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验收啊下一页"},{"start":39.429,"end":54.575,"text":"第一個就是強化檢測的量能當時我在質詢的時候台灣的生物穿分析實驗室只有國園院自己一間然後現在加了兩間就河岸會自己有一個然後高雄市衛生局有一個就一間變三間"},{"start":56.256,"end":75.321,"text":"檢測的量能從每年本來500件一年現在可以檢測到2000件一年我的問題有兩個第一個這個因為高雄然後河安會然後這個國園院國園院這個地域不均的問題還有它終極的量能是不是已經足夠兩個問題快速回答"},{"start":78.144,"end":103.729,"text":"包括委員在這邊我們就是有考慮一些漁獲的一個捕獲其實集中在一個南部所以在輻射偵測中心還有我們的高雄可以就近那目前的一個2000件的檢測量連就那個食藥署跟農業部那個漁業署的一個採樣在這部分都是目前都OK所以暫時就三接沒有再進一步去擴充的必要"},{"start":104.469,"end":132.711,"text":"好那没关系我们持续看实际的需求滚动式的检讨下一页那我这里有两个数据一个是今天您的报告里头的这个河安会的历年海域样本分析件数统计总计出来其实我帮你算了是18385检测件次那我另外在我们的仪表板就是跨部会的辐射检测的仪表板统计出来的件数是29万多也就是将近30万"},{"start":134.272,"end":142.585,"text":"那我是不太清楚兩個統計的數字是為什麼有這個落差可能一個是減次一個是減數應該是這樣造成數字的不同是不是這樣子"},{"start":146.391,"end":149.715,"text":"報告委員因為我們當初因日本排放川水我們有成立了那個應對計畫然後跨部會那時候我們就是利用這樣來去做年度的監測計畫所以在圖表那個吧裡頭我們現在每年大概是4900多4800多件"},{"start":167.955,"end":188.71,"text":"但是因為在衛福部的進口食品的邊境查驗因為它是從也都算進來在我們的應對計畫因為它已經投入資源了有經費了所以你們把它列進來好那我知道但無論是一千一萬八千檢測件數或是二十九萬的監測件數都是零件不合格"},{"start":189.551,"end":208.521,"text":"是的 換言之我們暫時可以解除警報了給國人安心對不對我們長期的監控而且具體的科學化的檢測都在做零件不合格大家可以相對放心解除一點點警報但是持續追蹤持續監測持續的科研是我們的立場好 下一頁"},{"start":209.381,"end":221.375,"text":"第三個驗收就是我們要善用跟台日既有的核能管制資訊交流MOU然後來爭取赴日第一個我當初的要求是第一手要拿到資訊第二個我們甚至要能夠籌組專家團去做而我累積追蹤到現在"},{"start":228.123,"end":256.348,"text":"你们也都有照本席的建议要求至少完成了六次复日实地的访查而不是只依赖他们提供的资讯第二个呢我们定期的视讯会议二十几次持续都在做这个部分我也给你们肯定好吗这个也是验收通过持续进行下一页那最后就是这个当初在说这个寒川沸水大家搞得很恐慌但事实上呢我们反而遗漏了"},{"start":257.148,"end":278.903,"text":"在离我们最近的台湾海峡这一侧因为寒川沸水会往花莲那一边因为那个潮汐那个黑潮的关系所以说在我们大台湾跟中国大陆沿海核电厂分布这么的密集反而对于中国沿岸核电厂排放物对台湾的影响是更严重的"},{"start":279.503,"end":296.997,"text":"我一直在提出這個警訊跟要求那solution是什麼呢我看到你們要提出一個116年到119年跨部會的國家海域放射性物質污染監控任性網就可以一件理由all in one既可以監測福島寒川廢水又可以更來補強"},{"start":304.182,"end":331.37,"text":"中國沿岸核電廠放射性物質排放是不是這個計畫這個韌性網就在做這個事是的 如委員所述那預算呢那我們現在在爭取那期望的一個總預算是大概是一個6億不過省政院這邊還在審議中所以說現在要審很遺憾現在才在審去年要審的預算那現在在編明年的概算會編入明年的嗎"},{"start":332.51,"end":349.516,"text":"我們來爭取全力爭取好嗎不能再等好嗎我們也會一起來跟行政部門來要求跟倡議我希望今年明年再審審查明年預算的時候我們可以看到這一筆好嗎我們會跨黨派來支持好繼續加油好下一個驗收"},{"start":352.718,"end":358.868,"text":"這裡國研院要請教日本當初東京電力公司他是針對不同的魚種進行這個養殖的這個實驗比木魚鮑魚海藻等等所以說他除了監測海流之外也做了這種"},{"start":368.301,"end":394.006,"text":"養殖的實驗證實用川水去養殖就對了那證實結果川並不會於生物體內累積所以對於生物的健康沒有顯著的影響當時我在問這件事情的時候你們告訴我國研院自己也在進行用黃錫雕來試驗現在是不是在進行中要不要增加實驗的物種要不要持續的增加實驗的時間"},{"start":396.161,"end":409.948,"text":"這些呢是 報告委員現階段會把這個黃錫雕的檢驗整個把它做完原來就包括黃錫雕龍鬚燦九孔刀白蝦做完以後看下一個計畫如果下一期計畫"},{"start":411.129,"end":426.732,"text":"要繼續做這個國家願意繼續投入我們會增加我也支持跟倡議要繼續做增加實驗的物種我覺得這是兩個保護傘兩道防線一個是監測寒川廢水的這個排放物"},{"start":427.253,"end":428.694,"text":"很多在野党的委员在说核能很便宜"},{"start":457.393,"end":464.801,"text":"核能是真的那麼便宜的嗎主委你剛剛的回答我是大有意見你以他的發電的收費來看"},{"start":468.226,"end":496.097,"text":"我們對於核能的投資對於工程設備的更新尤其現在廚藝的核電廠要再啟用還有要對於採購燃料棒還有對於他的賠償風險你都不提耶你都不提耶我們作為一個政策的倡議者你是核安會的主委你可以輕率的回答說對核電比較安全我再給你一次機會"},{"start":500.41,"end":508.368,"text":"喝电不是零风险所以风险是有代价的风险也需要"},{"start":510.815,"end":529.592,"text":"你不能用核電的發電的幾塊錢一度一塊多比這個其他的人這個燃煤還便宜來簡化這個問題啊我用具體的數字來說你知道福島核電廠發生複合式的災害之後日本政府投入多少錢賠償嗎"},{"start":532.179,"end":552.552,"text":"我跟大家講我要跟公民社會講福島核電廠發生我們不幸的災難事件我們不願意看到它發生日本政府已經投入光賠償金10兆日元如果加上賠償金跟清理後續的廠的收拾是花費了22兆日元"},{"start":553.493,"end":575.681,"text":"最終這件事情還沒有結束喔最終會解決這整個福島核電衍生的善後最終的花費可能會到35兆至80兆日元我取它的中間值就是大概55兆日元等於11兆台幣光一個核電廠出現了安全的問題"},{"start":577.23,"end":598.508,"text":"他投入11兆台币现在还在收拾是4年的台湾国家政府总预算你告诉我核电很便宜你告诉我这些设备设施风险的代价不用计算吗主委我实在不能接受问题不能这么简化"},{"start":599.522,"end":618.228,"text":"委員他在垂尋他會從某一個切點切入可是我們在看待政策是要全面的我甚至我剛舉日本的例子我可以舉美國的例子啊跟核三廠類似的美國加州的魔鬼谷核電廠你們應當常常會提到這個案例吧"},{"start":619.108,"end":643.72,"text":"他對於整個攤提的成本設備的更新燃料的添購他的發電核電一度要到4塊台幣如果把攤提算進去絕對不是簡單說核電光講發電一度一塊多是廉價的是便宜的我認為我們講政策要講清楚要講全面"},{"start":645.101,"end":672.612,"text":"委員只看到其一你必須縱觀好嗎核電的風險跟安全的代價也是國家要pay for it台灣人民要pay for it這個事情我要在這裡正式的來澄清說清楚不要只看到核電的好處而它的好處也不是只有比較便宜這一項而你遺漏了它可能造成的風險"},{"start":674.033,"end":696.102,"text":"安全是無價的安全是無價的安全是無價的但即便如此我們二次的能源轉型我們要做的是能源的多元化核電只是其一核電不是唯一而核電還包括新式核能的開發不是只有舊核電的老路所以我確實"},{"start":697.603,"end":723.418,"text":"我也肯定政府正在做能源多元化的整体评估重启核电要过了安全这一关要有核废可以解决的这一关还有社会的共识要具足所以核电只是其一并非唯一这是我在这里要再次强调我刚回答是根据台电的说法这不是核安会的立场"},{"start":724.198,"end":728.408,"text":"那你的說法會被剪成影片去放你知道嗎我剛剛說的說不出裁店的"},{"start":731.283,"end":751.537,"text":"所以那您最後一樣主席站起來了最後給您10秒鐘核電真的是如此的廉價不需要去思考它的安全風險嗎您再回答一次我們核安會事實上只關心的是核電的安全經濟上是不是有效率就讓它們由台電來評估所以發言請注意發言請嚴謹好嗎好 謝謝加油辛苦了謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:33+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:34+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請主委和國原院高院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:34+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:35+08:00","text":"大家辛苦喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:35+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:36+08:00","text":"時間寶貴，我就直接扣合著主題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:37+08:00","text":"今天的專報是含氚廢水的監測。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:37+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:38+08:00","text":"事實上，我認為我們擴大海域的檢測是all in one，除了含氚廢水之外，還有大家都關心的中國沿岸核電廠的排放物。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:38+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:39+08:00","text":"我今天是來驗收的啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:33.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:21:43.740000+08:00","text":"從2019年到我離開教育文化委員會，應該是2024年，我8度質詢日本的含氚廢水，我也是立法院第一位關心這個議題的委員。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:21:44.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:22:06.623000+08:00","text":"我當時有倡議四個方向：第一個，在現有的MOU基礎上要擴大臺日合作；第二個，我們一定要組成跨部會的因應平臺；第三個，我們要跟IAEA國際原子能總署合作，擴大國際參與，一起來監測；最後一個，臺灣要在這個事件上做出科研的貢獻。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:22:07.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:22:11.008000+08:00","text":"這是我的四大主張，那我逐步的來驗收。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:22:12.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:22:34.157000+08:00","text":"第一個就是強化檢測的量能，當時我在質詢的時候，臺灣的生物氚分析實驗室只有國原院一間，現在加了2間，就是核安會自己有1個，高雄市衛生局有1個，就是1間變3間，檢測量能從每年500件到現在已經可以檢測到2,000件。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:22:34.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:22:48.021000+08:00","text":"我的問題有2個，第一個，因為一間在高雄、一間在核安會、一間在國原院，這有地域不均的問題，還有它的終極量能是不是已經足夠？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:22:48.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:22:48.301000+08:00","text":"這2個問題，請快速回答。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:22:51.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:00.666000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為我們考慮到漁獲的捕獲都是集中在南部，所以輻射偵測中心，還有我們高雄的……就近。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:01.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:01.586000+08:00","text":"對，可以就近。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:02.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:11.328000+08:00","text":"目前2,000件的檢測量能，就食藥署跟農業部漁業署的採樣，這部分都是……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:11.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:12.488000+08:00","text":"目前都OK？對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:13.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:16.709000+08:00","text":"所以暫時就是3間，沒有進一步擴充的必要？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:16.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:17.759500+08:00","text":"對，目前我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:17.759500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:18.810000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:18.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:21.052000+08:00","text":"我們持續的看實際需求，滾動式的檢討。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:21.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:35.883000+08:00","text":"我這裡有2個數據，一個是今天您報告裡頭的核安會歷年海域樣本分析件數統計，其實我幫你算了，總計是18,385檢測件次。","quality":0.458},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:36.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:45.671000+08:00","text":"另外，在跨部會輻射檢測儀表板統計出來的件數是二十九萬多，也就是將近30萬。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:47.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:51.519000+08:00","text":"我是不太清楚為什麼這2個統計數字有這個落差？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:51.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:23:55.565000+08:00","text":"可能一個是件次、一個是件數，應當是這樣造成數字的不同，是不是這樣子？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:23:59.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:01.794000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為當初是因應日本排放氚水，所以我們有成立應對計畫，然後跨部會，那時候我們就是利用這樣來做年度的監測計畫。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:01.794000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:02.794000+08:00","text":"好，那2個數字？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:01.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:26.699000+08:00","text":"對，所以在圖表的那個bar裡頭，現在每年大概是四千八百多件，但是因為衛福部的進口食品邊境查驗，因為它是從……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:26.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:28.080000+08:00","text":"也都算進來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:28.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:31.543000+08:00","text":"都在我們的應對計畫，因為它已經有投入資源和經費了。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:31.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:32.704000+08:00","text":"好，所以你們把它列進來。對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:32.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:33.464000+08:00","text":"好，那我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:33.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:42.711000+08:00","text":"但無論是1萬8,000檢測件次，或是29萬的監測件數，都是零件不合格。是的。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:43.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:24:47.694000+08:00","text":"換言之，我們暫時可以解除警報了，給國人安心，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:24:47.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:01.120000+08:00","text":"我們長期的監控，而且具體的科學化檢測都是零件不合格，大家可以相對放心，解除一點點警報；但要持續追蹤、持續監測，持續的科研是我們的立場。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:02.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:13.815000+08:00","text":"第三個驗收，就是我們要善用跟臺日既有的核能管制資訊交流MOU，然後來爭取赴日，我當初的第一個要求是要拿到第一手資訊，第二個我們甚至要能夠籌組專家團去做。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:13.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:37.306000+08:00","text":"而我累積追蹤到現在，你們也都有照本席的建議要求，至少完成了6次赴日實地的訪查，而不是只依賴他們提供的資訊；其次，我們定期的視訊會議二十幾次也都持續在做，這個部分我也給你們肯定。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:38.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:39.006000+08:00","text":"這部分也驗收通過。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:41.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:11.883000+08:00","text":"最後就是當初這個含氚廢水把大家搞得很恐慌，但事實上，我們卻遺漏了離我們最近的臺灣海峽這一側，因為潮汐、黑潮的關係，含氚廢水會往花蓮那一邊跑，可是我們臺灣跟中國大陸沿海核電廠分布得這麼密集，反而中國沿岸核電廠排放物對臺灣的影響是更嚴重的！","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:12.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:17.687000+08:00","text":"我一直在提出這個警訊跟要求，那solution是什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:18.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:28.616000+08:00","text":"我看到你們將提出一個116年到119年跨部會的國家海域放射性物質污染監控韌性網，就可以一舉兩得，all in one！","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:28.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:42.464000+08:00","text":"既可以監測福島含氚廢水，更可以來補強中國沿岸核電廠放射性物質排放，是不是這個計畫、這個韌性網就是在做這個事情？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:43.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:45.024000+08:00","text":"是的，如委員所述。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:45.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:45.885000+08:00","text":"預算呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:46.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:54.807000+08:00","text":"我們現在在爭取，希望的預算大概是6億；不過行政院還在審議中。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:56.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:57.288000+08:00","text":"還在審查？對。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:57.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:04.370000+08:00","text":"很遺憾現在才在審去年要審的預算，現在在編明年的概算，會編入明年嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:05.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:06.370000+08:00","text":"我們來爭取。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:06.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:08.351000+08:00","text":"全力爭取好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:08.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:09.572000+08:00","text":"不能再等好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:09.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:22.156000+08:00","text":"我們也會一起跟行政部門來要求跟倡議，我希望在審查明年預算的時候，我們可以看到這一筆，我們會跨黨派來支持，繼續加油。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:22.156000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:23.156000+08:00","text":"好，我們來努力。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:22.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:54.003000+08:00","text":"下一個驗收，本席要請教國原院，日本東京電力公司當初針對不同魚種進行養殖實驗，包括比目魚、鮑魚、海藻等等，他們除了監測海流之外，也做了這種養殖實驗，證實用氚水去養殖，氚並不會於生物體內累積，對生物的健康沒有顯著的影響。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:54.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:03.525000+08:00","text":"當時我在問這件事情的時候，你們告訴我國原院自己也在用黃錫鯛來試驗，現在是不是在進行中？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:04.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:05.785000+08:00","text":"要不要增加實驗的物種？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:06.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:07.006000+08:00","text":"持續增加實驗的時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:10.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:20.367000+08:00","text":"報告委員，現階段會把黃錫鯛的整個檢驗做完，原來就包括黃錫鯛、龍鬚鱔、九孔鮑、白蝦……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:20.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:20.807000+08:00","text":"做完以後呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:21.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:27.875000+08:00","text":"做完以後再看下一個計畫，如果下一期計畫國家願意繼續投入，我們會增加其他的……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:28.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:32.582000+08:00","text":"我也支持跟倡議要繼續做，增加實驗的物種。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:32.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:39.712000+08:00","text":"我覺得這是兩個保護傘、兩道防線，一方面是監測含氚廢水排放物的科學檢測；另方面是自己來做養殖的實驗，可以有兩層防護，給國人更大的安心。","quality":0.383},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:39.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:40.712000+08:00","text":"下一期如果繼續做，我們也會增加物種，除了氚以外……","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:40.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:41.712000+08:00","text":"好，我會持續支持，也請主委持續來協力，好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:40.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:12.636000+08:00","text":"進行第二個主題，今天是非核家園上路340天，我沒有時間問到後面的一些問題，我只是想要澄清一點，很多在野黨的委員說核能很便宜，核能真的那麼便宜嗎？","quality":0.317},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:12.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:15.839000+08:00","text":"對主委剛剛的回答，我是大有意見！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:15.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:35.772000+08:00","text":"你是以它的發電收費來看，但對於核能的投資，對於工程設備的更新，尤其現在除役的核電廠要再啟用，還有要採購燃料棒，還有對它的賠償風險，你都不提！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:38.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:48.056000+08:00","text":"我們作為一個政策的倡議者，身為核安會的主委，你可以輕率的回答說：「對，核電比較安全！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:48.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:49.097000+08:00","text":"」我再給你一次機會，","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:55.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:55.355000+08:00","text":"核電不是零風險。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:57.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:13.584000+08:00","text":"所以風險是有代價的，風險也需要pay for it，你不能用核電發電一度一塊多，比其他燃煤還便宜，來簡化這個問題。","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:14.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:22.592000+08:00","text":"我舉具體的數字來說，你知道福島核電廠發生複合式的災害之後，日本政府投入多少錢賠償嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:25.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:05.940000+08:00","text":"我跟大家講，我跟公民社會講，福島核電廠發生不幸的災難事件，我們都不願意看到它發生，但日本政府光是投入的賠償金就已經10兆日圓，如果加上賠償金跟清理後續的廠區就花費了22兆日圓，這件事情還沒有結束，最終要解決善後整個福島核電所衍生的問題，花費可能會到35兆至80兆日圓，我取它的中間值大概是55兆日圓，等於11兆臺幣。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:05.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:19.198000+08:00","text":"光一個核電廠出現安全問題，他們投入11兆臺幣，現在還在收拾，這是我們臺灣4年的國家總預算，你告訴我核電很便宜！","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:20.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:25.023000+08:00","text":"你告訴我這些設備、設施風險的代價不用計算嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:27.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:29.967000+08:00","text":"主委，我實在不能接受！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:30.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:31.488000+08:00","text":"問題不能這樣的簡化！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:32.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:38.904000+08:00","text":"委員的垂詢會從某一個切點切入，可是我們看待政策是要全面的！","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:39.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:51.208000+08:00","text":"我剛剛舉日本的例子，我也可以舉美國的例子，跟核三廠類似的美國加州的魔鬼谷核電廠，你們應該常常會提到這個案例吧？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:53.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:12.058000+08:00","text":"對於整個攤提的成本、設備的更新、燃料的添購，如果把攤提算進去，它發的核電一度要到4塊臺幣，絕對不是簡單說核電發電一度一塊多，是廉價的，是便宜的。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:12.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:22.263000+08:00","text":"我認為我們講政策要講清楚、要講全面，委員只看到其一，你必須綜觀好嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:22.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:52.535000+08:00","text":"核電的風險跟安全的代價，國家要pay for it，臺灣人民要pay for it，這個事情我要在這裡正式的來澄清，說清楚，不要只看到核電的好處，而它的好處也不是只有比較便宜這一項，你遺漏了它可能造成的風險──安全是無價的，安全是無價的，安全是無價的！","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:53.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:08.282000+08:00","text":"即便如此，我們二次的能源轉型，我們要做的是能源的多元化，核電只是其一，核電不是唯一，核電還包括新式核能的開發，不是只有舊核電的老路。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:08.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:30.154000+08:00","text":"所以我肯定政府正在做能源多元化的整體評估，重啟核電要過了安全這一關，要有核廢可以解決的這一關，還有社會的共識要俱足，而核電只是其一，並非唯一，這是我在這裡要再次強調。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:31.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:36.217000+08:00","text":"我要澄清一件事情，我剛剛回答是根據台電的說法，這不是核安會的立場……","quality":0.433},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:37.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:40.687000+08:00","text":"那你的說法會被剪成影片去放，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:40.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:41.388000+08:00","text":"我剛剛說的全部是台電的數目，不是核安會的……","quality":0.368},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:45.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:54.630000+08:00","text":"因為主席站起來了，最後給您10秒鐘，核電真的是如此的廉價，不必要去思考它的安全風險嗎？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:54.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:55.951000+08:00","text":"您再回答一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:56.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:02.015000+08:00","text":"核安會現在關心的是核電的安全，經濟上是不是有效率，要由台電來評估，我剛剛的意思是這樣。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:02.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:03.456000+08:00","text":"發言請注意，發言請嚴謹，好嗎？好。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:03.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:04.537000+08:00","text":"繼續加油，辛苦了！謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:05.037000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:07.322714+08:00","text":"謝謝吳委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:07.622714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:10.194143+08:00","text":"下一位請吳沛憶委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}