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09:27:40","會議時間":"2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席就「我國海域放射性物質監測執行現況及未來因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查（一）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（二）委員葉元之等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。【僅進行詢答；第(三)案，如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":0.03096875,"end":1.6340937500000001,"speaker_score":0.854},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":6.3590937499999995,"end":6.679718750000001,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":7.87784375,"end":10.442843750000002,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":10.442843750000002,"end":10.965968750000002,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":10.965968750000002,"end":11.168468750000002,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":19.28534375,"end":51.58409375,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":20.669093750000002,"end":21.141593750000002,"speaker_score":0.854},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":52.20846875,"end":118.07159375,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":118.76346875,"end":127.25159375000001,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":127.82534375,"end":136.61721875,"speaker_score":0.854},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":135.33471875,"end":136.34721875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":137.41034375,"end":137.42721875,"speaker_score":0.854},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":137.42721875,"end":179.47971875000002,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":179.78346875,"end":181.31909375,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":182.09534375,"end":185.16659375,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":185.68971875000003,"end":194.80221875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":195.29159375,"end":197.18159375000002,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":197.68784375,"end":208.62284375000002,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":209.02784375000002,"end":215.28846875000002,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":215.64284375000003,"end":220.55346875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":220.95846875,"end":273.28784375000004,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":274.77284375,"end":276.25784375,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":276.00471875,"end":276.46034375,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":276.56159375000004,"end":297.03096875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":297.38534375,"end":308.05034375,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":308.32034375,"end":311.29034375000003,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":311.29034375000003,"end":311.34096875,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":311.93159375000005,"end":311.94846875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":311.94846875,"end":314.29409375,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":314.90159375,"end":317.19659375000003,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":314.96909375,"end":315.40784375000004,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":317.19659375000003,"end":331.65846875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":331.96221875000003,"end":332.53596875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":331.97909375,"end":335.28659375,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":335.28659375,"end":336.31596875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":336.28221875,"end":348.95534375,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":349.81596875,"end":352.31346875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":352.98846875000004,"end":357.83159375,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":357.08909375,"end":360.00846875,"speaker_score":0.834},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":358.72596875000005,"end":359.97471875,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長斌","start":360.00846875,"end":360.02534375000005,"speaker_score":0.961},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委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質詢好 謝謝主席有請主委 謝謝有請主委"},{"start":19.309,"end":34.834,"text":"好 主委早安喔好 我們來看一下這個第一張的投影片是我們看到一個新聞稿河岸會的新聞稿說台電已經在3月27號送出河山廠運轉執照的換照申請還有再運轉計畫文件"},{"start":36.354,"end":50.465,"text":"那核安會說你們在4月8號的時候已經確認台電送來的文件跟計劃是完整的而且符合申請要件所以接下來核安會會正式啟動實質審查作業以上的資訊是對的嗎"},{"start":52.424,"end":67.517,"text":"是的好那我们接下来就来看了所谓再运转计划这件事情我认为大家会非常好奇一台电的计划内容是什么二何安会如何进行所谓的实质审查我们来看一下为什么要问这个问题呢来第一个"},{"start":68.157,"end":88.204,"text":"我想所有的事情來下一張 核安是首要但是在上一次3月18號的時候核安會的匯報裡面到叫文來國民黨還有民眾黨很多委員一直問時程一直問時程要核安會回答那我要先說在還沒有看到實質的報告之前就積極的要求明確的時程我認為這個非常不合理"},{"start":88.604,"end":117.804,"text":"因為台電不是只是一個教功課的人何安慧也不是一個簡單改考卷的人在教了功課跟改了考卷之間我認為何安慧必須要清楚的跟國人交代來下一張那之前台電自己也明確的說安全沒有辦法用時間去權衡所以當台電交出再運轉計劃之後台電還要再提出自主安全計劃所以接下來我想要給主委您一點時間向國人報告"},{"start":118.824,"end":135.902,"text":"河安会未来要如何审查这个计划会邀请什么样的专家学者会有什么样的机制让国人安心来 诸位请河安会依据河管法来实施这个审查详细的内容我请我们的高组长好 谢谢"},{"start":137.452,"end":161.987,"text":"好 跟委員說明喔 那國內的核電廠都已經運轉執照已經屆期了那依照新的核管法的規定就是如果核電廠要繼續運轉必須要提出申請那主要要提出兩份的文件那一份就是剛才委員所提到再運轉計畫那主要目的就是要將原本是處在處於階段要把金主恢復到運轉的狀態"},{"start":163.257,"end":184.308,"text":"那另外一份文件就是包括老化管理老化評估跟耐震安全等相關的技術報告那這部分就是台電公司對外所說的自主安全檢查那所有的文件都要通過核安衛的安全審查跟現場查證那才會確認符合法規後才會同意換發執照"},{"start":185.765,"end":215.089,"text":"那在這個過程中除了核安會的同仁審查之外核安會也會邀請外部的學者專家那主要就是包括有核工那機械土木結構以及儀電等等跟電廠整個電廠運作息息相關的專業領域的學者專家來一起來審查相關的技術文件那所有文件跟審查的意見都會公佈在核安會的網站"},{"start":215.709,"end":241.877,"text":"那也可以讓民眾可以了解整個的審查作業的情形以上說明好那但是因為台灣過往沒有這個經驗對吧所以我們這一次我認為面臨前所未有的挑戰是當然我相信剛剛處長您所說的不論是河工專家機械專家土木專家電廠運作專家還有河安會我們內部技術同仁會就技術文件來進行審核然後再加上現場查證"},{"start":243.297,"end":248.2,"text":"可是因为过往没有这个经验我想问处长你们现在心里面有没有任何的规划"},{"start":274.817,"end":295.823,"text":"來 處長 謝謝你直接回答跟委員說明那確實現在國外的經驗很少包括國內的經濟也跟國外也有一些差異事實上可以參考的案件事實上我們也去參考那整個參考國外的經驗也都是以個案來處理這些案件那會裡面確實會依照"},{"start":297.463,"end":324.865,"text":"法規跟安全跟國際的一些經驗來審慎的去評估跟現場去確認台電公司的各項作業要符合法規跟安全的要求所以步驟都是按部就班循序漸進再推動現行你們可能會用到哪些法規你們的用法依據大概有哪些會裡面最原則就是核管法接著就有核子反應器設施運轉執照管理辦法"},{"start":325.586,"end":346.294,"text":"另外 河岸會也參考國際的做法 我們也訂立再運轉計畫的審查導則所以河岸會自己有訂立一個再運轉的這個法則對 審查導則好 審查法則 好 這樣看起來 與法是有所依據的那但是呢 到現場考察又是另外一個問題 對吧那預計第一次召開實質討論會議會是什麼時候 目前有規劃了嗎"},{"start":350.739,"end":373.512,"text":"我們現在進行實質審查那也請委員提出審查意見所以委員會先就文件來就提出意見沒錯然後第一次開會預計是什麼時候應該是在五月中下旬好 五月中下旬那開完會多久會把相關的會議記錄公告上網還是要等全部都審查完全部都開會完才會公告上網"},{"start":375.304,"end":378.794,"text":"跟委員說明,就是審查提出審查意見"},{"start":381.001,"end":408.701,"text":"当中如果审查的意见经过委员确认是可以接受的话这部分我们就会上网好 那我们非常期待看到后续所有专家学者给予核安会还有给予台电的意见那如同刚刚你说的因为就国外来说就台湾来说我们相关的案例都太少了所以我想跟你分享另外一个我不确定我们之后核安会跟台电会不会做这个事情根据国际原子风险评估组织INR他们有说明"},{"start":409.562,"end":432.1,"text":"在核电厂它其实有这个所谓预纲曲线的问题就在最初的磨合期跟后续的磨损期相关的风险是比较高的所以有非常多事情需要通盘考虑但时间有限我就不再细说但是为了确保这些安全的顾虑可以好好的被照顾好好的被倾听来下一张所以世界各国为了提升核能安全促进"},{"start":433.12,"end":460.663,"text":"經驗交流大家都有一個所謂的國際同儕審查那包含國際原子能總署還有歐洲核能安全監管機構組織都有類似的事情然後透過請世界各國的專家核能監管的機構研究單位甚至是各國的電力公司專家去到不同的國家進行審查進行經驗交流進行評估報告給予這個經驗的交流非常的重要我不確定後續台電需不需要進行國際"},{"start":462.264,"end":477.685,"text":"國際間的同儕審查來 何安惠 處長您直接說明好了就我們所知道台電公司會委託國際同儕的審查好 那這個會含在所謂的剛剛自主安全計畫裡頭嗎還是額外再一份報告提交給何安惠"},{"start":479.005,"end":504.725,"text":"他會先自主安全檢查完成之後就委託國際讓我們也會檢視國際同儕的一些審查意見好所以看起來有我剛剛第一部分說的核安會內部的實質討論會議審查會議同時台電會同步進行國際同儕審查相關的報告也會出爐所以這兩件事情基本上是並行對嗎時間軸是一直往下走的並不是誰先等誰出來誰再往下工作對嗎"},{"start":506.692,"end":535.053,"text":"應該是台電公司自主安全檢查之後交給同儕那我們自己內部也會執行那個審查評估另外我們也會再去看同儕審查針對河山廠比如說台電公司提出來河山廠這部分的意見這樣順序非常清楚了所以各自有進行中的工作但最後台電要再把這個國際同儕審查的報告再交給河安會 對嗎所以河安會再往下不管是考察或是"},{"start":535.894,"end":557.569,"text":"相关专家学者会议的时候会同步看到台电这个报告好听起来目前为止我们很多在意的事情看起来河南会也都有掌握我觉得这个状况听起来是蛮好的但是我们直接跳到下一张再下一张好我们看到河南会在4月20说4月28早上10点钟要在屏东县横村镇公所三楼礼堂举办"},{"start":558.069,"end":583.428,"text":"和安会审查和三场运转执照换发案的地方说明会上一次在3月18号的时候我就提醒和安会我认为这个说明会要扩大办理希望能够来的乡亲愿意来的乡亲都尽量让他们能够参与我想知道目前你们在地方上宣传的状况或者是如何确保我们希望可以更多乡亲可以参加这件事情目前和安会做了哪些努力"},{"start":585.858,"end":608.546,"text":"請主委或是處長回答都可以跟我說明在上個禮拜我們包括我跟同仁有去恆春鎮跟滿洲鄉拜訪那個村里長跟鄉長鎮長等等那也說明河岸會辦理這個地方說明會的目的那也希望說透過鄉長跟地方的代表村里長的"},{"start":609.406,"end":626.414,"text":"然後說明幫我們轉資給村裡鄉親知道說會裡面會辦這個活動也邀請他們踴躍來參加會裡面的地方說明會跟意見表達你現在有辦法確保你覺得或是大概的掌握大概會有多少鄉親到現場來"},{"start":628.786,"end":643.924,"text":"有這個掌握嗎目前我們會積極去收集跟了解啦好我覺得啦聽起來還是有一點消極應該是說大藻村長里長鄉長這些都沒有問題可是我認為地方上"},{"start":644.826,"end":659.326,"text":"大家要如何去想像我身為一個可能不懂核電的人我也不懂你的法案我也不懂什麼叫運轉計畫我更不懂什麼國際審查對鄉親來說在意的就是安全的這件事情我如何在這個會議中可以得到我要的答案所以我認為我們應該要更積極的"},{"start":661.329,"end":678.861,"text":"去跟地方的鄉親產生連結所以要拜託處長也要拜託主委拜託用各式各樣的方法透過不同層級的民意代表把你們要辦說明會的訊息廣發下去甚至當天要有里長廣播非常的local但是我都覺得非常的重要這件事情拜託你們更加積極"},{"start":679.722,"end":705.757,"text":"我們希望4月28號當天早上有盡可能的多人來參加然後讓你們收集意見讓你們傾聽民意確保最多的意見可以被你們帶回來和安會作為一個重要的參考依據甚至我們也希望如果可以同步開放線上讓更多人可以參與討論同時發言好嗎線上的部分有可能嗎我想跟委員報告我們會有現場直播"},{"start":707.398,"end":736.112,"text":"好 会有现场直播如果任何一个人想表达一些可以在我们河安会的官网上有个特别区域可以提出意见我们会回答所有的问题好 那我们到时候也一起宣传我认为把更多的声音带回来是重要最后 谢谢主席来河安湖无虞 河沸有解 社会共识持续发展再生能源我认为也是河安会要跟我们大家一起努力的好吗好 谢谢主委 谢谢处长 谢谢主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:26.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:33.353000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:33.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:33.973000+08:00","text":"有請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:44.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:44.309000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:44.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:44.969000+08:00","text":"主委早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:46.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:17.584000+08:00","text":"本席的第一張投影片是我們看到一則有關核安的新聞，核安會的新聞稿表示，台電已經在3月27號送出核三廠運轉執照的換照申請及再運轉計畫文件，核安會表示在4月8號已經確認台電送來的文件跟計畫是完整的，而且符合申請要件，所以接下來核安會會正式啟動實質審查作業，以上的資訊是對的嗎？是的。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:17.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:25.911000+08:00","text":"好，我們接下來看，所謂再運轉計畫這件事情，我認為大家會非常好奇的是：一、台電的計畫內容是什麼？","quality":0.537},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:26.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:29.674000+08:00","text":"二、核安會如何進行所謂的實質審查？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:29.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:31.916000+08:00","text":"我為什麼要問這個問題呢？","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:32.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:45.701000+08:00","text":"第一個，我想所有的事情核安是首要，但是在上一次（3月18日）核安會到教文委員會進行業報的時候，國民黨及民眾黨很多委員一直問時程、一直問時程，要核安會回答。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:46.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:04.091000+08:00","text":"我要先說的是，在還沒有看到實質的報告之前就積極地要求明確的時程，我認為這個非常不合理，因為台電不只是一個交功課的人，核安會也不是一個簡單改考卷的人，在交了功課跟改了考卷之間，我認為核安會必須要清楚地跟國人交代。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:05.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:31.112000+08:00","text":"之前台電自己也明確表示，安全沒有辦法用時間去權衡，所以當台電交出再運轉計畫之後，台電還要再提出自主安全計畫，所以接下來我想要給主委一點時間向國人報告，核安會未來要如何審查這個計畫，會邀請什麼樣的專家學者，會有什麼樣的機制，讓國人安心，主委請說明。","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:33.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:39.541000+08:00","text":"核安會依據核管法來實施審查，詳細的內容，我請實際負責的高組長來說明。","quality":0.355},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:40.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:40.502000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:42.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:18.943000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，國內核電廠的運轉執照都已經屆期了，依照新的核管法的規定，如果核電廠要繼續運轉，必須要提出申請，主要是要提出兩份文件，一份就是剛才委員所提到的再運轉計畫，主要目的就是要將原本處於除役階段的機組恢復到運轉狀態；另外一份文件就是包括老化管理、老化評估跟耐震安全等相關技術報告，這部分就是台電公司對外所說的自主安全檢查。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:19.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:29.288000+08:00","text":"所有的文件都要通過核安會的安全審查跟現場查證，確認符合法規後，才會同意換發執照。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:31.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:04.650000+08:00","text":"在這個過程中，除了核安會同仁的審查之外，核安會也會邀請外部的學者專家，主要就是包括有核工、機械、土木結構以及儀電等等跟整個電廠運作息息相關的專業領域的學者專家來一起審查相關技術文件，所有文件跟審查意見都會公布在核安會的網站，讓民眾可以了解整個審查作業情形。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:04.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:05.450000+08:00","text":"以上說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:05.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:32.800000+08:00","text":"好，但是因為臺灣過往沒有這個經驗，所以我認為這一次面臨了前所未有的挑戰，當然我相信剛剛處長所說的，不論是核工專家、機械專家、土木專家、電廠運作專家，還有核安會內部的技術同仁，會就技術文件來進行審核，然後再加上現場查證，可是因為過往沒有這個經驗，我想問處長，你們現在心裡面有沒有任何的規劃或者期程或者計畫，將會如何進行？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:32.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:46.308500+08:00","text":"時間大概會是多久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:46.308500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:59.817000+08:00","text":"甚至是先看技術文件再去現場考察，還是來來回回、來來回回，在技術文件跟現場考察之間會有不斷辯證討論的過程，那個來來回回的次數、時間、頻率，還是說因為都還沒有開始，還沒有看到現場，還沒有認真看文件，也還沒有開始討論，所以完全沒有辦法給大家一個更清楚的說明呢？","quality":0.009},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:59.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:01.058000+08:00","text":"有關期程的部分，組長，您直接回答。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:01.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:37.435000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，確實現在國外的經驗很少，國內的情境跟國外也有一些差異，事實上，可以參考的案件我們也有去參考，參考國外的經驗也都是以個案來處理這些案件，會裡面會依照法規、安全跟國際的經驗來審慎評估，跟現場確認台電公司的各項作業符合法規跟安全的要求，所以步驟都是按部就班、循序漸進在推動。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:37.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:39.977000+08:00","text":"現行你們可能會用到哪些法規？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:39.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:41.979000+08:00","text":"你們的用法依據大概有哪些？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:43.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:56.048000+08:00","text":"會裡面原有的就是核管法，接著有核子反應器設施運轉執照申請審核辦法，另外，核安會也參考國際的做法，我們也訂定再運轉計畫的審查導則……","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:56.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:00.830000+08:00","text":"所以核安會自己有訂定一個再運轉的法則？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:00.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:01.290000+08:00","text":"對，審查導則。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:01.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:02.150000+08:00","text":"好，審查法則。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:02.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:08.513000+08:00","text":"這樣看起來，於法是有所依據的，但是到現場考察又是另外一個問題，對吧？是。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:09.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:10.454000+08:00","text":"預計什麼時候第一次召開實質討論會議？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:11.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:11.294000+08:00","text":"目前有規劃了嗎？還沒？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:15.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:21.582000+08:00","text":"我們現在進行實質審查，也請委員提出審查意見，現在……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:21.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:25.164000+08:00","text":"所以委員會先就文件來提出意見？沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:25.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:26.745000+08:00","text":"第一次開會預計是什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:27.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:29.526000+08:00","text":"應該是在5月中下旬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:29.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:30.867000+08:00","text":"好，5月中下旬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:32.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:38.512000+08:00","text":"開完會多久，會把相關的會議紀錄公告上網，還是要等全部都審查完、全部都開會完，才會公告上網？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:40.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:52.366000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，就是提出審查意見，當中如果審查的意見經過委員確認是可以接受的話，這部分我們就會上網。","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:52.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:58.570000+08:00","text":"好，我們非常期待看到後續所有專家學者給予核安會以及給予台電的意見。","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:59.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:22:26.091000+08:00","text":"如同剛剛你說的，就國外來說、就臺灣來說，相關案例都太少了，所以我想跟你分享另外一個，我不確定核安會跟台電之後會不會做這個事情，根據國際原子能風險評估組織（INR）說明，核電廠其實有所謂浴缸曲線的問題，就是在最初的磨合期跟後續的磨損期，相關風險是比較高的，所以有非常多事情需要通盤考慮，但時間有限，我就不再細說。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:22:27.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:02.940000+08:00","text":"為了確保這些安全顧慮可以好好地被照顧、好好地被傾聽，世界各國為了提升核能安全、促進經驗交流，大家都有所謂的國際同儕審查，包含國際原子能總署還有歐洲核能安全監管機構組織都有類似的事情，透過請世界各國的專家、核能監管的機構、研究單位，甚至是各國的電力公司專家去到不同的國家進行審查、進行經驗交流、進行評估報告，給予經驗的交流非常重要。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:03.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:08.005000+08:00","text":"我不確定後續台電需不需要進行國際間的同儕審查？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:09.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:10.228000+08:00","text":"組長，您直接說明好了。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:10.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:15.716000+08:00","text":"就我們所知道，台電公司會委託國際同儕審查。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:16.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:20.623000+08:00","text":"好，這個會含在剛剛的自主安全計畫裡頭嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:20.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:22.445000+08:00","text":"還是額外會再有一份報告提交給核安會？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:24.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:32.011000+08:00","text":"它會先自主安全檢查完成之後就委託國際，我們也會檢視國際同儕的審查意見。好。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:32.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:45.482000+08:00","text":"所以看起來，有我剛剛第一部分說的核安會內部的實質討論會議、審查會議，同時，台電會同步進行國際同儕審查，相關的報告也會出爐，所以這兩件事情基本上是並行，對嗎？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:45.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:49.725000+08:00","text":"時間軸是一直往下走的，並不是誰先等誰出來，誰再往下工作，對嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:51.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:24:08.365000+08:00","text":"應該是台電公司自主安全檢查之後交給同儕，我們自己內部也會執行審查評估，另外，我們也會再去看同儕審查針對核三廠的部分，比如說台電公司提出來的核三廠，有關這部分的意見，我們會綜合來看。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:24:08.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:24:17.932000+08:00","text":"OK，這樣順序非常清楚了，所以各自有進行中的工作，但最後台電要再把這個國際同儕審查的報告交給核安會，對嗎？是。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:24:17.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:24:24.216000+08:00","text":"所以核安會再往下，不管是考察或是相關專家學者會議的時候，會同步看到台電這個報告。","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:24:25.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:24:30.641000+08:00","text":"聽起來，我們很多在意的事情，核安會也都有掌握，我覺得這個狀況聽起來是蠻好的。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:24:31.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:25:08.408000+08:00","text":"我們看到核安會說4月28日早上10點要在屏東縣恆春鎮公所三樓禮堂舉辦核安會審查核三廠運轉執照換發案的地方說明會，在3月18號的時候，我就提醒核安會，我認為這個說明會要擴大辦理，希望能夠來的鄉親、願意來的鄉親，都儘量讓他們能夠參與，我想知道目前你們在地方上宣傳的狀況，或者是如何確保讓更多鄉親能夠參加，就此，目前核安會做了哪些努力？","quality":0.527},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:25:10.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:25:12.339000+08:00","text":"請主委或是組長回答，都可以。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:25:12.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:25:47.372000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，在上個禮拜，包括我跟同仁有去恆春鎮跟滿州鄉拜訪村里長跟鄉長、鎮長等等，也說明核安會辦理這個地方說明會的目的，也希望透過鄉長跟地方代表、村里長等說明，幫我們轉知給村里鄉親知道會裡面會辦這個活動，也邀請他們踴躍來參加這個地方說明會跟意見表達。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:25:47.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:25:56.389000+08:00","text":"你現在有辦法確保或是大概掌握會有多少鄉親到現場來，有這個掌握嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-04-22T09:25:57.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:25:59.313000+08:00","text":"我們會積極去蒐集跟了解。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:26:00.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:26:23.405000+08:00","text":"我覺得聽起來還是有一點消極，當然找村長、里長、鄉長都沒有問題，可是我認為地方上，大家要去想像，身為一個可能不懂核電的人，我也不懂你的法案，我也不懂什麼叫運轉計畫，我更不懂什麼國際審查，對鄉親來說，在意的就是安全，這件事情我如何在這個會議中可以得到我要的答案。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:26:23.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:06.735000+08:00","text":"所以我認為我們應該要更積極地跟地方鄉親產生連結，所以要拜託組長，也要拜託主委，拜託用各式各樣的方法，透過不同層級的民意代表，把你們要辦說明會的訊息廣發下去，甚至當天要有里長廣播，非常local，但是我覺得非常重要，這件事情拜託你們更加積極，我們希望4月28號當天早上有儘可能多的人來參加，然後讓你們蒐集意見、讓你們傾聽民意，確保最多的意見可以被你們帶回來核安會，作為一個重要的參考依據，甚至我們也希望，如果可以同步開放線上，讓更多人可以參與討論並同時發言，好嗎？好。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:06.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:08.116000+08:00","text":"線上的部分有可能嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:08.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:10.737000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我們會有現場直播。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:12.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:13.559000+08:00","text":"會有現場直播，好。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:13.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:24.704000+08:00","text":"如果任何一個人想表達意見，可以到我們核安會的官網上，有個特別區域可以提出意見，我們會回答所有的問題。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:25.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:29.286000+08:00","text":"好，我們到時候也一起宣傳，我認為把更多的聲音帶回來是重要的。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:29.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:38.310000+08:00","text":"最後要再強調，核安無虞、核廢有解、社會共識、持續發展再生能源，我認為這也是核安會要跟我們大家一起努力的，好嗎？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:38.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:41.092000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主委，謝謝組長，謝謝主席。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:41.592000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:42.734857+08:00","text":"謝謝主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:27:43.034857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:27:47.034857+08:00","text":"下一位質詢的委員是蔡春綢委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}