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10:54:23","會議時間":"2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部就「穩定供給與減塑並進：因應國際原物料波動之原物料穩定供應及我國減塑治理進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n一、審查「廢棄物清理法條文修正草案」9案：\n（一）委員馬文君等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員顏寬恒等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員林淑芬等22人擬具「廢棄物清理法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員張宏陸等17人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員許智傑等29人擬具「廢棄物清理法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員劉建國等19人擬具「廢棄物清理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「廢棄物清理法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「資源回收再利用法修正草案」2案：\n（一）委員許智傑等28人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n（二）委員盧縣一等16人擬具「資源回收再利用法修正草案」案。\n【專題報告及法律案綜合詢答，法律案僅詢答】\n【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":0.03096875,"end":0.8072187500000001,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":6.83159375,"end":9.51471875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":9.51471875,"end":10.493468750000002,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":10.45971875,"end":12.113468750000003,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":13.058468750000003,"end":14.459093750000001,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":13.58159375,"end":14.57721875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.57721875,"end":14.594093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":15.657218750000002,"end":17.14221875,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.63159375,"end":20.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":19.15034375,"end":23.01471875,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.672843750000002,"end":26.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":24.938468750000002,"end":25.86659375,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":26.406593750000003,"end":28.245968750000003,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.735343750000002,"end":29.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":29.05596875,"end":29.562218750000003,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.01784375,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":30.43971875,"end":30.456593750000003,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":31.11471875,"end":31.60409375,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":31.97534375,"end":32.90346875,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.46471875,"end":32.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":32.51534375,"end":32.56596875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.56596875,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":32.63346875,"end":32.869718750000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":32.869718750000004,"end":32.93721875,"speaker_score":0.714},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.90346875,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":32.93721875,"end":34.236593750000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":32.970968750000004,"end":34.47284375,"speaker_score":0.714},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":34.72596875,"end":35.822843750000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":35.21534375,"end":35.282843750000005,"speaker_score":0.714},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪司長淑幸","start":35.282843750000005,"end":35.299718750000004,"speaker_score":0.792},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":35.299718750000004,"end":35.41784375,"speaker_score":0.714},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":36.565343750000004,"end":37.03784375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":38.354093750000004,"end":41.391593750000006,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":42.28596875,"end":43.38284375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":44.024093750000006,"end":47.534093750000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":48.32721875,"end":51.48284375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":52.09034375,"end":53.35596875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":53.87909375,"end":55.532843750000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":56.055968750000005,"end":58.165343750000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":58.705343750000004,"end":61.77659375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":62.35034375,"end":66.94034375000001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speak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素仁要請那個嗎對啊台電"},{"start":30.063,"end":34.924,"text":"剛剛我們廖偉強問的問題,我想他部長知道,他不太知道我補充一下,去年丹納斯颱風來,我們嘉義"},{"start":52.145,"end":61.618,"text":"台南、高雄那個光電的暗場受傷的有33個暗場那這些暗場上面那些光電板壞掉的"},{"start":62.406,"end":84.384,"text":"都沒到10年,都幾年了像我們去看那個最大的嘉義志鴻池那個64公頃,很蒸熟的到現在也沒辦法處理那弄上來這些你又不給他補那鄧副部長講的我們光電業者已經進入寒冬了現在要拖起來了所以"},{"start":85.365,"end":114.485,"text":"就坐在那裏,不幫忙也不行所以想這個案子來保護人家,讓他活著不過人家要不要再貸?人家會再貸給他嗎?二次貸款我還不清楚,不過那個還沒有動希望他可以起來啦不然的話,他也是死在那裏所以這個錯誤的能源政策我們屋頂的太陽能板,我們是絕對支持啦全世界都支持,但是成效不漲"},{"start":115.509,"end":130.863,"text":"那這些在農地的,在餘溫啊,像我們屏東搞了萬七八糟,這些真的是撒騙集團那現在已經搞成這樣了,那已經錯了,那多少對能源也有點幫忙所以現在是一陣風風颱颱來,但是我問銀行的人,銀行說他不跟台灣第二次,因為怕風風颱颱來,又燒一次,暗示又撤了現在要找什麼特質,要找模型要做,鋼管要做"},{"start":141.272,"end":159.647,"text":"所以這是問題,爭取也是所在那你能源署跟經濟部搞這個方案出來是要幫忙他們度過然後政府又不能拿錢直接有沒有拿錢直接補給他們,沒有吧沒有沒有啦齁你如果有你就我們死了,我告訴你一追下去你真的會出事啦好"},{"start":162.369,"end":181.84,"text":"我要問台電我在麥寮的朋友他說你們他們那個燃煤的廠本來要廢掉改成天然氣他現在經濟不清他不要動因為有可能馬上要頂上來燃煤我第一個問題是麥寮的燃煤有沒有現在有沒有在發電報告委員其實麥寮的燃煤目前是沒有發電的"},{"start":190.458,"end":216.369,"text":"那沒有發電怎麼我們今天早上抓到的今天早上8點抓到的PM2.5耐療是一直往上飆了目前耐療的三部機組其中二號機他已經拆掉了那一號機跟三號機都是停機當中所以沒有發電的對那他們本來是要把這個拆掉要改成天然氣是不是這樣不是你們現在叫他說不要動"},{"start":217.549,"end":230.676,"text":"旁邊在蓋 我說明一下他目前那個二號機拆掉跟他會再利用旁邊的空地他目前是在進行他一個燃氣機組的一個建置當中所以這個是持續在進行的所以會新建兩部燃氣機組現在麥寮在發電是客廳發電現在都停了 麥寮他沒有發電啊怎麼變2.5我們也是很認真在抓這個是環境部的monitor"},{"start":244.077,"end":265.063,"text":"空污不一定是發電廠的一個關係啊 對但是它實際上它賣的電廠是沒有在發電的 目前是沒有那他們 你們現在請他準備好 隨時要Stand by要上來因為是怕 怕那個 河木寺海峽那邊的東西進不來 是不是這樣"},{"start":266.306,"end":274.229,"text":"這個說明一下其實因為中東他整個情勢一個緊張所以各國他其實都已經在調整他的一個比如說他一個燃煤基礎的一個發電包括他可能開始啟動或者是說他有調整他一個發電的一個上限那其實以我們來講其實我們也是針對要針對這個天然氣的一個部分做一個彈性的一個能源的一個韌性所以這個是一個有備無患的一個做法所以經濟部長公"},{"start":293.655,"end":314.386,"text":"我們今年燃煤的用量一定比去年少講這個話 話中有話聽懂的人聽懂 聽不懂就所以如果我們目前對麥寮電廠我們是採用短期調度的方式來因應而且我們會秉持在今年的用煤量的水準不過超過去年的水準"},{"start":315.046,"end":321.47,"text":"所以水族準備要燃眉,因為其實各國都在調整我是覺得台電或經濟部要誠實的跟百姓講譬如說現在你天然氣,台電啊你們吸收了多少天然氣,有260億啦中油本來95、5000汽油,現在應該是如果"},{"start":339.642,"end":365.513,"text":"不吸收的話可能現在要四十幾塊了,照實講啊,讓百姓有感受啊所以不要都報喜不報憂,然後進講一些粉飾太平的話,那沒用啦現在變成大家都聰明,現在隨時都可以,我可以國文經常看人家環境部的monitor,他有五人啦,現在沒有五人啊嘛,好不好"},{"start":366.482,"end":376.059,"text":"部長,我昨天都在鄉村辦桌,台電、河山廠現在西湖公司的人已經都出去了,我也看到我們的賴總統這樣"},{"start":379.981,"end":404.072,"text":"轉彎,當然是最主要原因是來自美國的壓力美國國防部說我們至少要有兩座核能發電廠,才能保衛我們的基礎電力那些鄉村現在,博電你知不知道鄉村現在四個月了全部的民宿我們倒備了全部的餐廳大家都沒有,全部都吃土了但是歐克山莊將近400床的那個"},{"start":407.874,"end":414.116,"text":"四百個房間啦,不要講床,四百個房間的路貫都歸了現在有一些土木,水電都在核酸塘那邊開一天比這人,一天三千,所以不無小福,那些人很感謝那我看部長也很挺台電,還有總統這個"},{"start":432,"end":456.01,"text":"這個政策,所以我很肯定我們部長跟環境部這邊的用心那邊的人只要一提到那些光電板就咬牙切齒所以你怎麼彌補,最主要的是不然你要看我是怎樣,合兩家我覺得兩部機組太少了,應該用四部到六部"},{"start":457.558,"end":483.821,"text":"包委員 多元的能源如果可以減碳我們都會支持但是因為核電是屬於核安會在主管的也跟委員報告 因為目前環評的規定裡面這個是既有的機組 它目前不是不需要但是如果委員說要興建再多幾部那個就要再環評了 那個其實可能要花蠻多的時間要取得社會共識可能還要更多更多的"},{"start":484.781,"end":491.866,"text":"韓國的核能佔它總化電量57%30%法國70幾75%那德國號稱非核結果偷偷的跟法國買電那法國就用核能的電賣給它這個很諷刺"},{"start":503.473,"end":507.475,"text":"我看德國的電一度差不多14塊12到14塊我們負擔不起我們現在3塊8我們醫療的用電已經到7塊多很貴台電要漲價沒有人受得了所以"},{"start":523.803,"end":538.539,"text":"光電這邊你嚴格在管理,那我很肯定再來我要跟部長請教就是說,我們這一次的能源危機讓所有的塑膠業者,塑膠袋沒什麼,我講很好的啦,想要都買不到,要比較好,馬上大幅縮減,打標,否定?"},{"start":548.001,"end":565.926,"text":"現在我最大的問題,現在大家都穿環保帶,這樣很好啊但是你要讓人方便,還有誘因啦可不可以說你用小溜球,我們東郊去看,它有環保杯啊當時7-11你去買,買買要你贏贏的,你還要再購回來大家沒有什麼要贏什麼,一人贏過的東西"},{"start":571.363,"end":598.964,"text":"不要再高等,小小有錢錢沒有,小小有錢錢沒有怕恐懼嘛,所以你有沒有其他更好的方法,看這個機會看這個機會,用誘因來,譬如說煤啊,我是在想煤啊是不是有的用矽膠的,可以伸縮的,放下去比較好炸去買咖啡買什麼都可以水滴,冷凍的又赤赤的燒起來"},{"start":600.245,"end":603.667,"text":"有這種想法嗎?有啊,有包委員,有啦有包委員,像那個目前那個自己帶飲料杯自己的杯子然後去便利商店大概有兩成左右是可以折五塊嘛"},{"start":615.333,"end":641.238,"text":"啊這個誘因是最有效的啦誘因最有效啊之後我只能情感呼籲說啊你要環保貸有時候那個就相對的比較少有的人會做有人不會做那目前呢我們在那個建國花市喔那個悠遊卡如果你自己帶環保貸5塊啊我們是希望可以更多但是那個要花3萬倍也可以但是那個要花很多錢我們在測試這個市場上的這個接受程度我們是希望有經濟的誘因在裡面會比較快比較好啦"},{"start":642.478,"end":665.594,"text":"我是因為站在醫生的立場,這東西是自己會比較安心的,回去怎麼洗,這是你的事情嘛但是你這個東西,我們社會可以伸縮的啦,又不會老啦,好好走,不然一隻胖子站在旁邊也很奇怪所以這個要用點心啦,看看有沒有辦法,因為這一次探這個機會"},{"start":667.759,"end":672.965,"text":"塑膠袋一個人一天說你講的說一天用2.1個這真的假的一點多個這樣都可以減量這樣是好事因為那個還是汙染嘛那我最後一個問題我們的PE你說我們自己自給自足100%是不是"},{"start":688.782,"end":717.761,"text":"對那這些我們醫療也有用很多食藥署也是用很多你們現在是有問題嗎100%的自給自利然後又說不夠是到底出在哪裡不要又是缺點滴又是缺什麼又來了因為我們現在在單一的平台已經確定從藥廠藥商跟醫材商他的下游包括包材商跟樹立供應的商面"},{"start":718.422,"end":729.674,"text":"那這個部分前面這邊是衛福部食藥署後面的是產發署跟經濟部產發署協作所以雙方的協作我們現在藥廠通報說會缺的8家醫材通報目前有"},{"start":734.6,"end":748.668,"text":"加起來19家那我們實際上去評 去談要問細的 他們很緊張啊所以有缺12月的就已經來報了但是有缺6月5月的我們現在立即需要去支援的大概兩家"},{"start":750.629,"end":765.298,"text":"醫材商裡面總共有六家的所謂塑料的所謂醫材供應的部分有六家這六家我們都直接請產發署的同仁們直接對接所以我們做的兩邊就是食藥署跟產發署經濟部跟衛福部"},{"start":766.819,"end":783.928,"text":"雙方面往下走各自去對因為我們怕說我們對的傳導的是不一樣所以雙方對起來的目前是有兩家公司六家需要支持的部分目前都是直接對上了但是目前狀況是這樣都是PE嘛不只各項的都有各項的BVCTVC PE都有GEC的都有都有對對對目前是這樣"},{"start":791.672,"end":805.385,"text":"是啦這個我們也有協調因為這些原來很多都要靠進口啦現在那個地緣政治的關係沒辦法進口或是他們需要自己都不夠了所以你能掌控就是戰略上自己能夠100%的自己可以控制"},{"start":809.549,"end":830.67,"text":"目前這個跨部會都有在協調這個事情這部分我們有平起來一個月大概現在叫1200噸左右在醫材跟藥品箱包材那相對於整體的5萬噸來講是一小部分而已所以已經協調完優先供應大概在供應的部分你不要到時候連那個點滴瓶 點滴瓶也是PE嘛"},{"start":831.831,"end":841.376,"text":"對 現在是透析了洗聖瓶的那個也都是拼的那個都是拼 目前是那個到時候連那個缺的也有的有這個我們非常非常高度警覺好 謝謝好 謝謝蘇清泉委員發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:26.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:28.755000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:28.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:29.636000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:29.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:33.238000+08:00","text":"還有台電副總，台電不是副總要來嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:33.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:37.601000+08:00","text":"沒有，台電是專業總管理師黃美蓮。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:37.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:38.341000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:38.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:39.242000+08:00","text":"蘇委員要請台電嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:39.242000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:44.152500+08:00","text":"台電沒有來啊！有來！","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:44.152500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:49.063000+08:00","text":"有，在這裡。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:49.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:40:52.204000+08:00","text":"剛剛我們廖偉翔問的問題，部長知不知道？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:40:52.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:41:22.827000+08:00","text":"我想他不太知道，我可以補充一下，去年丹娜絲颱風來，我們嘉義、臺南、高雄光電受傷的有33個案場，這些案場上面壞掉的光電板都還沒到10年，都幾年而已。","quality":0.77},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:41:23.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:41:35.017000+08:00","text":"像我們去看最大的嘉義滯洪池64公頃，很淒慘，到現在也沒辦法處理，弄上來的這些你又不給他補。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:41:36.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:41:50.549000+08:00","text":"像彭部長講的，我們光電業者已經進入寒冬了，現在快要死掉了，就做在那裡了，不幫忙也不行，所以想這個案子來鼓勵他，協助他度過。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:41:52.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:41:55.553000+08:00","text":"不過銀行還會再貸給他嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:41:55.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:41:56.053000+08:00","text":"二次貸款？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:41:57.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:00.716000+08:00","text":"我還不清楚，不過那個還沒有動，我們是希望他可以起來啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:01.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:07.541000+08:00","text":"不然的話他也是死在那裡啦，所以這個是錯誤的能源政策！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:08.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:25.939000+08:00","text":"屋頂的太陽能板，我們是絕對支持啦，全世界都支持，但是成效不彰，這些在農地的、在魚塭的，像我們屏東搞得亂七八糟，這些都是詐騙集團，現在已經搞成這樣、已經錯了，雖然多少也對能源也有點幫忙。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:26.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:29.663000+08:00","text":"但是我問銀行的人，銀行說不敢貸給他們第二次，因為怕颱風又來，又掃一次，不是又死掉，現在要找誰討回錢，要找「魔神仔」還是「鬼仔」要？","quality":0.574},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:40.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:42.354000+08:00","text":"所以這是問題癥結之所在。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:43.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:51.401000+08:00","text":"能源署還經濟部搞這個方案出來是要幫忙他們度過，然後政府又不能拿錢直接……你們有沒有直接拿錢補給他們？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:51.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:52.021000+08:00","text":"沒有吧？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:53.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:42:58.407000+08:00","text":"沒有，你如果有就死定了，一推下去你真的會出事啦！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:42:58.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:16.318000+08:00","text":"好，我要問台電，我在麥寮的朋友說你們燃煤的廠本來要廢掉改成天然氣，但現在經濟部請他不要動，因為有可能馬上要頂上來燃煤。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:17.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:19.579000+08:00","text":"我第一個問題是，麥寮的燃煤現在有沒有在發電？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:19.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:20.820000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實麥寮的燃煤目前是沒有發電的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:29.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:37.241000+08:00","text":"沒有發電，那怎麼我們今天早上8點抓到麥寮PM2.5是一直往上飆到13、16、19？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:39.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:47.305000+08:00","text":"目前麥寮的三部機組，其中2號機已經拆掉了，而1號機跟3號機都是停機當中，所以沒有發電。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:48.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:53.308000+08:00","text":"他們本來是要把這個拆掉，要改成天然氣，是不是這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:53.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:53.448000+08:00","text":"不是，是……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:54.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:43:57.430000+08:00","text":"還是你們現在叫他不要動，然後旁邊再蓋天然氣？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:43:57.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:06.855000+08:00","text":"我說明一下，目前2號機拆掉，會再利用旁邊的空地，目前是在進行一個燃氣機組的建置當中，這個是持續在進行的，會新增兩部燃氣機組。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:06.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:07.055000+08:00","text":"所以現在麥寮在發電是靠什麼發電？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:07.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:07.575000+08:00","text":"現在都停了，都沒在發電了？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:08.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:08.516000+08:00","text":"麥寮他們沒有發電啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:08.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:09.656000+08:00","text":"那怎麼怎麼PM2.5……我們是很認真在抓，這個是環境部的monitor喔！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:09.656000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:23.077000+08:00","text":"部長，這你們的耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:23.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:30.939000+08:00","text":"空污不一定是發電廠的關係，實際上麥寮電廠是沒有在發電的，目前沒有。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:31.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:44.063000+08:00","text":"那你們現在請他準備好，隨時standby要上來，是不是怕荷莫茲海峽東西進不來，是不是這樣？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:45.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:46.947000+08:00","text":"我說明一下，其實因為中東整個情勢緊張，所以……當然。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:46.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:44:53.049000+08:00","text":"所以各國其實都已經在調整燃煤機組的發電，包括他可能開始啟動或者是調整發電的上限，其實以我們來講，也是要針對天然氣的部分做彈性的能源韌性，所以這個是一個有備無患的做法。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:44:53.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:45:17.037000+08:00","text":"所以經濟部昨天說不會啦，再怎麼燒，我們今年的燃煤用量一定比去年少！","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:45:18.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:45:21.980000+08:00","text":"講這個話，話中有話，聽懂的人聽懂，聽不懂的就不懂。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:45:23.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:45:32.805000+08:00","text":"我們目前對麥寮電廠是採用短期調度的方式來因應，而且會秉持在今年的用煤量水準，不會超過去年。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:45:34.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:45:35.207000+08:00","text":"所以隨時準備要燃煤啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:45:36.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:45:36.668000+08:00","text":"其實各國都在調整……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃專業總管理師美蓮","start":"2026-04-08T10:45:36.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:45:37.668000+08:00","text":"目前各國在調整……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:45:36.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:00.623000+08:00","text":"我是覺得台電或者經濟部要誠實跟百姓講，譬如現在天然氣部分，台電吸收了多少，天然氣有260億；中油關於95無鉛汽油的部分，如果不吸收的話，現在可能要四十幾塊了。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:01.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:04.324000+08:00","text":"照實講，讓百姓有感受啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:05.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:12.328000+08:00","text":"所以不要都報喜不報憂，然後盡講一些粉飾太平的話，那沒有用啦！","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:13.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:23.152000+08:00","text":"現在百姓大家很聰明，隨時都可以……我5分鐘就可以看到環境部的monitor，哪有笨的人啦？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:23.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:24.053000+08:00","text":"現在沒有笨的人了嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:24.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:24.493000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:25.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:33.837000+08:00","text":"部長，我昨天都在恆春半島，現在西屋公司的人已經都進去台電核三廠了。","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:33.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:46:48.225000+08:00","text":"我也看到賴總統這樣轉彎，當然最主要的原因是來自美國的壓力，美國國防部說我們至少要有兩座核能發電廠，才能保衛我們的基礎電力。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:46:52.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:01.031000+08:00","text":"部長，你知不知道恆春現在是死寂一片，全部的民宿快要倒光，全部的餐廳大家都沒有……差不多要「吃土」了啦！","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:02.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:08.474000+08:00","text":"像歐克山莊將近有400個房間的旅館都關起來了。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:08.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:12.616000+08:00","text":"現在有一些從事土木的、水電的都進去核三廠工作，一天有不少人，一天有3,000元，這也不無小補啊，那些人很是感謝。","quality":0.543},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:12.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:35.802000+08:00","text":"我看部長也很挺台電還有總統的這個政策，所以我很肯定部長跟環境部的用心。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:37.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:44.225000+08:00","text":"那邊的人只要一提到光電板就咬牙切齒，所以你怎麼彌補？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:44.225000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:45.225000+08:00","text":"最主要就是這個地方狀況很糟！","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:44.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:50.428000+08:00","text":"部長，你的看法是怎麼樣？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:51.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:47:54.990000+08:00","text":"核能部分，我覺得兩部機組太少了，應該用4部到6部啦！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:47:56.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:06.347000+08:00","text":"報告委員，多元的能源如果可以減碳，我們都會支持，但是核電是屬於核安會主管的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:07.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:22.801000+08:00","text":"也跟委員報告，因為目前的環評相關法規裡面，既有的機組是不需要，但是如果要再多興建幾部，就要環評了，可能要花蠻多的時間，要取得社會的共識，可能還要更多、更多的……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:23.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.382000+08:00","text":"韓國核能占總發電量57%。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.382000+08:00","text":"30%左右。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.402000+08:00","text":"法國七十幾。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.402000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:26.402000+08:00","text":"法國75%。75%嘛。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:25.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:30.846000+08:00","text":"德國號稱非核，結果偷偷跟法國買電，法國就用核能的電賣給他，這個很諷刺！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:43.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:45.214000+08:00","text":"德國的電1度差不多14塊，12到14塊，我們負擔不起啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:48:45.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:48:46.195000+08:00","text":"我們現在三塊八，醫療用電已經到七塊多，很貴，台電還要再漲價，沒有人受得了啊！","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:02.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:06.647000+08:00","text":"光電這邊你嚴格在管理了嘛，我很肯定。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:08.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:17.418000+08:00","text":"再來，我要跟部長請教，這一次的能源危機，讓所有的塑膠業者……沒塑膠袋、沒什麼的，我覺得很好啊，最好是都買不到更好，馬上大幅縮減、達標。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:27.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:34.743000+08:00","text":"部長，目前最大的問題……現在大家都拿環保袋，這樣很好啊，但是你要讓人家感到方便，也要有誘因。","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:37.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:44.666000+08:00","text":"譬如小琉球，我們上次有去看他們的環保杯，用來裝7-ELEVEN買的飲料，用完之後還要再交回去，大家沒什麼意願要使用，為什麼？","quality":0.426},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:44.666000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:49.976500+08:00","text":"那是人家用過的東西，杯子還交回去，會洗乾淨嗎？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:49.976500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:55.287000+08:00","text":"有消毒乾淨嗎？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:55.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:55.527000+08:00","text":"會恐懼嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:55.527000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:49:56.968000+08:00","text":"大家不用人家用過的東西。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:49:56.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:50:19.585000+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有其他更好的方法，趁這個機會來增加誘因，譬如我是在想說那個杯子是不是用矽膠可以伸縮的，比較方便攜帶，買咖啡等飲品時可以馬上裝，喝完了洗一洗，可以立即收起來，有這種想法嗎？","quality":0.622},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:50:19.585000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:50:21.226000+08:00","text":"賴署長，你有什麼想法嗎？有啊！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:50:21.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:50:42.735000+08:00","text":"報告委員，像目前自己帶飲料杯去便利商店的大概有兩成左右，可以折5塊，這個誘因是最有效的，之後我只能情感呼籲說要帶環保袋，這個部分就相對比較少人，有的人會做，有人不會做。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:50:43.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:00.218000+08:00","text":"目前我們在建國花市如果是自己帶環保袋，悠遊卡有5元優惠，我們是希望可以更多，循環杯也可以，但是那個要花很多錢，我們在測試這個市場的接受程度，我們希望有經濟的誘因在裡面，這樣會比較快，比較好啦！","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:02.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:05.661000+08:00","text":"因為站在醫生的立場，這個東西還是要自己的會比較安心啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:07.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:17.389000+08:00","text":"回家後要怎麼洗等等，這是自己的事情嘛，但是這個東西可以設計成伸縮的，不會漏出來又好組裝的，不然一個杯子這麼大瓶，拿著走也很奇怪！","quality":0.552},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:18.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:20.111000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分要用點心啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:21.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:29.242000+08:00","text":"看看有沒有辦法……因為這一次趁這個機會……你說塑膠袋一個人一天用2.1個，這真的還假的？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:29.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:29.683000+08:00","text":"一點多個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:29.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:30.444000+08:00","text":"這樣都可以減量，是好事情，因為那個還是污染嘛。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:30.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:47.782000+08:00","text":"我的最後一個問題，關於PE，你說我們是自給自足，100%，是不是？對。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:47.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:51:57.288000+08:00","text":"這些PE在我們的醫療用很多，食藥署也是用很多，你們現在有出現問題嗎？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:51:57.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:52:02.611000+08:00","text":"100%的自給率，然後又說不夠，到底是問題出在哪裡？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:52:02.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:52:03.611000+08:00","text":"委員好，跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:52:02.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:52:05.253000+08:00","text":"不要又是缺點滴，又是缺什麼……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:52:07.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:52:24.450000+08:00","text":"這一點我們很注意，因為我們現在針對單一的平台，已經確定從藥廠、藥商跟醫材商，他的下游包括包材商跟塑粒供應，這個部分前面這邊是衛福部食藥署，後面的是跟經濟部產發署協作。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:52:25.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:52:43.986000+08:00","text":"雙方的協作下，現在藥廠通報說會缺的有8家，醫材通報目前加起來有19家，我們實際上去評、去盤，要問細項的，他們很緊張啊，所以有缺12月的就已經來報了，但是也有缺5月、6月的。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:52:44.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:01.056000+08:00","text":"我們現在立即需要去支援的大概有兩家醫材商；裡面所謂塑料醫材供應的部分有6家，這6家我們請產發署的同仁們直接對接。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:01.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:08.621000+08:00","text":"所以我們做了兩邊，就是食藥署跟產發署，經濟部跟衛福部，雙方面往下走，各自去對。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:08.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:18.786000+08:00","text":"因為擔心我們對的、傳導的是不一樣，所以雙方對起來的，目前是有兩家公司，6家需要支持的部分，目前都是直接對上了，大概目前狀況是這樣。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:18.786000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:19.786000+08:00","text":"都是PE嘛，Polyethylene！","quality":0.294},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:19.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:19.486000+08:00","text":"不只，各項都有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:20.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:20.587000+08:00","text":"PVC。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:20.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:22.548000+08:00","text":"PVC、PE都有，乙烯、聚乙烯都有。都有。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:22.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:22.568000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:22.568000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:23.568000+08:00","text":"部長，這樣對嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:22.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:39.761000+08:00","text":"是，這個部分我們也有協調，這些很多原來都要靠進口，現在因為地緣政治的關係沒辦法進口，或是他們需要，自己都不夠了……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:39.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:44.005000+08:00","text":"所以在戰略上，100%你自己能夠掌控，自己可以control？","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:48.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:50.931000+08:00","text":"對，目前跨部會都有在協調這個事情。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:50.931000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:53:52.293000+08:00","text":"好，加油。","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:53:52.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:06.247000+08:00","text":"這部分我們評估起來，在醫材跟藥品的相關包材上，現在一個月大概要1,200噸左右，相對於整體5萬噸來講，是一小部分而已，所以已經協調完優先供應，大概在供應的部分……","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:06.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:09.650000+08:00","text":"你不要到時候連點滴瓶……點滴瓶也是PE嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:10.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:12.472000+08:00","text":"對，透析的洗腎瓶都是PE，目前是……","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:12.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:16.094000+08:00","text":"那個也都是PE，不要到時候連那個都缺，就會死人了。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:16.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:19.415000+08:00","text":"有、有、有，這個部分我們非常高度警覺。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:19.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:19.815000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:19.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:20.356000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T10:54:20.856000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T10:54:23.998857+08:00","text":"接下來請黃秀芳委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}