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Data Center的部分我們目前就是在就是主機的部分大概有123億4年到117年4年編了123億以沙倫的這個AI Data Center那除了這之外還有嗎"},{"start":236.53,"end":252.74,"text":"剛剛講的是不包含就是土建的部分那另外還有其他目前還有已經包含在金創那邊有相關的資源投入所以總共多少嘛你們知道馬斯克他要建立那個算力中心你知道總共花多少錢嗎你們知道多少嗎"},{"start":256.397,"end":283.525,"text":"馬斯克他建算力中心總共花了五十億美金五十億美金就是一千多億台幣啊那你現在是編一百多億嘛對所以我們國家的資源投入是一百多億啊那請問一下你覺得夠嗎各位委員幫我們會再做持續的你已經編到一百一十七年了四年你四年的計畫也才這樣而已啊而且這個算力只會越來越多"},{"start":285.854,"end":301.38,"text":"所以我們現在是會採公司協議的方式跟民間多多合作來去跟民間合作是所以其實感覺上是有點不足啦但第二個問題就是那我們現在國家建制的算力中心如果軟體業者他要來使用的話"},{"start":302.02,"end":328.501,"text":"那是用什麼方式?租?然後補助?還是用什麼方式?我們現在國網中心所擁有的算力中心我們現在有提供一個叫AI WRAP的平台那我們有大略規劃了三分之一的算力是提供給新創的業者或者中小企業他們可以來做申請那我們會有一些補助是補助?對"},{"start":329.541,"end":358.779,"text":"那這是優惠啦會有些優惠那是怎麼樣的優惠他大概價格跟一般他如果去租三大雲的話會差到多少差到多少會差到多少一定比他們便宜啦只是說不會我們因為一定比較便宜我知道啊你難道比較貴人家會跟你租嗎對沒有因為基本上大概是便宜多少為什麼今天你們回答問題都我們都有定價啦那至於說是便宜多少嘛我覺得我沒有記得比例你已經花納稅人的錢建置了對不對是"},{"start":359.059,"end":376.468,"text":"那為什麼要花納稅人的錢建制就是希望能夠透過一些方式去輔導我們產業的發展因為它可能是未來下一顆星星啊你們不是有強調自己AI內閣嗎所以你的租金當然比外國便宜啊不然誰要跟你租我現在問的是你租金大概便宜多少嘛"},{"start":378.32,"end":399.241,"text":"這個我回去查他們的價格一直在變啦因為這個變化很快那我們的定價都出來了你們制定一個政策做一件事情制定了一個政策都沒有去思考說我價格大概定到多少我幫助得了產業喔都沒有去想這個問題喔我現在問理論上這個東西你應該對答如流了還要回去查喔"},{"start":400.686,"end":416.964,"text":"跟委員報告,抒發部這邊有這個篆力的支持那那個部分是透過審查流程是免費的所以是新創來跟抒發部申請都免費是不是?是那審查要件是什麼?審查要件我請這個素產署的同仁跟您補充"},{"start":419.002,"end":431.637,"text":"報告委員我們審查要件就是他的心理性還有他可以產品化這些等等這些對那個產業的發展AI產業發展比較多的這樣子的一些要件那請問一下他申請那個算力有上限嗎"},{"start":433.341,"end":453.02,"text":"我們還是要看就是有上限嗎上限是多少我們大概是用點數來算大概一萬點兩萬點一萬點兩萬點是指什麼一個月一萬點兩萬點不是我們就是一個週期一個週期大概一個月那一萬點一個點數我們大概是算就是十萬Token這樣子十萬Token"},{"start":453.96,"end":471.63,"text":"類似這樣子就是有一個定量因為我們的算力不足所以我們就是用排隊的方式排隊所以就是很有限嘛就講得好像很厲害然後什麼AI那個講了一大堆然後業界真正需要的算力就是很有限嘛然後問個價格也講不太清楚"},{"start":472.31,"end":499.208,"text":"好啦那我知道你們一直在講政府一直在講主權AI 主權AI啦但是說實在的政府當然有發展主權AI的需求啦可是其實業界對於主權AI期望不高啦大家都認為這個跟他們比較沒有關係其實算力才是最相關的你應該如果假設我們想要輔導我們的AI軟體的話真的算力這一塊應該要多投入一些資源比起主權AI啦"},{"start":500.109,"end":504.103,"text":"那我想問一下你們講的主權AI是指大圓模型嗎?"},{"start":506.005,"end":531.435,"text":"跟委員報告主權AI其實不只是大語言模型有沒有包括會包括大語言模型但是更重要的是人才資料算力整合能夠訓練AI的一個能力當然啊當然都需要嘛因為這是一個整體嘛我想請教一下我們現在要建置自己的大語言模型那現在有趕上兩年前的OpenAI嗎"},{"start":536.158,"end":547.129,"text":"誰可以回答書畫部書畫部不能回答嗎你們不是輔導軟體的嗎我們現在的主權AI大圓模型有沒有趕上兩年前的OpenAI"},{"start":547.759,"end":569.041,"text":"委員指的主權AI是指哪一個模型?就是大語言模型我們現在政府的要發展的大語言模型我們在策略上面速發部並不主著重於大語言模型的開發我們著重的是特用型的模型那並不是要去開發一個像OpenAI那樣子的Frontier模型所以我們的主權AI不是大語言模型是特用模型"},{"start":569.942,"end":591.341,"text":"應該是說 如果委員說的主權AI的話我們速發部應該不是在專注在您所定義的這個模型這個上面而是在建構整個台灣主權AI能力包括您剛所提到的人才資料然後資金算力這些能力上面"},{"start":593.163,"end":600.189,"text":"委員剛剛講的主權AI的大語言模型是不是專門指這個台德的部分可能要請鍾圓園來跟您說明那請鍾圓園"},{"start":605.918,"end":634.286,"text":"向委員報告那您剛提到這個OpenAI的模型那我們確實有哪一個OpenAI的模型作為參考的基準它去年有一顆叫做OSS20B的模型那我們拿它來當作一個參考那我們的模型的在一些我們這個公務系統的一些應用上面的服務呢它的這個對於台灣的知識台灣的這個認知的這個能力呢是有超越原版的這個這個OpenAI的這個OSS的模型所以我們現在已經超過"},{"start":635.126,"end":647.508,"text":"超過了OpenAIChap GPT已經超過它了它其中一顆比較小的模型我們有超過它有超過一顆比較小的模型那我講的大語言的模型"},{"start":649.382,"end":675.081,"text":"他是比較小的大型語言模型那加油啦 加油我是那個中業資訊所有人我也是台德跟台德計畫裡面剛剛您講的那個東西我們大型語言模型我們台灣以我們的那個規模我們人口的規模這些東西我們沒有辦法跟Google或者是OpenAI這種大公司來pd這種general的LLM"},{"start":675.521,"end":700.139,"text":"是沒有辦法的我們能做的就是說把他的東西當做一個Foundation Model帶到中油經過Supervised Fine Tuning或Pre-training來帶到中油讓我們的百工百業在中油我們有比較大的軟體公司來做到中油或者是像中原或者是國科會這樣的政府機構來幫助我們的中小企業把上面那種大型營業模型想辦法"},{"start":701.824,"end":729.389,"text":"帶到中油來然後讓中油再做一個平台來支持我們台灣的百工百業所以我們沒有能力因為我們就像剛剛講的 算力我問這個問題主要是這樣就是說我們大家講一個AI講得很大方向很大但是真正落實到大家真正的需求有沒有真的具體的照顧得到就是說就像主權AI喊得很大因為我們每個國家都要主權AI"},{"start":730.549,"end":756.794,"text":"但是實際上做出來的東西大家真的用不用得到還是說其實大部分的人還是會去用比如說Google啊或者是這就是大家關切的問題所以不要談太多口號我跟委員報告一下是有實際用到的比如說我們最近用了一個影像的部分我們就在上游的部分就用YOLOv7 YOLOv9這是我們台灣中研院自己發展出來的世界級的"},{"start":757.754,"end":778.738,"text":"物件真正系統那翼龍電子新竹的上市公司翼龍電子他把它加工以後結合聯發科跟聯詠的12奈米的晶片還有NVIDIA的ORIN的晶片把它合在一起軟硬體結合以後訓練一個中油的平台放在CCTV上面"},{"start":779.198,"end":805.607,"text":"因為以前我們的六都我們的CCDB在譬如說交通中心的話看到都只是看到video但是都沒有做任何的處理但是現在翼龍電的這個系統呢它是等於結合剛剛講的這個軟體跟硬體用台灣本土的帶到中油去它現在這個CCDB是用在高雄的捷運的車廂裡面那這車廂裡面它就可以去觀察車廂裡面的狀態OK 對那這是實際的用途好 謝謝"},{"start":811.947,"end":812.787,"text":"好谢谢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:39:22.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:39:36.235000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請數發部及國科會代表。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:39:36.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:39:39.456000+08:00","text":"有請數發部、國科會上備詢臺。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:39:39.456000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:39:45.976000+08:00","text":"兩位官員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:39:45.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:39:57.762000+08:00","text":"我們現在講AI，其實在臺灣大家都說臺灣的AI算還滿厲害，但是都是在講硬體啦，包括像我們現在股市漲那麼多，其實很多都AI的相關，但都是屬於硬體部分。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:39:58.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:40:17.156000+08:00","text":"但我覺得在軟體這一塊，明明臺灣有很好的條件，可是就臺灣的軟體，我不知道現在政府對於軟體的投入資料有多少，其實在上個世代，像電子支付這些的，臺灣的軟體好像有一些並沒有跟上啦，還有社群媒體等等。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:40:18.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:40:24.523000+08:00","text":"現在AI軟體好不容易又有一個新的機會，到底我們對於AI軟體的輔導或者是給予的資源，有沒有可能出現我們AI軟體的獨角獸？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:40:30.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:40:32.911000+08:00","text":"我覺得政府也應該要去重視這一塊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:40:33.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:40:52.069000+08:00","text":"現在業界比較重視的東西，我要跟兩位講，最主要就是在算力，因為大部分商業的軟體，就是AI軟體，他們要做機器人的話，其實主要還是跟國外的三大雲租用AI算力，而這個費用是非常驚人的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:40:52.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:41:12.197000+08:00","text":"他要做一個對話機器人，比如說，要放在大賣場，然後顧客去和機器人對話，可能是要找產品或是詢問要買的東西在哪裡，要問一些細節，可能只有5分鐘，但是算力就是非常可觀，我不知道數發部知道這個事嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:41:12.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:41:12.357000+08:00","text":"應該知道嘛，對不對？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:41:17.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:41:37.599000+08:00","text":"我們知道業界現在在後端會去對接各個不同的大語言模型，但是在技術的發展中，我們數發部現在也在推進臺灣本土的小語言模型的開發。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:41:37.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:41:39.440000+08:00","text":"你不要答非所問，好不好？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:41:40.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:41:52.313000+08:00","text":"我現在只是在講說，現在我們從業界軟體的需求去探討這件事情，你不用去跟我扯到你有沒有去研發小語言模型，那個是另外一回事啦，不要答非所問。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:41:55.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:42:21.840000+08:00","text":"我們的無限的創意是在民間，如果今天政府能夠站在輔導的立場，知道他們缺什麼，然後來協助他們的話，我們可能就會出現非常多很厲害的AI軟體，甚至可以走向國際跟世界，所以你要去幫忙解決問題，大家現在最care的就是算力嘛，因為現在算力的費用非常可觀，那我想請教一下，我們政府一直在講說要建立算力中心嘛，對吧？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:42:22.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:42:24.883000+08:00","text":"那現在大概是要編列多少預算來做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T12:42:36.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:42:39.396000+08:00","text":"跟委員回報，我們在AI新十大建設裡面大概編列四十幾億……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:42:39.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:42:39.496000+08:00","text":"四十幾億？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:42:39.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:42:41.338000+08:00","text":"編了四十幾億做算力？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:42:41.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:42:43.440000+08:00","text":"你的終極目標是要花多少錢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"何副處長紀芳","start":"2026-04-29T12:42:56.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:07.622000+08:00","text":"報告委員，像我們在沙崙的AI data center的部分，目前在主機的部分大概有123億，為期4年，到117年。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:08.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:08.923000+08:00","text":"4年編了123億？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何副處長紀芳","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:09.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:11.384000+08:00","text":"123億，就是沙崙的這個AI data center。好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:11.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:12.464000+08:00","text":"那除了這個之外還有嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"何副處長紀芳","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:18.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:27.696000+08:00","text":"剛剛講的是不包含土建的部分，另外還有包含在晶創那邊有相關的資源投入。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:28.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:28.836000+08:00","text":"所以總共多少嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:30.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:34.420000+08:00","text":"你們知道馬斯克建立算力中心總共花了多少錢嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:34.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:34.740000+08:00","text":"你們知道多少嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:38.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:45.819000+08:00","text":"馬斯克建算力中心，總共花了50億美金，50億美金就是一千多億臺幣啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:46.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:49.160000+08:00","text":"那你現在是編一百多億？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:49.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:51.481000+08:00","text":"所以我們國家的資源投入是一百多億啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:52.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:54.182000+08:00","text":"那請問一下，你覺得夠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:55.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:43:57.823000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們還是會持續，我們會再做持續的……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:43:57.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:01.964000+08:00","text":"你已經編到117年了，4年的計畫也才這樣而已啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:04.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:05.505000+08:00","text":"而且這個算力只會越來越多，不是嗎？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:07.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:12.036000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在是會採公私協力的方式，跟民間多多合作來去……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:12.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:13.656000+08:00","text":"跟民間合作？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:14.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:25.461000+08:00","text":"所以其實感覺上是遠遠不足，但是第二個問題就是，現在國家建置算力中心，如果軟體業者要來使用的話，是用什麼方式？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:26.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:28.323000+08:00","text":"租，然後補助？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:29.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:30.925000+08:00","text":"還是用什麼方式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:31.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:49.720000+08:00","text":"現在國網中心所擁有的算力中心有提供一個叫做AI RAP的平台，我們有大略規劃了三分之一的算力，是提供給新創的業者或中小企業，他們可以來申請，我們會有一些補助。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:50.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:50.501000+08:00","text":"是補助？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員炳宇","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:52.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:52.922000+08:00","text":"我們會有一些優惠。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:53.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:44:53.903000+08:00","text":"是怎麼樣的優惠？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:44:54.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:01.547000+08:00","text":"價格跟一般比，比如說，去租三大雲的話，會差到多少？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"姚副主任志民","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:02.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:04.329000+08:00","text":"一定比他們便宜啦，只是說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:05.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:08.612000+08:00","text":"一定比較便宜，我知道啊，難道你比較貴，人家會跟你租嗎？對。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"姚副主任志民","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:09.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:09.412000+08:00","text":"基本上……對啊。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:09.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:10.553000+08:00","text":"那大概是便宜多少？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:11.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:12.754000+08:00","text":"為什麼今天你們回答問題都……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姚副主任志民","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:13.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:15.416000+08:00","text":"我們都有定價啦，至於說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:15.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:16.276000+08:00","text":"是便宜多少嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:18.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:20.759000+08:00","text":"你已經花納稅人的錢建置了，對不對？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:21.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:22.960000+08:00","text":"為什麼要花納稅人的錢建置？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:23.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:32.345000+08:00","text":"就是希望能夠透過一些方式去輔導我們產業的發展，因為它可能是未來的下一顆新星啊，你們不是都強調自己是AI內閣嗎？是。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:32.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:35.566000+08:00","text":"所以你的租金當然比外國便宜啊，不然誰要跟你租？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:36.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:38.268000+08:00","text":"我現在問的是你租金大概便宜多少。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姚副主任志民","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:40.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:47.968000+08:00","text":"這個我回去查，因為他們的價格一直在變，因為這個變化很快，那我們的定價都出來了。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:48.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:45:57.377000+08:00","text":"你們制定一個政策，做了一件事情，制定了一個政策，都沒有去思考價格大概定到多少能幫助得了產業，都沒有去想這個問題。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:45:57.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:01.221000+08:00","text":"我現在問，理論上這個東西你應該對答如流了，還要回去查喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:02.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:09.834000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，數發部這邊有算力的支持，那個部分是透過審查流程，是免費的。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:10.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:14.459000+08:00","text":"所以這個是新創來跟數發部申請都免費，是不是？是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:16.321000+08:00","text":"那審查要件是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:16.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:18.944000+08:00","text":"審查要件我請數產署的同仁跟您補充。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:21.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:31.615000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們審查要件就是它的新穎性，還有可以產品化等等，這些對於AI產業發展比較多助益的一些要件。好。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:31.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:33.637000+08:00","text":"那請問一下，他們申請算力有上限嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:35.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:35.942000+08:00","text":"我們還是要看……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:36.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:37.363000+08:00","text":"有上限嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:37.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:38.444000+08:00","text":"上限是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:39.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:42.088000+08:00","text":"我們大概是用點數來算，大概10,000點、20,000點。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:43.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:44.170000+08:00","text":"10,000點、20,000點是指什麼？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:44.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:45.351000+08:00","text":"一個月10,000點、20,000點？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:45.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:46.652000+08:00","text":"不是，就是一個週期。","quality":1},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:47.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:53.739000+08:00","text":"一個週期大概大概1個月，一個點數我們大概是算10萬tokens。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:54.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:55+08:00","text":"10萬tokens？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:55.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:56.281000+08:00","text":"類似這樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:56.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:46:57.261000+08:00","text":"就是有一個定量。","quality":1},{"speaker":"巫副組長建恒","start":"2026-04-29T12:46:57.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:02.844000+08:00","text":"因為我們的算力不足，所以我們就是用排隊的方式。排隊？對。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:02.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:04.365000+08:00","text":"所以就是很有限嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:04.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:14.410000+08:00","text":"就講得好像很厲害，什麼AI內閣講了一大堆，然後業界真正需要的算力就是很有限嘛，然後問個價格也講不太清楚。好啦。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:15.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:39.968000+08:00","text":"我知道政府一直在講主權AI、主權AI，但是說實在的，政府當然有發展AI的需求，可是其實業界對於主權AI期望不高，大家都認為這個跟他們比較沒有關係，其實算力才是最相關的，假設想要輔導我們的AI軟體的話，比起主權AI，算力這一塊真的應該要多投入一些資源。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:42.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:46.103000+08:00","text":"那我想問一下，你們講的主權AI是指大語言模型嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:48.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:51.806000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，主權AI其實不只是大語言……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:51.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:52.806000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:52.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:53.806000+08:00","text":"是不是大語言？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:52.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:47:53.607000+08:00","text":"有沒有包括？","quality":1},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:47:54.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:01.950000+08:00","text":"會包括大語言模型，但是更重要的是人才、資料、算力整合，能夠訓練AI的一個能力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:02.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:05.452000+08:00","text":"當然啊，當然都需要，因為這個是一個整體嘛！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:06.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:13.435000+08:00","text":"那我想請教一下，我們現在要建置自己的大語言模型，那現在有趕上兩年前的OpenAI嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:18.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:18.398000+08:00","text":"誰可以回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:20.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:22.162000+08:00","text":"數發部不能回答嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:22.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:25.926000+08:00","text":"你們不是輔導軟體的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:25.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:29.109000+08:00","text":"我們現在的主權AI大語言模型有沒有趕上兩年前的OpenAI？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:29.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:32.862000+08:00","text":"委員指的主權AI是指哪一個模型？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:32.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:35.665000+08:00","text":"就是大語言模型，我們現在政府要發展的大語言模型。","quality":1},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:35.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:48.058000+08:00","text":"在策略上面，數發部並不著重於大語言模型的開發，我們著重的是特用型的模型，並不是要去開發一個像OpenAI那樣子的frontier模型……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:48.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:48:51.021000+08:00","text":"所以我們的主權AI不是大語言模型，是特用模型？","quality":1},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:48:51.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:49:13.321000+08:00","text":"應該是說，如果委員說的主權AI的話，我們數發部應該不是專注在您所定義的這個模型上面，而是在建構整個臺灣主權AI能力，包括您剛剛所提到的人才、資料、資金、算力這些能力上面。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:49:15.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:49:19.227000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛講的主權AI的大語言模型是不是專門指TAIDE？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"侯次長宜秀","start":"2026-04-29T12:49:21.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:49:21.969000+08:00","text":"可能要請中研院來跟您說明。好。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:49:22.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:49:22.189000+08:00","text":"那請中研院。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"黃副研究員瀚萱","start":"2026-04-29T12:49:27.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:49:54.985000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，您剛剛提到的OpenAI的模型，我們確實有拿一個OpenAI的模型做為參考的基準，去年有一顆叫做OSS 20B的模型，我們拿它來當作一個參考，我們的模型在一些公務系統的應用上面的服務，對於臺灣的知識、臺灣的認知能力是有超越原版的OpenAI的OSS的模型。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:49:55.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:00.492000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在已經超過了OpenAI、ChatGPT？對。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"黃副研究員瀚萱","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:01.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:05.040000+08:00","text":"其中一顆比較小的模型已經超過了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:05.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:06.924000+08:00","text":"有超過一顆比較小的模型？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:07.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:09.488000+08:00","text":"那我講的大語言模型呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃副研究員瀚萱","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:11.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:14.184000+08:00","text":"它是比較小的大語言模型。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:17.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:18.728000+08:00","text":"好，那加油啦。加油。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:19.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:50:38.242000+08:00","text":"委員，我是中研院資訊所的所長，我也是TAIDE計畫裡面的一員，剛剛您講的那個東西，大語言模型，以我們臺灣人口的規模，我們沒有辦法跟Google或OpenAI這種大公司來匹敵這種general的LLM，是沒有辦法的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2026-04-29T12:50:38.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:51:13.786000+08:00","text":"我們能做的就是把它的東西當作一個foundation model，經過supervised fine-tuning或pre-training來帶到中游，讓我們的百工百業……因為在中游有比較大的軟體公司，或是由中研院或國科會這樣的政府機構來幫助我們的中小企業，把上面那種大型語言模型想辦法帶到中游來，然後讓中游做一個平台，來support我們臺灣的百工百業，所以我們沒有能力，因為就像剛剛講的算力部分……","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:51:14.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:51:26.348000+08:00","text":"我問這個問題，最主要是這樣啦，就是說，我們大家講AI，講得很大，方向很大，但是真正落實到大家真正的需求，有沒有真的具體地照顧得到？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:51:27.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:51:35.290000+08:00","text":"就像主權AI，喊得很大聲，因為每個國家都要主權AI啊，但是實際上做出來的東西大家真的用不用得到？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:51:35.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:51:45.771000+08:00","text":"還是說，其實大部分的人還是會去用，比如說Google或其他的AI，這個是大家關切的問題，所以不要喊太多口號。是。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2026-04-29T12:51:45.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:52:47.407000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，是有實際用到的，比如說，我們最近用了一個影像的部分，我們就是在上游的部分就用YOLOv7、YOLOv9，就是我們臺灣中研院自己發展出來的世界級的物件偵測系統，新竹的上市公司義隆電子把它加工以後，結合聯發科跟聯詠的12奈米晶片，還有NVIDIA的Orin晶片，合在一起，軟硬體結合以後，訓練一個中游的平台，放在CCTV上面，因為以前我們的六都的CCTV，比如說交通中心的話，都只是看到video，但是都沒有做任何的處理，但是現在義隆電的這個系統等於結合剛剛講的軟體跟硬體，用臺灣本土的帶到中游去，現在這個CCTV是用在高雄捷運的車廂裡面，就可以觀察車廂裡面的狀態，這是實際的用途。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-04-29T12:52:47.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T12:52:53.947000+08:00","text":"OK，好，謝謝。好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:52:54.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:52:57.304143+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:52:57.604143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:52:59.032714+08:00","text":"請官員回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:52:59.332714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:04.189857+08:00","text":"蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員，蔡易餘委員不到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:53:04.489857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:09.918429+08:00","text":"今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:53:10.218429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:12.218429+08:00","text":"報告及詢答完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:53:12.518429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:18.804143+08:00","text":"委員所提書面質詢或相關資料，均列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:53:19.104143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:29.389857+08:00","text":"對於委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或未及答復的部分，請相關機關儘速以書面答復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:53:29.689857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:37.118429+08:00","text":"報告委員會，今日議程全部處理完畢，大家辛苦了，現在休息，散會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T12:53:37.418429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T12:53:38.561286+08:00","text":"休息（12時53分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}