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我想院長一定認同這樣的狀態"},{"start":48.22,"end":74.274,"text":"是 黨務的活動我雖然不公開的批評但是任何的接觸只要接受認為對法律規範好然後兩岸的和平力比兩岸對抗衝突來得好的時候那我們就希望就是卓院長這邊按照一個我們國家行政院長的高度的時候對於在野黨跟兩岸的交流的時候都能夠採取更開放更正面的方式去看待"},{"start":75.134,"end":94.276,"text":"包括陸委會也一再的依照法律的規定這沒問題那我想說兩岸的交流我覺得很重要那我們其實在努力不管執政或在野我們在努力都是希望說我們的社會能夠更好就是人民能夠得到更好更安生利命的一個環境這應該沒有問題啦 院長"},{"start":96.539,"end":113.701,"text":"對 安身立命就是不能去是 理解所以我今天我要特別講幾個跟民生問題有關的東西我希望院長能夠真正去把它給落實下來因為之前有提到說我們8年13萬戶設宅的問題大概會跳票那這沒有問題"},{"start":114.522,"end":140.276,"text":"量減少這件事情我們可以理解那我今天要特別提到的是社宅品質的一個問題社宅品質的一個問題那2021年的時候我記得我們的內政部次長當時的次長花敬群現在的住宅中心的董事長他就直接提到說我們製厄所的社宅都必須要符合綠建築智慧建築還有抗震三大標章這沒有問題嘛對不對院長是"},{"start":142.797,"end":162.217,"text":"這部分還是繼續往下堅持下去對不對沒有因為就是花次長現在不在了改朝換代之後就有所改變對不對繼續嘛對社宅的定義怎麼去興建一個社宅以及如何取得社宅我們在方式上會有精進但原則性的問題都是這些原則都還是繼續進行嗎"},{"start":164.159,"end":191.55,"text":"那我這邊我要特別提到的一個部分因為其實我在1月19號曾經質詢過一件事情就是說因為我們看到很多的陳情就是說在高雄很多地方包括仁武這個部分特定的狀態他們在新建社宅的時候呢當時送省的建材跟實際現場運用的建材是不一樣的當時我要求內政部這一邊"},{"start":192.37,"end":213.87,"text":"就是一周里面给我们一个答复他有答复没有问题一周之后没有答复我们继续追的时候呢那住住东西说他们给了然后他们觉得说卡在国土署卡在内政部我们跟国土署这边要求他们说卡在住住东西互相推49天之后的时候我在3月16号"},{"start":215.7,"end":233.014,"text":"再一次質詢這件事情的時候四天之後給了我答案我們當時其實很清楚的要比方說就是人武社宅的時候他們當時統包的需求書還有他們建材的清冊結果3月20號之後給了之後呢他確實承認了"},{"start":238.698,"end":255.023,"text":"我們當時送審資料當中的時候是用台製的狀態而且要符合環保標章還有劣建材的一個標準可是實際上現在在使用的是越南帶工廠的磁磚"},{"start":256.55,"end":282.221,"text":"院長你知道這個事情嗎我是不是可以來回應一下我想那個鄭委員在追蹤這個部分追蹤的非常的詳細確實沒有錯我們在三月的時候提供給委員辦公室但是我們還是一樣去查了所有的國家住都中心的統包工程的契約規定到目前為止您所指涉的鋪綠建材或者是環保標章還是按照原來的標準目前是沒有違規的"},{"start":283.061,"end":307.128,"text":"那如果委員 部長你如果覺得有按照標準的時候你就很清楚把當時送省的資料提供給本席辦公室這邊來做對照因為我看到你們送送給本席的資料的時候我3月22號給本席的資料當中的時候你很清楚的提到我們送省的廠牌是國產的廠牌而且基本上都要符合CNS9737的一個標準對 可是呢 現場"},{"start":310.649,"end":334.364,"text":"提供在運用的越南代工廠的廠商你們並沒有符合CNS9737的一個環保標章你們提出來狀態是說用UL美國UL的一個認證可是我要特別講到UL認證的時候呢它基本上是針對低溢出"},{"start":335.965,"end":357.363,"text":"對空氣污染第一出這樣子的一個揮發性有機化合物的一個這樣的第一出的一個標準並不是按照我們國家所訂定出來的一個環保標章所以表示說我們當時送繩是一套在實際進場當中是一套然後你們現在又同時又用了一個混淆"},{"start":358.72,"end":368.391,"text":"置換概念的一個方式覺得用醫委的標準就可以用來取代台灣的一個環保論證這完全是兩碼子事情院長你知道這個狀態嗎"},{"start":372.547,"end":398.945,"text":"報告委員我想您的觀念上面可能還在澄清一下所謂的綠建材或是環保標章只要它符合這樣的規格的話我們全部都認定而且呢住住中心它的統包工程契約規定的非常的清楚所有曾經進場的這麼多上百以上按照我們國家當中遙商鏈資源化建材環保標章標準的時候很清楚的提到我們的標章適用範圍"},{"start":400.646,"end":418.088,"text":"建材種類應該要包含國家標準CNS9737的一個相關的標準而且產品使用回收料應該是全部為國內消費使用營造製造或者是加工等產出的過程"},{"start":419.649,"end":438.637,"text":"參配重量有下列幾種不一樣的狀態重點它是回收料應全部為國內的情況而不是用越南代工廠你可以用來取代台灣的環保標章這是兩件不一樣的事情所以本席在這邊的時候要特別請院長就是"},{"start":440.317,"end":461.683,"text":"請敬述給本席一個很清楚的狀態我們當時送審的標準是什麼現在現場實際運用的標準是什麼可不可以這很簡單的一個對照標準可不可以請院長這邊承諾多久的時間給本席辦公室一個很清楚的資料因為執行這麼多年的社宅他一定有他一貫的一個作業規範"},{"start":463.143,"end":487.6,"text":"那是不是有新的標準出現或是我們沒有把那個元素涵蓋的話全經檢查把它放進去合格的標準沒有新的標準那我剛剛講的那三個原則是當時內政部所公開出來的三個原則如果說我們當時送審的標準是一套現在進場的標準又是一套我覺得裡面可能牽涉到一些人謀不章"},{"start":488.881,"end":506.956,"text":"這需要請院長這邊的時候能夠全面的針對再建的一個社宅的部分加以一個統籌的一個檢討跟一個監督可不可以報告委員 如果您認為有人模不章的話歡迎移送檢調來辦理我們都完全支持暫停到目前的數據進行當時人物社宅"},{"start":509.878,"end":513.199,"text":"報告委員按照契約上的規定我們應該給你的這個所有的資訊我們一定都會給你沒問題"},{"start":527.096,"end":556.556,"text":"你們之前在講這個部分的時候覺得說這些認證標準講到什麼各自的問題我覺得這明顯就是希望能夠安撫一些事情原本用國產的一個環保標章你們不願意提供用出一個UL一個認證完全不一樣的事情一個是產品的環保標章一個是溢出物的一個標準空氣的溢出物標準兩件不同的事情"},{"start":557.276,"end":584.616,"text":"院長我希望我這邊講得很清楚希望院長能夠對於社宅的品質好好的去把關好不好那這兩個送審的標準很清楚的給我們一套跟進場的建材的標準都一定會有牽涉請院長這邊去追究這件事情然後很清楚的給本席一套比照有沒有辦法好 我剛剛部長已經答覆這個標準是一致的那因為標準也是我們認可的"},{"start":585.776,"end":611.103,"text":"標準是一致的 可是你們提出來的狀態就不一樣你們給我的標準當中 提出來的狀態是京宮跟山陽的國產的一個認證的一個環保標章結果送進來的現在是越南代工廠的產品怎麼會一樣 國產的品質跟價格跟越南代工廠的怎麼會是一樣好不好 這個部分請院長去追究 全面去"},{"start":612.343,"end":638.664,"text":"對於目前在建的一個設宅的品質好好去監督好不好建築規範的部分再請這個內政部如果有應該更說明清楚更為好謝謝謝謝院長那麼接下來的部分我想請教一下我們地方行政機關的組織準則針對我們的一個行政人員的一個法定員額的編制是幾年前的一個標準院長知不知道"},{"start":640.507,"end":667.583,"text":"我簡單跟你提我們目前的標準是用87年的標準財政的收入狀態是用85年的標準已經30年了法定的標準30年了那30年來首先我們看到新竹這邊的時候它有很大的一個變化那麼輪口成長的非常的多所以我們這30年都沒有檢討過這件事情的時候呢讓整個新竹這邊的一個"},{"start":669.244,"end":686.712,"text":"公務人員他們要服務的人口數比例非常的高所以我在這邊想請教一下院長這邊什麼時候可以啟動檢討針對這樣子的一個法定員額的部分能夠更符合現在實際的狀態我日前在檢討的是我們的編制員額"},{"start":690.994,"end":719.81,"text":"跟每個到中央地方政府送出的預算原額中間還是有差略有落差的編制原額想辦法這個落差為什麼會產生這個我都理解所以我現在講說的那個法定的編制原額30年沒有改可是因為整個社會變化很大尤其是科學園區附近的時候它不只是人口成長了將近三成以上新竹縣成長更多然後還有很多流動性的人口"},{"start":720.31,"end":747.088,"text":"就是戶籍不在這邊 可是在這邊工作所以都會讓當地的公務人員產生非常大的一個負擔所以本席希望行政院這邊能夠提出一個新的修正版本在還沒有提出修正版本之前的時候針對新竹市這邊因為我們新竹市這邊的法定上限是1092人公務人員那目前只遵用核准禁用的人是1067人"},{"start":749.449,"end":766.294,"text":"是1067人所以本席這邊希望行政院這邊是不是能夠請行政總署這邊來補足新竹市這邊可禁用的一個公務人員的人數直接先提高到法定上限1092人有沒有辦法"},{"start":768.389,"end":790.183,"text":"這個我剛剛說的法定的編制原額預算原額跟實際上每年禁用的原額這三個落差是明顯的新竹市的預算原額是有能力去負擔的現在是因為我們卡到了一個准許禁用的原額只有到1067有25個人的差距所以本席希望行政院這邊能夠請行政總處這邊的時候人事總處這邊的時候先讓新竹市的"},{"start":795.006,"end":818.737,"text":"允許禁用的人額的緣額提高到法定上限1092人人事總數會從人口數量結構以及產業發展乃至於地方財政各方面來做衡量是 所以這個部分本席希望在新竹這個部分至少這25個能夠先在法定緣額的一個容許的範圍之內先把它提高到這個部分"},{"start":819.617,"end":846.028,"text":"那麼接下來的部分呢我在想說最近那個跟整個我們行政、立法、司法三權當中有很多的一個衝突啦那最近的一個衝突就包括了就是我們就是中選會的人事的一個任命權的一個問題那我們看到了就是行政院送進的"},{"start":847.188,"end":865.732,"text":"那個人選進來的時候那麼我們立法院也按照憲政的一個體制讓他通過了通過之後現在行政院這邊似乎不打算要馬上去任命他那不打算任命他的時候我們現在中選會沒有辦法去"},{"start":866.838,"end":879.477,"text":"順利開會那我想請教當我們立法院已經通過了一個憲政機制通過的中選會的一個人選的時候行政院什麼時候可以把這個"},{"start":881.195,"end":899.955,"text":"任命權直接把他給拍立下去委員應該了解原因吧完全了解貴黨黨團要求你們不能投同意票民進黨黨團是全數要求投同意票這個部分 院長我覺得這個憲政體制目前這邊就是欺騙"},{"start":902.478,"end":931.016,"text":"我覺得行政院不能夠按照你的喜歡或不喜歡憲政體制有憲政體制的運作當立法院這個人事統計通過的時候我希望行政院就能夠遵守就很像針對李徵秀委員的部分我們立法院院長他也很清楚的才是在司法判決還沒有確定之前他該有的權利就應該要給這表示院長非常尊重司法權"},{"start":956.412,"end":956.432,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:01.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:33:04.300000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請卓榮泰院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:04.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:33:16.469000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:16.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:33:16.769000+08:00","text":"鄭委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:17.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:33:17.890000+08:00","text":"卓院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:19.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:33:36.378000+08:00","text":"今天在野黨國民黨主席鄭麗文即將赴大陸交流，兩岸的關係其實很複雜，可是我相信對話一定會比對抗好，兩岸和平一定會比兩岸衝突來得好，我想院長一定認同這樣的狀態，OK嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:38.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:33:42.102000+08:00","text":"黨務活動我雖然不公開批評，但是任何的接觸，只要介於我們的法令規範裡面都可以。理解。","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:33:44.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:04.254000+08:00","text":"院長，如果你認為我們對話比對抗好，兩岸和平比兩岸衝突來得好的話，我們希望卓院長要按照一個國家行政院院長的高度，對於在野黨的兩岸交流都能夠採取更開放、更正面的方式去看待。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:05.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:07.256000+08:00","text":"包括陸委會也一再地依照法律規定，如兩岸人民關係條例……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:07.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:08.858000+08:00","text":"這沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:08.858000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:11.782000+08:00","text":"法律規定也三申五令提醒重要的事項。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:11.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:24.276000+08:00","text":"我覺得兩岸交流很重要，我們其實也在努力，不管執政或在野，我們都在努力希望讓我們的社會能夠更好，讓人民能夠得到更好、更安身立命的環境，這應該沒有問題，院長？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:26.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:28.061000+08:00","text":"對，安身立命就是不能去到中國說我們要全國躺平，這個很危險。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:28.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:34:47.404000+08:00","text":"理解，所以今天我要特別講跟民生問題有關的事情，我希望院長能夠真正去把它落實，因為之前有提到8年13萬戶社宅大概會跳票，這沒有問題，量減少這件事情我們可以理解。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:34:48.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:09.635000+08:00","text":"我今天要特別提到的是社宅品質的問題，在2021年的時候，當時的內政部次長花敬群、現在住都中心的董事長，他就直接提到我們之後所有的社宅都必須要符合綠建築、智慧建築還有抗震三大標章，這沒有問題嘛！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:10.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:10.256000+08:00","text":"院長，對不對？是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:12.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:22.727000+08:00","text":"這個部分還是繼續往下堅持下去，沒有因為花次長現在不在了，改朝換代之後就有所改變，對不對？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:22.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:22.727000+08:00","text":"繼續嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:22.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:27.332000+08:00","text":"對於社宅的定義，怎麼去興建一個社宅以及如何取得社宅……理解。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:27.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:31.376000+08:00","text":"我們在方式上會有精進，但原則性的問題都是在規範中。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:31.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:35:32.197000+08:00","text":"這些原則都還是繼續進行嘛。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:35:34.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:36:02.831000+08:00","text":"這邊我要特別提到一個部分，其實我在1月19號就曾經質詢過一件事情，因為我們碰到很多的陳情，在高雄很多地方，包括仁武部分有特定的狀態，他們在興建社宅的時候，當時送審的建材跟實際現場運用的建材是不一樣的，當時我要求內政部一週內給我們一個答復，他也答復沒有問題。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:36:03.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:36:19.926000+08:00","text":"在一週之後沒有答復，我們繼續追的時候，住都中心說他們給了，他們覺得卡在國土署、卡在內政部；當我們跟國土署要求時，他們說卡在住都中心，互相推。","quality":0.532},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:36:20.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:05.023000+08:00","text":"在49天之後，我在3月16號再一次質詢這件事情的時候，4天之後給了我答案，我們很清楚的要仁武社宅當時統包的需求書及建材清冊，結果3月20號給了之後，他確實承認當時送審資料是用臺製的狀態，而且要符合環保標章及綠建材標準，可是實際上現在在使用的是越南代工廠的磁磚。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:06.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:09.831000+08:00","text":"院長，你知道這個事情嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:09.831000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:10.831000+08:00","text":"請部長來做說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:09.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:11.452000+08:00","text":"我是不是可以來回應一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:12.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:33.861000+08:00","text":"我想鄭委員在追蹤這個部分，追蹤得非常地詳細，確實沒有錯，我們在3月的時候提供給委員辦公室，但是我們還是一樣去查了所有國家住都中心的統包工程契約規定，到目前為止，您所指涉的報綠建材或者是環保標章，還是按照原來的標準，目前是沒有問題的，如果委員覺得有任何……好！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:33.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:46.865000+08:00","text":"部長，如果你覺得有按照標準，你就很清楚的把當時送審的資料提供給本席辦公室來做對照，因為我看到你們送給本席的資料……","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:46.865000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:48.065000+08:00","text":"3月20日是有供給委員辦公室參考。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:48.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:56.188000+08:00","text":"在3月20號給本席的資料當中，你很清楚地提到我們送審的廠牌是國產廠牌，而且基本上都要符合CNS 9737的標準。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:56.188000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:37:57.188000+08:00","text":"對，它也是符合環保標章的。","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:37:56.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:38:57.370000+08:00","text":"對，可是現場提供在運用的越南代工廠廠商，你們並沒有符合CNS 9737的環保標章，你們提出來的狀態是用美國UL認證，可是我要特別講到UL認證，基本上是揮發性有機化合物對空氣污染低逸出的標準，並不是按照我們國家所訂定出來的環保標章，表示我們當時送審是一套、實際進場是一套，你們現在同時又用混淆、置換概念的方式，覺得用UL標準就可以取代臺灣的環保認證，這完全是兩碼子事情。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:38:57.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:38:58.391000+08:00","text":"院長，你知道這個狀態嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:38:58.391000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:39:02.547000+08:00","text":"請部長說明，因為這個在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:39:02.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:39:19.599000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想您的觀念上面可能還要再澄清一下，所謂的綠建材或是環保標章，只要它符合這樣的規格，我們全部都認定，而且住都中心的統包工程契約規定得非常清楚，所有曾經進場的這麼多間、上百以上的社會住宅，都是按照這樣的工程契約規定來進行的。","quality":0.748},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:39:19.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:40:04.175000+08:00","text":"部長，按照我們國家的「窯燒類資源化建材」環保標章標準很清楚地提到，我們的標章適用範圍、建材種類應該要包含國家標準CNS 9737的相關標準，而且產品使用回收料應該是全部為國內消費、使用、營造、製造或者加工等過程產出，摻配重量有下列幾種不一樣的狀態，重點它是「回收料應全部為國內……」的情況，而不是用越南代工廠取代臺灣的環保標章，這是兩件不一樣的事情。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:40:04.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:40:19.780000+08:00","text":"所以要特別請院長儘速給本席很清楚的資料，包括當時送審的標準是什麼、現在現場實際運用的標準是什麼，可不可以？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:40:20.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:40:28.282000+08:00","text":"這是很簡單的一個對照標準，請院長承諾多久時間可以給本席辦公室一份很清楚的資料？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:40:28.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:40:40.028000+08:00","text":"好，執行這麼多年的社宅一定有一貫的作業規範，是不是有新的標準出現或是我們沒有辦法全數涵蓋的話，我們會重新檢討把它放進合格標準內。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:40:40.028000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:40:41.769000+08:00","text":"如果有新的標準，就請給本席一個很清楚的資料。","quality":0.15},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:40:41.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:09.029000+08:00","text":"因為我們目前看到的情況是沒有新的標準，我剛剛講的那三個原則是當時內政部所公開的，如果當時送審的標準是一套，現在進場的標準又是一套，我覺得裡面可能牽涉到一些人謀不臧，請院長能夠全面針對在建社宅，加以統籌的檢討及監督，可不可以？好。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:10.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:16.135000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果您認為有人謀不臧的話，歡迎移送檢調辦理，我們都完全支持，但是到目前為止，綠建材或環保標章的標準是新的。","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:16.135000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:18.006500+08:00","text":"好，就請把你們當時仁武社宅送審的資料、標準，還有現在進場的建材標準，給本席一套完整的資料，有沒有辦法？","quality":0.089},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:18.006500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:19.878000+08:00","text":"部長有沒有辦法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:19.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:23.199000+08:00","text":"報告委員，按照契約規定，應該給你的所有資訊，我們一定都會給你，沒問題！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:37.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:40.178000+08:00","text":"你們之前在講這個部分的時候……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:40.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:41.178000+08:00","text":"因為這是國家住都中心的工程契約規定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:41.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:49.784000+08:00","text":"這些認證標準講到個資的問題，我覺得這明顯就是希望能夠暗藏一些事情，「烏龍踅桌」……沒有。","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:49.784000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:41:50.784000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果您認為有人謀不臧，歡迎您移送檢調辦理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:41:50.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:03.434000+08:00","text":"原本用國產的環保標章，你們不願意提供，用UL認證，完全不一樣的事情，一個是產品的環保標章，一個是溢出物的標準……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:03.434000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:04.434000+08:00","text":"UL認證與CNS認證本來就不一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:03.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:06.536000+08:00","text":"空氣的溢出物標準，是兩件不同的事情。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:07.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:13.561000+08:00","text":"院長，我講得很清楚，希望院長對於社宅品質能夠好好把關，好不好？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:14.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:29.972000+08:00","text":"這兩個送審標準跟進場的建材標準都一定會有簽收，請院長追究這件事情，然後很清楚地給本席一套比照的資料，有沒有辦法？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:30.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:34.595000+08:00","text":"好，委員，剛剛部長已經答復了，標準是一致的，UL標準也是我們認可的，如果委員需要更詳細的說明，再請內政部準備。","quality":0.479},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:35.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:52.961000+08:00","text":"標準是一致的，可是你們提出來的就是不一樣，你們給我的標準當中所提出來的是精工跟三洋的國產認證環保標章，結果現在送進來的是越南代工廠的產品，怎麼會一樣？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:52.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:42:57.402000+08:00","text":"國產的品質及價格與越南代工廠的怎麼會一樣？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:42:58.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:06.066000+08:00","text":"這個部分請院長去追究，全面對於目前在建社宅的品質，好好地去監督，好不好？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:06.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:10.450000+08:00","text":"建築規範的部分，如果應該有要更加說明清楚的部分，再請內政部跟委員說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:10.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:12.611000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:12.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:28.644000+08:00","text":"接下來我想請教一下地方行政機關組織準則，針對行政人員法定員額編制是幾年前的標準，院長知不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:30.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:39.392000+08:00","text":"我簡單跟你提，目前的標準是用87年的標準，財政收入是用85年的標準，已經30年了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:39.392000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:42.774000+08:00","text":"你是說法定編制員額的標準，是不是？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:42.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:43:43.515000+08:00","text":"對，法定員額標準30年了。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:43:44.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:44:15.852000+08:00","text":"30年來，以新竹來說，我們看到有很大的變化，人口成長非常多，所以我們這30年都沒有檢討過這件事情，讓整個新竹的公務人員他們要服務的人口數比例非常高，所以請教一下院長，什麼時候可以啟動檢討，針對法定員額的部分，能夠更符合現在實際的狀態？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:44:15.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:44:27.258000+08:00","text":"我們日前在檢討的是我們的編制員額，包括中央、地方政府送出的預算員額，中間還是有落差。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:44:28.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:44:30.119000+08:00","text":"我們想這個落差怎麼會產生，是要重新再……","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:44:31.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:44:31.540000+08:00","text":"理解，這個我都理解。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:44:32.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:45:36.274000+08:00","text":"所以我現在講法定編制員額30年沒有改，可是因為整個社會變化很大，尤其是科學園區附近不只是人口成長了將近三成以上，新竹縣成長更多，還有很多流動性人口，就是戶籍不在這邊，可是在這邊工作，讓當地的公務人員產生非常大的負擔，所以本席希望行政院這邊能夠提出一個新的修正版本，在還沒有提出修正版本之前，針對新竹市的部分，因為我們新竹市這邊的公務人員法定上限是1,092人，目前核准進用的是1,067人，本席希望行政院這邊是不是能夠請人事行政總處來補足新竹市可進用的公務人員人數，提高到法定上限1,092人，有沒有辦法？","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:45:38.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:45:45.294000+08:00","text":"如我剛剛說的，法定的編制員額、預算員額跟實際上每年進用的員額，這三個落差是……","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:45:46.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:46:10.088000+08:00","text":"是，新竹市的預算員額是有能力去負擔的，現在是因為我們卡在准許進用的員額只有到1,067人，有25個人的差距，所以本席希望行政院這邊能夠請人事行政總處，先讓新竹市的准許進用員額提高到法定上限1,092人，多25人，有沒有辦法？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:46:10.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:46:18.292000+08:00","text":"人事總處會從人口數量、結構以及產業發展，乃至於地方財政各方面來做衡量。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:46:18.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:46:28.717000+08:00","text":"是，本席希望在新竹市的部分，至少能夠先在法定員額的容許範圍之內，先提高25人的這個部分。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:46:29.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:17.760000+08:00","text":"接下來，最近行政、立法、司法三權有很多衝突，最近一個衝突就包括中選會人事任命權的問題，行政院送進來人選，我們立法院也按照憲政體制通過了，通過之後，現在行政院這邊似乎不打算要馬上去任命他，不打算任命他的話，中選會沒有辦法順利開會。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:17.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:33.237000+08:00","text":"我想請教，當我們立法院已經依照憲政機制通過中選會的人選，行政院什麼時候可以行使任命權來拍定人選？","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:34.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:36.140000+08:00","text":"委員應該了解原因吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:36.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:39.404000+08:00","text":"完全了解……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:40.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:45.090000+08:00","text":"投票當時，貴黨黨團要求你們不能投同意票，民進黨黨團是全數要求投同意票，為什麼？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:45.090000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:46.090000+08:00","text":"這是欺騙……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:45.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:49.215000+08:00","text":"這個部分，院長，我覺得憲政體制目前有幾個狀態……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:49.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:49.955000+08:00","text":"這是欺騙，委員，這是欺騙！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:52.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:47:57.261000+08:00","text":"我覺得行政院不能夠按照你的喜歡或不喜歡……不是……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:47:57.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:02.905000+08:00","text":"憲政體制有憲政體制的運作，當立法院通過人事同意權的時候……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:02.905000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:03.905000+08:00","text":"立法院要不要講程序？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:03.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:05.306000+08:00","text":"我希望行政院就能夠遵守……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:05.306000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:06.306000+08:00","text":"立法院要不要講信用？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:05.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:21.016000+08:00","text":"就像針對李貞秀委員的部分，我們立法院院長很清楚地裁示，在司法判決還沒有確定之前，該有的權力就應該要給，這表示院長非常尊重司法權，那麼我們希望行政院長也能夠尊重司法權、尊重立法權……","quality":0.659},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:21.516000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:28.944571+08:00","text":"委員，你剛剛在這裡的質詢，我都願意好好地來處理，這就是信用……","quality":0.038},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:29.244571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:35.244571+08:00","text":"不要變成一個行政獨權、獨裁、行政獨大、霸凌的狀態……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:35.544571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:40.973143+08:00","text":"但立法院自己不適用的時候，憑什麼要求資格？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:41.273143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:42.416000+08:00","text":"沒有辦法！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:42.716000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:52.144571+08:00","text":"不要變成行政權霸凌立法權跟霸凌司法權的情況，希望院長能夠好好地去思考。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:52.444571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:48:58.730286+08:00","text":"你們完全放任自己的信用破產，這是非常可悲的事情！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-07T09:48:59.030286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:49:03.316000+08:00","text":"立法院信用破產是非常可悲的事情！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-07T09:49:03.616000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:49:07.616000+08:00","text":"請院長一定要尊重憲政體制，謝謝。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-07T09:49:07.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:49:14.487429+08:00","text":"謝謝鄭正鈐委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-07T09:49:14.787429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:49:19.644571+08:00","text":"接下來委員質詢之後，我們將會休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-07T09:49:19.944571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:49:21.944571+08:00","text":"卓院長請喝口水。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-07T09:49:22.244571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-07T09:49:25.958857+08:00","text":"接下來我們請羅智強委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}