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楊泉發言人邀請國發會國會議主委委員長主委長 建議全球能源結構性快速的一個調整歐盟也在3月份的時候公開承認降低核能占比是一個戰略的錯誤而且他們加大"},{"start":27.404,"end":43.302,"text":"對核能的一個投資那日本在2月份的時候也重啟核電東南亞更有很多的國家因為AI的這個資料中心用電需求暴增跟能源安全的一個考量那麼他們也加速核能發展"},{"start":44.463,"end":69.604,"text":"那可以看出說國際的這個能源趨勢已經很明確的朝向核能視為兼具穩定供電低碳轉型及國家安全的重要基礎設施那我們再來看看本席也在跟你討論也就是說在AI產業快速的一個擴張跟這個再生能源被動性的一個提高之下"},{"start":70.365,"end":97.88,"text":"供電系統的韌性我們面臨到很大的一個挑戰那如果說我們的能源政策沒有辦法就穩定基載的這個電力提出明確的這個方向呢那恐怕要投資的人的一個信心跟整個長期的競爭力是會受影響所以本席首先要請教面對全球核能復興跟AI用電的需求爆發那麼現在我們"},{"start":98.78,"end":115.148,"text":"自己本身現行的能源政策是不是足以能夠來支撐未來高耗能的一個產業發展還是將這些供電的風險去轉嫁到競爭力的一個流失請主委說明"},{"start":116.188,"end":140.96,"text":"謝謝委員在這邊跟委員報告就是說我們目前台灣目前還沒有一個確定的一個狀況當然未來假如說一些資料中心的興建或者是AI更蓬勃的發展的話對用電的需求其實是會增加是沒有錯那就我這邊的資料來看的話經濟部這邊其實有預估未來10年的用電的情況那每一年大概會增加1GW"},{"start":142.981,"end":159.347,"text":"做整個供電來講的話經濟部這邊預估就是說我們國內供電會有1.2個GW所以在未來10年看起來是供需上面來講的話應該是還不會有很大問題但是我們很難去預估說10年後的有沒有更"},{"start":160.951,"end":179.15,"text":"一個用電的那個狀況所以現階段就是說經濟部他們有再重新再評估就是說核三或是核二這個部分的話是不是會再重新再去經由兩個兩個必要跟三個原則的條件情況之下的話去看看就是說核能是不是"},{"start":180.672,"end":196.859,"text":"假如說萬一有需要的話那是不是能夠及時的提供這樣的一個供電那你身為國防會主委你以10年來計算每一天世界的變化非常的大本席也提出世界各國目前的方向是什麼"},{"start":197.699,"end":213.066,"text":"那如果剛剛照主委你所說的第一個我們沒有現在這樣的預估第二個你說經濟部或許他們在10年會有什麼樣的方向但是本席認為還是有形因為這樣子的一個回答"},{"start":213.886,"end":241.307,"text":"跟世界的一個進度跟產業的需求似乎還有很大的落差所以本席還是希望剛剛你特別說了經濟部長市長你上來了那你就回答你們的用電產業需求AI的高機載量能你們預作怎麼樣的準備好跟委員報告其實我們剛剛主委有提到我們每年都有做這個未來10年這個電力工序的調查"},{"start":242.648,"end":263.76,"text":"我們推估以AI的需求再加上半導體的這些需要大概2030年我們會增加5G的電力5G以上的電力但是我們台電這邊都有一個增加燃氣機組的一些裝置容量的建置我們到2034年我們會進增加12點"},{"start":266.582,"end":282.313,"text":"市長 本期要請教的就是說 你照預估10年你們怎麼做但是現在加入的AI用電的一個需求爆發全世界都以核能的復興為走向你們有將這個評估納入在裡面嗎"},{"start":286.169,"end":301.435,"text":"這兩項因子有沒有納入在裡面目前是沒有沒有納進好我聽到你的回答大家產業就是在憂心最重要的兩個因素你們並沒有納入我希望你好好的去思考好不好這一定要好好去思考我們今天難怪產業會緊張嘛因為這個重點你們沒有納入嘛那你只有告訴我們這樣難怪產業會緊張嘛好好的去思考產業的新生你必須要聽到"},{"start":312.639,"end":334.319,"text":"好 接下來本席要請教現在因為中東戰爭的這些問題全球石化的基礎原料乙烯 丙烯這些都已經有一點失控但是你告訴我們天然氣的傳奇順利調度是沒有問題中油吸收了多少但是本席還是要請教"},{"start":335.44,"end":359.199,"text":"導致下油PE PVC PS等原料暴增40%甚至乙烯暴增97%到現在是有錢買不到料而且現在呢市長下油的廠商反映報價一缸 三期 四期都有那導致被迫配給的供料的時候呢那你們掌控"},{"start":360.06,"end":379.786,"text":"真實的量能產能到底是怎麼樣因為現在下單只來了一半的這個塑料這是在最基層的一個反應喔所以台塑化台塑也宣布不可抗力那經濟部你告訴我們你掌控的實際的這個庫存嗎它的產能跟我們供應的缺口的情況到底是怎麼樣企業界可以拿到原料嗎請說說明"},{"start":389.169,"end":416.347,"text":"其實那個中油今天他已經啟動了四清的這個列結廠的一個運作會增加1.9萬噸的這個乙烯的一個供應量那到下個月他會再變成增加3萬噸所以這是供內需來用的話確實是已經是足夠的那昨天中油也已經找了台聚台化跟台塑大家來面商中油也願意把這個產能來分配給他們來做這個"},{"start":419.289,"end":439.038,"text":"昨天這個協商也就是我們中小企業目前你們有一個本席跟你討論一下中小企業他拿不到料你們經濟部有一個說媒合的作用但是媒合下去所有的中小企業告訴我們也就是說他還是供應原廠商"},{"start":439.978,"end":460.264,"text":"所以他一樣拿不到料這怎麼辦表示你們的媒合的當中的效能是產生不出來的我們要看末端中小企業可以拿到這個為重點對不對是那現在你的媒合角度要怎麼樣去調整哪些廠商拿不到料可以來跟我所以你的媒合的角度"},{"start":461.344,"end":475.845,"text":"你的方式必須要好好去檢討因為我們共同的目標就是要讓中小企業他可以拿到料嘛你整個經濟鏈才可以啟動嘛是不是那你將你的這個媒合的方式怎麼樣調整順便再給本席謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:48:07.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:48:07.295000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:48:07.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:48:08.476000+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔發言，邀請國發會。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T09:48:08.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:48:09.616000+08:00","text":"請國發會葉主委。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-01T09:48:09.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:48:14.378000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:48:14.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:48:15.398000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:48:16.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:49:00.674000+08:00","text":"鑑於全球能源結構快速的調整，歐盟在3月份公開承認降低核能占比是一個戰略的錯誤，而且他們加大對核能的投資，日本在2月份也重啟核電，東南亞更有很多國家因為AI資料中心用電需求暴增以及能源安全的考量而加速核能發展，由此可以看出國際能源趨勢已經很明確的朝向核能，核電廠被視為兼具穩定供電、低碳轉型及國家安全的重要基礎設施。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:49:02.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:49:32.655000+08:00","text":"本席也一再跟你討論，在AI產業快速擴張以及再生能源被動性提高之下，供電系統的韌性面臨很大的挑戰，如果我們的能源政策沒有辦法就穩定基載電力提出明確的方向，投資者的信心及長期的競爭力恐怕會受影響。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:49:32.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:49:50.004000+08:00","text":"所以本席首先要請教面對全球核能復興及AI用電需求爆發，我們現行的能源政策是不是足以支撐未來高耗能的產業發展？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:49:50.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:49:56.767000+08:00","text":"還是將這些供電的風險轉嫁到競爭力的流失？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:49:57.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:49:58.128000+08:00","text":"請主委說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-01T09:49:59.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:50:38.265000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，在這邊跟委員報告，目前臺灣還沒有缺電的狀況，當然，未來假如興建一些資料中心或AI更蓬勃發展的話，對用電的需求其實會增加沒有錯，就我這邊的資料來看，經濟部其實有預估未來10年用電的情況，每一年大概會增加1GW，就整個供電來講，經濟部預估我們國內供電會有1.2GW，所以未來10年看起來供需應該是還不會有很大的問題。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-01T09:50:38.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:51:09.354000+08:00","text":"但是我們很難去預估在10年後有沒有更大量的用電狀況，所以現階段經濟部有再重新評估核三或核二這個部分，在符合兩個必要跟三個原則的條件之下，去看看萬一有需要的話，核能是不是能夠即時地滿足這樣的供電需求。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:51:09.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:51:42.350000+08:00","text":"你身為國發會主委，你以10年來計算，每一天世界的變化非常大，本席也提出世界各國目前的方向是什麼，如果照主委剛剛所說的，第一個，我們現在沒有這樣的預估；第二個，你說經濟部或許在這10年會有什麼樣的方向，但是本席還是憂心，因為這樣子的回答跟世界的進度、產業的需求似乎還有很大的落差。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:51:45.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:51:56.661000+08:00","text":"主委剛剛有特別說到經濟部，次長，既然你上來了，就請你回答，你們對產業的用電需求、AI的高基載量能有預做怎麼樣的準備？","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:51:56.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:52:26.740000+08:00","text":"好，跟委員報告，其實剛剛主委有提到，我們每一年都有做未來10年電力供需的調查，根據我們的推估，以AI的需求再加上半導體的需要，我們2030年大概會增加5G以上的電力需求，但是台電有一個增加燃氣機組的裝置容量的建置，我們到2034年會淨增加12.2GW的電力，所以不會有電力缺乏的問題。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:52:31.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:52:35.306000+08:00","text":"次長，本席要請教的就是照預估10年的需求，你們要怎麼做？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:52:35.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:52:45.313000+08:00","text":"但是現在加入的AI用電需求爆發，全世界都以核能的復興為走向，你們有將這個評估納在裡面嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:52:49.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:52:50.550000+08:00","text":"這兩項因子有沒有納在裡面？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:52:50.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:52:51.930000+08:00","text":"目前是沒有納進來。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:52:51.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:53:00.954000+08:00","text":"好，我聽到你的回答，產業就是在憂心，因為最重要的兩個因素你們並沒有納入，我希望你好好的去思考，好不好？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:53:00.954000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:53:01.954000+08:00","text":"當然我們每年都會做電力供需的調查、分析。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:53:01.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:53:03.355000+08:00","text":"這個一定要好好去思考，今天難怪產業會緊張，因為這個重點你們沒有納入，那你只有告訴我們這樣，難怪產業會緊張嘛！","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:53:03.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:53:04.415000+08:00","text":"好好的去思考，你必須要聽到產業的心聲。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:53:04.415000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:53:15.639000+08:00","text":"我們這樣估起來是2032年不會缺電。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:53:15.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:54:06.881000+08:00","text":"好，接下來本席要請教，現在因為中東戰爭的這些問題，全球石化的基礎原料乙烯、丙烯等都已經有一點失控，雖然你告訴我們天然氣的船期順利調度沒有問題、中油吸收了多少，但是本席還是要請教，導致下游PE、PVC、PS等原料暴漲40%，乙烯甚至暴漲97%，現在是有錢也買不到料，而且現在下游的廠商反映報價一天三市、四市都有，導致被迫配給供料，那你們掌控真實的量能、產能到底是怎麼樣？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:54:06.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:54:21.366000+08:00","text":"因為現在下單以後只來了一半的塑料，這是最基層的反映，所以台塑化、台塑也宣布這是不可抗力，請經濟部告訴我們，你掌控了實際的庫存嗎？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:54:21.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:54:22.186000+08:00","text":"它的產能跟供應缺口的情況到底是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:54:22.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:54:22.766000+08:00","text":"企業界可以拿到原料嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:54:32.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:54:59.327000+08:00","text":"好，跟委員報告，其實中油今天已經啟動了四輕裂解廠的運作，會增加乙烯1.9萬噸的供應量，到下個月會變成增加3萬噸，所以提供內需來用的話，確實已經是足夠的，昨天中油也找了台聚、台化跟台塑一起來面商，中油也願意把這個產能分配給他們來做石化產品。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:02.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:55:25.859000+08:00","text":"昨天有這個協商，本席要跟你討論一下，中小企業拿不到料，你們經濟部有一個媒合的作用，但是媒合下去，所有的中小企業告訴我們，他們還是供應原廠商，所以他們一樣拿不到料，這要怎麼辦？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:25.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:55:35.582000+08:00","text":"表示你們媒合產生不出效能，我們要看末端，讓中小企業可以拿到才是重點，對不對？是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:36.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:55:38.622000+08:00","text":"那現在你對媒合的角度要怎麼樣去調整？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:39.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:55:41.323000+08:00","text":"委員，如果有廠商拿不到料，可以來跟我說，我會來處理。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:41.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:55:55.099000+08:00","text":"所以你媒合的角度、你的方式必須要好好去檢討，因為我們共同的目標就是要讓中小企業可以拿到料，這樣整個經濟鏈才可以啟動，是不是？是。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:55.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-01T09:55:58.845000+08:00","text":"那你將媒合的方式、怎麼樣調整的書面資料送給本席，謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-04-01T09:55:59.345000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:56:00.773571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T09:56:01.073571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:56:04.502143+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員，官員請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-01T09:56:04.802143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-01T09:56:07.373571+08:00","text":"下一位請謝衣鳯委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}