研議……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.679000+08:00","text":"還在計算？嗯……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:55.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:28:59.447000+08:00","text":"還在計算。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇人事長俊榮","start":"2026-03-31T09:28:59.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:03.215000+08:00","text":"就是跟調薪那個……其實整組都在討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:03.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:06.718000+08:00","text":"我覺得就衡量我剛剛講的幾個因素，好不好？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:08.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:12.115000+08:00","text":"把它調高到上限，讓他至少可以回到校園之類的。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:12.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:16.177000+08:00","text":"現在我在質詢教育的議題，我是要解決教育現場的問題，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:16.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:19.339000+08:00","text":"院長，是不是可以幫忙盯一下這個事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:19.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:27.122000+08:00","text":"我們可以這樣說，如果我們調高一些老師的待遇，不要因為調高待遇而影響現在在進行當中的……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:27.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:29.943000+08:00","text":"不是，我現在講的不是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:29.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:30.943000+08:00","text":"他回來上課……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:30.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:32.265000+08:00","text":"院長，你好像沒有聽懂我們質詢的議題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:32.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:34.566000+08:00","text":"我們調高了待遇，讓他課變少了啊！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:34.566000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:35.817000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:35.817000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:37.068000+08:00","text":"他能上的節數變了啊！","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:37.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:51.526000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是，我們希望調高老師待遇，而且是越高越好，因為現在少師化，我現在是針對退休軍公教的部分，如果退休軍公教再就業，會有一個薪資的上限，是針對退休……","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:52.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:52.767000+08:00","text":"它會超過嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:52.767000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:53.767000+08:00","text":"對，會超過。是啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:52.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:29:57.991000+08:00","text":"所以我現在是針對退休軍公教，希望把他的天花板打開，我剛剛……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:29:57.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:05.278000+08:00","text":"所以我說我們調高待遇，不要去影響現在已經在執行的剛剛委員說的那個部分，我們請人事行政總處來做一個合理的檢討。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:05.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:06.899000+08:00","text":"還有剛剛講的校安人員，也可以一併來解決。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:07.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:07.960000+08:00","text":"時間有限，接下來想很快地問一下核電的問題。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:18.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:21.012000+08:00","text":"請問一下院長，我們現在要重啟核二、核三，已經……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:21.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:23.234000+08:00","text":"還要經過相當的程序。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:23.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:24.755000+08:00","text":"我知道，3月底要送再運轉計畫。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:25.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:26.276000+08:00","text":"我肯定啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:26.276000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:27.276000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:26.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:49.098000+08:00","text":"因為說實在的，我們當初通過核管法修正案的時候被亂罵一通，還成為被罷免的理由，但是修正核管法其實只是讓核二、核三重啟的法規鬆綁，不會受到限制，至於最後到底要不要送再運轉計畫，決定權其實在台電、經濟部跟行政院，所以台電願意……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:49.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:52.862000+08:00","text":"是由核安會委員審查。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:52.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:53.862000+08:00","text":"核安會之後會審啦！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:52.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:30:58.188000+08:00","text":"所以我肯定，因為你願意送這個計畫，代表其實你也想要試試看能不能重啟。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:30:59.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:00.510000+08:00","text":"你想要試試看，這已經……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:00.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:03.652000+08:00","text":"因為已經突破40年必須除役的年限規範……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:04.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:14.979000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，就是你願意送，因為以前標榜非核家園，講到「核」都很令人害怕，覺得不行、不行，還有人講到國安問題之類的，但你現在願意送，代表你願意試，這個我肯定。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:15.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:25.047000+08:00","text":"但是行政院又講了三個原則：第一個是核安無虞；第二個是核廢有解；第三個是社會共識。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:25.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:38.081000+08:00","text":"核安方面，因為核安會會審，我們尊重專業；社會共識其實是一個伴隨而來的原則，就是你只要告訴大家核安無虞、核廢又有解，我相信社會就會有高度共識，所以我覺得關鍵是核廢。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:38.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:41.362000+08:00","text":"因為我在這幾天還是聽到很多民進黨立委說：你放心啦！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:41.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:42.402000+08:00","text":"核二、核三不會重啟啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:42.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:44.023000+08:00","text":"不然核廢料要放你家嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:44.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:45.623000+08:00","text":"核廢料放你葉元之家嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:46.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:47.544000+08:00","text":"我就常常被嗆這件事啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:48.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:50.525000+08:00","text":"如果核廢料可以放我家，我家早就滿了啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:51.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:53.526000+08:00","text":"核廢料當然是要經過專業的處理！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:53.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:31:57.188000+08:00","text":"但是我想問院長，希望院長能具體回答。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:31:57.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:05.193000+08:00","text":"核二、核三按照台電的規劃，核三最快是2028年可以重啟，最快！所以……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:05.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:11.016000+08:00","text":"我現在沒有辦法講最快或最慢，因為在審查的過程中，有關它的老化、它的汰舊，這不是我……","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:11.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:15.839000+08:00","text":"院長，那我想問一下，如果核安沒問題，核廢有解的定義是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:15.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:18.660000+08:00","text":"是要最終處置場出來，還是其實放在乾式儲存槽也可以？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:18.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:23.343000+08:00","text":"其實最終處置場的問題不因為核二、核三是否重啟而存在，它一直都在。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:23.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:24.343000+08:00","text":"一直都在？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:24.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:25.343000+08:00","text":"那核廢有解的定義是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:25.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:26.343000+08:00","text":"核廢有解是最終處置場……我們早就已經有一個專案辦公室在處理這個事情，不因為這次重啟的案件……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:26.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:27.343000+08:00","text":"這是兩回事？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:27.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:28.343000+08:00","text":"所以核廢有解和最終處置場無關！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:28.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:29.343000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:23.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:23.943000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝葉委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:24.443000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:28.157286+08:00","text":"委員最後一句話是你自己說的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:28.457286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:30.171571+08:00","text":"也謝謝卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:30.471571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:31.471571+08:00","text":"你剛剛……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:31.771571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:36.057286+08:00","text":"專案辦公室一直在處理，怎麼會無關！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:36.357286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:37.357286+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:37.657286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:38.657286+08:00","text":"我是說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:38.957286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:42.100143+08:00","text":"好，我們請邱議瑩委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-03-31T09:32:42.400143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-31T09:32:48.971571+08:00","text":"我是說最終處置場還沒有找到之前也可以重啟嘛！謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}