{"error":false,"id":["168298"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168298,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168298","日期":"2026-04-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-08T12:49:38+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-08T12:55:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:09","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/70d8fc05dcd8abb0cb82ca4debbb4feeb9b76447cfe948db3efd812baa63ee5839797466756a34355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:49:38 - 12:55:47","會議時間":"2026-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":0.03096875,"end":6.342218750000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":8.535968750000002,"end":20.550968750000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":18.94784375,"end":19.16721875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":20.93909375,"end":22.91346875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":23.132843750000003,"end":23.504093750000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":23.85846875,"end":26.22096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":26.507843750000003,"end":33.62909375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":33.86534375,"end":41.66159375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":41.96534375,"end":48.462218750000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":45.509093750000005,"end":45.69471875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":48.93471875,"end":50.790968750000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":51.297218750000006,"end":57.659093750000004,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":58.806593750000005,"end":67.12596875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":67.58159375000001,"end":78.88784375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":79.88346875,"end":84.84471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":85.33409375000001,"end":87.93284375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":86.76846875000001,"end":87.02159375000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":88.01721875000001,"end":91.59471875000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":89.09721875000001,"end":89.33346875000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":92.23596875000001,"end":107.71034375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":94.49721875,"end":94.78409375000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":104.38596875,"end":104.53784375000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":106.49534375,"end":107.67659375000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":108.33471875000001,"end":109.85346875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":110.78159375000001,"end":133.78221875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":113.12721875000001,"end":116.97471875000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":133.93409375000002,"end":145.40909375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":145.52721875,"end":148.41284375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":149.12159375000002,"end":151.63596875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":151.88909375,"end":157.57596875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":157.74471875,"end":169.75971875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":159.09471875,"end":159.65159375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":169.10159375,"end":170.62034375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":170.11409375000002,"end":170.63721875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":170.63721875000002,"end":171.24471875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":171.24471875,"end":171.66659375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":171.66659375,"end":171.76784375,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":171.76784375,"end":171.85221875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":171.85221875000002,"end":171.90284375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":171.90284375000002,"end":171.93659375000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":171.93659375000001,"end":172.44284375,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":172.44284375,"end":172.59471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":172.59471875,"end":172.67909375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":172.67909375000002,"end":172.74659375000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":172.74659375000002,"end":172.96596875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":172.96596875,"end":178.66971875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":173.15159375000002,"end":173.65784375,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":174.92346875,"end":175.04159375,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":179.05784375000002,"end":183.19221875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":180.17159375,"end":180.99846875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":181.45409375,"end":182.34846875000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":183.88409375,"end":185.90909375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":186.68534375000002,"end":190.02659375000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":190.78596875000002,"end":191.39346875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":191.68034375000002,"end":197.21534375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":194.63346875000002,"end":194.95409375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":197.21534375000002,"end":211.17096875000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":211.33971875,"end":223.15221875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":223.65846875000003,"end":226.57784375000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":226.61159375000003,"end":227.30346875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":227.59034375000002,"end":233.10846875000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":234.50909375,"end":234.59346875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":234.59346875000003,"end":234.61034375000003,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":234.61034375000003,"end":235.03221875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":235.03221875000003,"end":236.21346875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":236.21346875,"end":236.23034375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":236.23034375,"end":236.28096875000003,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":236.28096875000003,"end":236.29784375000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":236.29784375000003,"end":236.43284375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":236.43284375000002,"end":236.44971875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":236.44971875000002,"end":236.63534375,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":236.63534375,"end":237.90096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":236.90534375000001,"end":237.32721875000001,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":237.90096875,"end":238.23846875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":238.23846875,"end":254.80971875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":238.28909375,"end":238.40721875000003,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":238.81221875000003,"end":239.30159375000002,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":255.83909375000002,"end":265.60971875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":258.72471875,"end":259.46721875000003,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":265.79534375000003,"end":268.41096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":268.79909375,"end":269.30534375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":269.49096875000004,"end":272.93346875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":273.20346875,"end":279.80159375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":280.69596875,"end":287.81721875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":283.78409375,"end":284.13846875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":288.42471875,"end":302.54909375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":303.29159375,"end":304.94534375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":305.35034375000004,"end":311.47596875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":311.84721875,"end":311.88096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":311.88096875,"end":311.89784375,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":311.89784375,"end":312.15096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳主任委員誠文","start":312.15096875,"end":312.75846875,"speaker_score":0.905},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":312.75846875,"end":313.39971875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":313.55159375,"end":315.55971875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":316.20096875,"end":317.04471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":317.36534375,"end":317.82096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":318.39471875000004,"end":329.02596875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":329.14409375,"end":333.64971875000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":334.13909375000003,"end":338.29034375000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":338.86409375,"end":341.71596875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":342.17159375,"end":345.02346875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":345.29346875000005,"end":347.35221875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":347.53784375000004,"end":349.73159375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":349.88346875,"end":353.19096875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":353.68034375,"end":361.89846875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":362.15159375,"end":363.36659375000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":363.55221875,"end":365.89784375000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":366.23534375,"end":367.53471875,"speaker_score":0.946}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.25,"text":"有請吳主委"},{"start":9.587,"end":33.234,"text":"黃處長跟張哲銘主委好 兩位處長好今天是談到國園院SMR初期報告誤導視聽國科會應關注能源並且延伸補助計畫來 我先請教一下主委最近大家都在談能源 再進行下一個來 除了我剛剛問經濟委員會問經濟部中東戰事天然氣吃緊結果經濟部說除了中東之外我們要採購來分散到美國或其他地方你同意嗎"},{"start":34.294,"end":56.287,"text":"同意但是除了這個之外呢有人說這個電力供應要多元化我們不能電燃氣要光電跟地熱要加強開發你同意嗎這個我們都還要再研究再看看他的可行性但是電子產業來說新型核能也是選項什麼是新型核能我們來看一下這是前天有一個中央社的說台灣的小型模組化"},{"start":59.051,"end":78.303,"text":"核整的供應圖呢它SMR研究今年啟動最快2035年會發出第一度電我嚇一跳啊喔 這個叫做國家原子科技研究院表示已經初步盤點了三檔SMR的技術可以讓高階核肺大減於七成請問 主委有沒有看到這個報導"},{"start":80.329,"end":107.57,"text":"媒體的報導我沒有注意到那你知道國原院這個是什麼東東嗎國家原子能科技研究院它是有接受你們的補助我們是編科技上因為這個是那你覺得他這樣的一個報導是不是又符合我們總統所說的核廢要而解核安要確保社會有共識有符合在上條件嗎目前看他的資訊他現在就是要研究他的資訊目前有沒有"},{"start":108.407,"end":133.436,"text":"有沒有達到這三項標準啊?SMR有沒有達到?目前是有機會有機會,好來我看一下我來看一下主委是不知道什麼是SMR所謂的小型化合反應爐它的技術是來自於核子潛艦為什麼?美蘇兩戰時間要長期的躲在水底下不用換氣不用換燃料所以呢SMR在軍事上一次裝填直到這個潛艦退役是不是這樣子?"},{"start":134.236,"end":148.093,"text":"所以它體積小容易移動所以就有人想到了那如果潛艦可以用那我們是不是可以把它拖來過其他的供電使用所以就有一個SMR的售電服務它只買電力供應服務你不用處理什麼"},{"start":149.141,"end":176.932,"text":"核廢跟電廠主義的問題沒有核貨的問題主委這是不是你所知道的是目前在倡議的SMR它的來由跟它的原因受青睞的原因我的了解不是這個樣子那請問這SMR是什麼它為什麼在商業上可以來應用它的源頭是不是跟美國的核動力潛艦是來自於同一個源頭可能想法從那個地方開始但是真正技術的發展現在有好幾個新的技術那它真的可以把核廢壓縮減少七成以上嗎"},{"start":179.304,"end":187.09,"text":"這是有機會的,但是還要進一步去研究2035年之前可以做到因為報紙上這樣寫啊那您自己評估有沒有可能"},{"start":191.855,"end":210.63,"text":"是有機會因為現在是還在試驗的階段美國在試驗階段國科會剛剛提到國科會審查國務院的計畫掌握了這個內容沒有來往下看其實傳統核電跟ASMR重啟核電跟VS我們的機載傳統核電像牛棚的投手"},{"start":211.651,"end":232.919,"text":"當我戰況吃緊的時候我趕快請中繼投手來投個五球三球解決一兩個打者這個你很熟對不對那個是緊急備援的但是呢SMR被搶的什麼指定打擊每一場都上而且真的是威力很大所以呢一個是吃緊缺少的緊急備援一個是成本高但是可以供應穩定的電力供應是不是未來的應用是這樣思考"},{"start":234.551,"end":254.328,"text":"包含它的成本目前還很高所以說因為它的成本很高所以不是很多的產業都用得起我們來看一下哪些產業會把它當作基礎原理傳產毛利低它希望平衡的電力維持競爭力但是高科技產業毛利高它只要空電穩定它可以接受高電價 是不是這樣子"},{"start":256.703,"end":279.405,"text":"如果電價高的話的確會有這種事是的,所以就SMR來講在國內是高科技產業在期待但是傳產的對他們意義不大因為你電價太高了所以我是說國科會對於國園院他所研究的內容有沒有辦法掌握到這個SMR的購電價格有沒有辦法確定他的服務內容和後段有沒有爆發在內是不是還有簽約的對象目前這三個東西跑出來了嗎"},{"start":280.905,"end":300.582,"text":"還沒有,因為我們就是要先進行可行性研究所以我們是做可行性研究,我們會是未來的供應商嗎?不是吧?不是應該是其他有這個能力儲存這些封存後退役的這些SMR,他的國家才會提供我們要評估我們適不適合用人家在製作那個腦塞的藥,我們想說我們有那個卡生糖要吃嗎?是不是這樣?"},{"start":303.519,"end":317.639,"text":"這個比較粗俗一點啦所以說當這三個條件還沒有浮現之前我們敢說SMR在台灣可以解決產業的藍莓之急嗎現在還沒有這個結論是所以沒有購電價格產業沒有我要不要用你沒有"},{"start":318.942,"end":333.107,"text":"服務的內容沒有確定核後端是不包含在我們的業者使用的範圍也就是說核後端你自己提供服務者你自己處理我們台灣沒有辦法處理核廢料或者說沒有供應的簽約對象如果這三者沒有半個"},{"start":334.207,"end":353.035,"text":"那SMR在台灣的商業應用幾乎是不可能的你同不同意同意好謝謝好我們現在看所以請我們國科會做這個事情請調查一下國園院對外發布SMR這是初期媒體寫的這麼樣的白天正大國科會跟核安會一周內就你們部分提出說明好不好"},{"start":354.21,"end":366.704,"text":"好第二個國科會未來應該加強化我們審查能源計畫包括國園院SMR中長期的研究計畫是要你們積極辦理但是請你們要審慎發布研究成果可以嗎是沒問題好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:38+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:49:39+08:00","text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士、先生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:39+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:49:40+08:00","text":"有請國科會吳主委，以及剛剛主委好像點到兩位主管，也請上臺。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:38.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:49:38.230000+08:00","text":"有請吳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:47.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:49:48.027000+08:00","text":"這是洪處長跟張執秘。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:49.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:49:50.028000+08:00","text":"主委好、兩位處長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:50.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:49:57.190000+08:00","text":"今天要談到國原院SMR初期報告誤導視聽，國科會應關注能源、嚴審補助計畫。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:49:57.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:12.474000+08:00","text":"我先請教主委，最近大家都在談能源韌性，針對儲能，我剛剛在經濟委員會問經濟部中東戰事導致天然氣吃緊問題，結果經濟部說，除了中東之外，我們要將採購分散到美國或其他地方，你同意嘛！同意。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:12.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:20.319000+08:00","text":"但是除了這個之外，也有人說電力供應要多元化，我們不能只靠天然氣，光電和地熱也要加強開發，你同意嗎？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:20.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:23.501000+08:00","text":"這個都還要再研究看看其可行性。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:23.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:27.003000+08:00","text":"但是電子產業說新型核能也是選項。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:27.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:27.743000+08:00","text":"那麼什麼是新型核能？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:27.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:28.504000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:30.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:44.216000+08:00","text":"這是前天中央社的報導，說臺灣小型模組化核能反應爐SMR研究今年啟動，最快2035年會發出第1度電。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:44.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:44.876000+08:00","text":"我嚇一跳啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:46.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:54.963000+08:00","text":"這裡說國家原子科技研究院表示已經初步盤點了3種SMR技術，可以讓高階核廢大減逾7成。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:55.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:56.303000+08:00","text":"請問主委有沒有看到這個報導？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:50:58.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:50:59.911000+08:00","text":"媒體報導我沒有注意到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:00.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:03.673000+08:00","text":"那你知道國原院是什麼單位嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:03.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:08.037000+08:00","text":"國家原子能科技研究院。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:08.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:09.338000+08:00","text":"那它有接受你們補助？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:10.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:12.560000+08:00","text":"我們是編科技預算，因為這是核……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:13.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:21.046000+08:00","text":"那你覺得這樣的報導是否符合總統所說的核廢料有解、核安要確保、社會要有共識？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:21.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:22.047000+08:00","text":"以目前看到的資訊，符合這三個條件嗎？","quality":0.312},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:23.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:24.229000+08:00","text":"現在就是要研究其可行性。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:25.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:27.427000+08:00","text":"是，那麼目前有沒有達到這三個標準？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:28.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:29.608000+08:00","text":"SMR有沒有達到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:29.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:31.249000+08:00","text":"目前是有機會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:31.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:31.909000+08:00","text":"有機會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:31.909000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:32.909000+08:00","text":"但是要研究。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:32.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:34.770000+08:00","text":"我們來看看主委知不知道什麼是SMR。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:35.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:40.132000+08:00","text":"所謂小型模組化核反應爐的技術來自核子潛艦，為什麼？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:40.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:51:51.416000+08:00","text":"美蘇冷戰期間須長期躲在水底下、不用換氣、不用換燃料，所以SMR在軍事上一次裝填，直到潛艦退役，是不是這樣？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:51:52.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:06.093000+08:00","text":"由於它體積小、容易移動，所以就有人想到，如果潛艦可以用，那我們是不是可以把它拖來做其他供電使用，也因此就有了一種SMR售電服務，只需買電力供應服務，不用處理什麼？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:07.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:10.002000+08:00","text":"核廢跟電廠除役，也沒有核後端問題。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:10.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:15.304000+08:00","text":"主委，這是不是你所知道的、是不是目前在倡議的SMR以及其來由與受青睞的原因？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:15.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:17.545000+08:00","text":"據我的了解不是這個樣子。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:17.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:19.526000+08:00","text":"那麼請問SMR是什麼？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:19.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:20.827000+08:00","text":"為什麼商業上可以應用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:21.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:25.929000+08:00","text":"源頭是不是跟美國的核動力潛艦來自同一個源頭？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:25.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:33.131000+08:00","text":"可能想法是從那個地方開始，至於真正的技術發展，現在有好幾個新的技術。是的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:33.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:34.932000+08:00","text":"那麼它真的可以將核廢料壓縮、減少7成以上嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:37.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:40.026000+08:00","text":"有機會，但還要進一步研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:40.026000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:41.026000+08:00","text":"有機會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:40.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:40.947000+08:00","text":"2035年之前可以做到？2035年喔？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:41.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:42.669000+08:00","text":"因為報紙上這樣寫啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:42.669000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:43.669000+08:00","text":"媒體怎麼報導，我不……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:42.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:45.070000+08:00","text":"那您自己評估有沒有可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:49.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:52:54.959000+08:00","text":"是有機會，但是美國現在還在試驗階段。好。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:52:56.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:00.203000+08:00","text":"剛剛提到，國科會審查國原院的計畫，那麼掌握了這個內容沒有？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:01.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:16.033000+08:00","text":"其實對比傳統核電與SMR、重啟核電vs.基載，傳統核電就像牛棚投手，當戰況吃緊時，趕快請中繼投手投個5球、3球，解決一、兩個打者，這點你很熟，對不對？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:16.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:16.814000+08:00","text":"那是緊急備援用。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:17.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:19.375000+08:00","text":"但是SMR被想成什麼？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:19.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:22.776000+08:00","text":"指定打擊，每一場都上，而且威力很大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:23.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:30.899000+08:00","text":"所以一是吃緊、缺少時的緊急備援，一是成本高、但可以提供穩定的電力供應，未來的應用是不是這樣思考？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:32.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:33.832000+08:00","text":"包含其成本……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:33.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:36.374000+08:00","text":"還很高嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:36.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:36.895000+08:00","text":"目前還很高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:38.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:44.201000+08:00","text":"是的，因為其成本很高，所以不是很多產業都用得起，我們來看一下哪些產業會把它當作基礎電力。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:45.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:52.308000+08:00","text":"傳產毛利低，要用便宜的電力維持競爭力，但是高科技產業毛利高，只要供電穩定，可以接受高電價，是不是這樣？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:54.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:53:56.825000+08:00","text":"如果電價高的話，的確會有這種趨勢。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:53:57.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:03.452000+08:00","text":"所以就SMR來講，在國內是受高科技產業期待，但對傳產意義不大，因為電價太高了。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:03.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:10.679000+08:00","text":"所以我問國科會對於國原院所研究的內容，有沒有辦法掌握到SMR的購電價格？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:11.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:14.543000+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法確定在其服務內容中，核後端有沒有包括在內？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:14.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:15.684000+08:00","text":"是不是還有簽約對象？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:16.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:17.405000+08:00","text":"目前這三個東西跑出來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:18.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:21.688000+08:00","text":"還沒有，因為我們就是要先進行可行性研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:22.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:26.492000+08:00","text":"是，你們是做可行性研究，那麼你們會是未來的供應商嗎？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:26.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:27.032000+08:00","text":"不是吧？不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:27.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:38.582000+08:00","text":"應該是其他有這個能力儲存這些封存後退役SMR的國家才會提供，我們則要評估我們適不適合用，就好比人家製造瀉藥，但我們也要想想有沒有那個屁股可以吃，是不是這樣？","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:41.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:42.220000+08:00","text":"這樣講是比較粗俗一點啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:43.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:50.071000+08:00","text":"但是在這三個條件浮現之前，我們敢說SMR在臺灣可以解決產業的燃眉之急嗎？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:50.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:54:51.093000+08:00","text":"現在還沒有這個結論。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:54:52.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:17.069000+08:00","text":"沒有購電價格，產業沒有辦法評估要不要用；沒有服務內容、沒有確定核後端是否包含在業者使用的範圍，也就是核後端要由提供業者自己處理，臺灣沒有辦法、能力處理核廢料，或者也沒有供應的簽約對象，如果這三者沒有半個達到，那麼SMR在臺灣的商業應用幾乎是不可能的，你同不同意？同意。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。往下看，所以請國科會做這件事","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:21.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:32.210000+08:00","text":"請調查國原院對外發布SMR初期報告後被媒體寫到能飛天鑽地一事，並請國科會與核安會在一週內就你們的部分提出說明好不好？好。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:32.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:40.259000+08:00","text":"第二，國科會未來應強化審查能源計畫，包括國原院SMR中長期研究計畫。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:40.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:44.343000+08:00","text":"是要你們積極辦理，但請你們要審慎發布研究成果，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:44.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:44.704000+08:00","text":"是，沒問題。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:45.204000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:46.632571+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:46.932571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:50.646857+08:00","text":"下一位詢答委員是鄭正鈐委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:50.946857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:54.375429+08:00","text":"鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:54.675429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:55:59.532571+08:00","text":"洪毓祥委員、洪毓祥委員、洪毓祥委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:55:59.832571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:56:04.689714+08:00","text":"何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-08T12:56:04.989714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-08T12:56:06.704000+08:00","text":"請徐富癸委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}