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信號是39分雖然連續亮出了第4顆的紅燈 卻是比上個月"},{"start":35.291,"end":61.666,"text":"下滑了2分那也是最近這10個月來首度轉落所以我們進一步的觀察也就是中東的地緣政治跟原物料一直在上漲波動的這個情況那所以呢影響到這個下半年來幾乎大家都是轉去保守我們也看到外銷訂單的動向也出現了這個減緩那所以在整個你的營業的這個氣候測驗點呢"},{"start":64.628,"end":66.871,"text":"由穩定綠燈轉為黃藍燈那這顯示除了AI的相關產業之外我們的傳統產業也已經出現了觀看"},{"start":78.666,"end":94.239,"text":"光芒還有降溫的這個現象產生那所以可以說是產業間的級距是差距越來越大在這樣的一個情況之下如果我們只是以AI的出口動能跟內需的"},{"start":95.44,"end":114.117,"text":"來作為這些的一個支撐那換句話說在整個你們定調為第二季的景氣是穩健的那會不會導致成在總體是樂觀但是在結構它是轉弱的所以本席首先要請教主委"},{"start":114.778,"end":133.425,"text":"也就是當製造業信心轉弱外銷的動能也趨緩的情況之下傳統產業已經出現明顯的這個觀望期的時候那你要怎麼去做怎麼去應對如果我們只是還是以AI出口支撐整個"},{"start":134.665,"end":156.114,"text":"這一個景氣那對外來說是穩健的我相信這樣子的一個景氣的一個判讀是在整個反映所有的產業它是有落差的所以請教主委也就是說未來你在整個看景氣是不是會調整這個指標也提出了分產業的景氣的判讀機制請說"},{"start":162.897,"end":178.143,"text":"這個部分因為我們那個景氣指標有包含所謂的製造業跟服務業那甚至前一陣子我們都還要再考慮說是不是要把中興院的那個PMI把它放進來這樣子那我想就依照目前的這個指標來講的話"},{"start":180.325,"end":204.967,"text":"經過一定的那一個專家學者去做調整那我們也會再請教專家學者是不是要做這樣一個分類啦但目前看起來是看起來是還算是一個穩定的就是說它的燈號其實跟著我們的經濟的整個的成長發展其實是還算有一些match啦所以這就是剛才本席跟你討論的總體你是樂觀你穩健但是它的結構是在衰落"},{"start":205.768,"end":220.566,"text":"那我們應該是要也要看到結構在衰落的時候政府要怎麼協助他所以換句話說你的景氣燈你到底要怎麼樣去分類要怎麼樣加入這些元素我們才能夠真正協助到所有的產業"},{"start":222.047,"end":248.913,"text":"你們去思考你剛剛也說了要加注幾個幾個這個因子項目會那你把你們預計要怎麼做尤其在我們的傳統產業裡頭本席是非常非常的關注而且一定要協助他們台灣今天之所以能夠有這樣的一個經濟規模傳統產業是功不可沒功不可沒所以我們在這個階段的時候一定要全面的去照顧他們"},{"start":250.813,"end":260.64,"text":"對 跟委員報告就是說我上任之後的話其實對於中經院做的那個PMI其實我故意把它分兩個一個是半導體 一個是非半導體這個就對了嘛就是連你景氣產業景氣燈你也要去分啦才能夠真正看到產業的一個實際狀況嘛"},{"start":269.466,"end":293.935,"text":"方教士一樣 你們去看方法怎麼樣來順便資料給本席接下來本教跟你討論的地方創生因為在這個3月13號的時候呢2026年地方創生日的主題論壇上面也提出我們很多的年輕人全力的參與這個地方創生但是呢 似乎現在還停滯在階級化的一個思維"},{"start":294.955,"end":319.125,"text":"那同時國會會當天也代表人也說了補助不可能永久的補助但是我們在思考如果我們的制度不做實時應變的時候當補助不見的時候我們這些年輕人該當怎麼辦該當怎麼辦你們自己單位都在論壇裡頭來提出所以我個人要跟你討論的就是說"},{"start":321.897,"end":344.594,"text":"計畫導向要怎麼樣來可以取代產業導向這個非常重要受訓了一段時間那麼跟地方的情境來結合跟產業來結合我們要怎麼樣去協助參與創生的這些人他有產業的一個導向我覺得這一點非常的重要因為現在好像變成是補助驅動的專案競爭專案競爭所以"},{"start":353.841,"end":375.339,"text":"這個部分跟委員分享就是說我們其實都會把地方創生的團隊我們會嘗試的讓他培養出一套的那個商業模式那在商業模式經營之前的話我們會嘗試的把地方創生團隊跟企業做對接所以在這邊跟委員報告就是說在去年我們剛好跟那個證交所"},{"start":375.979,"end":393.155,"text":"有討論過就是說地方創生這個部分是不是可以在那個ESG裡面讓我們放幾個例子政交所他同意了所以目前大家可以在那個政交所的網站上面看到有兩個範例是地方創生的範例所以這個可以指引企業的資金進入到地方創生"},{"start":394.756,"end":407.965,"text":"對 你務必要這麼做不然你只有計畫導向你培訓這些人要做什麼呢萬一你的補助款沒有了那怎麼辦呢所以你的產業導向這一點是非常非常的重要因為從補助導向"},{"start":409.986,"end":427.366,"text":"改為方向是產業存活跟營收導向這個才是我們真正的結果論所需要的嘛好這個一定要朝這個方向最後一個議題我跟您討論也就是我們最近這個AI的大發展那國會會呢也主導這個大型的這個語言"},{"start":430.569,"end":448.983,"text":"這個Tidy的這個部分大概是4億元那整體的發展好像到目前為止都是停滯在示範跟政策宣示的這個部分幾乎大概是如此那所以就像比如說我們現在要開發這個國產地圖我們認為高德的地圖現在資深問題禁用那之前有這個語言模型的這個例子"},{"start":458.47,"end":482.075,"text":"到現在我們要開發自己的國產地圖這就非常好但是我們的成效要怎麼去做我們也希望是基於產業的需求的評估來落實才能夠真正達到研發出來能夠讓要用的人可以落實的到可以實際行動用的到嘛是不是啊"},{"start":482.856,"end":497.436,"text":"對 完全同意那個委員的說法 因為也有一些業者跟我們反應就是說他們其實對於高德這樣的一個APP 其實他們覺得它裡面的東西其實我們都可以做 只是說在台灣其實市場相對比較小 他們"},{"start":498.337,"end":516.217,"text":"沒有那個商業價值去開發但是不是說沒有商業價值開發就不開發一些像這種智慧交通的這種系統所以他們目前其實在充分應用我們政府比如說內政部的內政部所提供一些3D高清高高3D的那個圖資去開發他們"},{"start":518.78,"end":539.319,"text":"的進一步開發那個智慧交通這一部分的APP所以未來的話所提供的不會說只是看到說我們要在那邊等多少秒以後是會有一個比較順暢的一個所以主委談到這裡也就是說本期希望每一分錢都是人民的納稅錢本期之所以提出大型的語言這個模型"},{"start":542.021,"end":566.125,"text":"花了四億但是大家不要用大家認為GDP還比這個好用所以本期也就是希望勉勵這個我們要開發的時候一定要落實到可以實用而不是只有把錢花完就沒人要用這對不起人民的好謝謝謝謝楊瓊瑩委員主委先請回座"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T10:59:07+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:59:09.021750+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-30T10:59:09.021750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:59:11.043500+08:00","text":"請國發會葉主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T10:59:11.043500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:59:13.065250+08:00","text":"楊委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T10:59:13.065250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:59:15.087000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T10:59:15.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:00:12.570000+08:00","text":"首先，4月28日你們公布了3月份景氣對策信號是39分，雖然連續亮出第四顆紅燈，卻是比上個月下滑了2分，也是最近這十個月來首度轉弱，所以我們進一步觀察，發現是中東的地緣政治跟原物料一直在上漲、波動的情況，影響到這下半年來，幾乎大家都是轉趨保守，我們也看到外銷訂單的動向也出現減緩，所以整個營業景氣的測驗點由穩定的綠燈轉為黃藍燈。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:00:12.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:00:33.693000+08:00","text":"這顯示除了AI的相關產業之外，傳統產業也已經出現了觀看、觀望還有降溫的這個現象，可以說產業間級距的差距是越來越大。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:00:34.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:00:58.055000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，如果我們只是以AI的出口動能跟內需作為這些的支撐，換句話說你們對整個第二季的景氣是定調為穩健的，這會不會導致成在總體是樂觀，但是在結構卻是轉弱的？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:00:58.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:01:15.003000+08:00","text":"所以本席首先要請教主委，當製造業信心轉弱，外銷的動能也趨緩的情況之下，傳統產業已經出現明顯觀望期的時候，你要怎麼去做呢？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:01:15.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:01:16.903000+08:00","text":"怎麼去應對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:01:16.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:01:33.890000+08:00","text":"如果我們還是只以AI出口支撐整個景氣，對外來說是穩健的，相信這樣對景氣的判讀對於反映所有的產業是有落差的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:01:34.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:01:43.114000+08:00","text":"所以請教主委，未來你在看整個景氣的時候是不是會調整這個指標，並提出分產業判讀景氣的機制？請說。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:01:50.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:02:02.522000+08:00","text":"因為那個景氣指標有包含所謂的製造業跟服務業，甚至前一陣子我們都還在考慮是不是要把中經院的那個PMI放進來。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:02:03.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:02:25.241000+08:00","text":"我想，依照目前的指標來講，它有經過專家學者去做一定的調整，我們也會再請教專家學者是不是要做這樣的分類，但目前看起來還算是穩定的，它的燈號跟著我們整個經濟的成長發展其實還算是有一些match啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:02:25.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:02:31.747000+08:00","text":"所以這就是剛才本席跟你討論的，總體你是樂觀、你穩健，但是它的結構是在衰弱。對。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:02:32.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:02:47.566000+08:00","text":"我們應該也要看到結構在衰弱的時候，政府要怎麼協助它，所以換句話說，對於景氣燈你到底要怎麼去分類，要怎麼樣加入這些元素，我們才能夠真正協助到所有的產業？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:02:49.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:04.030000+08:00","text":"你們去思考，你剛才也說了，會加註幾個因子、項目，那你把你們預計要怎麼做……尤其在我們的傳統產業裡頭，本席是非常、非常關注的，而且一定要協助他們。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:04.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:10.051000+08:00","text":"臺灣今天之所以能夠有這樣的經濟規模，傳統產業功不可沒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:10.051000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:11.912000+08:00","text":"對，這個我同意委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:11.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:15.913000+08:00","text":"所以我們在這個階段的時候，一定要全面去照顧他們。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:17.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:26.399000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我上任之後對於中經院做的PMI，有故意把它分兩個，一個是半導體，一個是非半導體。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:26.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:26.560000+08:00","text":"這就對了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:26.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:27.560000+08:00","text":"對，我會嘗試把那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:26.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:27.620000+08:00","text":"這就是連你的景氣產業、景氣燈也要去分啊，才能夠真正看到產業的實際狀況嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:27.620000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:36.466000+08:00","text":"這個我們會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:36.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:03:39.987000+08:00","text":"好，方向是一樣，你們看方法要怎麼做，順便送一份資料給本席。好。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:03:40.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:04:00.935000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要跟你討論的是地方創生，3月13號在2026年地方創生日的主題論壇上面也提出，我們有很多年輕人全力參與地方創生，但是現在似乎還停滯在接計畫的思維。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:04:02.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:04:20.003000+08:00","text":"同時國發會當天的代表人員也說了，不可能永久的補助，但是我們在思考，如果我們的制度不時時應變的話、當補助不見的時候，這些年輕人該當怎麼辦？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:04:20.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:04:33.660000+08:00","text":"你們自己的單位都在論壇裡提出，所以我個人要跟你討論的就是，計畫導向要怎麼樣才可以取代產業導向？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:04:34.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:04:35.222000+08:00","text":"這個非常重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:04:35.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:04:50.393000+08:00","text":"受訓了一段時間，地方的情境要跟產業結合，我們要怎麼樣去協助參與創生的這些人，他有產業的導向，我覺得這一點非常地重要。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:04:50.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:04:51.574000+08:00","text":"因為現在好像變成是補助驅動的專案競爭，所以主委的看法呢？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:05:00.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:05:06.646000+08:00","text":"就這個部分跟委員分享，我們其實都會把地方創生的團隊嘗試讓它培養出一套商業模式。","quality":0.622},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:05:06.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:05:29.185000+08:00","text":"在經營商業模式之前，我們會嘗試把地方創生團隊跟企業對接，所以在這邊要跟委員報告的是，去年我們剛好有跟證交所討論過，地方創生這個部分是不是可以在ESG裡面讓我們放幾個例子？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:05:30.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:05:40.134000+08:00","text":"證交所同意了，所以目前大家可以在證交所的網站上面看到兩個地方創生的範例，這個可以指引企業的資金進入到地方創生，可以去活絡……","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:05:41.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:05:46.759000+08:00","text":"對，你務必要這麼做，不然只有計畫導向，培訓這些人要做什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:05:47.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:05:50.081000+08:00","text":"萬一你的補助款沒有了要怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:05:50.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:06:05.395000+08:00","text":"所以你的產業導向這點是非常非常重要的，因為從補助導向改為產業存活跟營收導向，這才是結果論所真正需要的嘛！是。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:06:06.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:06:07.338000+08:00","text":"一定要朝這個方向去做。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:06:07.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:06:20.311000+08:00","text":"最後一個議題我跟你討論，有關最近AI的大發展，國科會也主導大語言模型TAIDE的這個部分，大概有4億元。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:06:21.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:06:31.520000+08:00","text":"整體的發展到目前為止好像都停滯在示範跟政策宣示的這個部分，大概幾乎是如此。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:06:32.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:06:34.862000+08:00","text":"比如我們現在要開發國產地圖，我們認為高德地圖現在有治安問題而禁用。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:06:35.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:06:52.932000+08:00","text":"之前有語言模型的例子，現在我們要開發自己的國產地圖，這非常好，但是我們的成效要怎麼去做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:06:53.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:07:09.055000+08:00","text":"我們也希望是基於對產業需求的評估來落實，才能夠真正達到研發出來能夠讓要用的人可以落實得到，可以實際行動用得到，是不是啊？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:07:09.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:07:56.950000+08:00","text":"對，完全同意委員的說法，也有一些業者跟我們反映，他們覺得高德這個app裡面的東西其實我們都可以做，只是臺灣的市場相對比較小，沒有那個開發的商業價值，但也不是沒有開發的商業價值就不開發像這種智慧交通的系統，所以他們目前也在充分應用政府比如像內政部所提供的一些3D高清圖資，以進一步去開發智慧交通這部分的app，所以未來所提供的，就不會只是看到我們要在那邊等多少秒，而會有一個比較順暢的……","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-30T11:07:57.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:08:28.581000+08:00","text":"主委，談到這裡，本席希望每一分錢都是人民的納稅錢，本席之所以提出這個大語言模型花了4億，但是大家卻不用，大家認為ChatGPT還比這個好用，所以本席希望、也勉勵你們在開發的時候一定要落實到可以實用的程度，而不是只把錢花完卻沒人要用，這是對不起人民的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-04-30T11:08:31.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:08:31.043000+08:00","text":"對，謝謝委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-30T11:08:31.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T11:08:33.105000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員，主委請先回座。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-30T11:08:33.605000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T11:08:36.747857+08:00","text":"下一位請鄭正鈐委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}