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Token的要求越來越高本席過去曾經問過國客會的吳主委就說"},{"start":231.326,"end":255.727,"text":"針對AI用的多用的好的國內外的教授因為有一些是我們邀請他來的國外教授有一些是國內的我們可不可以透過這個來延攬他能獎勵他吳主委當時跟我們承諾說沒問題很好的建議承諾一個月內提供相關的報告今天也快一個月了請教一下國國會陳副主委現在進度如何有沒有什麼初步的進展可以跟大家分享"},{"start":259.628,"end":284.029,"text":"跟委員回報 我們目前應該是在整理當中應該是5月8號之前會提供給大院好 太好了 同樣的問題我們也問彭副院長啦就是對於使用 因為您剛剛也講嘛就是這個AI不等於違反學術人體正面看待 而且容許使用我們也希望中研院的同仁是很會善用AI那對於善用AI 有在使用AI Token或使用AI工具在做研究的"},{"start":284.669,"end":301.399,"text":"國內外優異的研究員有沒有提供一些幫助或對國外延展來的學者我們可不可以或者國內邀請來的學者給他AI Token更多讓他可以做更好的研究這個部分能不能一個月內給本席一個規劃我們一起來努力可以這樣嗎"},{"start":302.639,"end":317.329,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來本席想先請教副主委一個問題我們來看一下這個畫面這個字有點小問一下劉聖良 陳婉慧 邱承遠目前是在立法院的哪一個委員會"},{"start":322.227,"end":344.459,"text":"好問題 這個問題要查一下才知道好 沒問題啦 事實上不用查AI問在場所有的人 我們都知道這三位都已經不是現任的立委但這個畫面呢 我們是使用今年二月才釋出的台德模型那他的回答呢 哇 非常具有想像空間說呢 他們是這個台灣民眾黨啦 是這個會期 擔任副院長"},{"start":345.239,"end":373.205,"text":"各種的想像而且還講了2025年底所屬的委員會有各種各種的想像清楚的告訴我們一個錯誤的宇宙好像真實一樣但是我們理解啊資料是會出錯的研究同仁都很努力但是這些出錯的問題呢這個模型突出來的卻認為它是真的我們還問了他現在的副主委是誰啊他說林敏充女士想必副主委您不是林敏充女士嘛對吧"},{"start":374.085,"end":395.383,"text":"所以這個資訊可是它上面還解得很清楚喔截至2026年初事實上啊這樣子的一種做法在過去的AI服務裡面是要清楚標示的那我們可以看得到Chad GPT Gemini都有標示那模型能不能用這件事情我想請教一下主委我們"},{"start":396.224,"end":406.16,"text":"推出了二月今年二月才推出的台德的模型我們所有研究人員都很用心去做出來可是做出來這個資訊結果這樣我們應該要如何看待如何處理啊"},{"start":408.337,"end":437.298,"text":"跟委員回報台德這一塊我們其實一直在鼓勵大家來做精進所以這個我們會再繼續努力好 事實上我覺得幾個建議非常明確第一個事實上有部分內容在問他的時候他會很明確地講他的資料只在2023年所以事實上我們也看到一些極權國家他可能在問他某一些數字的問題的時候他不想回答我們不去做審查"},{"start":437.998,"end":459.968,"text":"但是模型本身是可以自我理解它的資料到什麼時候模型在吐出答案的時候也是可以提醒用戶這個資料不盡正確我相信在座剛剛這個中央院副院長 彭副院長也說他用AI用得很熟我相信有用過AI去問法律問題的人都知道他最後一定會加一句這是法律的相關的這個參考"},{"start":463.01,"end":472.71,"text":"請你有問題還是要詢問律師所以這種所謂的AI跟互動過程當中所做到的提醒我們還是要有這一點未來我們可不可以持續的改進"},{"start":473.963,"end":491.745,"text":"跟委員報告應該是可以的好那我們其實也想說好沒有關係時間的問題也許沒有辦法非常完美但是我們也想要測試它的文化主權的能力啦因為我們也看嘛你說自己做自己的AI模型要Find2要對我們的文化有更多的了解嘛結果咧"},{"start":492.686,"end":503.831,"text":"在地的語境也掌握不足這字有點小啦那我們就問了這個台德的模型留有看語重分高麗菜煮蛋那一桌到底是什麼"},{"start":505.494,"end":532.772,"text":"兩個不信啦第一個很不信啦我們已經問了他TikTok結果呢他括號說TikTok抖音就是所謂的TikTok對於我們台灣的這個文化完全誤解同時呢對於這個網友的這種文字的用詞用法他也不了解所以我們其實覺得非常的可惜啊然後呢我們也測試了什麼你說文化的主權主權的AI結果呢我們問他一些電影的一些這個翻譯啊"},{"start":535.374,"end":560.271,"text":"結果他說有一部很好看的克里斯多夫諾蘭的影片潛行空間我看到有人在笑了這是Inception這我最愛的電影啊前面啟動潛行空間是誰的翻譯?抱歉中國大陸的翻譯就Jema吐出來我們完全沒有要苛責研究人員的意思我們要幫助大家所以我有具體兩點訴求想跟副主委交流第一"},{"start":561.031,"end":578.984,"text":"我們要超前部署那我們現在的這個模型今年2月推出Gemma 312B的Find 2的版本但是4月份Gemma 4就出了我們做的時間很久我沒有要苛責但是我們能不能去討論"},{"start":581.165,"end":598.317,"text":"產官學更多的公司協力的合作因為事實上在過去這字都有一點小不好意思就是說這個FreeSDFreeSeed有一個大型的模型這個陳彥廷我們這個博士的這個非常棒的研究員"},{"start":599.298,"end":623.532,"text":"他是用了很多的台灣本地的語料去訓練了用GBT OSS 120B去fine-tune了一個120B的版本那他們很努力的還要去群眾募資然後去募集資源做了可能也很難做下去我們有沒有辦法去公司協力我們也幫副主委找了法源 AI基本法第八條"},{"start":624.412,"end":642.984,"text":"資通安全法第四條都明確要求政府要促進產官學合作那目前國際也是如此嘛NASA國防部直接跟SpaceX來發射火箭因為很多事我覺得三年前我們還可以討論政府來做現在我們要借重民間的力量我們主權AI的發展上可不可以比照辦理"},{"start":643.644,"end":659.494,"text":"建構一套政府與民間協力的機制副主委能不能在一個月內針對大模型還有算力的機房去提出我們的公私協力的一個合作的規劃的可能可以嗎跟委員回報基本上這個的確就是我們現在在做的方向"},{"start":660.274,"end":687.822,"text":"包含了我們在推的那個算力聯盟那這個台德就是所謂的大選與模型這一塊我們也希望能夠跟廠商做合作一個月可能是稍微短一點點兩個月這個AI的時代一個月等於是一個世紀了好不好所以這個我們其實已經正在做了兩個月可以嗎可以可以我們兩個月內為什麼因為我看到國會會今天的報告說2029年瞄準算力到多少瓦"},{"start":688.402,"end":702.454,"text":"你自己記得嗎2029應該是202923MW啦副主委有上網看網路新聞吧有看這些國外大廠的發表會吧我直接跟您分享啦2027到2028Meta要啟用1GW到2030年以前"},{"start":709.042,"end":723.841,"text":"兩Gigawatt是那Giga單位我們上次已經跟國會主委討論過了人家是兩千啦對我們是二十啦是的那我們又是哇 科技之島哇 又戲頓所以我們真的要跟產業一起來合作"},{"start":724.241,"end":739.754,"text":"要加倍而且要加速最後還有一個問題另外本協要請教我們能不能進一步的來佈局因為我們自己要蓋可能真的很難我們就算公司協力也很難這個AI Token我們能不能提前佈局採購這什麼意思"},{"start":742.213,"end":770.15,"text":"澳洲日本美國正在蓋沒有台積電的晶片他也蓋不了沒有台灣的供應商提供他這些機架這些水冷的設備他也不能去蓋我們可不可以早一點在蓋的時候我們用國家的高度去跟他談我們談AI Token的預購我們阿拉斯加的這個LNG我們國家都可以來預購啊AI Token我們能不能及早做國家級的"},{"start":771.61,"end":788.221,"text":"預購因為你要建要建設就建成像我們剛剛看到的嘛2022110這個2028年2029年我們要這個23GWMegawatt別人的1%這個有沒有機會來研議一下好這我們回去研討看看"},{"start":788.581,"end":814.612,"text":"那時間能不能給我一下這個可能要快這個一個月好不好初步的初步的好不好一個月那有機會也可能要邀請國會這邊來我們這邊一起來探討一下因為這個真的是要提前佈局過了這個村沒有那個店你都蓋好了你跟人家說要分人家也不分你了啦現在在商業合作我們國家有話語權這也是我們的AI主權也是我們的主權AI最後的最後啦請教一下"},{"start":815.572,"end":831.839,"text":"短期內我們剛剛講的都是長期短期內沒有超前部署我們可不可以做到精準打擊因為我們的AI主權AI或AI主權其實就是要有文化的主體性這一點我相信也是我們主席安排這次的專題報告非常重要"},{"start":832.219,"end":846.056,"text":"要文化的主體性我們的AI要講我們的語言我們講影片就影片不是視頻講聲音就是聲音不是音頻品質就品質不是質量但是我們現在發現沒有這樣的語料庫"},{"start":849.78,"end":873.019,"text":"我們的這個語料庫有很多東西沒有更新像我們提到上次講AI Token對不對我們去查了其實相關的這個語料庫其實是不夠的像一個電影Inception我們台灣翻譯是什麼全面啟動結果跑出一個潛行空間其實這是可以解決的如果我們有一個語料庫台灣的用語"},{"start":874.298,"end":888.698,"text":"GPT可以來學Gemini也可以來學台德自己也可以來學就不會發生我們剛剛看到的重要的國家籍的資料是錯誤的重要的國家的文化是錯誤的這個我再考一下這個主委這一題已經謝題過了"},{"start":891.542,"end":911.675,"text":"像這個是我們很重要的一個文化,這個是什麼意思?這是前總統蔡英文有20萬讚喔,在翠上面全球轟動的一個,算是次文化。有沒有人要搭救一下我們副主委的?"},{"start":914.227,"end":935.402,"text":"蘇巴布市長,這個侯市長真的很了解我們這個庶民文化,網路文化真羨慕啊,這個詞打出來,全球的網路阿宅不明絕地啊,事實上就是真羨慕的意思那真羨慕我們也考過了,全世界所有主流AI都沒通過測驗"},{"start":936.443,"end":963.182,"text":"沒有任何一個AI知道這個是真羨慕的意思只要我們有一個語料庫這不用很貴啊把它建進去我們JMA3 12B它也可以回答出來這個就是我們真正的AI主權真正的主權AI這個副主委啊有沒有機會能夠在一定的期間之內我剛剛很多報告但是這個您自己講一個時間好不好我真的不想讓大家但這個真的很重要因為我從"},{"start":964.542,"end":993.358,"text":"2024年2月1號一進來我就一直在呼籲我們的政府要回過頭來要定義我們自己的文化包含我們的庶民文化網路文化電影的翻譯藝人的名稱是珍妮佛不是珍妮花是蜘蛛人不是蜘蛛俠這個副主委我們能不能要跨部會我想你們是最適合跨部會的是是 這個我們因為語勞庫這一塊現在庶發部在幫忙在處理所以我們可以跟庶發部一起來做這件事情"},{"start":993.638,"end":1015.136,"text":"能不能有一個時間線就是一個月兩個月或三個月有個初步研議的時候我不喜歡這樣但是因為這件事情很急迫啦我想侯次長也很了解你看侯次長剛剛都可以其實只要說不定訪談一下侯次長把它建立起來這旅遊庫說不定就很完整可不可以有一個時間三個月我們可以說"},{"start":1018.427,"end":1036.479,"text":"對 應該三個月了全球AI 主流AI Cloud GPT Gemini 茵茵期盼因為他們真的很想要更加貼近我們民主的 繁體中文的 華文的文化好不好 這一點我們一起來努力 可以嗎好 謝謝 謝謝副主委"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:33:48.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:33:48.389000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:33:48.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:33:53.210000+08:00","text":"有請國科會陳副主委、中研院彭副院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:33:53.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:33:54.251000+08:00","text":"請國科會、中研院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:33:57.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:07.514000+08:00","text":"我先請教一下彭副院長，剛剛質詢你說可以檢查有沒有亂用AI生成內容，你們有一些軟體，是不是？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:08.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:09.335000+08:00","text":"這個部分可不可以延伸說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭副院長信坤","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:11.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:36.660000+08:00","text":"中研院從去年開始有一個軟體可以產出AI偵測報告，每一個研究計畫有中研院的IP就可以丟進去，偵測出來就有兩欄，一是所謂AI生成的部分，另一是AI改寫的部分，百分比都可以很精準的秀出來。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:38.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:44.485000+08:00","text":"謝謝副院長，這個部分也就是本席擔心的，本席就是擔心我們要用軟體去檢查人類的成果。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:47.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:57.334000+08:00","text":"您剛剛提到的這一點，事前我的辦公室有跟中研院了解，有沒有使用軟體、有沒有採購軟體，得到的答案是沒有。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:58.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:02.377000+08:00","text":"結果您現在上來卻炫耀你們有使用軟體，為什麼？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:02.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:19.450000+08:00","text":"本席要在這裡提醒，要維繫AI倫理，重點不在檢測工具，而在教育，在店家裡面購買什麼樣的工具給客人，重點不在這些工具能不能傷人，而是他的用途是什麼、用意是什麼。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:19.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:25.194000+08:00","text":"放一把火可能會對帳篷造成危險，可是可以讓人類開始吃到熟食。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:26.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:30.419000+08:00","text":"你有沒有看過這則新聞？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:30.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:36.503000+08:00","text":"維繫校園安全，這個沒有問題，用檢查的方式、用AI來檢查人類，結果造成什麼？誤判！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:38.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:45.129000+08:00","text":"16歲的少年手上拿著Doritos，結果被說他手上拿著槍，於是員警一擁而上，這還不是什麼案例。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:45.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:11.520000+08:00","text":"副院長可能想這個是不一樣的AI，我就給副院長看一下，這是在美國學術界裡面廣泛流傳，而且已經被認定為錯誤判斷的案例，可以試試看把瑪麗‧雪萊寫的科學怪人第五章的開頭文字丟到你們的AI辨識軟體，大部分的AI辨識軟體都說這是AI寫的，請問瑪麗‧雪萊是AI嗎？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"彭副院長信坤","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:14.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:21.903000+08:00","text":"我們不能完全相信AI，所以本於誠信原則還是要check它的準確性。很好。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:23.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:31.285000+08:00","text":"本來我上來是真的要鼓勵一下副院長，你說容許使用AI不等於違反學術倫理，我們就鼓勵。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:31.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:52.475000+08:00","text":"如果您過度強調AI偵測，以AI的軟體去監控或者審查，可能會有點本末倒置，我在這裡還是要校正一下視聽，也讓中研院所有同仁放心，中研院一定是站在一個更高的角度，而不是要用軟體去檢查、審查人所產出的內容，為什麼？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:53.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:56.255000+08:00","text":"因為AI可能會犯錯，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭副院長信坤","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:56.255000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:57.255000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:56.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:04.763000+08:00","text":"尤其是文字的檢查，AI會犯錯的機率已經幾乎被證實了，所以這一點麻煩院長、副主委一起來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:05.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:12.830000+08:00","text":"對於這樣的做法，其實我們也希望未來可以更好的運用AI。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:13.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:24.002000+08:00","text":"我們今天要談AI主權，或者大部分人講主權AI，我們也不要忽視算力，算力取決於AI的token，全世界對AI token的要求越來越高。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:24.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:39.656000+08:00","text":"本席過去曾經問過國科會吳主委，針對AI用得多、用得好的國內外教授，因為有一些是我們邀請來的國外教授，有一些則是國內的，我們可不可以透過這個來延攬他、能獎勵他？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:40.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:46.341000+08:00","text":"吳主委當時跟我們承諾，說沒問題、很好的建議，承諾一個月內提供相關的報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:46.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:50.505000+08:00","text":"現在也快一個月了，請教一下國科會陳副主委，目前進度如何？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:50.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:52.707000+08:00","text":"有沒有什麼初步的進展可以跟大家分享？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:56.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:02.693000+08:00","text":"跟委員回報，目前在整理當中，應該是5月8號之前會提供給大院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:02.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:03.194000+08:00","text":"太好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:03.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:15.664000+08:00","text":"我也問彭副院長同樣的問題，因為您剛剛也講了，使用AI不等於違反學術倫理，正面看待而且容許使用，我們也希望中研院的同仁很會善用AI。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:16.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:25.151000+08:00","text":"對於善用AI、有在使用AI token或使用AI工具在做研究的國內外優異研究員，有沒有提供一些幫助？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:25.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:33.456000+08:00","text":"或對延攬來的國外學者或者邀請來的國內學者，可不可以給他更多AI token，讓他可以做更好的研究？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:34.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:38.399000+08:00","text":"這個部分能不能一個月內給本席一個規劃，我們一起來努力，可以這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭副院長信坤","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:40.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:40.740000+08:00","text":"可以，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:40.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:54.329000+08:00","text":"接下來本席想先請教副主委一個問題，我們來看一下這個畫面，字有點小，劉盛良、陳琬惠、邱臣遠目前是在立法院的哪一個委員會？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:59.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:01.448000+08:00","text":"好問題，這個問題要查一下才知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:01.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:02.308000+08:00","text":"沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:02.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:12.714000+08:00","text":"事實上不用查AI，問在場所有的人，我們都知道，這三位都已經不是現任立委，但這個畫面是使用今年2月才釋出的TAIDE模型而來。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:13.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:33.481000+08:00","text":"它的回答非常具有想像空間，說他們是台灣民眾黨、這個會期擔任副院長等，而且還講了2025年底所屬的委員會，有各種想像，清楚告訴我們一個錯誤的宇宙，好像真實的一樣。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:33.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:43.243000+08:00","text":"我們理解資料是會出錯的，雖然研究同仁都很努力，但這些出錯的答案是從這個模型出來的，可能會被認為是真的。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:43.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:45.864000+08:00","text":"我們還問它，現在的副主委是誰？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:46.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:50.185000+08:00","text":"他說是林敏聰女士，想必副主委不是林敏聰女士，對吧？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:51.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:55.629000+08:00","text":"可是上面的資訊還寫得很清楚，截至2026年初。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:56.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:09.121000+08:00","text":"事實上，這樣的做法在過去的AI服務裡面是要清楚標示的，我們可以看得到ChatGPT、Gemini都有標示，那模型能不能？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:10.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:23.020000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下副主委，我們今年2月才推出的TAIDE模型，所有研究人員都很用心地去做出來，可是做出來的資訊、結果是這樣，我們應該如何看待、如何處理？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:27.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:33.863000+08:00","text":"我們在TAIDE這一塊其實一直鼓勵大家來精進，我們會再繼續努力。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:34.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:45.191000+08:00","text":"事實上，我有幾個建議非常明確，第一個、有部分內容在問它的時候，它會很明確地講，它的資料只到2023年。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:46.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:52.816000+08:00","text":"我們也看到一些集權國家的AI模型，可能問它某一些數字的問題時，它不想回答。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:53.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:05.663000+08:00","text":"我們不去做審查，但是模型本身是可以自我理解它的資料到什麼時候，模型在吐出答案的時候，也是可以提醒用戶這個資料不盡正確。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:06.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:22.094000+08:00","text":"剛剛中研院彭副院長也說他用AI用得很熟，我相信有用過AI去問法律問題的人都知道，它最後一定會加一句：這是法律的相關參考，請你有問題還是要詢問律師。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:22.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:29.710000+08:00","text":"這一種所謂跟AI的互動過程當中所做到的提醒我們還是要有，這一點未來我們可不可以持續的改進？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:30.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:32.045000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，應該是可以的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:32.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:43.358000+08:00","text":"好，我們其實也想說沒有關係，因為時間的問題，也許沒有辦法非常完美，但是我們也想要測試其文化主權的能力，因為我們也看嘛！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:44.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:51.767000+08:00","text":"若自己做自己的AI模型，要fine-tune，要對我們的文化有更多的了解，結果在地的語境也掌握不足。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:54.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:21.847000+08:00","text":"我們就問TAIDE模型「留友看」、「與眾分」、「高麗菜煮蛋那桌」到底是什麼，兩個不幸，第一個很不幸，我們已經問它這些是在「脆」上面的哏，結果它括號說TikTok抖音就是所謂的「脆」，對於我們臺灣的文化完全誤解，同時對於網友的文字用詞、用法也不了解，所以我們其實覺得非常的可惜啊！","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:22.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:23.828000+08:00","text":"然後我們也測試了什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:23.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:45.003000+08:00","text":"你說文化的主權、主權的AI，所以我們問它一些電影的翻譯，結果它說有一部很好看的影片是克里斯多夫‧諾蘭的「潛行空間」，我看到有人在笑，這是我最愛的電影「全面啟動（Inception）」，潛行空間是誰的翻譯？","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:45.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:48.605000+08:00","text":"抱歉，是中國大陸的翻譯，結果Gemma吐出來……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:48.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:20.587000+08:00","text":"我們完全沒有要苛責研究人員的意思，我們要幫助大家，所以我有具體的兩點訴求想跟副主委交流，第一，我們要超前部署，現在的這個模型，今年2月推出Gemma 3是12B的fine-tune版本，但是4月份Gemma 4就出了，我們做的時間很久，我沒有要苛責，但是我們能不能去討論產官學更多的公私協力合作？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:21.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:53.127000+08:00","text":"因為事實上在過去FreeSEED有一個大型的模型，林彥廷博士是非常棒的研究員，他用了很多臺灣本地的語料去訓練，用gpt-oss-120b去fine-tune一個120B的版本，他們很努力的還要去向群眾募資，並且去募集資源，但做了可能也很難做下去。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:53.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:56.689000+08:00","text":"我們有沒有辦法公私協力？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:57.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:11.358000+08:00","text":"我們也幫副主委找了法源，AI基本法第八條、資通安全法第四條都明確要求政府要促進產官學合作，目前國際也是如此，NASA、國防部直接跟SpaceX來發射火箭。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:11.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:23.106000+08:00","text":"很多事我覺得三年前我們還可以討論由政府來做，但現在我們要借重民間的力量，在主權AI的發展上可不可以比照辦理，去建構一套政府與民間協力的機制？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:23.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:32.932000+08:00","text":"副主委，能不能在一個月內針對大模型及算力的機房去提出公私協力合作規劃的可能，可以嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:32.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:50.018000+08:00","text":"跟委員回報，基本上這個的確是我們現在在做的方向，包含我們在推的算力聯盟，TAIDE就是所謂的大型語言模型這一塊，我們也希望能夠跟廠商合作，一個月可能稍微短了一點……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:50.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:50.018000+08:00","text":"兩個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:50.018000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:51.438000+08:00","text":"好，兩個月，可以。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:51.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:55.399000+08:00","text":"在AI的時代，一個月等於是一個世紀了啦，好不好？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:56.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:57.100000+08:00","text":"好，這個我們其實正在做。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:57.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:58.040000+08:00","text":"兩個月，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:58.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:59.680000+08:00","text":"可以，我們兩個月內跟……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:59.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:00.081000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:00.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:09.225000+08:00","text":"因為我看到國科會今天的報告提到，2029年瞄準算力到多少瓦，你自己記得嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:09.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:09.225000+08:00","text":"2029年應該是……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:09.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:10.346000+08:00","text":"23 MW啦！是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:11.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:13.589000+08:00","text":"副主委有上網看網路新聞吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:14.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:16.652000+08:00","text":"有看這些國外大廠的發表會吧！是的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:17.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:34.573000+08:00","text":"我直接跟您分享，2027年到2028年，Meta要啟用1 GW，到2030年以前是2 GW，GW的單位我們上次已經跟國科會主委討論過，人家是2,000，我們是20啊！是的。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:35.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:40.821000+08:00","text":"我們是科技之島、又矽盾，所以我們真的要跟產業一起合作。當然。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:41.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:42.462000+08:00","text":"要加倍，而且要加速。是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:43.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:48.227000+08:00","text":"最後還有一個問題，另外本席也要請教，我們能不能進一步的來布局？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:48.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:56.634000+08:00","text":"因為我們自己要蓋可能真的很難，就算公私協力也很難，AI token我們能不能提前布局採購？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:56.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:56.734000+08:00","text":"這是什麼意思呢？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:59.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:11.700000+08:00","text":"澳洲、日本、美國正在蓋，沒有台積電的晶片，他們也蓋不了，沒有臺灣的供應商提供他們這些機架、水冷設備，他們也不能蓋。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:11.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:17.164000+08:00","text":"我們可不可以早一點在蓋的時候用國家的高度去跟他們談？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:17.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:23.527000+08:00","text":"我們談AI token的預購，阿拉斯加的LNG我們國家都可以預購啊！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:24.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:28.610000+08:00","text":"AI token我們能不能及早做國家級的預購？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:28.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:43.640000+08:00","text":"因為你們要建設，就建成像我們剛剛看到的，2029年我們要23 MW，是別人的百分之一，這個有沒有機會來研議一下？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:44.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:45.201000+08:00","text":"好，這個我們回去研討看看。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:46.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:47.042000+08:00","text":"時間能不能給我一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:47.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:49.142000+08:00","text":"這個可能要快，一個月好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:49.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:49.743000+08:00","text":"初步的，好不好？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:50.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:46:50.503000+08:00","text":"好，初步的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:46:51.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:47:02.948000+08:00","text":"有機會也可能要邀請國科會來我們這邊一起探討一下，因為這個真的是要提前布局，過了這個村，沒有那個店，你都蓋好了，你跟人家說要分，人家也不分你了啊！","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:47:03.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:47:09.271000+08:00","text":"現在在商業合作，我們國家有話語權，這是我們的AI主權，也是我們的主權AI。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:47:10.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:47:19.035000+08:00","text":"最後請教一下，我們剛剛講的都是長期，短期內沒有超前部署，我們可不可以做到精準打擊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:47:19.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:47:41.293000+08:00","text":"因為我們的主權AI或AI主權，其實就是要有文化的主體性，這一點我相信也是我們主席安排這次專題報告非常重要的原因，我們的AI要講我們的語言，我們講影片就是影片，不是視頻；講聲音就是聲音，不是音頻；品質就是品質，不是質量。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:47:42.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:47:53.986000+08:00","text":"但是我們現在發現沒有這樣的語料庫，我們的語料庫有很多東西沒有更新，像我們上次提到AI token，對不對？是。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:47:53.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:48:02.033000+08:00","text":"我們去查了，其實相關的語料庫是不夠的，像電影Inception，我們臺灣翻譯是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:48:02.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:48:23.235000+08:00","text":"是「全面啟動」，結果跑出一個「潛行空間」，其實這是可以解決的，如果我們有一個臺灣用語的語料庫，GPT可以來學、Gemini可以來學，TAIDE也可以來學，就不會發生我們剛剛看到的，重要的國家級資料是錯誤的、重要的國家文化是錯誤的。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:48:24.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:48:32.705000+08:00","text":"我再考一下主委，這一題已經洩題過了，像這個是我們很重要的文化，簡報上的這個是什麼意思？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:48:33.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:48:48.515000+08:00","text":"這是前總統蔡英文在脆上面的留言，有20萬個讚，算是全球轟動的次文化，有沒有人要搭救一下副主委？","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T09:48:48.515000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:48:52.888000+08:00","text":"真羨慕。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:48:52.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:49:07.159000+08:00","text":"數發部侯次長真的很了解庶民文化、網路文化，真羨慕這個詞打出來，全球的網路阿宅不明覺厲，事實上就是真羨慕的意思。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:49:08.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:49:15.765000+08:00","text":"真羨慕我們也考過了，全世界所有的主流AI都沒通過測驗，沒有任何一個AI知道這個是真羨慕的意思。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:49:16.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:49:27.553000+08:00","text":"只要我們有一個語料庫，這不用很貴，把它鍵進去，Gemma 3 12B也可以回答得出來，這個就是我們真正的AI主權、真正的主權AI。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:49:29.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:49:37.179000+08:00","text":"副主委，有沒有機會能夠在一定的期間之內……我剛剛有要很多報告，這個您自己講一個時間，好不好？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:49:37.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:49:58.091000+08:00","text":"我真的不想讓大家……但這個真的很重要，因為我從2024年2月1號進來就一直在呼籲，我們的政府要回過頭來定義我們自己的文化，包含我們的庶民文化、網路文化、電影的翻譯、藝人的名稱，是珍妮佛，不是珍妮花；是蜘蛛人，不是蜘蛛俠。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:49:58.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:02.674000+08:00","text":"副主委，若要跨部會，我想你們是最適合跨部會的。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:02.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:10.338000+08:00","text":"是，因為語料庫這一塊現在是數發部在幫忙處理，所以我們可以跟數發部一起來做這件事情。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:10.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:13.500000+08:00","text":"能不能有一個時間線？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:13.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:28.673000+08:00","text":"就是一個月、兩個月或三個月有個初步的研議，我不喜歡這樣，但是因為這件事情很急迫，我想侯次長也很了解，你看侯次長剛剛都可以回答出來，說不定只要訪談一下侯次長，把它建立起來，這個語料庫說不定就很完整了。是。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:29.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:31.255000+08:00","text":"可不可以有一個時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:31.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:31.935000+08:00","text":"三個月，其實我們正在做。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:35.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:49.797000+08:00","text":"三個月，全球的主流AI，Claude、GPT、Gemini都殷殷期盼，因為他們真的很想要更加貼近我們民主、繁體中文的華文文化，好不好？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:49.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:52.118000+08:00","text":"這一點我們一起來努力，可以嗎？好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:53.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:53.459000+08:00","text":"謝謝副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:53.959000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:50:58.244714+08:00","text":"謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢，請官員回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:50:58.544714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:51:02.544714+08:00","text":"接下來有請林宜瑾委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}