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我們都知道但是呢 現在法規我們要幫你修正嘛你的立場是什麼 可有可無 還是支持我們原來是配合行政院的主改規劃對嘛 主改規劃已經幫你改名了嘛但是法規上還沒有跟進嘛"},{"start":208.965,"end":236.006,"text":"涉及行政院的這個組織法等等我想主委我在問你到底是可有可無還是競表支持啊這部分您覺得呢當然感謝委員關心主委您的回應真的是非常的好不愧是我的學長立法院的回應都非常的四平八穩"},{"start":237.588,"end":259.668,"text":"但是我想我們都還是希望今天不會無緣無故幫你修法一定是有其必要性那另外我想請教一下人事行政總署在人總今天的報告中提及 河岸會業務性性質偏重於專業導向的一個監督機制與相當二級機關"},{"start":265.226,"end":290.754,"text":"通常會公平會中選會偏重於廣納社會多元的價值有別所以以維持現行組織層級的運作請問任總你自己也講核安會的業務性質偏重於專業導向的監督機制現在核能在全世界都那麼重要加上核電又要重啟那麼重要的一個單位難道任總反對核安會回到原來的行政院二級機關嗎是這樣嗎"},{"start":294.209,"end":316.781,"text":"報告趙偉原則上我們是因應他在1、2年的時候進行促改所以他在從原子能輪會改變成核安會的當下其實有進行一些組織上的調整那當時候的原額其實也都是照現行的規模處理和給所以在相關的人力規模上其實並沒有去做其他的刪減"},{"start":317.802,"end":334.501,"text":"那另外一個部分是因為我們是在看說他的那個組織性的部分是因為他現在都是跟過去原子能委員會的職能上有做一些變化所以他現在是完全是一個監管的單位所以他的職能上維持在監管的層級上"},{"start":336.463,"end":361.294,"text":"改變成為獨立機關的性質那維持三級總歸原來就是你今天報告都有寫嘛你覺得就是維持現行嘛那所以你反對回到原來的二級機關是吧我們是建議還是維持啦我想如果二級單位員額滿的話我倒是建議人總可以降為三級啊三級機關也可以做公務人員的人力管理啦應該也沒什麼影響"},{"start":362.674,"end":382.989,"text":"但我基本上我還是希望每個單位的立場說明白沒關係我們都尊重但我們的立場就是希望既然核能重啟既然核能的安全我們要予以重視能夠幫你列為二級機關是希望說在這個業務上的跨局處跨部會的一個協調能夠更為順暢"},{"start":385.091,"end":402.46,"text":"阿當然你也說啦37萬你也順暢啦我尊重你的說法啦好那但是我們還是希望我們的立場各自說清楚好主委今天就繼續我們河岸會的赴日實地觀察第六次的報告來請教主委請問主委上次我在業務中有提到"},{"start":403.482,"end":423.791,"text":"在日本土壤的採集問題啊你們說因為日本土壤都有專屬的儲存設施進行管制那今天就繼續這個問題來跟你請教首先我有收到何安會給我的回覆請問國際原子能總署於2025年2月視察寒川廢水排放的作業時也有對於土壤的儲存設施進行視察"},{"start":425.692,"end":452.712,"text":"但並無提出土壤取樣的評估作業請問主委國際原子能總署對土壤沒有要求我們就不需要主動規劃土壤監測跟取樣嗎人家沒有做我們也不要做這樣的風險評估你不覺得很被動嗎報告委員我們現在政府的規定國外的土壤是不允許進口的"},{"start":454.461,"end":480.896,"text":"就詳細我們再請張主任再做詳細報告報告委員因為目前那個日本是還沒有正式釋出這個土壤的一個在地用所以我們去看的時候應該是先掌握他們的初步的一個規劃跟想法那我相信IAEA也國際專家也是這樣的一個想法所以"},{"start":482.017,"end":495.706,"text":"究竟之後真的他們去做土壤的一個一個外試使用到底他使用的面向是在哪裡對國人有沒有一些健康的一個風險我相信這邊都應該我們都荷蘭會都還是未來持續的一個掌握然後來評估"},{"start":501.61,"end":516.78,"text":"那以現在目前的一個階段而言因為他那個土壤是在管制的一個儲存設施所以在跟委員報告以目前為止我們大概是不會有一個取樣的這一些規劃"},{"start":518.701,"end":538.948,"text":"為什麼我會對土壤這麼有興趣我們來探討一下我先請問既然土壤設有這一個日本的土壤儲存設施進一步請教河岸會在復日是否會有實地了解這些儲存設施對地下水是否造成影響是否滲漏擴散長期污染的一個風險評估"},{"start":541.905,"end":556.338,"text":"也包括委員那因為這些土壤他們放到這個中期儲存其實在我們的國際就是我們的一個審查我們都是用國際的一個IEA的審查它還是屬於放射性的一個污染物"},{"start":557.038,"end":581.914,"text":"所以在国际的规范里头第一个当然要有完善的处理就我们知道日本的土它下面会有一些隔水的一个然后最下面会有黏土那中间旁边其实它这些雨水下落其实它有回收的机制所以它就是有一个储存设施去做隔离我知道可是进一步我们要来谈的就是"},{"start":582.734,"end":607.038,"text":"日本目前政策是將低輻射受污染的土壤再利用在道路在防潮堤海岸防災林填海公共工程喔我要請問主委這些再利用土壤是否可能會影響鄰近的栽培食用農作物的土壤這是我們關心的啊"},{"start":608.629,"end":622.181,"text":"我知道嘛高污染的一定會做一個隔離嘛但低輻射污染我們也要監測啊我的態度很清楚有人說啊中國的核廢水排放我一樣要監測啊"},{"start":624.369,"end":650.413,"text":"只要任何影響到國人的飲食健康影響到我們未來甚至是孩童的飲食我一律都反對我一律都要求一定要嚴格審查所以剛剛我講的很清楚嘛為什麼我們關心土壤你說高汙染的他有儲存設施低汙染的他拿出來利用啦填海等公共工程我們是不是應該多關心一下這個議題不是只有寒川廢水"},{"start":652.042,"end":674.609,"text":"那有委員提到中國核廢水也要關心啊 我支持那現在我講的 低污染的這一個土壤來做公共工程了 主委它也有可能影響啊 我們是不是要關心是 我們一直在關心 只是他們土壤目前還沒有外施對不起 您剛剛講什麼 再講一次一直在關心下一句是什麼還沒有釋放出來"},{"start":679.028,"end":705.692,"text":"還沒有釋放出來對 他只是試點 有一些試點你說他的這個公共工程有幾個示範點是嗎在研究之中 還沒有正式釋放對嘛 他有打算這樣做嘛對吧他有這個 往這方面想有想我們就要來開始關心了啊對不對我們也有依舊關心預防勝於治療啊"},{"start":707.148,"end":715.131,"text":"你不能等他做了你才要來關心啊對不對我們要看到更超前超前部署嘛好不好"},{"start":716.218,"end":739.959,"text":"謝謝委員所以進一步了解地下水具有流動性是否存在地下水的傳輸輻射物質的二次擴散相關的風險有沒有充分的被我們給關注到去做評估嗎我想植物生長仰賴水土壤空氣三個基本的要素但根據食藥署公佈的資料日本五縣地區的食品監測和格率"},{"start":741.761,"end":761.56,"text":"從2021年的99.7到2023年99.5到2024年的前5個月99.1坦白講是呈現下降的趨勢請問主委這樣的變化是否可能跟環境中水土壤空氣的污染變化存在著關聯呢我們有沒有進一步的分析其因果的關係"},{"start":763.868,"end":785.195,"text":"那報告委員那因為那個衛福部其實是福島100年事故開始其實就都在做這個的一個邊境的一個查驗所以他的一個污染的一個來源是因為事故當下其實造成的一個污染的一個土壤所造成的所以也就像委員講的這個是長期的那"},{"start":786.156,"end":799.074,"text":"衛福部都有在這塊關心那剛剛講的這些污染在這十年中其實污染的土壤已經都被日本政府一一的收到剛剛我們講的那個中期儲存所以整體來講未來的這個土壤"},{"start":801.778,"end":821.915,"text":"他的一個一個在利用的一個使用其實都會在安全的標準而且現在日本也還沒有去做這一方面的一個推動所以在這一邊那個衛福部的邊境查驗也相信他們的一個合格這個都是會合格的對民眾的安全這都是我們很關心的啦那再來"},{"start":822.635,"end":849.748,"text":"報告也提及日本對低輻射污染土壤採取再利用的政策像我剛剛講的防潮堤防災林 填土我想這個部分我們都希望填海等公共設施是整個將作為整個填土或沖田的一個材料對於超過安全標準屬於高污染的一個土壤日本是如何處理長期的一個儲存最終的處置還有它的去化的機制它的標準"},{"start":850.228,"end":871.781,"text":"管理的措施為何我們都很關心也希望後面能夠提供這部分你們能夠關注然後提供這個資料給我們那報告第12頁也指出啊日本採取的是核燃料循環的政策也就是透過在處理用過的核子燃料中的可裂變物質啊達到在利用的一個核燃料資源"},{"start":872.982,"end":891.068,"text":"減少高放射性的廢棄物體積確保核能長期可以持續的利用以及能源的一個安全目標請問核安會如何評估核燃料循環的一個政策在台灣的可行性目前核安會整體評估結論為何有沒有什麼規劃"},{"start":893.22,"end":913.575,"text":"目前還在研究之中國研院也有做這方面的研究有研究確定是有研究有研究就好但是我們希望降低高放射線的我們希望後續能夠拿到一些相關資料可以提供嗎可以"},{"start":914.898,"end":930.739,"text":"這個部分我們希望台灣應該做得比日本更嚴謹因為乾式儲存的一個設施日本是使用金屬互相台灣是使用混凝土的一個互相系統所以在報告的第23頁提及日本對於台灣混凝土"},{"start":931.84,"end":955.452,"text":"這個所謂的互相系統安全監測以及因應他的腐蝕防範的議題被感興趣這代表台灣在乾式儲存的一個互相設計跟長期的一個監測規劃上某些做法已經走在日本的前面而日方也說要向台灣來取經這代表一件事情台灣不是做不到高標準和安跟和廢的一個管理"},{"start":956.292,"end":979.383,"text":"所以核安會更有責任把這些專業的成果風險的評估以及未來的用過的核燃料管理的一個整體路徑清楚的跟社會大眾說明最後我有一個議題我今天就提但不讓你回答了因為時間有限我想牙醫師全聯會在3月9日有拜會核安會討論兩個議題"},{"start":982.418,"end":991.695,"text":"分別是移動式的牙科X光機牙科的科間X光機必須設置在獨立的X光室"},{"start":992.895,"end":1021.741,"text":"我想這個議題主委我希望能夠重視我們也很重視牙醫全聯會他們的一個訴求很多偏鄉沒有牙醫今天朝偉他們也是在偏鄉在努力我想比如台東縣東和鄉就是其中一個無牙醫的一個鄉鎮所以就只能藉由行動牙科的方式去偏鄉看診然而卻面臨沒有攜帶式X光劑無法做牙根管"},{"start":1022.947,"end":1050.647,"text":"以及拔牙等進一步的治療這些都是現階段遇到的問題偏鄉行動的牙科高齡患者所面臨到的一個現行規範的一個障礙河岸會是否承諾已經造成實際的醫療不平等河岸會的風險評估有沒有辦法把醫療可靜性不足的本身作為一個公共健康風險納入考量就這兩個議題有沒有收集國際的指引更務實的做法"},{"start":1052.349,"end":1056.021,"text":"這個會後麻煩你給我資料我希望你要正視這個問題"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:04.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:06.059000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請主委。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:07.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:08.360000+08:00","text":"請核安會主委，謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:15.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:15.749000+08:00","text":"主委辛苦了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:15.749000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:16.749000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:16.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:26.016000+08:00","text":"主委，先跟您確認一下，上次您有答應我，我們可以爭取科普展在臺中，可以嗎？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:26.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:26.156000+08:00","text":"可以、可以。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:26.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:28.321000+08:00","text":"下半年？可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:28.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:32.044000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候，可不可以跟大家分享？12月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:32.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:33.646000+08:00","text":"12月左右。對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:34.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:56:39.371000+08:00","text":"我想這是對中部地區長期推動科學教育的一大鼓勵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:56:39.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:57:03.872000+08:00","text":"我也想建議國科會、臺中市政府跟在地的研究單位能夠密切合作，甚至有需要我們協調的，例如結合捷運站的導覽、科博館的主題展區等等，適合把它設計到整個國小到高中不同年齡層的路線跟活動，讓親子、學生以及一般市民都能夠找到自己適合的參與方式。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:57:04.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:57:10.938000+08:00","text":"如果有需要協助的話，本席也願意全力來幫忙，這個部分是不是大家一起來努力？是的。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:57:11.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:57:27.226000+08:00","text":"今天排審原子能法修正案，報告裡面提到依「行政院功能業務與組織調整條例」第三條，只要行政院完成公告組改，整個機關的管轄權就已經完備。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:57:27.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:57:42.763000+08:00","text":"也就是說，行政程序上，行政院原子能委員會改制為核能安全委員會其實已經生效運作，立法院只是將相關條文中的名稱一併修正為核能安全委員會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:57:42.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:02.130000+08:00","text":"但是我想比較能夠跟你請教的，這一次核能安全委員會的報告中，關於將原子能委員會改成核能安全委員會，上面寫「敬表尊重」。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:03.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:07.492000+08:00","text":"請教主委，這句「敬表尊重」的意思是什麼？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:07.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:09.733000+08:00","text":"對核安會來說，是不是沒關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:12.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:19.593000+08:00","text":"維持條文原本的原子能委員會，對核安會來說，是不是也覺得都可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:21.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:25.254000+08:00","text":"可不可以展現一下立場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:25.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:33.957000+08:00","text":"現在核安會實際運作方面並沒有什麼困難。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:33.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:38.198000+08:00","text":"對啊，沒有什麼困難，所以可有可無，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:38.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:38.498000+08:00","text":"您覺得？這是……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:42.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:50.479000+08:00","text":"實際的運作不會有困難，我們都知道，但是現在法規我們要幫你修正，你的立場是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:50.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:54.080000+08:00","text":"可有可無，還是支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:54.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:58:59.242000+08:00","text":"我們是配合行政院的組改規劃。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:58:59.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:07.186000+08:00","text":"對嘛，組改規劃，已經幫你改名了，但是法規上還沒有跟進嘛。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:07.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:12.188000+08:00","text":"因為這涉及行政院的組織法等等。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:14.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:18.333000+08:00","text":"主委，我在問你到底是可有可無，還是「敬表支持」？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:19.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:20.275000+08:00","text":"您覺得呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:22.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:23.637000+08:00","text":"當然感謝委員關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:26.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:35.006000+08:00","text":"主委，您的回應真的是非常的好，不愧是我的學長，在立法院的回應都非常四平八穩。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:36.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:45.236000+08:00","text":"但是我想我們都還是希望今天不會無緣無故幫你修法，一定是有其必要性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:46.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:59:49.680000+08:00","text":"另外，我想請教人事行政總處。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T11:59:52.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:00:13.029000+08:00","text":"在人總今天的報告中提及核安會業務性質偏重於專業導向的監督機制，與相當二級機關通傳會、公平會、中選會偏重於廣納社會多元的價值有別，所以宜維持現行組織層級的運作。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:00:13.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:00:29.734000+08:00","text":"請問人總，你自己也講核安會業務性質偏重於專業導向的監督機制，現在核能在全世界都那麼重要，加上核電又要重啟，那麼重要的一個單位，難道人總反對核安會回到原來的行政院二級機關嗎？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:00:29.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:00:29.754000+08:00","text":"是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":"2026-04-22T12:00:33.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:00:55.781000+08:00","text":"報告召委，原則上我們是因應它在112年的時候進行組改，在從原子能委員會變成核安會的當下，其實有進行一些組織上的調整；當時的員額也都是照現行規模足予核給，在相關的人力規模上並沒有刪減。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":"2026-04-22T12:00:56.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:01:20.705000+08:00","text":"另外，我們在看它的組織性部分，因為它現在跟過去原子能委員會的職能上有一些變化，現在完全是一個監管的單位，所以職能維持在監管的層級上，改變成獨立機關的性質，維持三級還是我們的……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:01:20.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:01:23.667000+08:00","text":"所以你今天報告都有寫嘛，你覺得就是維持現行嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:01:24.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:01:27.729000+08:00","text":"所以你反對回到原來的二級機關，是吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖專門委員鎮文","start":"2026-04-22T12:01:28.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:01:29.550000+08:00","text":"我們是建議還是維持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:01:31.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:01:40.294000+08:00","text":"如果二級單位員額滿的話，我倒是建議人總可以降為三級，三級機關也可以做公務人員的人力管理，應該也沒什麼影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:01:41.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:01:48.079000+08:00","text":"但我基本上還是希望每個單位的立場說明白沒關係，我們都尊重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:01:49.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:02:01.989000+08:00","text":"我們的立場就是希望既然核能重啟，核能的安全要予以重視，能夠幫你列為二級機關，是希望在業務上跨局處、跨部會的協調能夠更為順暢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:02:04.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:02:11.675000+08:00","text":"當然你也說了，三級機關也順暢，我尊重你的說法，但還是希望我們的立場各自說清楚。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:02:12.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:02:18.198000+08:00","text":"主委，今天繼續就核安會赴日實地觀察第六次的報告來請教主委。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:02:18.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:02:31.186000+08:00","text":"請問主委，上次我在業務報告中有提到在日本土壤的採集問題，你們說因為日本土壤都有專屬的貯存設施進行管制，今天就繼續來跟你請教這個問題。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:02:31.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:02:48.235000+08:00","text":"首先，我有收到核安會給我的回復，國際原子能總署於2025年2月視察含氚廢水排放的作業時，也有對於土壤的貯存設施進行視察，但並無提出土壤取樣的評估作業。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:02:48.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:02:55.660000+08:00","text":"請問主委，國際原子能總署對土壤沒有要求，我們就不需要主動規劃土壤監測跟取樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:02:55.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:03:00.744000+08:00","text":"人家沒有做，我們也不要做，這樣的風險評估，你不覺得很被動嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:03:00.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:03:17.223000+08:00","text":"報告委員，現在政府的規定，國外的土壤是不允許進口的，詳細情形請張組長再做詳細報告。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T12:03:18.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:03:39.516000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為目前日本還沒有正式釋出土壤的再利用，所以我們去看的時候，應該是先掌握他們初步的規劃跟想法，我相信IAEA國際專家也是這樣的想法。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T12:03:41.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:03:54.686000+08:00","text":"究竟之後他們真的去做土壤的外釋使用，到底使用的面向是在哪裡，對國人有沒有健康的風險，我相信核安會都還是會持續的掌握，然後來評估。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T12:04:00.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:04:15.780000+08:00","text":"以目前的階段而言，因為那個土壤是在管制的貯存設施，所以跟委員報告，以目前為止，我們大概不會有取樣的規劃。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:04:17.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:04:19.102000+08:00","text":"為什麼我會對土壤這麼有興趣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:04:19.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:04:20.202000+08:00","text":"我們來探討一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:04:20.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:04:37.928000+08:00","text":"我先請問，既然日本設有土壤貯存設施，進一步請教，核安會赴日是否會實地了解這些貯存設施對地下水是否造成影響，是否有滲漏、擴散、長期污染的風險評估？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T12:04:40.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.550000+08:00","text":"也報告委員，這些土壤放到中期貯存，其實我們都是用國際IAEA的標準審查，它還是屬於放射性的污染物，所以在國際規範裡，第一個當然要有完善的處理，就我們知道，日本的這些土下面會有一些隔水的設施，然後最下面會有黏土，中間、旁邊的部分，這些雨水下漏其實它有回收的機制","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:35.187000+08:00","text":"就是有一個貯存設施去做隔離嘛，我知道，可是我們進一步要來談的就是日本目前政策是將低輻射受污染的土壤再利用，用在道路、防潮堤、海岸防災林、填海等公共工程。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:36.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:43.355000+08:00","text":"我要請問主委，這些再利用土壤是否可能影響鄰近栽培食用農作物的土壤？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:45.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:46.018000+08:00","text":"這是我們關心的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:47.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:53.594000+08:00","text":"我知道高污染的一定會做一個隔離，但低輻射污染的部分，我們也要監測啊！","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:54.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:01.161000+08:00","text":"我的態度很清楚，有人提到中國的核廢水排放，我一樣要監測啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:03.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:14.459000+08:00","text":"只要任何影響到國人的飲食健康、影響到我們未來甚至是孩童的飲食，我一律都反對，我一律都要求一定要嚴格審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:15.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:18.262000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛我講得很清楚嘛，為什麼我們關心土壤？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:19.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:29.393000+08:00","text":"你說高污染的有貯存設施，低污染的部分，他也拿出來利用於填海等公共工程，我們是不是應該多關心一下這個議題，不是只有含氚廢水。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:31.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:35.183000+08:00","text":"有委員提到中國核廢水，這也要關心，我支持。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:35.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:43.346000+08:00","text":"現在我講的低污染土壤用於公共工程了，主委，它也有可能影響，我們是不是要關心？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:44.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:45.767000+08:00","text":"是，我們一直在關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:46.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:48.087000+08:00","text":"他們土壤目前還沒有外釋……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:49.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:50.928000+08:00","text":"對不起，您剛剛講什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:50.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:51.228000+08:00","text":"再講一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:51.228000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:52.228000+08:00","text":"日本那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:52.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:53.349000+08:00","text":"「一直在關心」的下一句是什麼？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:53.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:53.609000+08:00","text":"還沒有釋放出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:58.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:59.650000+08:00","text":"它還沒有釋放出來？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:59.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:03.953000+08:00","text":"對，他只是有一些試點來……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:03.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:07.797000+08:00","text":"你說他的這個公共工程有幾個示範點，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:07.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:10.039000+08:00","text":"在研究之中，還沒有正式釋放。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:10.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:13.442000+08:00","text":"對嘛，他有打算這樣做嘛，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:14.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:16.504000+08:00","text":"他有往這方面想。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:17.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:21.168000+08:00","text":"他有想，我們就要開始關心了，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:21.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:22.510000+08:00","text":"我們也一直有關心。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:23.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:24.672000+08:00","text":"預防勝於治療啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:26.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:30.320000+08:00","text":"你不能等他做了，你才要來關心，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:30.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:34.111000+08:00","text":"我們要看到更超前、超前部署嘛，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:35.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:35.738000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:37.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:48.049000+08:00","text":"地下水具有流動性，所以要進一步了解是否存在地下水的傳輸、輻射物質的二次擴散等相關的風險有沒有充分的被我們關注到去做評估。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:49.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:16.436000+08:00","text":"植物生長仰賴水、土壤、空氣三個基本的要素，但根據食藥署公布的資料，日本五縣地區的食品監測合格率從2021年的99.7%到2023年99.5%、到2024年的前五個月99.1%，坦白講是呈現下降的趨勢，請問主委，這樣的變化是否可能跟環境中的水、土壤、空氣的污染變化存在著關聯？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:17.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:20.560000+08:00","text":"我們有沒有進一步的分析其因果關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:23.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:46.838000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為衛福部自福島100年事故開始，其實就都在做邊境的查驗，所以它的污染來源是因為事故當下造成土壤污染所造成的，也就像委員講的，這個是長期的，衛福部都有在關心這一塊。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張組長淑君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:48.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:19.213000+08:00","text":"至於剛剛講的這些污染，在這十年中，其實污染的土壤已經都被日本政府一一地收到剛剛我們講的那個中期貯存場，所以整體來講，未來土壤的再利用其實都會在安全的標準下，而且現在日本也還沒有去做這一方面的推動，相信衛福部的邊境查驗都會是合格的，對於民眾的安全……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:19.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:20.274000+08:00","text":"這都是我們很關心的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:20.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:44.006000+08:00","text":"再者，報告也提及日本對低輻射污染土壤採取再利用的政策，像我剛剛講的防潮堤、防災林、填土，就這個部分，用在填海等公共設施是作為整個填土或充填的材料，對於超過安全標準、屬於高污染的土壤部分，日本是如何處理？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:44.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:57.053000+08:00","text":"長期的貯存、最終的處置還有它的去化機制、其標準管理的措施為何，我們都很關心，也希望後續你們能夠關注，然後提供這個資料給我們。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:57.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:21.525000+08:00","text":"報告第12頁也指出日本採取的是核燃料循環政策，也就是透過再處理用過的核子燃料中的可裂變物質達到再利用的一個核燃料資源，減少高放射性的廢棄物體積，確保核能長期可以持續的利用以及能源安全的目標。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:21.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:26.647000+08:00","text":"請問核安會，如何評估核燃料循環政策在臺灣的可行性？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:27.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:28.927000+08:00","text":"目前核安會整體評估結論為何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:29.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:30.068000+08:00","text":"有沒有什麼規劃？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:32.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:38.845000+08:00","text":"目前還在研究之中，國原院也有做這方面的研究。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:40.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:40.826000+08:00","text":"有研究？有。確定？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:42.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:42.387000+08:00","text":"有研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:43.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:45.209000+08:00","text":"好，有研究就好，但是我們希望……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:45.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:48.331000+08:00","text":"可以降低高放射性的體積。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:48.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:52.414000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，我們希望後續能夠拿到一些相關資料，可以提供嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:52.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:52.554000+08:00","text":"可以、可以。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:53.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:34.432000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們希望臺灣可以做得比日本更嚴謹，因為乾式貯存的設施，日本是使用金屬護箱，臺灣是使用混凝土的護箱系統，所以在報告的第23頁提及日本對於臺灣混凝土所謂護箱系統的安全監測以及因應它的腐蝕防範等議題倍感興趣，這代表臺灣在乾式貯存的護箱設計跟長期的監測規劃上某些做法已經走在日本的前面，日方也說要向臺灣取經，這代表一件事情：臺灣不是做不到高標準核安跟核廢的管理。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:35.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:47.838000+08:00","text":"所以核安會更有責任把這些專業的成果、風險的評估以及未來用過核燃料管理的一個整體路徑清楚地跟社會大眾說明。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:49.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:54.201000+08:00","text":"最後我有一個議題，我今天就提出來，但不讓你回答了，因為時間有限。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:54.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:51.274000+08:00","text":"我想牙醫師全聯會在3月9日有拜會核安會，討論兩個議題，分別是移動式的牙科X光機、牙科的根尖X光機，必須設置在獨立的X光室，關於這個議題，我希望主委能夠重視，我們也很重視牙醫全聯會他們的訴求，很多偏鄉沒有牙醫，今天召委他們也是在偏鄉努力，比如臺東縣東河鄉就是其中一個無牙醫的鄉鎮，就只能藉由行動牙科的方式去偏鄉看診，然而卻面臨沒有攜帶式的X光機無法做牙根根管以及拔牙等進一步的治療，這些都是現階段遇到的問題，偏鄉行動的牙科高齡患者所面臨到在現行規範下的一個障礙。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:52.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:56.097000+08:00","text":"核安會是否承諾，這已經造成實際的醫療不平等？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:57.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:03.983000+08:00","text":"核安會的風險評估有沒有辦法把醫療可近性不足本身作為一個公共健康風險納入考量？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:04.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:09.627000+08:00","text":"就這兩個議題，有沒有蒐集國際的指引、更務實的做法？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:11.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:12.874000+08:00","text":"這個會後麻煩你給我資料。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:12.874000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:14.078000+08:00","text":"好，我們會去進行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:14.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:15.021000+08:00","text":"我希望你要正視這個問題，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:15.521000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:16.521000+08:00","text":"可以的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:16.821000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:19.678143+08:00","text":"謝謝羅廷瑋召委的詢答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:19.978143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:22.835286+08:00","text":"請核安會主委回座。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（羅委員廷瑋）","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:23.135286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:27.421000+08:00","text":"下一位委員是鄭天財、鄭天財、鄭天財。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（羅委員廷瑋）","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:27.721000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:30.292429+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（羅委員廷瑋）","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:30.592429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:32.306714+08:00","text":"請洪孟楷委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}