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平心靜氣一下我想問一下現在這個中東戰事的關係讓大家開始擔憂我們國家能源的韌性什麼叫韌性 韌性應該就是說當國家面臨到特定的危機的時候應該有很強大的抵禦的能力這又有賴於超前部署跟及早的規劃但是現在台灣的能源韌性非常差你看中東一發生戰事"},{"start":53.737,"end":80.934,"text":"因為過去就是非常仰賴天然氣所以影響到天然氣的進口我們的政府大量去搶現貨然後增加了幾百億的錢去做這個事情然後讓大家很擔憂那更不用講其他的問題了我今天就Focus在能源因為我看到國科會也訂定了一個淨零科技的創新方案是2026年到2030年是四年編的五百億 沒錯好像之前才"},{"start":81.835,"end":109.723,"text":"那個主委也才宣布等一下我請主委來講一下你這個創新方案的內容但我想要先問一件事情因為我們國家其實很多單位都在做淨零碳盤的研究比如說中研院中研院它也有一個規劃它也是在說要針對比如說地熱、生殖能、海洋能高效太陽光電什麼去碳燃氫這些去做研究然後我們行政院"},{"start":110.823,"end":133.403,"text":"辦公室也有一個2050年的淨零碳排的目標我不知道國會主委你知道嗎行政院的目標我知道報告委員其實整個行政院整個國家我們的科技預算的編列是由國會來負責所以我們的這個淨零科技方案是涵蓋我們整個政府的不是只有國會但是目標不一樣就很怪我跟你講你聽我講"},{"start":135.324,"end":158.032,"text":"你現在行政院的網站都查得到你也可以去查你知不知道現在在我們行政院的網站上面2050淨零碳排的目標以能源這一塊你知道在2050年我們國家的能源超過一半六成以上是要什麼能源你知道嗎你知道在行政院上面的規劃你知道是什麼嗎是要綠能"},{"start":160.011,"end":183.553,"text":"對 60到70是再生能源對啊好 那你知道按照行政院的規劃60 70再生能源是以什麼為主嗎好啦 不為難你 我跟你講啦風力跟光電啦你覺得有可能嗎主委你覺得有可能嗎這個還要再努力啦這不可能的事嘛因為我們現在坦白說啦 我們現在的光電"},{"start":184.656,"end":212.612,"text":"我看得出來好像賴總統也不是很想推了啦因為他已經能放的地方都放了嘛水庫也放了高雄整個山頭砍掉也在放哪裡都在放光電板什麼漁電工生然後什麼農電工生所以他能夠發展已經很有限了好那我們講風力發電風力發電分兩種嘛陸域 海域跟陸基嘛海域的現在能放的我看也差不多了啦你再放就影響航道了啦陸域的話地方政府大概也都不會同意了啦"},{"start":213.172,"end":239.875,"text":"所以我覺得風力發電也都很有限結果你現在我們行政院的網站跟我們講說2050年淨零碳排60到70再生能源要以風力跟光電為主我這太脫離現實了吧那我現在跟主委講這件事情主要目的是說既然你剛剛也提到了嘛行政院整體來說只要是做能源方面的科研的計畫都是編在國科會"},{"start":241.018,"end":262.757,"text":"那你也要去跟不是編在國會是編在我們科技預算裡面但是是各部會在執行好啦我知道啦就是說跟你有關嘛那你是不是要去跟行政院講一下至少網站改一下或你訂一個新的戰略目標出來啊不然我覺得很好笑欸然後中研院院長喔上次他講啊他說去年我們大概台灣發電是2800億度"},{"start":265.458,"end":294.83,"text":"然後他的評估啦 2050年 你知道台灣大概用電量因為AI發展嘛 大家今天都在講AI 講那個半導體只要他的預估大概2050年大概需要多少電嘛5000億度 5000億度到6000億度換言之 2050年的發電量要去年的兩倍啦要兩倍 我真的很擔憂啦那個主委你覺得在這25年 今年2026啦在24年我們的發電量要到兩倍"},{"start":295.885,"end":313.112,"text":"有可能嗎?根據現在國科會你們的規劃是什麼?這個應該是整個經濟發展的需求估算出來的啦當然嘛,我們就是要以那個預估嘛不然大家在講什麼AI都沒有用嘛,因為你要有電啊"},{"start":314.238,"end":334.81,"text":"算力及電力嘛那大家都知道的事情我現在是問你說以國會你是做研究啊你一定要發展出新能源出來所以現在國會其實是我們在支持各種能源的開發的這個研究我們在支持我知道你會支持但你要有個方向嘛你去思考一下這24年就2026年到2050年20幾年間我們要怎麼樣讓我們的發電量變兩倍我問你"},{"start":342.939,"end":368.021,"text":"我們現在2026我們往前推二十幾年兩千年的時候我們那時候的發電跟現在發電有到兩倍嗎有到兩倍嗎二十幾年要增加兩倍要增加兩千多億度出來這個是很有挑戰當然啊那你覺得最有機會的是哪一項我看中研院他們是認為說是以地熱跟海洋能作為前瞻人員那國科會"},{"start":369.212,"end":378.98,"text":"你們主要是針對哪幾項比如說大家跟你申請錢嘛就像你剛剛講的大家跟你申請錢你針對哪幾項你覺得有機會發展你要特別重點補助去發展的是哪幾項"},{"start":380.031,"end":406.148,"text":"我們所有可能性都補助剛剛委員提到不管是地熱海洋能只要學生可以投入我們新的核能技術網民也投入所以各種可能性都有我覺得國科會也不能完全沒有戰略思考就是說只要你是發展跟能源有關的我就補助好像大家散彈打鳥你要先定出戰略能源發展方向出來我們所有不能所有啦你覺得最有機會是哪"},{"start":409.451,"end":430.237,"text":"舉前兩項每一個都有機會啦舉兩項啦兩項總是有嘛人家中研院都可以講出地熱跟海洋能的你國會主委你講不出來喔地熱跟海洋能是其中的兩個對對對那其他你覺得還有哪些是很值得發展我剛剛已經講了我們包含這個新的核能我們也投資啦那新的核能有沒有核廢料"},{"start":431.667,"end":448.402,"text":"核廢料現在要避免是很困難的但是大幅度的降低這是有可能的因為新河也是有核廢料你只要有核廢料民進黨就會問你說那核廢料放你煮回家嗎他接下來就會問這件事我們只是研究因為大幅度的降低你研究都不行"},{"start":448.942,"end":478.277,"text":"因為你只要提到像我們那時候在修核管法只是讓核電廠申請研議的時間放寬而已他就說核廢料要放我家了所以你去做研究他也說核廢料要放你家學術研究哪有核廢料學術研究只是在探討你不能做那件事啦你做那件事會被罵啦你要研究的話就是要研究出新核能沒有核廢料的不會被罵為什麼因為你不研究你也不知道它有沒有危險所以新核能是沒有核廢料很難沒有核廢料嘛很難沒有嘛"},{"start":479.481,"end":495.496,"text":"很難沒有嘛不是核廢料還有包含核廢料的活性它的半衰期它的輻射量你如果能夠降到這個核廢料的輻射量降到最低它的半衰期很短儲藏的時間可以縮短"},{"start":496.938,"end":518.54,"text":"確保安全 民眾可以接受的時候才會去進行嘛所以一定要做研究啦我是支持啦 我只是怕你被罵啦然後再來就是像國家原子能科技研究院他們的計畫是2035年要發第一度電SMR的 新核能的這個你們有補助10億元嘛 對吧我們有補助 對已經補助了嗎"},{"start":519.264,"end":544.264,"text":"所以這個就是現在正在審查所以這個東西就是你剛講的只要任何你是研究能源相關的新能源的你們都補助我們要投入你們都投入但我還是強烈建議主委你要有一個戰略的思考就是一個方向不要省在哪裡畢竟國家資源也是有限的而且時間也不多了謝謝委員委員心目中想的我們都有投入然後再來"},{"start":545.685,"end":570.604,"text":"問一下人才 因為我看主委你有接受媒體訪問你是希望新創矽谷的人才都可以回來台灣嘛投入我們的AI產業嘛是 我們希望能夠做那種創新應用的人才我是有看到說你的方法是你要編100億啦 投資基金啦去投資一些新創公司透過新創公司形成產業鏈然後讓他們在這邊有工作機會可以回來那我覺得"},{"start":571.525,"end":601.094,"text":"所以可能你可能要思考另外一個面向因為現在真正懂很多懂AI的其實是在國外的大型公司比如說像亞馬遜阿里巴巴這種那我們其實還蠻需要這種高階的AI人才可以回到台灣來加入台灣的AI產業那你現在用新創公司比如說你用100億投資那你投資一定是那種新創的就是說他也不知道能不能成功嘛你去支持嘛然後希望他們可以投入那以國外"},{"start":601.614,"end":628.691,"text":"已經在大公司很穩健工作的人對他誘因不大啦對他誘因不大所以你應該也要提一個方案出來就是說怎麼協助台灣的企業針對我剛剛講的那些就是已經在國外AI公司已經非常成熟的人要怎麼讓他回來我覺得要提出類似的方案出來我們的新創的方案其實包含這個就是吸引國外的人才回來那回來的"},{"start":630.812,"end":655.098,"text":"為什麼可以吸引他們就是因為新創是一個科技公司它有前景它有發展的這個機會你在一個大公司只是一個螺絲釘你就是拿薪水所以它有這樣的這個發展的機會但是對它來說有成本啊它等於是放棄一家大公司因為政府在支持政府在支持不是只有我覺得你可以試試看當然如果有機會有做得到當然很棒"},{"start":655.798,"end":678.273,"text":"可是很可能針對我剛剛講的那部分誘因是不大的所以可能還是要想別的方法出來我們會盡量提供還有其他的研發的補助還有我們要開拓我們自己的內需市場因為我們建的算力目的就是要應用如果沒有應用建的算力就沒有用了就浪費錢所以一定要發展各種各樣的應用這是創造未來新公司的一個機會讓年輕人"},{"start":681.516,"end":700.237,"text":"不必說一定要強迫自己進到既有的公司大公司當一個螺絲釘而已而是可以開創自己未來這種機會我們趕快放出來這個因為每個人都見仁見智有的人就喜歡去大公司所以我只是說提醒你啦透過新創公司要吸引人才我自己我覺得效果有限但也不想潑你冷水啊你可以試試看啦好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:50.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:52.871000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請主委，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:52.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:06:53.091000+08:00","text":"有請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:06:53.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:17.321000+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:17.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:20.062000+08:00","text":"主委，喝口水，平心靜氣一下！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:23.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:28.505000+08:00","text":"因為中東戰事的關係，大家開始擔憂國家能源的韌性，什麼叫韌性？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:29.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:40.749000+08:00","text":"應該就是當國家面臨特定危機時應具有強大的抵禦能力，這個又有賴於超前部署與及早的規劃，但是臺灣現在的能源韌性非常差啊！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:41.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:07:58.587000+08:00","text":"我們過去都非常的仰賴天然氣，你看中東一發生戰事就影響到我們的天然氣進口，政府只能大量去搶現貨，增加幾百億的經費做這件事，讓大家都感到很擔憂，更不用講其他的問題了！","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:07:58.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:08:08.993000+08:00","text":"今天我就focus在能源的部分，我看到國科會訂定了一個淨零科技的創新方案，從2026年到2030年，4年編列了500億元，沒錯吧！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:08:08.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:08:17.237000+08:00","text":"好像之前主委才宣布過，等一下就請主委說明這個創新方案的內容。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:08:17.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:08:37.262000+08:00","text":"現在我想先問一件事，我們國家其實有許多單位都在做淨零碳排的研究，譬如中研院，它規劃要針對地熱、生質能、海洋能、高效太陽光電及去碳燃氫等等進行研究。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:08:39.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:08:48.049000+08:00","text":"行政院辦公室也有一個2050年淨零碳排的目標，主委，你知道行政院的目標嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:08:48.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:08:48.310000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:08:48.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:01.281000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實整個行政院、整個國家的科技預算編列是由國科會負責，所以我們的淨零科技方案是涵蓋整個政府，不是只有國科會。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:01.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:02.242000+08:00","text":"但是目標不一樣啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:02.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:02.502000+08:00","text":"就很怪啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:03.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:08.845000+08:00","text":"你聽我講，這些在行政院網站上都查得到，你也可以去查！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:10.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:24.070000+08:00","text":"行政院網站上2050年淨零碳排目標在能源的這一塊，國家能源超過一半、六成以上是什麼能源，你知道嗎？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:24.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:27.572000+08:00","text":"你知道行政院的規劃是什麼嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:27.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:28.012000+08:00","text":"是要綠能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:30.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:31.512000+08:00","text":"對，60%至70%是再生能源。對啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:32.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:38.299000+08:00","text":"按照行政院的規劃，你知道60%至70%的再生能源是以什麼為主嗎？好啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:38.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:44.344000+08:00","text":"不為難你，我告訴你，就是風力與光電，你覺得有可能嗎？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:44.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:48.108000+08:00","text":"主委，你覺得有可能嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:48.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:48.949000+08:00","text":"這個還要再努力啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:49.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:09:50.230000+08:00","text":"這是不可能的事嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:09:52.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:10.025000+08:00","text":"坦白說，我看得出賴總統好像也不是很想推，因為能放的地方都已經放了，水庫也放了、高雄整個山頭的樹都砍掉也在放，到處都在放光電板，什麼魚電共生、什麼農電共生，總之它的發展已經很有限了。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:11.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:25.594000+08:00","text":"再來講風力發電，分為兩種，海域與陸域，我看現在海域能放的也是差不多了，你再放就會影響航道，至於陸域的部分，地方政府大概也都不會同意，因此我認為風力發電也都很有限。","quality":0.726},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:27.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:38.585000+08:00","text":"但是行政院的網站竟然說2050年淨零碳排目標是60%至70%的再生能源要以風力與光電為主，這個太脫離現實了吧！","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:40.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:49.215000+08:00","text":"我現在告訴主委這件事的主要目的，剛剛你也提到行政院只要是能源方面的科研計畫都是編列在國科會，那麼你也要……","quality":0.673},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:49.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:56.543000+08:00","text":"不是編在國科會，是編列在我們的科技預算裡面，不過是由各部會執行。好啦！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:56.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:57.143000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:57.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:10:58.484000+08:00","text":"就是與你有關嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:10:59.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:01.107000+08:00","text":"你是不是要告訴行政院？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:01.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:04.910000+08:00","text":"至少網站改一下，或是訂出一個新的戰略目標啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:05.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:06.331000+08:00","text":"不然，我覺得很好笑耶！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:07.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:25.742000+08:00","text":"上次中研院院長說，去年臺灣發電大概是2,800億度，現今順應AI及半導體的發展，根據他的評估，你知道2050年的臺灣需要用多少電嗎？","quality":0.547},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:27.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:27.423000+08:00","text":"5,000億度。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:27.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:32.965000+08:00","text":"5,000億度至6,000億度，換言之，2050年的發電量必須是去年的2倍啊！","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:34.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:34.726000+08:00","text":"要達到2倍啊！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:36.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:37.027000+08:00","text":"我真的是很擔憂啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:38.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:47.085000+08:00","text":"主委，今年是2026年，再過24年，我們的發電量要達到2倍，你覺得有可能嗎？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:47.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:51.067000+08:00","text":"目前國科會的規劃是什麼？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:51.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:56.289000+08:00","text":"這個應該是以整體經濟發展需求估算出來的啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:56.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:11:56.929000+08:00","text":"當然嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:11:57.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:03.092000+08:00","text":"我們就是要以那個來預估，不然，大家講什麼AI都沒有用，因為必須要有電啊！","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:04.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:06.860000+08:00","text":"算力即電力，這是大家都知道的事情。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:07.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:10.762000+08:00","text":"現在我就是問你，國科會從事的是研究，你們一定要發展出新的能源啊！","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:11.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:18.306000+08:00","text":"國科會現在就是支持各種能源的開發研究，我們都會支持。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:18.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:20.547000+08:00","text":"我知道你會支持，但你要有一個方向嘛！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:21.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:24.610000+08:00","text":"你思考一下，在2026年到2050年的二十幾年間，我們要如何讓發電量變成2倍？","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:24.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:41.627000+08:00","text":"我問你，從現在的2026年往前推二十幾年，2000年那時候的發電量與現在的發電量差距有到2倍嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:41.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:42.508000+08:00","text":"有到2倍嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:42.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:46.311000+08:00","text":"二十幾年要增加2倍、要增加二千多億度耶！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:47.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:49.033000+08:00","text":"這很有挑戰性啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:49.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:49.193000+08:00","text":"當然啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:50.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:12:52.897000+08:00","text":"你覺得最有機會的是哪一項？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:12:53.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:01.534000+08:00","text":"中研院認為是以地熱及海洋能作為前瞻能源，你們國科會主要是針對哪幾項？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:03.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:08.080000+08:00","text":"就像你剛剛講的，大家要向你們申請經費，你認為哪幾項有機會發展，可以特別重點補助？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:08.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:08.980000+08:00","text":"哪幾項可以發展？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:10.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:15.955000+08:00","text":"所有具可能性的都會補助，剛剛委員提到，無論是地熱、海洋能，只要願意投入……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:15.955000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:18.136000+08:00","text":"你不能這樣啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:18.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:22.800000+08:00","text":"對於新的核能技術，我們也投入，所以各種可能性都有。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:23.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:30.825000+08:00","text":"我覺得國科會也不能完全沒有戰略思考，只要是發展與能源有關的就補助，這樣好像是散彈打鳥。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:30.825000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:31.825000+08:00","text":"不是、不是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:30.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:33.407000+08:00","text":"你要先訂出戰略能源發展的方向。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:33.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:34.727000+08:00","text":"我們所有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:35.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:36.128000+08:00","text":"不能所有，你覺得最有機會的是哪些？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:39.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:39.931000+08:00","text":"只要舉出前二項即可？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:39.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:41.432000+08:00","text":"每一個都有機會啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:41.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:43.732000+08:00","text":"舉出2項啦！2項！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:43.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:44.112000+08:00","text":"總是有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:44.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:48.474000+08:00","text":"中研院都可以講出地熱及海洋能，國科會主委講不出來嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:49.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:53.315000+08:00","text":"地熱及海洋能是其中的2個。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:53.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:55.616000+08:00","text":"其他還有哪些是你認為很值得發展？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:55.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:13:58.977000+08:00","text":"我剛剛已經講了，包含新的核能，我們也投資啊！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:13:59.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:00.217000+08:00","text":"新的核能有沒有核廢料？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:02.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:04.469000+08:00","text":"現在要避免核廢料是很困難的事。對嘛！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:04.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:07.252000+08:00","text":"但大幅度降低是有可能的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:07.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:13.577000+08:00","text":"新核能也是有核廢料，只要有核廢料，民進黨就會問你，核廢料要放主委家嗎？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:13.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:14.498000+08:00","text":"接下來就會問這件事啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:15.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:17.221000+08:00","text":"我們只是研究，因為大幅度的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:17.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:18.382000+08:00","text":"研究都不行啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:19.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:29.047000+08:00","text":"像我們那時候修核管法，只是讓核電廠申請延役的時間放寬而已，他們就說核廢料要放我家，現在你說要研究，他們也會說核廢料要放你家。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:30.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:31.168000+08:00","text":"學術研究哪有核廢料？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:31.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:33.529000+08:00","text":"學術研究只是探討……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:33.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:35.470000+08:00","text":"你不能做這件事，做這件事就會被罵啦！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:36.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:39.913000+08:00","text":"你要研究就是要研究出新核能而且沒有核廢料。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:40.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:41.553000+08:00","text":"不會被罵，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:41.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:44.415000+08:00","text":"因為不研究就不知道它有沒有危險。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:44.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:47.156000+08:00","text":"所以新核能很難沒有核廢料，很難沒有嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:47.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:14:48.117000+08:00","text":"很難沒有嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:14:50.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:11.803000+08:00","text":"核廢料還包括核廢料的活性、半衰期及輻射量，如果能將核廢料的輻射量降到最低、半衰期很短、貯藏的時間可以縮短，可以確保安全，民眾能夠接受時才會進行，所以一定要做研究。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:11.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:14.305000+08:00","text":"我是支持的，只是怕你被罵啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:14.305000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:16.628000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:16.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:26.658000+08:00","text":"國家原子能科技研究院的計畫是2035年要發SMR的、新核能的第一度電，你們補助了10億元，對吧？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:27.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:27.740000+08:00","text":"對，我們有補助。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:28.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:28.540000+08:00","text":"已經補助了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:30.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:31.005000+08:00","text":"現在正在審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:31.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:32.687000+08:00","text":"正在審查？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:32.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:37.871000+08:00","text":"這個東西就是你剛剛講的，只要與新能源相關的研究，你們都會補助？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:38.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:38.612000+08:00","text":"我們要投入啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:39.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:49.861000+08:00","text":"你們都投入，但我還是強烈建議，主委，你要有一個戰略思考、一個方向，不要散彈打鳥，畢竟國家資源也是有限，而且時間也不多了。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:49.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:15:53.063000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，委員心目中想的，我們也都有投入。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:15:54.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:03.872000+08:00","text":"再來，關於人才的部分，主委接受媒體訪問時表示希望矽谷的新創人才都可以回來臺灣投入AI產業？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:05.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:07.855000+08:00","text":"是，我們希望能夠延攬創新應用的人才。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:09.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:16:19.063000+08:00","text":"你的方法是編列100億元作為投資基金去投資新創公司，透過新創公司形成產業鏈，讓他們因為在這邊可以有工作機會而回流。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:16:20.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:06.724000+08:00","text":"但我覺得主委可能要思考另外一個面向，現在很多真正懂AI的人才其實是在國外的大型公司，譬如亞馬遜、阿里巴巴等等，我們其實還滿需要這種高階AI人才加入臺灣的AI產業，現在你用100億元投資支持新創公司，希望他們能夠投入，但我們也不知道這些公司能不能成功，而且對於已經在國外AI公司穩健發展的人而言，誘因真的不大！","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:06.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:12.127000+08:00","text":"因此，你應該要再提出一個方案，看如何協助臺灣企業吸引那些在國外AI公司已經發展成熟的人才回來，我覺得要提出類似的方案。","quality":0.345},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:13.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:21.412000+08:00","text":"我們的新創方案就包含吸引國外人才回來，為什麼能吸引那些人回來？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:22.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:33.935000+08:00","text":"因為在一個新創的科技公司具有前景、具有發展的機會，他在大公司可能只是一個螺絲釘、只是領薪水，所以讓他有這樣的發展機會。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:33.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:36.756000+08:00","text":"但是對他而言也有成本，他等於是放棄了一家大公司。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:36.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:39.317000+08:00","text":"因為有政府支持，不是只有……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:40.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:42.617000+08:00","text":"我覺得你可以試試看啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:43.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:45.078000+08:00","text":"如果有機會做得到，當然是很棒！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:47.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:17:51.022000+08:00","text":"但針對我剛剛講的那個部分的誘因是不大，可能還是要想想其他的方法。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:17:51.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:18:05.131000+08:00","text":"我們會儘量提供其他的研發補助，另外也要開拓我們自己的內需市場，因為我們建立算力的目的就是要應用，如果沒有應用的話，建立算力就沒有用、就是浪費錢，所以一定要建立各種算力應用。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:18:05.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:18:19.685000+08:00","text":"這次是創造未來新公司的機會，讓年輕人不必強迫自己一定要進入既有的大公司當螺絲釘，而是可以開創自己的未來，我們要把這種機會拿出來。","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-08T12:18:19.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:18:29.776000+08:00","text":"這個其實是見仁見智，有的人就喜歡去大公司，我只是提醒你，透過新創公司的方式吸引人才，我覺得效果有限，但也不想潑你冷水，你可以試試看啦！謝謝。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:18:30.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:18:30.237000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:18:30.737000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:18:33.308429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝葉委員的詢答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:18:33.608429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:18:36.179857+08:00","text":"下一位請林倩綺委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}