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紐澳等國那第二個問題就是說這八萬多公噸的馬鈴薯會不會公佈"},{"start":54.577,"end":80.323,"text":"抽到這個抽驗到多少發芽的馬鈴薯那再來就是第三個未來消費者能不能知道來源跟產地就這三個問題可不可以請院長說明一下第一個我們現在馬鈴薯未來進口的方式在美方的出口的檢疫跟我方進口端的檢疫都不會變得更鬆這個檢疫毒性的標準是不變的那抽驗衛福部對這個"},{"start":81.98,"end":102.32,"text":"茄檢的這個檢疫從2%到10%這個也是不會變的那我們現在多增加的是一份說你這個整櫃當中如果你是少數的有發芽那可以再經過業者去指定業者農業部指定業者去到一個特定的一個場域加工廠裡面去就逐批逐櫃"},{"start":103.201,"end":130.316,"text":"足科用輸送帶來看它有沒有長芽長芽的就把它剔除掉就整顆的悔氣那其他的部分當然就會是健康的這個是現在未來可能有規定的未來新的一個方式進來所以是不會的那七萬顆的馬鈴薯當中大概百分之六十是先時用的加工百分之六十百分之四十那另外這些部分先時的部分完全不會有後面這一套"},{"start":131.737,"end":141.604,"text":"只有加工用的馬鈴薯會有後面這套新的程序所以還是維持百分之二到百分之十我跟委員補充一下這邊的檢測是百分之六十檢驗到了有發芽的馬鈴薯也會公佈數量"},{"start":146.469,"end":171.329,"text":"然後也會讓我們的消費者知道說我們的產地檢驗它如果超標就退運回去了如果超標就退運回去了我跟委員補充一下你說的百分之二到百分之十如果說這是一般的根據它的風險如果說它被檢測的話下一次它就提高了它的檢驗的那個頻度了跟它的標準可能會到二十三十這樣子那農業部也是一樣從六十起跳"},{"start":171.949,"end":189.617,"text":"如果他被我們發現有一些病狀害有沒有的部分那下一次可能變成百分之八十百分之九十這樣子的方式去處理根據他的風險好謝謝院長部長那回到主題那我想請問院長因為現在執政黨要重啟核能回頭思案"},{"start":191.017,"end":213.108,"text":"那賴總統除了感謝立法院修了核管法我想請教院長是不是也該對當初反對修正核管法的這個執政黨的委員對他們說些什麼還有就是說是不是也應該對當初我們修正了核管法的在野黨黨團說些什麼包括總統跟行政院並沒有對於"},{"start":214.147,"end":240.493,"text":"主張贊成或反對修核管法的個別委員有特別的表示我們有任何的意見我們是尊重大院對核管法的修法那總統也感謝說大院修這個修了核管法所以能夠重啟核能所以我想說是不是這個部分那既然要重啟核能我們核二廠核三廠這是舊的核電廠那配套是什麼"},{"start":241.192,"end":261.892,"text":"那如果說要新式所謂你說的新式核能就是新建嘛是不是要蓋新的核武廠那位置在哪裡院長我們對新式核能就是SMR這個或是MMR這樣的一個新式的核能絕對不是不是這個傳統的核能在增加不是傳統嘛那就是要新建嘛所以不是核二核三嘛對不對"},{"start":262.852,"end":284.677,"text":"核二核三是在經過核安會舊台電送出的再延轉計畫以及自主安全檢查審核格之後它可以有重啟的一個機會那要不要重啟要看整個當時社會的共識如何那如果檢查然後同意也審得通過可以重啟舊的核二核三嘛那新式核能就是要新建啊就這樣子啊"},{"start":285.077,"end":285.877,"text":"當初廢核沒有充分的跟社會大眾"},{"start":311.994,"end":340.809,"text":"做溝通所以才會衍生出後續的爭議2011年那時候宣布這一次要重啟這一次要重啟我們是希望說能夠聽取更多元的聲音不要說我要告訴院長因為錯誤的能源政策是確實是會造成國家為國家帶來危機我們的民生用電的不足產業用電出現管缺犧牲民眾的健康也會引發可能的一個國安的憂慮隱憂就像我們中火"},{"start":341.434,"end":353.059,"text":"中火現在是台灣最大的電廠所以我們中火鄉親因為中火必須要發大量的電提供給全國使用所以中火我們看一下這個數據這個"},{"start":357.711,"end":386.149,"text":"我要提的是台電2025年的財報那2025年的稅後盈餘新台幣729億不但是台電睽違三年以來的一個轉睽違表現還優於預期 刷新紀錄台電表示說2025年的盈餘將用來填補累計的虧損那稅這個稅後盈餘當中業外收入140億那剩餘600億都是電業收入那它合理的利潤是300億喔"},{"start":387.762,"end":407.099,"text":"那增加了300億的一個一個所謂的就是電力收入那這些就是從我們去年的調整電價來的嘛對不對就是從去年調整電價所以才會有這額外的300億好那我們看一下我們從去年廢核之後我們來自核能工業的電力少了400多億度400多億度齁"},{"start":409.321,"end":430.667,"text":"那有學者舉例嘛 假設一半由天然氣然後每度成本3.2元那四分之一由太陽光電每度成本5元四分之一由風電每度成本7元來替代這個發電成本每度只要1.1元的核電那台電相當於白白少賺了1200億"},{"start":432.011,"end":461.272,"text":"那這就是非核家園付出的一個最低的代價那這1200億的損失最終還是你我還有全體的國人荷包的損失都是我們要負擔的你剛才也提到核關法的規定它就只能40年而已不得不停下來這是法律上的規定只有核關法改了以後才有辦法可能再啟動你剛才也提到了那2011年那時候就是決定不願意因為"},{"start":461.972,"end":489.004,"text":"福島發生這個核災嘛那時候也是那時候潮大也大這決定喔好啦好啦謝謝啦因為我想最主要還是要回到台中火力發電廠的問題因為執政黨答應過我們地方鄉親說要用燃氣取代燃煤降低空污嘛但是現在台中港區既有的這個儲存潮目前是六座加上年底完工的兩座就是八座那這還有"},{"start":490.239,"end":505.617,"text":"計畫在外港區擴建的4座、12座再加上5街的5座總共是17座全部都集中在台中港那天然氣儲存廠現在是地方最擔心的問題2街還沒做完還有5街"},{"start":506.338,"end":530.152,"text":"那政策的一個遭遇細改苦的就是我們當地的民眾而且傷的也是我們民眾的荷包啦 全體民眾的荷包所以希望院長可以看到這一點這總共17座5階加2階17座的天然氣儲氣槽如果萬一發生什麼公安沒有人公安意外沒有人願意但是如果假設假設發生什麼公安意外這個"},{"start":531.753,"end":554.549,"text":"是零所效應是不堪想像因為你都全部集中在台中港區而且天然氣全部都仰賴進口我們從這個不管是我們一直提醒執政黨說一定會受到國際情勢然後天氣的狀況還有反應的狀況現在中東的戰況持續的延燒問題全部都反映出來了"},{"start":555.256,"end":567.158,"text":"全部都反映出來所以對我們當地居民的壓力非常的大儲氣槽的這個建制還有就是我們當地漁民的一個陳情"},{"start":568.496,"end":587.076,"text":"中游目前正在計畫接收站之間的串聯我們的海底輸氣管線的部件一定會影響這些漁民捕撈的漁場讓漁民的捕撈權益受損再加上我們這個港務公司毛泊區不斷的外擴所以這些儲氣槽"},{"start":588.377,"end":600.351,"text":"相關的這些建設是千里法動全身所以院長部長我想要請教你們有沒有全面的考慮到所衍生的這些漁民捕撈的權利還有所有的民生問題好跟委員報告這個"},{"start":602.23,"end":619.002,"text":"台中的發電廠在2026年也會有新的燃氣機組合上來所以包括台中以及其他高雄的興達也會有所以我們各地都是按照計畫來偵測四階五階等等以及三階的擴充它的除氣槽"},{"start":620.363,"end":636.395,"text":"這個都是按照計畫當中的所以也沒有集中在台中而已是各地都需要配備需要的另外工程進行的時候當然要高度的要求公安這個是責無旁貸的責任經濟部或中油或是台電都必須要達到這個標準再來就是在剛"},{"start":637.496,"end":664.366,"text":"臨海地區當然有漁場的一些經驗要去處理那麼從三階四階生育的保護或是漁場的這個漁獲的維護都有相當的經驗我也認為未來的處理我們應該從經驗當中會處理得比現在更好好 那我再請問是 那個因為那環評都有要求那環評過我們才會施工那包括那個怎麼樣怎麼樣留下或是什麼那個都有環評上的規定"},{"start":665.527,"end":679.207,"text":"怎麼樣盡量的保護漁場這個有相關的規定要有新的作為啦因為現在這個毛泊區的外擴我們台中港所有的漁民因為毛泊區的外擴就已經產生了非常大程度的一些影響"},{"start":680.163,"end":695.903,"text":"現在再加上我們這個海底所有管線的部件這個又是雪上加霜這個部分我想請院長跟部長一定要重視我們一定會注意到我在這邊再請教院長就過去我們一直喊蒸汽減煤嘛我們希望其實重點就是在減煤啦希望減煤減煤"},{"start":697.065,"end":712.035,"text":"中火也是全國最大的一個燃煤電廠那現在我們即將要重啟核能能不能具體的承諾我們台中的市民我們這個減煤的速度能不能再加快腳步"},{"start":713.144,"end":741.826,"text":"減煤啊院長有指示本來是2034年齁完全就是無煤嘛齁台中的部分那院長有指示說看能不能提前兩年啊那我們盡量來看看怎麼樣的做法提前兩年啊2032年對 這樣我們盡量來所以這個就是院長答應的就是要往這個目標做我去年到中火的時候我看到整個的計畫我認為絕對有那個空間那前提是現在的以氣換煤的新的燃氣機組要能夠照他的時程能夠上來"},{"start":742.406,"end":758.767,"text":"包括2026年有兩部機組就要上來了那我們就可以適時搭現有的燃煤機組做更適當的備用或是其他的處理方式院長為什麼提這個因為從112年到114年的9月中火一共發生了8次的公安意外"},{"start":759.8,"end":785.689,"text":"而且這還不包含沒有通報地方消防的這些事件那我們也對於第一線的工作人員他們非常的辛苦我們也對他們也是覺得說非常的這樣子的不捨但是我想第一線在中國大多數的從業人員都是在地的鄉親那我是希望說院長你有時間你還是要安排一下專程來到台中港"},{"start":786.469,"end":814.804,"text":"來看我們這個17座未來要布建的這17座的儲存槽以及台中火力發電廠就是中火他目前的設置還有當地民眾我們從業人員他們的工作環境可以嗎 院長好的 我現在也正想去台中港看看未來現在我們已經積極請台中一起來協助處理的這個建築剩餘土石方的問題我可以一併去看看這幾個重大的國家這個公共工程的建設"},{"start":816.36,"end":839.856,"text":"好現在是四月份那接下來就是我們用電高峰所以就是說用電高峰期就是檢視我們電網韌性工程的一個成果那院長能不能院長部長請你們宣示就是說今年我們不會因為電網老舊也不會因為設備的問題來又發生大停電目前的供應量是沒有問題"},{"start":845.298,"end":849.072,"text":"電網的韌性我們現在是很積極的在改善當中"},{"start":850.968,"end":876.32,"text":"我們因為2022年這個0303全國大停電所以台電開始了為期10年的5645億強化電網韌性計畫來對全國各區的電網變電所還有接線改善、愛子清洗等來做加強所以這已經4年了嘛已經4年了所以能不能請部長說明一下目前成果如何"},{"start":877.779,"end":893.065,"text":"我們現在目前就是說把一些比較高壓的部分直供到這個工業區裡面去不要再經過跟民眾來併用那這個部分已經有在主要還是從幾個科學園區先來做一些處理了"},{"start":894.264,"end":911.297,"text":"那台電他去年賺錢多賺了300億嘛多賺了300億他這些是因為他補充以前有累積的虧損大概要來還以前的累積虧損嘛那如果有剩餘的部分這些錢是不是也會持續的加碼而且他今年又要"},{"start":912.117,"end":912.578,"text":"我想這個電網韌性的部分"},{"start":932.304,"end":956.976,"text":"那你還有所有的社會社會在地的行程我們在地的行程停電的時候我們也沒有什麼所以老闆老闆歡迎你這些國內的基礎設施我們要盡情檢查我們請院長 部長把這些對地方貢獻的救援金一定要實施的我會跟委員長我們跟一些中部隊員我們跟市長"},{"start":963.446,"end":963.467,"text":"好,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:02:40.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:02:41.803000+08:00","text":"主席、各位列席官員，大家好。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:02:42.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:02:44.724000+08:00","text":"主席，有請行政院卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:02:44.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:02:45.444000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:02:45.444000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:02:54.415000+08:00","text":"顏委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:02:54.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:02:54.555000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:02:56.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:06.359000+08:00","text":"現在民眾最關心的就是這幾天新聞都在播我們進口馬鈴薯的問題，我想請問一下院長，針對馬鈴薯的抽驗比率是不是還維持2%？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:07.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:18.244000+08:00","text":"另外，臺灣一年進口約八萬公噸，大概是六億顆，最主要還是從美國進口，美國大概是占了六到八成，其他還包括加拿大、紐、澳等國。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:18.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:27.938000+08:00","text":"第二個問題是這八萬多公噸的馬鈴薯會不會公布抽驗到多少發芽的馬鈴薯？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:29.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:32.839000+08:00","text":"第三個問題是未來消費者能不能知道來源跟產地？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:33.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:34.079000+08:00","text":"就這三個問題可不可以請院長說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:35.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:48.502000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們馬鈴薯未來進口的方式，在美方出口端的檢疫跟我方進口端的檢疫都不會變得更鬆，檢疫毒性的標準是不變的。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:49.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:03:55.944000+08:00","text":"至於抽驗方面，衛福部對於茄鹼的檢疫從2%到10%，這個也是不會變的。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:03:56.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:25.948000+08:00","text":"我們現在多增加的是整櫃當中如果是少數的有發芽，那可以再由農業部指定業者到特定的場域，也就是到加工廠裡面去逐批、逐櫃、逐顆用輸送帶來看它有沒有長芽，長芽的就把它剔除掉、就整顆毀棄，那其他的部分當然就會是健康的，這個是未來可能會規定用新的方式進來，所以是不會的。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:26.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:31.291000+08:00","text":"在七億顆馬鈴薯當中，大概60%是鮮食用的……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:32.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:32.932000+08:00","text":"加工60%……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:36.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:44.999000+08:00","text":"加工40%，另外鮮食的部分完全不會有後面這一套程序，只有加工用的馬鈴薯會有後面這一套新的程序。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:45.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:46.980000+08:00","text":"所以還是維持2%到10%？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:46.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:48.261000+08:00","text":"2%到10%……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:48.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:49.062000+08:00","text":"我跟委員補充一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:49.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:50.043000+08:00","text":"這邊的檢測是60%……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:50.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:51.043000+08:00","text":"我跟委員補充一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:50.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:51.584000+08:00","text":"檢驗到有發芽的馬鈴薯也會公布數量？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:04:56.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:04:59.532000+08:00","text":"也會讓我們的消費者知道產地是美國這樣的狀況？","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:00.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:02.514000+08:00","text":"檢驗到如果超標，就退運回去了。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:02.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:03.514000+08:00","text":"就退運。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:02.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:05.396000+08:00","text":"如果超標就退運回去了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:05.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:19.447000+08:00","text":"我也跟委員補充一下，您說的2%到10%，這是根據一般的風險，如果被檢測到的話，下一次就會提高檢驗的頻度跟標準，可能會到20%、30%這樣子。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:20.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:31.053000+08:00","text":"農業部也是一樣，從60%起跳，如果被我們發現有一些病蟲害的部分，下一次可能變成80%、90%這樣的方式去處理，就是根據它的風險。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:31.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:33.474000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長、部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:33.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:34.855000+08:00","text":"回到主題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:34.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:05:53.963000+08:00","text":"我想請問院長，現在執政黨要重啟核能、回頭是岸，賴總統除了感謝立法院修了核管法，我想請教院長，是不是也該對當初反對修正核管法的執政黨委員說些什麼？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:05:53.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:01.147000+08:00","text":"還有，是不是也應該對當初修正核管法的在野黨黨團說些什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:01.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:13.929000+08:00","text":"包括總統跟行政院並沒有對於主張贊成或反對修核管法的個別委員有特別表示我們有任何意見，我們是尊重大院對核管法的修法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:15.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:20.591000+08:00","text":"對，總統也表示感謝大院修了核管法，所以能夠重啟核能。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:21.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:30.493000+08:00","text":"我想既然要重啟核能，核二廠、核三廠是舊的核電廠，那配套是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:31.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:37.818000+08:00","text":"如果要你說的新式核能，就是新建，是不是要蓋新的核五廠？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:37.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:39.160000+08:00","text":"位置在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:39.160000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:40.160000+08:00","text":"院長，你有什麼想法？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:39.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:47.748000+08:00","text":"我們對SMR或者MMR這樣的新式核能，絕對不是傳統的核能再增加。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:47.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:49.830000+08:00","text":"不是傳統，那就是要新建嘛？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:50.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:51.892000+08:00","text":"所以不是核二、核三，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:51.892000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:06:52.892000+08:00","text":"所以就有預設……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:06:52.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:06.595000+08:00","text":"核二、核三是再經過核安會就台電送出的再運轉計畫及自主安全檢查審查合格之後，可以有重啟的機會，那要不要重啟，要看整個當時社會的共識如何。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:07.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:14.657000+08:00","text":"對，如果檢查、經過同意，也審核通過可以重啟舊的核二、核三，新式核能就是要新建，就這樣子啊。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:14.657000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:15.657000+08:00","text":"新式核能因為現在實際上還沒有正式商轉的例子，我們要跟世界同步來討論、研發，甚至商轉的時候，我們也要再取得國內另外一種對新式核能的接受。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:15.657000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:16.657000+08:00","text":"我認為以目前這個情勢，我們就科學的檢驗、國際的標準來看，能夠跟國人做這樣的說明，應該可以取得一部分的支持。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:15.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:44.295000+08:00","text":"當初廢核沒有充分地跟社會大眾做溝通，所以才會衍生出後續的爭議……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:44.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:47.477000+08:00","text":"2011年那時候宣布不延役。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:47.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:07:52.659000+08:00","text":"這次要重啟，我們希望能夠聽取更多元的聲音。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:07:54.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:08:09.928000+08:00","text":"我要告訴院長，錯誤的能源政策確實會為國家帶來危機，我們的民生用電不足，產業用電出現短缺，犧牲民眾的健康，也會引發可能的國安隱憂。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:08:09.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:08:20.337000+08:00","text":"就像中火，中火現在是臺灣最大的電廠，我們中部的鄉親……因為中火必須要發大量的電提供給全國使用。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:08:22.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:08:31.073000+08:00","text":"我們看一下數據，我要提的是台電2025年的財報。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:08:31.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:09:06.530000+08:00","text":"2025年台電的稅後盈餘是新臺幣729億，不但是台電睽違3年以來的轉虧為盈，表現還優於預期，刷新紀錄，台電表示2025年的盈餘將用來填補累計的虧損，稅後盈餘當中，業外收入140億，賸餘600億都是電業收入，它合理的利潤是300億，增加了300億的電業收入就是從我們去年的調整電價來的，對不對？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:09:06.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:09:09.833000+08:00","text":"就是從去年調整電價，所以才會有這額外的300億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:09:10.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:09:49.436000+08:00","text":"我們看一下，我們從去年廢核之後，來自核能供應的電力少了四百多億度，有學者舉例，假設一半由天然氣（每度成本3.2元）、四分之一由太陽光電（每度成本5元）、四分之一由風電（每度成本7元），來替代發電成本每度只要1.1元的核電，台電相當於白白少賺了1,200億，這就是非核家園付出的最低代價……","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:09:49.436000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:09:50.697000+08:00","text":"委員都沒有算到核後端的費用……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:09:50.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:09:56.161000+08:00","text":"不是、不是，等一下，這1,200億的損失最終還是你、我還有全體的國人荷包的損失，都是我們要負擔。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:09:56.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:10:07.289000+08:00","text":"報告委員，您剛才有提到核管法的規定，他就只能40年而已，不得不停下來，這是法律上的規定，只有核管法改了以後，才有辦法、才有可能再啟動。","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:10:07.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:10:18.975000+08:00","text":"您剛才也提到了，2011年那時候就是決定不延役，因為福島發生核災，那時候是朝大野小所做出的決定喔！好啦！好啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:10:19.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:10:19.435000+08:00","text":"謝謝啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:10:19.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:10:29.159000+08:00","text":"我想最主要還是回到臺中火力發電廠的問題，因為執政黨答應過我們地方鄉親要用燃氣取代燃煤，以降低空污嘛！是。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:10:29.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:10:49.190000+08:00","text":"但是臺中港區既有的儲存槽目前有六座，加上年底完工的兩座就有八座，還有計畫在外港區擴建的四座，加起來就是十二座，再加上五接的五座，總共是十七座，全部都集中在臺中港。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:10:50.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:11:49.244000+08:00","text":"天然氣儲存槽現在是地方最擔心的問題，二接還沒做完，然後還有五接，政策的朝令夕改，苦的就是我們當地的民眾，而且傷的也是我們全體民眾的荷包，所以希望院長可以看到這一點，包括五接加二接在內，這十七座天然氣儲氣槽，當然沒有人會希望發生工安意外，但假設發生了什麼工安意外，他的連鎖效應將是不堪想像，而這都全部集中在臺中港區，且天然氣全部都仰賴進口，我們一直提醒執政黨，一定會受到國際情勢、天氣的狀況、海運的狀況等等的影響，現在中東戰況持續延燒，問題全部都反映出來了，所以對我們當地居民的壓力非常的大。","quality":0.799},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:11:51.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:12:21.200000+08:00","text":"儲氣槽的建置，還有我們當地漁民的陳情提到，中油目前正在計畫接收站之間的串聯，所以海底輸氣管線的布建，一定會影響到這些漁民捕撈的漁場，讓漁民的捕撈權益受損，再加上港務公司錨泊區不斷的外擴，所以儲氣槽等相關的建設是牽一髮動全身。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:12:21.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:12:29.830000+08:00","text":"想要請教院長、部長，你們有沒有全面考慮到所衍生的這些攸關漁民捕撈權益還有相關的民生問題？","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:12:29.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:12:56.248000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，臺中的發電廠在2026年會有新的燃氣機組上來，包括臺中以及其他像高雄興達也會有，我們各地都是按照計畫來增設四接、五接以及擴充三接的儲氣槽，這個都是按照計畫來做的，所以並沒有只集中在臺中而已，是各地都需要配備的。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:12:56.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:13:04.774000+08:00","text":"另外，工程進行的時候，當然會高度的要求工安，這個是責無旁貸的責任，經濟部、中油或是台電都必須達到這個標準。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:13:05.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:13:18.440000+08:00","text":"再來，臨海地區當然有漁場的一些經驗要去處理，從三接、四接甚至於保護的部分，或是漁場魚貨的維護，他們都有相當的經驗。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:13:18.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:13:22.181000+08:00","text":"我也認為未來的處理上，我們從這些經驗當中應該會處理得比現在更好。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:13:24.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:13:38.291000+08:00","text":"因為環評都有要求，環評過了我們才會施工，包括怎麼樣的流向或是什麼之類的，都有環評上的規定，還有怎麼樣儘量的保護漁場，這個也有相關的規定。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:13:39.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:13:58.173000+08:00","text":"要有新的作為，因為我們臺中港所有的漁民因為錨泊區的外擴，已經造成一些相當程度的影響，現在再加上海底相關管線的布建，這又是雪上加霜，所以這個部分請院長跟部長一定要重視。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:13:58.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:13:58.834000+08:00","text":"工程上我們一定會注意安全。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:13:59.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:14:22.015000+08:00","text":"我再請教院長，過去我們一直喊出增氣減煤，其實重點就是在減煤，而且中火也是全國最大的燃煤廠，現在我們即將要重啟核能，能不能具體承諾我們臺中的市民，減煤的速度能不能再加快腳步？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:14:23.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:14:35.533000+08:00","text":"臺中的部分，本來是2034年要完全無煤，但院長有指示，看看能不能提前兩年，我們會儘量來看有怎麼樣的做法……","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:14:35.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:14:36.614000+08:00","text":"提前兩年就是到2032年？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:14:37.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:14:39.016000+08:00","text":"對，我們儘量來做。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:14:39.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:14:41.578000+08:00","text":"所以這是院長答應的，就是要往這個目標來做。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:14:41.578000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:14:42.578000+08:00","text":"按照我們的評估……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:14:42.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:15:00.596000+08:00","text":"我去年到中火的時候，在看到整個的計畫後，我認為絕對有那個空間，前提是現在的以氣換煤的新的燃氣機組要能夠照它的時程上來，包括2026年有兩部機組就要上來了，那我們就可以適時就現有的燃煤機組做更適當的備用或是採其他的處理方式。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:15:01.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:15:02.619000+08:00","text":"院長，我為什麼提這個？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:15:02.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:15:14.262000+08:00","text":"因為從112年到114年9月中火一共發生了8次工安意外，而且這還不包含沒有通報地方消防的這些事件。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:15:15.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:15:49.516000+08:00","text":"我們覺得第一線的工作人員非常辛苦，我們對他們也感到非常的不捨，我想中火大多數在第一線的從業人員都是在地的鄉親，院長，我希望你有時間還是要安排一下，專程來臺中港看我們未來要布建的這17座儲存槽，以及臺中火力發電廠也就是中火目前的設置，還有從業人員有很多都是當地民眾，也去看看他們的工作環境，院長，可以嗎？","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:15:50.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:16:04.804000+08:00","text":"好的，我也正想去臺中港看看，現在我們已經積極請臺中一起來協助處理建築剩餘土石方的問題，我可以一併去看看這幾個重大的國家公共工程建設。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:16:06.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:16:29.015000+08:00","text":"好，現在是4月份，接下來就是我們用電高峰期了，在用電高峰期就是要來檢視我們電網韌性工程的成果，院長、部長，請你們宣示，今年我們不會因為電網老舊、也不會因為設備的問題而又發生大停電，你們在這邊保證一下今年不會發生大停電。","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:16:29.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:16:29.856000+08:00","text":"目前的供應量是沒有問題。對嘛？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:16:35.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:16:39.052000+08:00","text":"對，對電網的韌性我們現在是很積極地在改善當中。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:16:43.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:06.300000+08:00","text":"因為2022年的0303全國大停電，所以台電開始了為期10年、預算5,645億的強化電網韌性計畫，對全國各區的電網、變電所還有接線改善、礙子清洗等進行加強，到現在已經4年了，能不能請院長、部長說明一下目前的成果如何？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:07.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:22.925000+08:00","text":"我們目前就是把一些比較高壓的部分直供到工業區裡面去，不要跟民眾來併用，這個部分主要還是從幾個科學園區先來做一些處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:25.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:29.508000+08:00","text":"台電去年賺錢，有多賺了300億，多賺的300億是……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:30.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:32.830000+08:00","text":"是補充以前累計的虧損大概4,000億。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:33.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:35.432000+08:00","text":"對，要來還以前的累計虧損嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:35.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:38.995000+08:00","text":"如果有剩餘的部分，這些錢是不是也會持續地加碼到我們的強化電網韌性計畫裡面？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:38.995000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:39.995000+08:00","text":"台電今年又要吐回去，因為要吸收……","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:39.995000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:40.995000+08:00","text":"今年可能又虧了，因為油價的關係嘛！對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:40.995000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:41.995000+08:00","text":"因為天然氣價格上漲。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:41.995000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:42.995000+08:00","text":"那今年有沒有預計會虧損多少？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:42.995000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:17:43.995000+08:00","text":"如果估計到6月份的話，可能要吸收將近300億左右。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:17:42.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:18:12.789000+08:00","text":"我想這個電網韌性的部分，中火是我們全國最大的電廠，它隱含的所有社會成本，在地民眾都吸收了，我們在地的居民都吸收了，在停電的時候，我們也沒有少停，在各地停電時，我們那裡也在停電啦！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:18:13.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:18:24.515000+08:00","text":"所以我們對這些供電的基礎設施要積極的檢討，院長、部長，這些是對地方有貢獻的救命錢，請你們一定要實質的來給地方補助。好。","quality":0.547},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:18:25.015000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:18:33.586429+08:00","text":"謝謝顏委員，我會跟委員一樣，我們關心中火，未來能夠迅速的讓它更乾淨。","quality":0.267},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2026-04-24T16:18:33.886429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:18:35.029286+08:00","text":"好的，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:18:35.329286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:18:42.757857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝顏寬恒委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","quality":0.115},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:18:43.057857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:18:49.629286+08:00","text":"接下來是本日最後一位質詢的委員，請洪毓祥委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}