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11:44:53","會議時間":"2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席就「我國海域放射性物質監測執行現況及未來因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查（一）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（二）委員葉元之等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。【僅進行詢答；第(三)案，如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長文斌","start":0.03096875,"end":0.43596875,"speaker_score":0.795},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":7.7428437500000005,"end":10.240343750000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長文斌","start":10.51034375,"end":11.337218750000002,"speaker_score":0.795},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":19.234718750000003,"end":20.399093750000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長文斌","start":20.399093750000002,"end":20.98971875,"speaker_score":0.795},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":20.51721875,"end":80.08596875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":80.64284375000001,"end":80.65971875000001,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":80.65971875000001,"end":80.69346875000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":80.69346875000001,"end":80.71034375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":80.71034375,"end":81.36846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":81.36846875,"end":82.48221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":82.48221875,"end":90.39659375000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":82.49909375,"end":83.73096875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高組長文斌","start":90.91971875,"end":91.30784375,"speaker_score":0.795},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":91.30784375,"end":149.13846875000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":149.49284375000002,"end":149.79659375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":149.96534375000002,"end":156.17534375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":156.32721875000001,"end":165.81096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":167.80221875,"end":169.00034375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":169.27034375000002,"end":250.25346875000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":250.70909375000002,"end":294.48284375000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":295.19159375000004,"end":296.28846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":297.01409375000003,"end":299.05596875000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":299.05596875000003,"end":299.25846875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":299.25846875,"end":299.27534375000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":299.83221875000004,"end":310.31159375000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":310.85159375,"end":338.81346875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":339.06659375000004,"end":350.18721875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":350.44034375,"end":351.21659375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":351.52034375,"end":355.55346875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":355.99221875,"end":378.40221875000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":379.16159375,"end":379.39784375000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":380.30909375000005,"end":381.15284375000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":381.74346875000003,"end":382.48596875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":382.77284375000005,"end":385.87784375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":386.40096875,"end":388.22346875000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":388.99971875,"end":409.75596875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":410.54909375000005,"end":413.75534375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":415.17284375,"end":417.53534375000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":417.92346875000004,"end":421.56846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員沛憶","start":421.75409375000004,"end":42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當時是戒嚴時期資訊封閉而且我們也沒有環評法規相關的程序所以可以說核三廠興建的時候其實是沒有公民參與機制的公民當時無法表達意見那也遠不如今天的程序完備那我們現在已經是民主化時代民主社會所以我們一定要進行充分的社會溝通你們也務必要把可能的影響要對大眾來進行說明"},{"start":65.385,"end":85.832,"text":"那我想請問一下因為剛剛主委有說這個說明會我們是全程網路直播嘛是的是 所以我覺得很好那場次呢因為你們舉辦時間是在平日上午其實有些民眾反映在上班不方便參加我們有沒有預計規劃其他場次我們主播會有四場總共會有四場好 這個資訊呢請你們務必在網路上面都要公開那我們這個說明會完的會議記錄會不會公開上網"},{"start":91.113,"end":114.774,"text":"會的也會公開上網很好我們要讓民眾能夠有實質的參與的機會跟管道那另外今天和安會的專報也有關於原子能法的修法因為有委員提案在討論事項當中那作為立法委員呢會法案把關都是我們的工作所以呢這個張委員有提案版本那比較不好意思但是因為這個對這個版本確實有些意見所以今天要提出來跟和安會討論"},{"start":116.375,"end":132.553,"text":"這個版本是趙偉宇、廖偉祥、蘇清泉、徐巧欣、林倩琴、林佩祥等19位委員所提的主要意見是在於它這個修法版本的第三條因為我們現行的版本是說原子能主管機關為原子能委員會"},{"start":133.274,"end":148.264,"text":"立屬行政院其組織以法律定制那現在委員的修法版本是把裡面要說第三條應該應設立二級原子能主管機關核能安全委員會那麼核安會我們目前是三級機關"},{"start":150.146,"end":165.598,"text":"那如果要修為二級機關這個方向其實我認為都可以討論但是如果是這個修法是修在原子能法我就比較有疑慮一點目前核安會是三級獨立機關這個是定在哪一條法裡面"},{"start":167.85,"end":182.478,"text":"所以河安會組織法對因為我們其實是有河安會的組織法我們有專屬的組織法就在第一條裡面裡面有明定說這個我們是相當中央的三級獨立機關那既然我們已經有專屬的組織法"},{"start":184.119,"end":200.066,"text":"如果真的要提升它從三級到二級的話要修應該也是修在組織法當中應該不是修在原子能法尤其是今天它是修法是希望定定為基本法這個方向那我看了一下因為有可能是像我們新住民的基本法"},{"start":200.506,"end":222.884,"text":"他的這個要三級行政機關就是定在新住民基本法當中這個在法的第四條但是新住民基本法跟這個原子能法它是完全不同為什麼因為新住民基本法訂定的時候是2024年7月三讀通過當時是甚至沒有新住民發展署的有基本法之後還沒有組織法但是我們現在和安會我們既有法也有組織"},{"start":224.105,"end":249.167,"text":"更有組織法所以如果真的是要來討論這個三級至二級的話要修應該也是要訂到組織法當中今天人事總署是不是也有來我有請人事總署那另外呢如果要真的要修這個法的話也是要配套修法因為也是正在叫我們叫文匯去年成立了運動部嘛我們新設運動部的時候當時不只是修了不只是提了運動組織法同時要修什麼要修中央行政機關組織"},{"start":251.168,"end":275.325,"text":"組織基準法與行政院組織法因為我們這個核安會他是他如果真的要提升這個級別的話這是牽涉到行政院整體的這個機關所以如果要修也是這兩個法都要配套來修所以第一個如果修了原子能法還是得要修這個核安會組織法嗎所以我就看不出來說為什麼要來修這個原子能法第二個"},{"start":275.905,"end":298.642,"text":"就算修了環衛組織法我們還是要配套修中央行政機關組織基準法跟行政院組織法這三個法通通都要修才有可能那如果說現在我們只修原子能法就要來把三級變到二級但是沒有去修中央行政機關組織基準法及行政院組織法的話這個在法與法之間會不會有所衝突這個主委可以回答嗎還是我們任總可不可以來協助回答"},{"start":300.015,"end":326.604,"text":"就是說倘若啦就是說河安會如果現在要把它變從三級變成二級機關的話沒有去修中央行政機關組織基準法跟行政組織法會不會有所衝突是報告委員那原則上我們的原則是說在作用法裡面其實盡量不要提到組涉跟能力的編制所以他這次的修法主要其實是在證明說他的主管機關是誰所以因為原則能"},{"start":327.784,"end":355.284,"text":"委員會的名稱已經改變所以提到這次的修法但是提到組織層級這個我們還是比較希望回到組織法跟行政院組織法或者相關的規範來做檢討以上好 謝謝對 所以如果說是三級要到二級我覺得可以討論但是這個修法應該是要來配套再來就是我也很關心的是因為現在這個趙偉這個版本裡面還有把獨立機關的獨立兩個字是把它拿掉的"},{"start":356.284,"end":378.16,"text":"這個我有很大的疑慮 為什麼因為核安會作為獨立機關是因為他這樣的職權是叫做監管核能安全這是我們主委剛剛一再強調也是你們今天報告當中所講的原子能法他所訂定的是原子能政策以及安全管制的根本法制基礎但今天如果你把獨立兩個字拿掉"},{"start":380.573,"end":409.093,"text":"這個未來看起來核安會它也有可能是成為一個推動機關而不只是監管機關我們讓它是獨立機關第一個最重要是我們希望核安會不受政治干擾依專業來自主決定應該核能安全就是要回歸專業但如果把獨立兩個字拿掉未來如果核安會變成還是推動機關不只是監管機關會造成非常非常大的問題"},{"start":410.632,"end":425.442,"text":"因為河岸會現在的定位其實是裁判推動機關叫做經濟部叫做台電如果把獨一兩個字拿掉未來河岸會還要去推動的話那變成裁判兼球員球員兼裁判"},{"start":427.628,"end":457.328,"text":"所以我有很大的疑慮那所以未來在討論這個修法的時候請大家務必要謹慎那最後呢是今天我們專案當中也有海域輻射監測這個我也很關切因為主要談論是寒川廢水嘛國際原子能總署最新發布的消息是日本從福島核電廠排放的第19批處理水它的寒川量是遠低於日本的排放限值那麼請何安慧協助說明這個訊息它代表什麼意思"},{"start":459.509,"end":485.187,"text":"报告委员那因为IEA都会针对日本每一批次的排放都会去取样那在这个因为他们也会去做分析那依照日本的一个排放限制是每一批次的那个稀释后的穿农度是要低于1500贝克每公升那他们的一个都分析完那依据我们过去的一个掌握日本大概每一批次大概是坐落到200到500之间"},{"start":487.308,"end":504.61,"text":"所以IEA才會說它的一個是遠低於日本的排放限值所以都是在標準內我看了一下歷來的資料這屬於常態但是我們核安會還是要持續的來監測不能放鬆警戒但是我要提醒為什麼會有寒川廢水"},{"start":505.851,"end":528.878,"text":"那就是因為福島當年核災發生之後它的第一核電廠它受損了嘛所以它為了要去維持它受損反應爐的安全它必須持續的一直去注入它的冷卻水把這個水注入到爐心因為要幫反應爐降溫對不對然後這個寒川水因為量實在太大了最後它只好往海域去排放"},{"start":531.069,"end":542.175,"text":"那為什麼要持續降溫因為現在的核燃料棒跟反應爐它是融在一起拿不出來我們現在還有多少的這個核燃料是殘留在福島的核儀廠團會有沒有資訊"},{"start":546.564,"end":570.614,"text":"一共現在還有880噸 這是日本的資料因為1號機 2號機 3號機 三部機組因為爐心受損 燃料目前還取不出來因為它們融在一起 所以目前在裡面的還有880噸2024年的時候日本首次取出燃料碎片 取出了多少 取出了3克"},{"start":572.025,"end":581.522,"text":"在裡面880噸 核栽之後 核栽就沒事了880噸 現在椰子取出了3克為什麼 因為它融在一起了所以這是一個非常龐大複雜的問題"},{"start":584.133,"end":605.126,"text":"所以我要再次來提醒有關於核能的使用每一個決策它的影響都甚大甚久遠目前這個寒川廢水日本往海域排放還要排放多少年沒有人知道它的這個核燃料殘存在輔導廠裡面的還要多少年才有辦法完全取出沒有人知道"},{"start":605.766,"end":627.527,"text":"所以呢 我們務必 核安會是核能安全的主管機關要拜託你們 務必要謹慎的為國人來把關我們核能使用的安全好不好 主委 這是你們重大的責任有關於台灣的下一個50年 下一個100年就在我們核安會 你們謹慎的把關當中請務必秉持專業好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.762000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.962000+08:00","text":"我請核安會陳主委。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:29.162000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:29.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:29.362000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:29.362000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:30.362000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:29.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:15.138000+08:00","text":"4月28日上午10點，核安會要在屏東舉辦「核安會審查核三廠運轉執照換發案」的地方說明會，這一個說明會非常重要，因為核三廠興建的時候是在我還沒有出生的1978年，當時是戒嚴時期，資訊封閉，而且我們也沒有環評法規相關的程序，所以核三廠興建的時候，其實是沒有公民參與機制的，公民當時無法表達意見，也遠不如今天的程序完備。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:15.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:23.803000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經是民主化時代、民主社會，所以我們一定要進行充分的社會溝通，你們也務必要把可能的影響對大眾來進行說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:27.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:31.487000+08:00","text":"因為主委剛剛說這個說明會是全程網路直播？是的。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:32.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:33.908000+08:00","text":"我覺得很好，場次呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:34.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:40.850000+08:00","text":"因為我們舉辦的時間是在平日上午，有些民眾反映在上班不方便參加，我們有沒有預計規劃其他場次？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:41.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:44.772000+08:00","text":"我們總共會有四場說明會。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:45.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:45.992000+08:00","text":"總共會有四場，這個資訊，請你們務必要在網路上面公開。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:46.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:52.113000+08:00","text":"這個說明會的會議紀錄會不會公開上網？會的。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:52.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:53.594000+08:00","text":"也會公開上網，很好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:53.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:57.438000+08:00","text":"我們要讓民眾能夠有實質參與的機會跟管道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:58.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:04.984000+08:00","text":"另外，今天核安會的專報也有關於原子能法的修法，因為有委員在討論事項當中提案。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:05.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:15.774000+08:00","text":"作為立法委員為法案把關是我們的工作；不好意思因為對召委的這個提案版本，確實有些意見，所以今天要提出來跟核安會討論。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:17.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:24.603000+08:00","text":"這個版本是召委與廖偉翔、蘇清泉、徐巧芯、林倩綺、林沛祥等19位委員所提的。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:25.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:37.196000+08:00","text":"我主要的意見在於修法版本的第三條，因為現行條文是原子能主管機關為原子能委員會，隸屬行政院，其組織以法律定之。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:38.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:02.154000+08:00","text":"委員的修法版本現在是把第三條改為「應設立二級原子能主管機關核能安全委員會」，核安會目前是三級機關，如果要修正為二級機關，我認為這個方向都可以討論，但如果這個修法是修原子能法，我就比較有疑慮。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:02.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:06.578000+08:00","text":"目前核安會是三級獨立機關，這個是訂在哪一條法裡面？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:09.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:09.691000+08:00","text":"是核安會組織法。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:10.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:36.484000+08:00","text":"對，我們其實是有核安會專屬的組織法，就在第一條裡面明定，核安會相當中央的三級獨立機關；既然我們已經有專屬的組織法，如果真要將它從三級提升到二級，也應該是在組織法當中修法，而不是在原子能法裡面修法；尤其今天修法，是希望訂定為基本法的這個方向。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:37.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:52.055000+08:00","text":"我看了一下，像我們的新住民基本法，它的這個三級行政機關就是訂在新住民基本法當中，在該法的第四條，但新住民基本法跟原子能法完全不同，為什麼？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:52.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:38:00.842000+08:00","text":"因為新住民基本法是2024年7月三讀通過的，當時甚至沒有新住民發展署，有基本法的時候還沒有組織法。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:38:01.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:38:15.674000+08:00","text":"但是現在核安會有法，有組織，更有組織法，如果真要來修訂三級升至二級的話，也應該是在組織法當中訂定，今天人事總處是不是也有人來，我再請教人事總處。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:38:16.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:38:46.958000+08:00","text":"另外，如果真的要修這個法，也是要配套修法，因為我們去年成立運動部，在新設運動部的時候，不只是提了運動組織法，同時要修中央行政機關組織基準法與行政院組織法，因為核安會如果真要提升這個級別的話，會牽涉到行政院整體機關，如果要修，這兩個法也都要配套來修。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:38:47.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:38:56.205000+08:00","text":"所以，第一個如果修了原子能法，還是得要修核安會組織法，我看不出來為什麼是來修原子能法。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:38:56.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:39:15.379000+08:00","text":"第二個，就算修了核安會組織法，我們還是要配套修中央行政機關組織基準法跟行政院組織法，這三個法統統都要修才有可能；如果現在只修原子能法，把它從三級變到二級，但是沒有去修中央行政機關組織基準法及行政院組織法的話，在法與法之間會不會有所衝突？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:39:16.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:39:18.181000+08:00","text":"這個主委可以回答嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:39:18.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:39:19.622000+08:00","text":"還是人總可以來協助回答？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:39:21.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:39:31.138000+08:00","text":"倘若現在要把核安會從三級機關變成二級機關的話，沒有去修中央行政機關組織基準法跟行政院組織法會不會有所衝突？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":"2026-04-22T11:39:32.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:40:00.312000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們的原則是在作用法裡面，儘量不要提到組設跟人力的編制，這次的修法主要是在證明說它的主管機關是誰，因為原子能委員會的名稱已經改變，所以提到這次修法；但若提到組織層級的部分，我們還是比較希望回到組織法，跟行政院組織法或者相關的規範來做檢討。以上。謝謝。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:40:00.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:40:05.776000+08:00","text":"所以如果是三級要到二級，我覺得可以討論，但這個修法應該要配套來修。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:40:06.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:40:37.098000+08:00","text":"再來，我也很關心的是，召委的版本裡面把獨立機關的「獨立」兩個字拿掉，這個部分我有很大的疑慮，因為核安會作為獨立機關，是因為它最重要的職權是監管核能安全，這是主委剛剛一再強調的，也是你們今天報告當中所講的原子能法，所訂定的是原子能政策以及安全管制的根本法制基礎。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:40:37.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:40:50.079000+08:00","text":"今天如果把獨立兩個字拿掉，未來核安會也有可能成為一個推動機關，不只是監管機關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:40:50.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:41:10.093000+08:00","text":"我們讓它是獨立機關，最重要的一點是我們希望核安會不受政治干擾，依專業來自主決定，核能安全就是要回歸專業；但如果把獨立兩個字拿掉，未來如果核安會變成推動機關，還不只是監管機關，這會造成非常、非常大的問題。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:41:11.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:41:30.429000+08:00","text":"因為核安會現在的定位，其實是裁判，推動機關叫做經濟部、叫做台電，如果把獨立兩個字拿掉，未來核安會還要去推動的話，就會變成裁判兼球員、球員兼裁判，所以我有很大的疑慮。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:41:30.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:41:34.352000+08:00","text":"未來在討論這個修法的時候，請大家務必要謹慎。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:41:34.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:41:39.976000+08:00","text":"最後，今天的專案報告當中也有海域輻射監測的部分，主要談論的是含氚廢水，我也很關切。","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:41:42.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:41:50.222000+08:00","text":"國際原子能總署最新發布的消息是日本從福島核電廠排放的第十九批處理水，它的含氚量遠低於日本的排放限值，能不能請核安會協助說明，這個訊息代表什麼意思？","quality":0.478},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T11:41:50.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:42:34.796000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為IAEA針對日本每一批次的排放都會去取樣，他們也會去做分析，依照日本的排放限值是每一批次稀釋後的氚濃度要要低於1500貝克（Bq/L），他們都分析完，依據我們過去的掌握，日本每一批次大概是落到200到500之間，所以IAEA才會說它的含氚量是遠低於日本的排放限值。","quality":0.101},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:42:34.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:42:35.777000+08:00","text":"好，所以都在標準內。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:42:35.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:42:42.506000+08:00","text":"我看了一下歷來的資料，這屬於常態，我們核安會還是要持續的來監測，不能放鬆警戒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:42:42.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:42:45.590000+08:00","text":"但我要提醒的是，為什麼會有含氚廢水？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:42:47.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:09.858000+08:00","text":"是因為福島當年核災發生之後，它的第一核電廠受損了，為了要維持受損反應爐的安全，他們必須一直持續去注入它的冷卻水，把這個水注入到爐心，因為要幫反應爐降溫，但這個含氚水的量實在太大了，最後只好往海域去排放。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:12.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:13.730000+08:00","text":"為什麼要持續降溫？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:13.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:18.473000+08:00","text":"因為現在的核燃料棒跟反應爐融在一起，拿不出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:18.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:23.175000+08:00","text":"現在還有多少的核燃料殘留在福島的核一廠，核安會有沒有資訊？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:28.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:31.145000+08:00","text":"在日本的資料，一共還有880噸。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"高組長文斌","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:32.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:39.109000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，因為一號機、二號機、三號機，三部機組爐心受損，燃料目前……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:39.109000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:40.109000+08:00","text":"取不出來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高組長文斌","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:39.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:41.029000+08:00","text":"對，取不出來。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:41.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:46.492000+08:00","text":"因為它們融在一起，所以目前在裡面的還有880噸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:46.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:54.788000+08:00","text":"2024年的時候，日本首次取出燃料碎片，取出了3克，在裡面還有880噸。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:54.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:43:59.917000+08:00","text":"核災之後，不是核災就沒事了，裡面還有880噸，現在也只取出了3克，為什麼？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:43:59.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:00.859000+08:00","text":"因為它融在一起了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:01.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:19.302000+08:00","text":"這是一個非常龐大複雜的問題，所以我要再次提醒，有關於核能的使用，每一個決策，它的影響都甚大、甚久遠，目前這個含氚廢水，日本往海域排放還要排放多少年，沒有人知道。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:19.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:26.106000+08:00","text":"它的核燃料殘存在福島廠裡面的，還要多少年才有辦法完全取出，沒人知道。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:28.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:38.317000+08:00","text":"核安會是核能安全的主管機關，務必要謹慎的為國人來把關我們核能使用的安全。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:38.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:47.626000+08:00","text":"主委，這是你們重大的責任，有關於臺灣的下一個五十年、下一個一百年，就在我們核安會謹慎的把關當中，請務必秉持專業。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"吳委員沛憶","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:47.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:48.066000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:48.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:44:48.327000+08:00","text":"是的，謝謝委員。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:44:48.827000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:45:00.541286+08:00","text":"謝謝吳委員的詢答，也感謝吳委員提供的意見，加入一起討論，未來我們一起努力，朝野一起合作。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:45:00.841286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:45:03.984143+08:00","text":"下一位請伍麗華委員詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}