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0.3為客"},{"start":179.019,"end":197.106,"text":"對那為什麼會有這樣的情況0.3其實就是趨勢上面我們看到無論是平均值喔或者是這一些區域性喔都沒有辦法呈現在下降沒有沒有我就是去年前年跟去年去年可能是比較特殊有它的一個原因有它的原因啦是什麼原因你們觀察到的為什麼去年的數字都升高"},{"start":201.147,"end":222.832,"text":"跟委員報告目前因為這個溫度增加對於我們相關的化學反應的速率也增加所以有可能造成我們的數值會比前一年升高你是說溫度升高平均氣溫升高那所以今年的話看起來今年四月也開始熱起來了今年如果溫度升高所以今年的數據跟去年比較起來也不容熱管了"},{"start":222.912,"end":235.267,"text":"如果依照目前我們初步看前三個月我們是比去年還不錯那溫度我剛才講溫度是一個主要的一個因素啦那包含降雨也是還有汙染源的改善也是一個因素"},{"start":236.223,"end":238.764,"text":"好我覺得這個挑戰事實上是非常大的那我們就來看包括有些相關的配套事實上現在的成績也是不理想第一個就是我們的這一些運具電動化特別是我們看到這個電動車現在雖然比例有增加距離原來要達到的10%還是差了1%的距離"},{"start":260.47,"end":279.083,"text":"但電動機車這個市佔率目標是20%電動機車這個是大幅落後現在大概只有7%那這一塊這個你們跟交通部有沒有一些什麼專案就是來提升這個電動機車的市佔率可以改善我們現在摩托車的數量的確是蠻高的"},{"start":281.451,"end":307.003,"text":"在我們的近鄰的小組在行政院裡面都有在討論到這個議題交通部也坦承說因為必須說我們的經費在財務法過後他們其實想要爭取電動車的補助目前因為這個費用大幅度的減少所以的確這個目標沒有辦法達到所以我們有要求他們說是不是提出一個新的規劃出來因為原來的目標就如同委員說的沒有達到這個標準"},{"start":308.456,"end":323.966,"text":"這一塊真的是落後太多所以我希望這一個移動污染源也是可以有效減少PM2.5的一個減少就是降低的那如果可以讓他這個電動化這個其實是可以大幅改善這個是可做的這個不是不可控這個其實反而是可控我希望這一個環境部你們要去督促你們有負有督促的責任各部會這一個落後的沒有做到的你們應該是要聯合去督促他"},{"start":338.637,"end":343.308,"text":"可以改善那這個部長你今年希望目標可以達到多少"},{"start":344.792,"end":361.702,"text":"電動車這個我會再跟那個交通部再討論一下好這一塊我希望你們要加強去做另外一個就是減煤的政策事實上我們現在沒有減煤的具體的期程我必須這樣子講為什麼因為我們現在燃煤的發電廠到目前為止這個部長我們有拆除任何一部已經被除役"},{"start":374.891,"end":386.962,"text":"是不是請台電來回答我這邊也先跟委員報告因為我上禮拜一在日本參加一個會我旁邊都坐了各國的大使也討論到這個問題因為韓國提出了2040年五美"},{"start":390.906,"end":416.708,"text":"韓國啦 他們有很多的我們台灣沒有計畫我們還沒有 韓國是2040年那日本呢也在考慮重啟部分的這個燃煤的電廠因為他們的有超超臨界的一個做法所以我們問他說那你們沒有壓力嗎他說沒有辦法因為這個全世界的中東的這個戰爭危機喔我們政府必須要有一個短適應的一個做法所以這個問題呢是我們臨近我們這幾個國家沒有能源的國家都一起面對到了一個挑戰啦"},{"start":417.108,"end":444.557,"text":"所以也就是我們不會拆除掉任何一座燃煤電廠對不對因為它都有功能跟我們報告台中電廠的一二號機已經有承諾在今年底會開始啟動拆除台中會拆除台中的一二號機對那三四號機會配合台中二期的燃氣計畫會在二零三一年底啟動拆除好台中反而是比較明確因為台中市政府他很重視這個議題這個空品的問題那我要請教的是興達電廠一二號機"},{"start":447.116,"end":469.325,"text":"什麼時候會拆除 興達電廠是更老舊的他2023年已經如期除役了但是現在呢 興達電廠這個前陣子被當地的議員說他光暖機 暖機了60個小時這個到底是在發電還是在暖機 都搞不清楚了所以這個興達電廠的部分有任何拆除的計畫"},{"start":470.441,"end":488.766,"text":"包括目前我們興達的燃煤機組還是留作緊急備用機組就是為了因應這些緊急狀況的一個發生所以興達是不會拆的對不對目前現在還是作為緊急備用機組反而台中這邊就是有一個具體的期程但是興達的部分是不會拆的但是興達其實是很老舊它排放出來的"},{"start":490.87,"end":517.866,"text":"這個對空污的污染 這個可能是高雄居民會是比較膽行的這個部分這個我覺得環境部你們可能應該要跟台電這邊好好去討論一下另外一個是麥寮的部分麥寮這次也是在中東的這個戰火底下他其實也是要繼續使用麥寮有任何拆除的計畫嗎 其實沒有要不要請能源署來報告好來能源署"},{"start":522.557,"end":531.475,"text":"那個麥芽電廠因為他執照不是他就是跟台電合約去年到期所以他二號機已經拆除了"},{"start":532.516,"end":551.902,"text":"2號機有拆除了那現在要重啟的是現在是緊急就是一個現在中東的情勢所以它是1號機跟3號機1號跟3號會運轉它未來也有一個我們叫做改成天然氣的計畫預計什麼時候就是以期換美什麼時候以期換美應該2029、2030左右它現在正在做"},{"start":558.245,"end":573.539,"text":"好 謝謝最後我要請教部長這個就是我們看到的現在的確我們是一個能源極度匱乏的國家那我們要仰賴這些天然氣也好 燃煤也好但是還有另外一個選項是核能我們也可以仰賴核能"},{"start":576.301,"end":581.223,"text":"那所以剛剛你自己也主動提到了這個我們鄰近的日韓因為中東的形勢燃煤它可能必須是保留的選項但是我們之前我們的政府很大膽這個完全要非核家園核電歸零那這個不是一個很躁勁的能源配比嗎那如果依你剛剛所說的現在加上全球的這樣的一個能源動蕩加上我們"},{"start":601.849,"end":629.477,"text":"如何去減煤如何是確保這個空品的品質一樣是我們的目標那核能應該是一個好的選擇不是嗎如果照委員的這個建議的話其實目前台電也照這個程序在進行當中好所以這個核能重啟核三的核能重啟我記得在委員會的時候一開始的時候問你你其實是傾向不支持的所以你現在也支持對不對基本上"},{"start":630.217,"end":648.863,"text":"我們是按照這個政策 那其實台電台電也正式申請了這個 那我們是尊重當然對於核能來說的話 如果有它可以對淨零碳排有幫助 我們當然會支持但是這個還是要核廢有解 因為它還是基本上還是一個核安的一個問題 要必須得到確認"},{"start":650.444,"end":678.144,"text":"所以現在你們也支持來經濟部我也問經濟部現在核酸的重啟你們是不是也是希望它可以如期的重啟減輕你們能源的壓力發電的壓力基本上對於核能的問題我們還是三個原則核安無虞核廢有解社會有共識的情況之下那剛剛委員所詢問的核酸的再運轉我們依照新通過的核安法的規定"},{"start":679.285,"end":697.374,"text":"由台電公司提出再運轉的計畫由獨立的核安會進行專業審查以經濟部而言的話我們認為安全非常的重要所以我們非常的尊重台電公司的專業的一個檢查還有核安會的一個獨立的一個審查"},{"start":698.564,"end":727.793,"text":"好那所以經濟部我可以問你嗎就是我們的能源配比原來我們是燃氣50%燃煤30%再生能源20%現在核酸其實是順利的話它一定是會重新運轉那所以在這樣子之後加上你們未來希望有一些是新核能你們也願意去採用你們有沒有討論過重新規劃以後的這一個能源的配比到底是多少你現在有答案了嗎"},{"start":728.857,"end":756.853,"text":"核電要佔多少跟委員說明我們經濟部本身我們就有一個電力可靠度的一個審查而且我們每年針對於未來往後的十年你剛剛委員所詢問的這個部分我們會做一個滾動式的檢討你們現在檢討的情況是什麼應該做出修正了吧因為核電沒有歸零已經回來了那燃煤大家都覺得它不應該佔比這麼高啊所以你們重新修正的大概是什麼比例有一些是在程序中的啊"},{"start":757.165,"end":781.036,"text":"那當然我們針對未來的時間甚至是這幾年的即時的需求我們必須要很務實的去看它實際可上線的在這邊也跟各位委員報告這邊提到的所謂的再生能源全球的所有的高科技的一個產業它都在追求所謂的再生能源我們也看到不管是國際能源總署的一個報告"},{"start":781.476,"end":785.88,"text":"因為我們都沒有反對我現在在問你的是說因為如果我們今天討論的是空品嘛對不對大家都知道燃煤是對空品的傷害是最高的那未來你現在核電也要回來了所以你重新調整之後你的能源配比會是什麼燃煤你預計要降多少核能要增多少你們沒有一個討論嗎"},{"start":804.053,"end":807.156,"text":"基本上這個我們針對真實有發生的這個事情假設性的問題的話我們還要看當時的一個這不是假設性我現在的意思是你原來你是會設定目標的對不對燃氣50是你的目標燃煤30你原來能源配比是這樣嘛"},{"start":823.647,"end":842.701,"text":"那現在顯然核三他已經進入到程序我想他後續的程序走應該也很順沒有問題然後核三再回來加上你未來要有新式的核能難道你們沒有重新去討論我們未來的能源配比做一些修正嗎他現在在程序中"},{"start":843.582,"end":868.78,"text":"做一個適宜性的專業的一個審查但是就你的能源選項不能缺少核能的吧我們這個不能預設沒有 卓院長也已經說了未來要用新式的核能所以我的意思是說核能必須是你的能源選項之一了吧你們到現在經濟部還是要反對嗎新式的核能的部分國際上面事實上都是在所以你們沒有去算過做什麼事情都要有一個計畫就像你剛剛講的"},{"start":869.7,"end":884.125,"text":"未來十年的目標你現在的能源配比顯然燃煤比例那麼高燃氣比例那麼高大家都想說有國安問題最近大家都說國安問題對不對那你重新在這些新的一些因素加進來之後我覺得經濟部你們的思考應該是要有未來十年的思考從現在開始你應該去調整你的能源佔比跟目標嘛這件事情應該是非常清晰的"},{"start":896.289,"end":916.793,"text":"所以核電不應該是你排除的嗎?剛剛台電總副總已經說明了非常清楚,這是第一個那第二個的話,我們在淨寧的路徑上面,去年國發會也發布了一些淨寧的一個路徑圖我們現在是依照這個路徑圖在執行之中所以你的能源配比要不要調整?"},{"start":917.413,"end":940.693,"text":"能源配比我剛剛跟委員說明的我們每年會在動態調整那你今年會調整成什麼樣的比例在動態當中你會修正成是什麼樣的比例因為今年現在時間還沒有到到時候我們要看我們要看這個今年最後檢討出來各種的能源它的分布的一個情形然後運轉的情形我們再來"},{"start":942.654,"end":965.14,"text":"這個賴市長我要提醒你經濟部做事應該是要五到十年的眼光一定會有絕對不是且戰且走就像我們現在這個民進黨執政之後對於核能就是通通一下子是要非核家園一下子又覺得電不夠現在再來走重啟這樣是不對的就是你對於一個能源核電我沒有說它百分之百的好"},{"start":965.58,"end":985.687,"text":"但是他也不可能在台灣我們現在有能力去排除就像剛剛部長的回答燃煤我們厭惡他但是燃煤在台灣現在也是沒有辦法百分之百的排除這都是現實所以我希望你們務實一點的看待能源而且提出一個合理的可以對我們的空品"},{"start":986.227,"end":1002.243,"text":"其實是有助於我們的這個空瓶所以燃煤的比例應該要下降那核電的部分也應該要讓它維持是一個選項我想經濟部的態度應該要很清楚不需要在這邊就是講官話就是什麼三個原則第一個"},{"start":1003.464,"end":1022.759,"text":"這個台電公司身為一個執行單位他必須依法來接受相關的獨立單位的一個審查當然但是政策之前是你們下的非核家園是你們下的政治責任是你們要負的不用歸給台電台電沒有這樣的責任是經濟部跟行政院做錯了能源的決定之前的非核家園"},{"start":1023.459,"end":1049.415,"text":"它就是一個錯誤的政策那現在島政回來我覺得很好大家就務實的看待不要對於核電有一些莫須有的罪名然後覺得說這個不用核電才是人沒有 不要用這種政治意識形態我只希望大家回到一個很務實的我們理性的看待我們的能源而且更重要的是我們今天是空污的議題未來燃煤的比例一定要下降好 謝謝"},{"start":1051.872,"end":1052.962,"text":"好 謝謝王一鳴委員的支持"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:20:18.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.568000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.728000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.868000+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.908000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:20:19.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:20:20.288000+08:00","text":"部長，我們今天討論空品的問題。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:20:20.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:21:12.283000+08:00","text":"第一個、我想要請教你的，就是我們現在PM2.5的監測，剛剛你的報告已經提到了，這兩年PM2.5都維持在12.8，事實上，是降不下來，PM10是不減反增，但是我們的白皮書裡面其實有提到一個目標，就是2030年我們要達到的願景，是PM2.5要降到1立方公尺10微克，但是現在已經停滯不前了，怎麼樣可以再持續往下降？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:21:14.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:21:17.385000+08:00","text":"這一個問題，部長，你覺得關鍵的因素在哪裡？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:21:17.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:21:41.475000+08:00","text":"關鍵的因素就是我們已經進入一個深水區，因為過去我們主要針對固定污染源做得比較多，固定污染源減量的成效是蠻不錯的，但是我們現在看到的是面源，有些縣市的面源還有移動污染源持續還在增加當中，所以目前如果要真的整體減下來的話，的確是需要很大的努力。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:21:42.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:21:43.456000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼有一個白皮書？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:21:43.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:21:58.206000+08:00","text":"因為我們發現這樣的問題應該一起來解決，而且還有一個，就是境外污染的問題，目前來說的話，一半大概也沒有辦法去解決這個問題，所以我們現在是希望回到源頭。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:21:58.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:08.849000+08:00","text":"當然10是我們的目標，目前我們的淨零碳排政策裡面有很多轉型，我們算過，2030年有機會達到10的目標。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:08.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:09.630000+08:00","text":"有機會嗎？有。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:09.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:26.798000+08:00","text":"那我們就來看一下，這個是平均數據，但是我們看到了中南部雲嘉南地區的狀況特別不好，它的PM2.5是高達16，還在上升當中，為什麼是這樣的情況？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:28.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:34.264000+08:00","text":"如果你說移動污染源的話，雲嘉南地區的汽機車數量有高嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:34.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:42.791000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實這個每年因為整個大氣環境的條件會不一樣，例如雨下得多少，跟這個都有關係……","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:42.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:43.931000+08:00","text":"但是這個是平均數據。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:44.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:45.672000+08:00","text":"對，平均數據，其實每年的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:45.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:47.374000+08:00","text":"它還在成長，這個是讓人家比較擔心的！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:47.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:51.136000+08:00","text":"沒有，你說哪一個縣市有在成長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:51.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:22:54.058000+08:00","text":"雲嘉南的空品，這個是你們客觀的數據。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:22:54.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:04.625000+08:00","text":"沒有，如果委員是看一、兩年的話，那個不準，如果以嘉義縣來看的話，在108年是24.4，去年是15.1，但是我必須說，跟前一年14.8相比，成長了0.3……","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:04.625000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:05.625000+08:00","text":"又上升了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:04.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:04.625000+08:00","text":"0.3微克。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:10.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:12.360000+08:00","text":"對，為什麼會有這樣的情況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:12.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:12.720000+08:00","text":"0.3，其實這個……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:12.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:19.663000+08:00","text":"就是趨勢上面，我們看到無論是平均值或者是區域性，都沒有辦法呈現再下降，而且有微幅上升。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:20.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:25.345000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，委員，前年與去年相比，去年可能是比較特殊，有它的原因……","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:26.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:27.445000+08:00","text":"是什麼原因？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:27.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:28.086000+08:00","text":"你們觀察到的，為什麼去年的數值都升高？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:28.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:32.147000+08:00","text":"有的變多、有的變少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:32.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:42.209000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前因為溫度增加，相關的化學反應速率也增加，所以有可能造成我們的數值會比前一年升高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:42.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:43.270000+08:00","text":"你是說溫度升高……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:43.270000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:44.270000+08:00","text":"溫度升高……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:43.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:44.530000+08:00","text":"平均氣溫升高……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:44.530000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:45.530000+08:00","text":"所以光化學反應會增加。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:45.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:23:53.192000+08:00","text":"所以今年的話，看起來，今年4月也開始熱起來了，如果今年溫度升高，今年的數據與去年比較起來，也不容樂觀。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:23:53.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:24:06.247000+08:00","text":"如果依照目前，我們初步看前三個月，相比去年，還不錯，另外，我剛才講溫度是一個主要因素，包含降雨也是，還有污染源的改善也是一個因素。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:24:07.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:24:07.623000+08:00","text":"好，我覺得這個挑戰事實上是非常大的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:24:07.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:24:08.203000+08:00","text":"我們就來看，包括相關的配套，現在的成績也是不理想。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:24:08.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:24:48.942000+08:00","text":"第一個就是我們的運具電動化，特別是我們看到電動車，雖然現在比例有增加，但是距離原來要達到的10%還是差了1%，電動機車市占率目標是20%，現在是大幅落後，大概只有7%，這一塊，你們跟交通部有沒有什麼專案來提升電動機車的市占率，可以改善？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:24:49.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:24:50.063000+08:00","text":"現在我們摩托車的數量的確是蠻高的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:24:52.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:17.842000+08:00","text":"我們的淨零小組在行政院裡面都有討論到這個議題，交通部也坦承，必須說我們這個經費在財劃法修正過後有受到影響，他們其實有想要爭取電動車的補助，目前因為這個費用大幅度減少，所以的確這個目標沒有辦法達到，所以我們有要求他們是不是提出一個新的規劃出來，因為原來的目標就如同委員說的沒有達到。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:17.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:21.638000+08:00","text":"這一塊真的是落後太多！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:22.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:31.764000+08:00","text":"所以我希望，因為移動污染源也是可以有效減少、降低PM2.5的，如果可以讓它電動化，其實是可以大幅改善。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:31.764000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:32.764000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:31.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:32.024000+08:00","text":"這個是可做的……是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:32.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:33.245000+08:00","text":"這個不是不可控，反而是可控。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:33.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:50.379000+08:00","text":"我希望環境部要去督促，你們負有督促的責任，各部會落後的、沒有做到的，你們應該要聯合去督促他可以改善。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:51.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:54.288000+08:00","text":"部長，你今年希望目標可以達到多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:55.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:25:59.114000+08:00","text":"電動車這個部分，我會跟交通部再討論一下。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:25:59.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:02.295000+08:00","text":"好，這一塊，我希望你們要加強去做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:02.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:11.441000+08:00","text":"另外一個就是減煤的政策，事實上，我們現在沒有減煤的具體期程，我必須這樣講，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:11.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:12.682000+08:00","text":"因為到目前為止，部長，我們有拆除任何一座已經被除役的燃煤發電廠嗎？有嗎？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:25.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:27.312000+08:00","text":"是不是請台電來回答？好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:29.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:42.806000+08:00","text":"我也先跟委員報告，我上禮拜一在日本參加一個會，我旁邊都坐了各國的大使，也討論到這個問題，因為韓國提出了2040年無煤，韓國有很多燃煤電廠……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:44.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:44.868000+08:00","text":"臺灣沒有計畫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:44.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:26:54.676000+08:00","text":"我們還沒有，韓國是2040年，日本現在也考慮重啟部分燃煤電廠，因為他們有超超臨界的做法，我們問他：你們沒有壓力嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:26:54.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:07.688000+08:00","text":"他說沒有辦法，因為全世界面臨中東戰爭危機，政府必須要有一個短適應的做法，所以這個問題是我們鄰近這幾個沒有能源的國家都一起面對到的一個挑戰。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:08.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:12.429000+08:00","text":"所以也就是我們不會拆除掉任何一座燃煤電廠，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:12.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:13.590000+08:00","text":"因為它都有功能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭副總經理慶鴻","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:14.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:19.512000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，台中電廠的一、二號機，已經有承諾在今年底會開始啟動拆除。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:20.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:20.912000+08:00","text":"台中電廠的會拆除？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭副總經理慶鴻","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:21.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:26.634000+08:00","text":"對，台中電廠的一、二號機，三、四號機會配合台中電廠二期燃氣計畫在2031年底啟動拆除。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:26.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:33.777000+08:00","text":"好，臺中反而是比較明確，因為臺中市政府很重視這個議題（空品的問題）。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:33.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:27:39.056000+08:00","text":"我要請教的是興達電廠一、二號機什麼時候會拆除？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:27:40.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:00.325000+08:00","text":"興達電廠是更老舊的，它2023年已經如期除役了，但是前陣子當地議員說，興達電廠光暖機暖了60個小時，這個到底是在發電，還是在暖機，都搞不清楚了，所以興達電廠的部分有任何拆除計畫嗎？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"鄭副總經理慶鴻","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:01.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:07.763000+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前興達的燃煤機組還是留做緊急備用機組，就是為了因應緊急狀況的發生。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:08.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:09.923000+08:00","text":"所以興達是不會拆的，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭副總經理慶鴻","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:10.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:11.684000+08:00","text":"現在這還是做為緊急備用機組。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:11.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:32.877000+08:00","text":"反而台中電廠的有一個具體期程，興達的部分是不會拆的，但是興達的其實很老舊，它排放出來的對空氣的污染可能會是高雄居民比較擔心的，這個部分，我覺得環境部應該要跟台電好好去討論一下……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:32.877000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:33.877000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:33.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:44.203000+08:00","text":"另外一個是麥寮的部分，在這次的中東戰火底下，其實麥寮也是要繼續使用，麥寮有任何的拆除計畫嗎？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:45.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:45.364000+08:00","text":"也是沒有？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:46.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:47.485000+08:00","text":"要不要請能源署來報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:48.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:28:48.846000+08:00","text":"好，請能源署。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳署長志偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:28:55.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:02.454000+08:00","text":"報告委員，麥寮電廠因為跟台電的合約去年到期，所以它的二號機已經拆除了。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:03.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:04.096000+08:00","text":"二號機有拆除了？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳署長志偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:04.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:05.096000+08:00","text":"對，二號機拆除了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:04.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:05.497000+08:00","text":"現在要重啟的是三號……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"吳署長志偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:07.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:13.939000+08:00","text":"它現在是因為緊急，就是中東情勢，所以一號機和三號機，未來……","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:13.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:14.059000+08:00","text":"一號機和三號機會運轉？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"吳署長志偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:14.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:19.381000+08:00","text":"對，它未來也有一個改成天然氣的計畫。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:19.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:19.821000+08:00","text":"預計什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:20.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:22.101000+08:00","text":"就是以氣換煤什麼時候？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳署長志偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:22.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:22.502000+08:00","text":"2029年、2030年左右。2029、2030年。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"吳署長志偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:22.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:22.882000+08:00","text":"對，現在正在做。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:29.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:29.505000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:29.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:29:51.502000+08:00","text":"最後，我要請教部長，這個就是我們看到的，現在我們的確是一個能源極度匱乏的國家，我們要仰賴天然氣也好，燃煤也好，但是還有另外一個選項是核能，我們也可以仰賴核能，剛剛你自己也主動提到了，我們鄰近的日、韓因為中東的形勢，燃煤可能必須是保留的選項，但是之前我們的政府很大膽，完全要非核家園，核電歸零，這不是一個很躁進的能源配比嗎？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:29:51.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:30:21.992000+08:00","text":"如果依你剛剛所說的，現在全球的能源動盪，加上如何減煤、如何確保空品的品質一樣是我們的目標，那核能應該是一個好的選擇，不是嗎？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:30:21.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:30:27.713000+08:00","text":"如果按照委員的這個建議的話，其實目前台電也照這個程序在進行當中。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:30:28.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:30:40.217000+08:00","text":"好，關於核三的核能重啟，我記得在委員會一開始問你的時候，你其實是傾向不支持的，所以你現在也支持，對不對？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:30:40.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:30:54.482000+08:00","text":"基本上我們是按照這個政策，台電也正式申請了，我們是尊重，如果核能對淨零碳排可以有幫助，我們當然會支持，但是這個還是要核廢有解。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:30:54.482000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:30:55.482000+08:00","text":"它當然對於淨零碳排有幫助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:30:55.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:30:59.863000+08:00","text":"因為基本上還是核安的問題必須得到確認，是不是請經濟部……","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:31:01.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:31:02.445000+08:00","text":"所以現在你們也支持嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:31:03.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:31:12.452000+08:00","text":"我也問經濟部，現在你們是不是也是希望核三可以如期的重啟，減輕你們能源的壓力、發電的壓力？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:31:13.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:31:20.298000+08:00","text":"基本上對於核能的問題我們還是三個原則──核安無虞、核廢有解、社會有共識。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:31:22.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:31:36.348000+08:00","text":"至於剛剛委員所詢問的核三的再運轉，我們依照新通過的核安法的規定，由台電公司提出再運轉計畫，由獨立的核安會進行專業審查。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:31:36.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:31:48.354000+08:00","text":"以經濟部而言，我們認為安全非常重要，所以我們非常尊重台電公司專業的檢查，還有核安會獨立的審查。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:31:50.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:17.512000+08:00","text":"我請問經濟部，我們的能源配比原來是燃氣50%、燃煤30%、再生能源20%，現在核三如果順利的話，它一定會重新運轉，加上你們希望未來有一些新核能你們也願意去採用，在這樣子之後，你們有沒有討論過重新規劃以後的能源配比到底是多少？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:17.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:18.793000+08:00","text":"你現在有答案了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:19.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:20.657000+08:00","text":"核電要占多少？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:20.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:35.946000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們經濟部本身就有一個電力可靠度的審查，而且我們每年針對於未來往後的十年，也就是剛剛委員所詢問的這個部分會去做滾動式的檢討，這是第一個。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:35.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:37.927000+08:00","text":"你們現在檢討的情況是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:37.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:38.788000+08:00","text":"應該做出修正了吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:38.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:46.272000+08:00","text":"因為核電沒有歸零，已經回來了，然後大家都覺得燃煤的占比不應該這麼高，所以你們重新修正的配比大概是什麼？","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:46.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:56.149000+08:00","text":"有一些是在程序中的，當然我們針對於未來的十年，甚至是這幾年的需求，我們必須要很務實的去看它實際可上線的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:56.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:12.016000+08:00","text":"在這邊也跟各位委員報告，這邊提到所謂的再生能源，全球所有的高科技產業都在追求所謂的再生能源，我們也看到，不管是國際能源總署的報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:12.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:16.360000+08:00","text":"這個我們都沒有反對，我現在在問你的是，因為我們今天討論的是空品，大家都知道燃煤對空品的傷害是最高的，未來核電也要回來了，所以重新調整之後，你的能源配比會是什麼？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:16.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:16.880000+08:00","text":"燃煤預計要降多少，核能要增多少，你們沒有一個討論嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:35.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:35.394000+08:00","text":"基本上……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:35.394000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:36.394000+08:00","text":"你們沒有一個大方向的討論。","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:35.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:36.334000+08:00","text":"我們是針對真實有發生的事情，假設性的問題我們還要看當時的狀況……","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:36.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:12.501000+08:00","text":"這不是假設性，我現在的意思是，你會設定目標，燃氣50%、燃煤30%是你的目標，你原來的能源配比是這樣，現在顯然核三已經進入到程序，我想它後續的程序走得很順應該也沒有問題，所以核三回來，加上你未來要有新式的核能，難道你們沒有重新去討論，針對我們未來的能源配比做一些修正嗎？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:12.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:17.004000+08:00","text":"委員，有關於核三廠的這個部分，它現在在程序中，做一個適宜性的、專業的審查……","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:17.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:20.666000+08:00","text":"但是你的能源選項不能缺少核能吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:20.666000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:22.748000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分我們不能預設立場，我們必須要尊重專業。","quality":0.261},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:22.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:30.553000+08:00","text":"卓院長也已經說了，未來要用新式的核能，所以我的意思是說，核能必須是你的能源選項之一吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:30.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:32.154000+08:00","text":"到現在經濟部還是要反對嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:32.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:35.777000+08:00","text":"新式核能的部分，國際上都是在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:35.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:49.583000+08:00","text":"所以你們沒有去算過，做什麼事情都要有個計畫，就像你剛剛講的，未來十年的目標，你現在的能源配比燃煤比例那麼高、燃氣比例那麼高，大家都認為有國安問題，最近大家都說國安問題。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:49.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:09.572000+08:00","text":"在這些新的因素加進來之後，我覺得經濟部的思考應該要有未來十年的思考，從現在開始，你應該去調整你的能源占比跟目標，這件事情應該是非常清晰的，所以核電不應該是你排除的嘛！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:10.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:15.118000+08:00","text":"以氣換煤這個部分剛剛台電鄭副總已經說明得非常清楚，這是第一個。","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:15.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:25.890000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們在淨零的路徑上面，去年國發會發布了一些淨零的路徑圖，我們現在是依照這個路徑圖執行之中。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:26.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:27.773000+08:00","text":"所以你的能源配比要不要調整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:28.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:32.577000+08:00","text":"如同我剛剛跟委員說明的，能源配比我們每年會……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:32.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:33.577000+08:00","text":"你是動態調整？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:33.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:33.498000+08:00","text":"對，動態調整。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:33.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:35.619000+08:00","text":"那你今年會調整成什麼樣的比例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:35.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:38.302000+08:00","text":"在動態當中你會修正成什麼樣的比例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:38.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:51.693000+08:00","text":"今年的部分因為現在時間還沒有到，我們要看今年最後檢討出來各種能源分布的情形、運轉的情形，我們再來做……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:53.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:57.995000+08:00","text":"次長，我要提醒你，經濟部做事應該要用五到十年的眼光……","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:58.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:58.816000+08:00","text":"一定會有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:58.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:11.859000+08:00","text":"絕對不是且戰且走，就像民進黨執政之後，對於核能，一下子是要非核家園，一下子又覺得電不夠，現在再來走重啟，這樣是不對的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:12.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:53.103000+08:00","text":"對於能源、核電，我沒有說它百分之百的好，但是在臺灣我們現在也不可能有能力去排除，就像剛剛部長的回答，燃煤，我們厭惡它，但是燃煤在臺灣現在也是沒有辦法百分之百的排除，這都是現實，所以我希望你們務實一點的看待能源，而且提出一個合理的配比，可以有助於我們的空品，所以燃煤的比例應該要下降，核電的部分也應該要讓它維持是一個選項，我想經濟部的態度應該要很清楚，不需要在這邊講官話、講什麼三個原則。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:53.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:00.649000+08:00","text":"沒有講官話，第一個，台電公司身為一個執行單位，它必須依法來接受相關獨立單位的審查，這個工作在進行之中。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:00.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:40.415000+08:00","text":"當然，但是之前的政策是你們下的，非核家園是你們下的，政治責任是你們要負的，不用歸給台電，台電沒有這樣的責任，是經濟部跟行政院做錯了能源的決定，之前的非核家園就是一個錯誤的政策，現在導正回來，我覺得很好，大家就務實的看待，不要對核電有一些莫須有的罪名，覺得不用核電才是人，不要用這種政治意識型態，我只希望大家很務實的、理性的看待我們的能源，而且更重要是我們今天是討論空污的議題，未來燃煤的比例一定要下降，謝謝。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:43.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:43.478000+08:00","text":"謝謝王育敏委員的質詢。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:43.978000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:46.835143+08:00","text":"現在請廖偉翔委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}