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謝謝主席 那有請卓院長卓院長請備詢"},{"start":39.482,"end":48.873,"text":"好 卓院長好那現在在質詢之前想要先請教你一個問題淨零碳排是行政院重要的政策跟國際責任嗎"},{"start":52.62,"end":63.604,"text":"當然全世界都在追求一個更乾淨的地球這當然是國際社會共同的責任那行政院這個也是國家的政策所以我們推動二次能源轉型其中最大的問題在這裡我們繼續看下去"},{"start":68.206,"end":93.351,"text":"在溫管法跟氣候變遷因應法都陸續上路之後政府在推動的淨零碳排這邊超過10年了年年都變預算了我們現在看到這個表現當中看到是說2005年的碳排達到最高的量值之後到2023年的碳值就減少有減少沒有錯但是4%而已"},{"start":94.051,"end":109.258,"text":"那化石性能源能就是我國的再發電再過八成多齁其中燃煤是最重要的二氧化碳來源齁那我們繼續看呢這個結果看到的是說在根據2025年的歐洲能源智庫AMBER他的所"},{"start":111.599,"end":137.871,"text":"全球電力評估顯示當中所看到的是在潔淨能源部分看到全球是到了40.8%台灣看到的是15.1%非常的多不只是低於全球比我們鄰國的部分中國 日本 韓國都還要低當然想要詢問的是卓院長這個在淨零碳排成果這個部分到底是什麼原因讓我們的這樣子的一個非碳電力的發展會低於全球"},{"start":139.714,"end":152.847,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒台灣因為我們各種產業的快速的發展需要的電力必須要充裕而且這個是我們對產業共同的責任也是世界上期待台灣有一個安全穩定的能源供應才能讓產業持續不斷的來推升"},{"start":155.61,"end":173.556,"text":"我們過去這10年我們在綠能的發展上面已經比10年之前的那8年多很多了部長請你看看這邊的國際間歐洲的部分去碳能源裡面看到第一項是什麼核能啊我們當然也很高興看到是說今年的3月20號"},{"start":176.078,"end":188.566,"text":"賴總統已經說了叫核二核三具備重啟的條件這部分走到正確路上是真的所以我當然就想要問他說什麼時候才能夠趕上全球平均的40.8的一個綠電的占比"},{"start":191.104,"end":207.889,"text":"我跟委員稍微調整一下我們是核三廠是進入到重啟的程序而不是已經具備重啟的條件這條件還要經過很多的程序是進入到重啟準備重啟的這個程序這個是部分必須叫委員來做澄清對 但是我"},{"start":209.07,"end":224.611,"text":"院長請你回答我說什麼時候我們尤其是經濟部部長在這邊還有環境部部長在這邊他主管的是淨零碳排的部分那最主要是說什麼時候我們能達到跟全球的平均水準40.8的比例啊這才重要請你回答"},{"start":226.752,"end":250.905,"text":"報告委員,其實最重要的是有沒有減碳我們台灣過去這五年當中,每年減2-3%我們預計在去年應該可以減到9%左右,這個都是符合我們預期的一個目標那委員提到這個所謂的能源的一個占比,我們還是要用到底減碳減了多少還有我們實際上的電力排代係數來看這個事情會比較公平這就是你的資料沒有辦法跟國際接軌"},{"start":252.046,"end":279.836,"text":"如果是這樣的話請你就必須要配合是說歐洲能源智庫這邊所提出來的部分它都是全世界在用的是用一次的標準在看大的全球跟我們的東亞的國家這就是沒有比人家吵啊你當然你跟日本韓國比你也可以跟新加坡比新加坡95%都是化石彈牙不是爛的新加坡沒有爛所以我們基本上希望可以趕快走到淨零碳排這條路時間上面還不行就對了時間上面就是還沒有辦法承諾"},{"start":281.396,"end":303.361,"text":"我們當然我們訂了2030、2035年的一個目標,目前的這個進度也都在這個軌道上面進行那每個國家的樣態不一樣,因為每個國家他的天然資源各種條件不一樣,我們不能一個國家跟另外一個國家相比那最大部分是不是像剛剛卓院長說的,也是戴總統所說的,當他如果核三的部分具備了經過一個安全的檢查之後,具備了核安"},{"start":303.781,"end":316.393,"text":"具備了安全的條件之後就可以重啟,就像符合到這樣的一個標準,是不是有這個印象?那兩個如果重啟的話也只不過占不到10%左右,所以委員我當然知道,但是有幫助,這個不管我們大家盡量都要檢視這個目標,對吧?"},{"start":318.718,"end":333.365,"text":"這只是選項之一我們希望多元化綠能還是為主選項之一就是一個可以採取的那我們繼續往下看 回來別的問題另外在淨零的轉型當中很重要的是在它的一個儲電系統尤其是在太陽能的部分"},{"start":334.485,"end":355.473,"text":"中午的時候非常多的電但是它最重要是要除能的系統能夠趕得上台得到效果尤其是還有分散性的電瓦的重點那我們現在看到的是以預算中心所提到的報告是說到114年的在發電端的它的達成目標的這個情形在除能系統在發電端它應該達到200的千瓦但是到114年7月的時候只達到60.08千瓦那就換說說這個裡面"},{"start":362.296,"end":376.25,"text":"太陽能中午的時候非常多的時候還造成了非常不只是除電沒有達達達成還造成說它的電網會不夠啊那這邊的情況之下短期能不能能夠達到多電網的穩定性呢八號委員我們現在葉建峰的這一個"},{"start":377.84,"end":403.62,"text":"備轉容量力基本上都應該維持在百分之七、百分之八現在目前為止都可以維持在這樣那主要當然但是電網的不穩定電網韌性不是本是行政院最大的問題要這麼說嗎白天的時候基本上都會超過百分之十幾就像您講因為太陽能光電發揮很好的效用不是但是問題是從電這部分夜間風的時候我們就有其他的能源可以來替代包括這個水力發電它有這個"},{"start":406.535,"end":424.317,"text":"這個日月潭的這個等等一些情況那另外當然那時候天然氣我們也會好那我們如果繼續往下看因為我們的預算中心已經提出來的這個報告當中已經呈現出來了在去年四七月的時候看到的是這些沒有辦法達到的"},{"start":425.018,"end":450.134,"text":"目標的原因最重要是可以看到是因為業者的量能不足有六家是業者的量能不足然後還涉及兩家是涉及到徵送跟爭議的部分少是他設置暫緩那請問一下這邊是表示說我們的經濟部還包括台電它裡面的因為工程的配合的不良而導致的這種的儲能系統的暴露的這個有問題工程的內部的管控有那個問題"},{"start":452.122,"end":480.863,"text":"報告委員因為太陽光電的部分事實上也感謝行政院現在我們跨部會都有一個平台在做一些處理那包括他在實行的過程當中或跟農業部有一些討論那一步一步的我們可不可以把它解決沒有我應該針對這幾個問題因為台電這邊看起來是說他在人測的過程當中是選擇這個管控的能力事實上是有問題才會出現這麼大量的一個部分13案裡面有8案是這樣子的一個情形"},{"start":482.156,"end":501.574,"text":"是不是在加強這樣的管控能力啊可以可以可以因為每一個案子事實上他面對的問題有時候不太一樣有時候是他比如說是漁電工生的一些案場有一件是其他的原因的案場那我們主案來做一些分析那這部分是不是可以給本席這樣的一個報告因為你們這件部分我想要給審計部要做一個歷史的出去了"},{"start":501.834,"end":519.576,"text":"可以可以好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看另外的部分也是在氣候變遷當中的一個非常重要的議題就是所謂的調適那我們看到的是說全球裡面有76個國家在做這樣的一個調適計畫都非常的重要提出資金需求然後也有這個追蹤的效益等等"},{"start":520.157,"end":529.966,"text":"但是我們看到的是台灣的部分其實也做得不錯可以看到從102年就開始進行汽油調適變遷的調適計畫114年的時候總共投入了大概6255.35億那115年的時候還提供了預算裡面有470.69億這看起來是好事但是我們可以看到這裡面大家可以看到這個三期計畫當中尤其是中間那一期從107年到111年的時候"},{"start":547.001,"end":566.839,"text":"並沒有提出它裡面的整個經費的內容是什麼這是很奇怪那當然就不會有目標啦然後現在以今年這個第三期來講109年到112年我們可以看到的不是110是112年到115年的情況的時候我們看到裡面呢它裡面呢"},{"start":567.459,"end":582.945,"text":"就有的情況是他並沒有呢把他那個這個資金上面的並沒有去把這樣的他的經驗內部的項目弄得很清楚尤其是我們知道這些調適的經費當中包括是在國土的這個部分還有包括抗"},{"start":584.105,"end":603.283,"text":"和水災的部分這些裡面看到包括的是都被預算中心提出來是在這個外產頂周的部分啊都沒有提出他的這個他裡面的實際項目的內容啊等等的不是完整啦例如說有十項裡面缺了大概六七項這樣的內容這部分我想問的是說如何評估當他沒有提出來這個調適資金的這樣的就是調適資金"},{"start":605.865,"end":635.178,"text":"已經有缺口了而且當初呢它裡面的成本效益跟目標當中並沒有列清楚那怎麼去落實啊這個470.69億是不是變成說是都到海裡面去啊只是一個空口的支票而已啊好 報告委員其實這個調適喔全世界都一樣面臨到一個很大資金的缺口因為這個調適屬於長期的可能要四五十年就像是一個癌症一樣現在很多人不會對於現在的癌症會馬上就有一些處理的但是我會對感冒災害馬上很有感"},{"start":635.578,"end":660.569,"text":"所以目前全世界的確對調試都承認有一個很大的缺口我們台灣也不例外我們過去的確這個調試有一定的費用但是有沒有精準的到位我們現在正在檢討當中我們希望在下一期也就是說明年開始這一期我們有一個更好的一個做法但是也跟委員坦承所有的調試都是一個長期的所有的政治人物的任期都遠比這個調試來得短很多所以這個其實要真的落實下來是一個很大的問題"},{"start":661.129,"end":682.408,"text":"好,那彭部長因為你本身來自業界,你對於氣候變遷的議題是非常重視的,是不是這部分的包括是我剛剛所說的這些包括他的目標跟那個包括是在評估的指標當中,是不是能更清楚的,已經有六書六本要把它補上?是,我們已經有了,但是也請委員,就是說這個議題是一個長期的議題,你必須給我們更多的一個支持,而不是說馬上"},{"start":683.789,"end":711.274,"text":"我只是在說這部分要補上,不然我們到時候要去檢核他的成本效益的時候根本沒辦法做目前全世界對於這個成本效益,資金都坦承都是不夠的需要更多,但是我們國家或是我們有需要更優先的一個項目所以的確在很多的國家都排在很後面,我們希望可以再提高好,那就請繼續的再努力,在那希望這個剛剛說的這個裡面的這個成果的就是他的一些指標當中能夠把目的要補上來好,那現在我們繼續再看第四個部分"},{"start":712.335,"end":731.444,"text":"就是在另外我們看到的是在部分的機關的沒宣費用就是創了一個新高五年最高在預算中心提出來了24.13億有這麼高的部分當然要問說他到底是什麼為什麼要變得這麼高而且裡面我們看到的是其中至少有12個機關是超過5000億那他報道都還包括這個"},{"start":734.545,"end":738.468,"text":"委員我請委員支持當政府各項的政務推動了更多我們必須要跟人民做更清楚的說明"},{"start":763.638,"end":783.963,"text":"才會讓整個政策它產生的扶國立民政策讓每個國人都能夠享受到那我們也推動了很多比方在談判的過程以及這次中東的情勢當中我們對產業做了很多的支持的策略我們也必須強化對產業的說明或者這個都是政策出來沒有落實是沒有用的"},{"start":784.423,"end":801.194,"text":"另外我們現在媒體的生態委員也是清楚的一件事情我們必須要強而有力的一而再再而三的是養媒體的嫌疑養媒體的嫌疑是養媒體澄清一而再再而三的去澄清可是打仗的效果事實上還不太夠"},{"start":801.994,"end":825.177,"text":"打詐我們會在打詐的過程當中因為有法律的強硬支持我們現在有更新的這些平台在處理這些評估指標都缺乏跟實際的效果連接在一起這部分是院長要去行政院要檢討的如果委員是這樣的觀點我們從這個地方來檢討如果強化讓每一筆錢都能發揮效果而不是把錢都刪掉了讓政府沒有"},{"start":825.717,"end":847.946,"text":"防衛或是出擊的能力那對各項政府的推動是非常困難的那這個指標是不是像我們未來所知的那種像各部會去所知的時候這邊是不是能夠具體給本席或是我們民眾黨團這要不要指標了這部分因為這是很重要的啊任何我們國會的委員們行政室的管道來所知行政院當然要遵守行政院對立法院負責的意願"},{"start":848.386,"end":874.492,"text":"好 謝謝院長做這個承諾那我們最後看到一個非常重要的 我來自教育界我們看到啦 去年年底的時候啊世新的傳播學院的院長啊他提到了 就是嘉敏先生說 國將衰啊 先見其師這裡面出現的是教師在寧靜革命啊在教室內做一個文明的政變啊因為即使我們有非常多合格教師但是就是有非常多教師他不願意進到教室"},{"start":875.052,"end":895.978,"text":"在場域教室裡面去尤其看到最重要的數據是怎麼樣我們的高中教師的薪資事實上照這個情況就一萬八千美元可是其他的部分台灣需要三十年才趕上OECD的水準工時我們是平均超過五十小時其他的國家都四十多小時等等的這一部分低工時高薪資"},{"start":899.059,"end":924.631,"text":"低薪資高工時就照著教師荒這部分那想請問一下預計再透過這次的預算呢到底怎麼樣去調整教師的薪資待遇或是過去還曾經以主技術還以說因為軍工教的待遇是一起的所以沒辦法去進行的是一起去調整但是教師他們作為國本沒有優秀的其實我們台積電這些人才呢所以在這邊是不是請院長在這邊給我們全國教師一個非常嚴正的一個聲明說"},{"start":926.312,"end":926.332,"text":"謝謝劉宇"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:10.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:12.457000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:12.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:12.657000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:12.657000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:25.403000+08:00","text":"劉委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:25.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:25.884000+08:00","text":"卓院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:27.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:33.873000+08:00","text":"在質詢之前想要先請教您一個問題，淨零碳排是行政院重要的政策跟國際責任嗎？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:37.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:40.281000+08:00","text":"當然全世界都在追求一個更乾淨的地球……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:40.281000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:41.281000+08:00","text":"好，就是嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:41.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:48.064000+08:00","text":"這當然是國際社會共同的責任也是國家的政策，所以我們推動二次能源轉型，其中最大問題也在這裏。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:48.064000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:46:53.206000+08:00","text":"非常好，我再繼續問下去，我們已經有準備了，很好。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:46:53.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:47:25.074000+08:00","text":"在溫管法跟氣候變遷因應法都陸續上路之後，政府推動淨零碳排超過10年了，年年都編列相關預算，我們現在看到這些表現：2005年碳排達到最高值之後，到2023年的碳值就僅減少4%而已，是有減少沒有錯；另外我國的化石性能源發電占比超過八成多，其中燃煤是最重要的二氧化碳來源。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:47:25.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:47:47.904000+08:00","text":"我們繼續看這個結果，根據2025年歐洲能源智庫Ember的全球電力評估顯示，在潔淨能源部分，全球是40.8%，臺灣則是15.1%，差非常的多啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:47:48.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:48:02.851000+08:00","text":"不只是低於全球，比中國、日本、韓國等鄰國都還要低，想要詢問卓院長在淨零碳排的成果部分，到底是什麼原因讓我們的非碳電力發展低於全球？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:48:04.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:48:17.827000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒，臺灣因為各種產業的快速發展，需要的電力必須要充裕，而且這是我們對產業共同的責任，全世界也期待臺灣有一個安全、穩定的能源供應，才能讓產業持續不斷的推升。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:48:20.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:48:28.773000+08:00","text":"我們過去這10年在綠能的發展上，已經比10年之前的那8年多很多了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:48:28.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:48:34.735000+08:00","text":"對，部長，請你看看國際間在歐洲的部分，去碳能源裡面看到的第一項是什麼？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:48:34.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:48:35.275000+08:00","text":"核能啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:48:35.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:48:53.546000+08:00","text":"我們當然也很高興今年的3月20號賴總統已經說了，核二、核三具備重啟的條件，這部分就是真的走到正確的路上，所以我就想要問，什麼時候才能夠趕上全球平均40.8的綠電占比？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:48:56.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:12.169000+08:00","text":"我跟委員稍微調整一下，我們的核三廠是進入到重啟的程序，而不是已經具備重啟的條件，這些條件還要經過很多的程序，是進入到準備重啟的程序，這部分必須向委員作澄清。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:12.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:27.949000+08:00","text":"對，請院長回答，尤其是經濟部部長，還有環境部部長也在這邊，他們主管是淨零碳排的部分，最主要是什麼時候我們能達到全球平均水準40.8的比例啊！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:28.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:29.591000+08:00","text":"這才重要，請你回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:31.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:43.739000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實最重要的是有沒有減碳，我們臺灣過去這5年當中每年減2%到3%，我們預計在去年應該可以減到9%左右，這些都是符合我們預期的目標。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:43.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:52.584000+08:00","text":"委員提到能源的占比，我們還是要用到底減了多少碳以及實際的電力排碳係數來看這件事情會比較公允。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:53.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:55.905000+08:00","text":"這就是你的資料沒有辦法跟國際接軌。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:55.905000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:49:57.046000+08:00","text":"不會，我們一直都跟國際……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:49:57.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:09.430000+08:00","text":"如果這樣的話，請你就必須要配合的是，歐洲能源智庫這邊所提出來的部分，全世界是用這個標準在看待，全球跟東亞國家，這些就沒有比人家少……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:11.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:15.733000+08:00","text":"報告委員，當然你跟日本、韓國，你也可以跟新加坡比，新加坡95%都是化石燃料。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:15.733000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:16.833000+08:00","text":"你們要比爛的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:16.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:18.353000+08:00","text":"不是爛的，新加坡沒有爛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:18.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:21.795000+08:00","text":"所以我們基本上希望可以趕快走到淨零碳排這條路，確保往這樣在走。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:22.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:23.535000+08:00","text":"那時間上面還不行就對了？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:23.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:24.836000+08:00","text":"時間上面就是還沒有辦法承諾？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:26.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:32.437000+08:00","text":"當然我們訂了2030、2035年的目標，目前的進度也都在這個軌道上面進行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:33.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:39.819000+08:00","text":"每個國家的樣態不一樣，因為每個國家的天然資源各種條件不一樣，不能將一個國家跟另外一個國家相比。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:39.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:53.966000+08:00","text":"最大的部分是不是像剛才卓院長說的，也是賴總統所說的，如果核三的部分經過一個安全檢查之後，具備了核安、安全條件之後就可以重啟，要符合這樣的標準，是不是有這個傾向？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:54.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:50:58.671000+08:00","text":"報告委員，那兩個如果重啟的話，也占不到4%左右，所以委員……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:50:58.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:01.373000+08:00","text":"我當然知道，但是有幫助，我們大家儘量都要減，是這個目標，對吧？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:03.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:06.679000+08:00","text":"這只是選項之一，我們希望多元化、綠能發電為主。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:06.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:07.980000+08:00","text":"對，選項之一就是一個可以採取的啦！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:08.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:26.768000+08:00","text":"我們繼續往下看別的問題，另外在淨零轉型當中，很重要的是儲電系統，尤其是太陽能的部分，中午的時候有非常多的電，但最重要的是儲能系統要能夠趕上來得到效果，尤其還有分散性電網之重點。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:28.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:39.373000+08:00","text":"預算中心所提出的報告，指出到114年發電端達成目標的情形，在儲能系統上面，發電端應該達到200瓩，但是到114年7月的時候只達到60.08瓩。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:47.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:53.362000+08:00","text":"當太陽能在中午非常多的時候，不只是儲電沒有達成，還造成電網會不夠啊！","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:54.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:51:57.586000+08:00","text":"這個情況之下，短期能夠達到多少的電網穩定性呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T09:51:58.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:52:10.286000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在夜尖峰的備轉容量率，基本上都是應該維持在7%、8%，目前為止都可以維持在這樣，主要當然……","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:52:10.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:52:15.890000+08:00","text":"但是電網的不穩定，電網韌性不是行政院最大的重要政策嗎？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T09:52:15.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:52:20.934000+08:00","text":"是、是，我們白天的時候基本上都會超過百分之十幾，就像您講的，因為太陽能光電發揮很好的效用……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:52:21.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:52:22.215000+08:00","text":"不是，但問題是儲電這部分……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T09:52:22.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:52:36.482000+08:00","text":"夜尖峰的時候，我們就有其他的能源可以替代，包括水力發電有日月潭等等的一些情況；另外，當然那時候就天然氣我們也會有一些……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:52:36.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:01.606000+08:00","text":"好，繼續往下看，因為我們預算中心已經提出來，這個報告當中已經呈現出來了，去年7月看到的是，這些沒有辦法達到目標的原因，最重要的是因為業者量能不足，有6家業者量能不足，有2家還涉及到訴訟爭議，導致暫緩設置。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:02.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:13.934000+08:00","text":"請問一下，這是不是表示經濟部包括台電裡面，因為工程配合不良而導致了儲能系統暴露出有問題啊？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:13.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:15.134000+08:00","text":"工程的內部管控有沒有問題呢？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:17.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:32.793000+08:00","text":"報告委員，太陽能光電的部分，事實上也感謝行政院，現在我們跨部會都有一個平臺在做一些處理，包括在實行的過程當中，會跟農業部有些討論，一步一步地我們可以把它解決掉。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:32.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:45.843000+08:00","text":"沒有，針對這幾個問題，因為台電這邊看起來，等於是他在過程當中，管控能力事實上是有問題，才會出現這麼大量的部分，13案裡面有8案是這樣子的情形。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:45.843000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:47.156000+08:00","text":"因為這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:47.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:53:48.618000+08:00","text":"是不是再加強管控能力啊？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T09:53:49.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:54:00.028000+08:00","text":"可以、可以，因為每一個案子，事實上它面對的問題有時候不太一樣，有時候比如是漁電共生的一些案場，有一些是其他原因的案場，我們逐案做一些處理跟協助。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:54:00.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:54:01.950000+08:00","text":"這部分是不是要給本席報告？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:54:02.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:54:07.595000+08:00","text":"因為你們這部分，我要給審計部做一個list出去……可以。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:54:07.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:54:07.955000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:54:08.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:54:24.556000+08:00","text":"我們繼續再往下看，另外，也是氣候變遷當中一個非常重要的議題，就是所謂的調適，全球有76個國家在做調適計畫，這非常重要，提列資金需求，也有追蹤效益等等。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:54:26.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:54:57.026000+08:00","text":"臺灣的部分其實也做得不錯，102年就開始進行氣候變遷的調適計畫，114年總共投入了大概6,255.35億，115年還提供預算470.69億，這看起來是好事，但是大家可以看到這個三期計畫的中間那一期（107年─111年）並沒有提出整個經費的內容是什麼，這是很奇怪的事情，這樣當然就不會有目標啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:54:57.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:55:43.118000+08:00","text":"以今年這個第三期（112年─115年）來講，我們看到它的項目內容並沒有很清楚，尤其是我們知道，這些調適的經費當中包括國土的部分，還有抗旱、抗水災的部分，根據預算中心的說法，外傘頂洲的部分並沒有實際項目的完整內容，譬如十項裡面缺了六、七項。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:55:44.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:55:57.048000+08:00","text":"這部分我想問的是，調適資金已經有缺口了，而且成本效益和目標並沒有列清楚，這樣要怎麼去落實？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:55:57.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:56:03.831000+08:00","text":"這個470.69億是不是變得像是丟到海裡面去、只是一張空頭支票而已？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:56:04.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:56:29.302000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實這個調適全世界都一樣面臨很大的資金缺口，因為這個調適屬於長期的，可能要四、五十年，就像癌症一樣，現在很多人不會馬上對癌症做一些處理，但是對感冒、災害馬上就很有感，所以目前全世界對調適的確都承認有一個很大的缺口，我們臺灣也不例外，我們過去對調適有一定的費用，但是有沒有精準到位？","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:56:29.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:56:35.344000+08:00","text":"我們正在檢討當中，希望在下一期，也就是明年開始這一期有一個更好的做法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:56:35.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:56:45.569000+08:00","text":"但是也跟委員坦承，所有的調適都是長期的，所有政治人物的任期都遠比這個調適短很多，所以這個要真正落實下來真的是一個很大的問題。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:56:46.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:56:58.460000+08:00","text":"彭部長來自業界，你對氣候變遷的議題是非常重視的，這部分包括我剛剛說的目標、評估指標是不是能更清楚？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:56:58.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:56:59.961000+08:00","text":"如果有疏漏，是不是能把它補上？","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:00.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:07.388000+08:00","text":"我們已經有了，但是也請委員支持，因為這是一個長期的議題，你必須給我們更多支持，而不是馬上……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:08.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:12.090000+08:00","text":"我們當然支持，我只是說這部分要補上，不然我們根本沒辦法檢核它的成本效益啊！","quality":0.618},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:13.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:26.412000+08:00","text":"目前全世界對於這個成本效益、資金都坦承是不夠的、需要更多，但是我們國家有更優先的項目，所以的確在很多國家都排在很後面，我們希望可以再提高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:26.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:34.294000+08:00","text":"好，那就請繼續努力，同時希望相關指標和目的能夠補上來。是。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:34.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:36.314500+08:00","text":"接下來是部分機關媒宣費用創新高的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:36.314500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:38.335000+08:00","text":"預算中心指出，115年度媒宣費總計24.13億，為五年來最高，我們當然要問：為什麼編得這麼高？","quality":0.057},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:38.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:56.204000+08:00","text":"我們看到其中至少有12個機關超過5,000萬元，還有幾個機關的成長率是好幾百個百分點，而且缺乏目標值。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:56.204000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:57.364333+08:00","text":"是不是請院長說明一下為什麼會變成這樣的情況？","quality":0.048},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:57.364333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:58.524667+08:00","text":"是不是會圖利某些媒體？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:58.524667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T09:57:59.685000+08:00","text":"這是我們懷疑的部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:57:59.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:58:34.079000+08:00","text":"我請委員支持，當政府各項政務推動得更多，我們必須跟人民做更清楚的說明，才會讓整個福國利民的政策讓每個國人都能夠享受到。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:58:34.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:58:48.943000+08:00","text":"我們也推動了很多，比方在談判的過程以及這次中東的情勢當中，我們對產業做了很多支持的策略，我們也必須強化對產業的說明，否則政策出來但沒有落實，這是沒有用的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:58:49.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:58:56.908000+08:00","text":"另外，委員也清楚現在媒體的生態，一件事情我們必須強而有力，一而再，再而三地充分說明……","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:58:57.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:58:58.569000+08:00","text":"但是看起來有養媒體的嫌疑耶！","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:00.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:01.731000+08:00","text":"不是養媒體，是澄清！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:02.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:04.052000+08:00","text":"是一而再，再而三地去澄清。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:04.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:06.194000+08:00","text":"可是打詐的效果事實上還不太夠喔！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:08.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:14.221000+08:00","text":"在打詐的過程當中，因為有法律的強力支持，我們現在有更新的平台在處理。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:14.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:20.847000+08:00","text":"我現在的重點是這些評估指標都缺乏跟實際效果連結在一起，這部分是不是行政院要檢討的？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:21.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:36.099000+08:00","text":"如果委員是這樣的觀點，我們從這個地方來檢討如何強化讓每一筆錢都能發揮效果，而不是把錢都刪掉了，讓政府沒有防衛或是出擊的能力，那樣政府各項政務的推動就非常困難了。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:36.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:40.981000+08:00","text":"針對這些指標，我們未來向各部會索資的時候，相關資料是不是能具體提供給本席或民眾黨黨團？","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:43.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:44.803000+08:00","text":"包括指標的部分，因為這是很重要的啊！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:45.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:52.826000+08:00","text":"任何國會的委員循正式管道來索資，行政院當然要遵守行政院對立法院負責的義務。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:53.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T09:59:54.406000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長做這個承諾。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T09:59:54.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:00:24.273000+08:00","text":"最後看到一個非常重要的議題，我來自教育界，我們看到了去年年底的時候，世新的傳播學院院長江岷欽教授提到了「國將衰先賤其師」，這裡面出現的是教師在寧靜革命，在教室內做一個文明的政變，因為即使我們有非常多的合格教師，但是就是有非常多教師不願意進到教師的場域教室裡面去，尤其看到最重要的數據是怎麼樣？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:00:24.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:00:29.935000+08:00","text":"高中教師的薪資事實上照這個情況只有1萬8,000美元，可是其他的部分呢？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:00:30.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:00:32.816000+08:00","text":"臺灣需要30年才趕上OECD的水準。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:00:33.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:00:46.840000+08:00","text":"有關工時的部分，我們平均超過50小時，其他的國家都四十多個小時等等，這一部分低薪資、高工時就造成教師荒。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:00:47.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:04.188000+08:00","text":"想請問一下，預計透過這次的預算，到底怎麼樣去調升教師的薪資待遇，或是過去主計處還說因為軍公教的待遇是一起的，所以沒辦法一起進行調整，但是教師作為國本，沒有優秀的師資，我們怎麼有台積電這些人才呢？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:04.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:09.611000+08:00","text":"所以是不是請院長在這邊給我們全國教師一個非常嚴正的聲明，行政院絕對會支持教師有合理的待遇，事實上應該要提升，不然甚至都跑到業界去了，我們沒有教師了，怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.37},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:09.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:10.611000+08:00","text":"當然，針對軍公教，我們會在衡平、公平的原則底下，全面來檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:10.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:11.611000+08:00","text":"對於教師，我們也提高他的導師費、行政費的加給，這些我們都已經陸續開始在做了，我們會更為加強。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:11.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:12.611000+08:00","text":"這個是不夠的！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:12.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:13.611000+08:00","text":"會再加強，全面來檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:13.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:14.611000+08:00","text":"我想這部分，教育部要再給書面報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:11.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:11.312000+08:00","text":"謝謝劉委員……好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:11.812000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:12.954857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:13.254857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:14.969143+08:00","text":"也謝謝卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T10:01:15.269143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T10:01:18.412000+08:00","text":"接下來請吳思瑤委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}