{"error":false,"id":["169582"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169582,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169582","日期":"2026-05-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-25T09:15:38+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-25T09:25:21+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fad20b8d851f264dc7d1acac99a88e20c4e9f7a0e3ecb7b5fdcc00de8abda21bea8a73a6fda787c85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:15:38 - 09:25:21","會議時間":"2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、\t審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案。\n二、\t審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、\t審查115年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預算案。\n【進行詢答及處理；預算提案請於5月19日中午12時前提出】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":3.94596875,"end":4.3678437500000005,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":5.80221875,"end":13.547843750000002,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":13.902218750000003,"end":22.238468750000003,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":22.37346875,"end":24.33096875,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":23.52096875,"end":27.01409375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":26.54159375,"end":33.02159375,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":29.309093750000002,"end":29.81534375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":30.895343750000002,"end":31.789718750000002,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":33.02159375,"end":33.05534375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":33.05534375,"end":33.072218750000005,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":33.072218750000005,"end":33.13971875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":33.13971875,"end":33.713468750000004,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":33.190343750000004,"end":33.612218750000004,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":33.713468750000004,"end":33.74721875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":33.74721875,"end":33.915968750000005,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":33.915968750000005,"end":35.90721875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":44.12534375,"end":110.37659375000001,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":44.85096875,"end":45.17159375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":45.17159375,"end":45.306593750000005,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":65.69159375000001,"end":65.96159375,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":111.16971875,"end":111.18659375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":111.18659375,"end":111.32159375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":111.32159375,"end":111.60846875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":111.60846875,"end":112.43534375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":113.31284375000001,"end":115.99596875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":116.95784375000001,"end":120.18096875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":120.13034375000001,"end":176.56034375000002,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":141.00471875,"end":141.05534375000002,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":141.05534375000002,"end":141.10596875000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":141.10596875000002,"end":141.24096875,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":176.74596875,"end":180.59346875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":181.06596875000002,"end":183.68159375000002,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳組長文泉","start":184.54221875000002,"end":190.24596875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳組長文泉","start":190.61721875,"end":211.13721875000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":196.40534375000001,"end":197.50221875000003,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":210.61409375000002,"end":215.33909375000002,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳組長文泉","start":213.80346875,"end":218.71409375000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":217.46534375000002,"end":233.76659375000003,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳組長文泉","start":234.30659375000002,"end":243.55409375000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":240.80346875,"end":241.19159375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":243.36846875,"end":284.18909375000004,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳組長文泉","start":284.34096875,"end":296.17034375000003,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":294.92159375,"end":338.07096875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":310.96971875,"end":311.57721875000004,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":311.69534375,"end":312.13409375000003,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":326.35971875,"end":326.84909375,"speaker_score":0.726},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":339.21846875,"end":347.40284375000005,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":348.17909375000005,"end":348.51659375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":348.51659375,"end":350.92971875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":350.99721875,"end":351.60471875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":352.58346875,"end":355.43534375,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":355.43534375,"end":447.91034375000004,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":449.41221875,"end":451.09971875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":452.43284375,"end":457.93409375000005,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":457.93409375000005,"end":466.35471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":466.54034375000003,"end":468.93659375000004,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":466.94534375,"end":467.26596875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":469.07159375000003,"end":473.86409375000005,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":473.37471875000006,"end":474.91034375000004,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":475.14659375,"end":483.78659375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":475.26471875000004,"end":475.53471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":483.78659375,"end":492.32534375000006,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":486.57096875,"end":488.27534375000005,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":492.32534375000006,"end":495.59909375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":495.71721875000003,"end":500.29034375000003,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":497.69159375000004,"end":534.64784375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":521.3840937500001,"end":521.41784375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"高院長梓木","start":521.45159375,"end":521.46846875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":521.46846875,"end":522.2278437500001,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":534.09096875,"end":534.52971875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":535.10346875,"end":560.21346875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":559.42034375,"end":563.50409375,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":563.50409375,"end":563.9428437500001,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":563.65596875,"end":577.25721875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":564.1284687500001,"end":564.3647187500001,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":573.6965937500001,"end":573.88221875,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳主任委員明真","start":576.70034375,"end":582.8090937500001,"speaker_score":0.892},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":582.7922187500001,"end":584.29409375,"speaker_score":0.981}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.843,"end":29.735,"text":"因為那個高鐵續號異常所以我們有非常多的委員沒有辦法趕上所以委員可能召委可能要特別十點半登記截止可能要稍微寬容一下因為有很多人跟我反應他們需要更長的時間因為現在在台中的還沒發動好不好有接到這樣的訊息所以說那個最後這個截止的時間可能不是十點半因為今天這是突發狀況對所以不能歸責於委員是所以我們會等他們來"},{"start":33.279,"end":35.753,"text":"好,我們是不是請我們的主委"},{"start":44.178,"end":58.803,"text":"主委好,我很少在一個會期當中看主委這麼多次不過今天是我們的預算,非看你不可來我們來看一下,從你剛剛所報告的我們核安會每年都會在核物料管制業務當中編列的一部預算嘛,對不對主要是要辦理有關於放射性廢棄物的最終儲存的計畫跟應變那你目前為止今年是編了2343萬"},{"start":69.887,"end":77.133,"text":"但是這件事情我也不斷的質詢過貴單位但是我對台電這個做法是非常的消極然後他們對於所謂的最終儲存還有其實是中途其實態度都不是太積極然後你們一開始是罰錢後來變成是違規事項然後再變成更軟的注意改進事項你根本完全不痛不癢的"},{"start":92.284,"end":110.158,"text":"那比较让我困惑的就是你对他的消息态度没辙但是你对这项预设你反而是越编越多每年越编越多然后你现在不管说最终处置到底没有进展而且三座核电厂当中的终成目标的干储存设施目前的推动有任何的进展吗主委我们核安会对这个"},{"start":117.351,"end":140.663,"text":"各项计划都会持续的没有啊你的态度都非常消极预算越变越多我先告诉你你看我们这样核二用过的燃料棒目前只能是先放在炉心燃料池但是燃料池已经满了但是你看看核二项目前有规划重启势必你必须要把这样这个核燃料棒把它移出所以室外干除跟室内都非常的重要"},{"start":141.263,"end":163.575,"text":"所以说呢到底预计什么时候可以完工什么时候可以取得这个运转的执照而且我还是一次问不止室外的钢纯室内的干除有必要性那三座核电厂目前来说室内干除进行招标然后呢台电告诉大家是二零二八二零二九二零三二完成但不好意思我们来看一下一已经流标两次"},{"start":164.235,"end":183.456,"text":"去年合一合二联合招标又流标三次然后呢又延诞四年合三百年是去年要绝标今年也已经绝标也要今年所以到底这个干事组的设施都往后拖延那请问何岸慧你的监督的机制到底在哪里我们钱会给啊但是你一定要有所作为啊"},{"start":184.922,"end":210.659,"text":"跟委員說明一下那目前核一的乾式儲存我們已經核發運轉執照所以它正在運轉核二部分我們在3月6號已經同意它試運轉那試運轉完以後它遇到試運轉結果它就會來跟我們申請運轉執照那我們的審查時間大概需要三個月三個月後我們就"},{"start":210.999,"end":233.413,"text":"這個月號現在目前為止是五月所以我們期望在新的會期九月的時候可以看得到他目前還在做試運轉因為我們要給預算嘛我當然要拿出你們的這個績效出來嘛一直不斷的流標而且更不要講下面一個更令人意外的部分這個室內的儲存這個儲存的招標疑似某一些的壓力然後呢決定要給日系的NAC團隊有這件事嗎"},{"start":234.686,"end":262.719,"text":"跟委員說明NAC是美國公司目前核二廠的乾式室外乾儲就是NAC公司得標是正在那個試運轉的那為什麼有特別的報導這是我們引述媒體的報導我想因為台電目前沒有做出一個澄清所以我們有必要在質詢台上來問個清楚那這樣子的一個乾式儲存的這個系統目前看起來是沒有辦法裝載這個招標當中所有的規範所以說呢他們認為是違反這個招標的文件的要求那"},{"start":263.439,"end":283.966,"text":"你们核安会目前掌握的状况是如何而且我也知道最后还是要通过核安会的这个最后的审查但是我们不希望全部都完成之后然后呢核安会说告诉我这不符合规定我们不需要发生这样的状况所以现在就要预警来告知你们这个时候有办法预先了解整个招标过程然后这个厂商是不是符合规定有办法做到这一点吗"},{"start":284.406,"end":308.672,"text":"可以跟委員說明NAC公司的產品經過美國核管會的審定在美國有四家廠商四家電力公司你把這些資料給我因為就我們的理解裡面它所過去承載的這個經歷履歷各方面來說能夠承載出這樣子一個所謂的乾除的這樣一個標準目前來說顯然是跟我們的認知有些落差所以我要求核安會把你所"},{"start":309.252,"end":332.92,"text":"知道部分送一份報告給本席好不好這一點是非常的重要我們只希望積極而且在這個核電有可能再一次重啟的過程裡面我們每一個細節我們不需要因為延大或是招標出現大家有所質疑的地方而讓整個的流程因此而受到很大的影響這是我們最終的目標可以啊把這個目標還有它的裡面的這個細節全部給本席一份還有呢接下來我還是要問到這個預算了核電重啟的這個目前為止來說的話已經送交了再預算計劃嗎沒錯嘛 主委"},{"start":339.278,"end":350.771,"text":"好 那如果是送再运转的预算一样嘛你们第二这个核二的重启计划跟审查小组的成员跟核三是同一批人吗核二核三是同一批人 审查的人员是一样吗"},{"start":352.657,"end":368.929,"text":"因為核二還沒提出來所以我們會另外再規劃為什麼我要提出來因為你們現在人力完全不足嘛這點你們都不需要承認嘛我們來看看你看在你們這個目前來說的話未來五年內持有持住的人員既臨退休而且很多的運轉高級反應器運轉的人數年體就只剩下20個人"},{"start":371.351,"end":399.504,"text":"低于标准规范的21然后我更要讲说2026的时候你们只剩下17而且呢这家合三的小组成员除了现有的河安会专业人力之外你们外部增加19个人当中外部单家里面呢就7人是河安会及国务院会员原来的退休人物还包括你们的记证处长等等之类的所以我就说嘛长期我们没有培养河安人才目前为止就面临了我们中间人力很大的不足嘛那你们有任何的问题我们就往下面去看嘛"},{"start":399.944,"end":412.167,"text":"你们的技术人员还有包括你们的研究人员跟你们学的预算跟实际约合都有很大的部分永远补不足而且越来越严重哎你看然后呢国研院情况更加严峻113年改进之后呢技术人员缺了达到77人往后几乎每年都有50人没有补满的所以到41到我们今年4月底的时候有49名人补满"},{"start":422.97,"end":447.859,"text":"这就是我们长期我一直不断的强调过去我们有的包括组委还有在场非常多人的嘛对不对都是我们河工非常优秀的人才长期因为这样的delay即使你再重启我们的人力还是不足目前这样所看到的就是如此嘛不是吗完全没有前战线来规划我们河岸的人才这个问题你怎么解决我们愿意给大家钱啊可是你每次都补不足啊这怎么办这怎么办这是个事实吧"},{"start":453.624,"end":468.353,"text":"這個斷財 斷成了這麼嚴重我們又不但用資深 資深沒有問題但是新進的人員在哪裡呢報告委員我們經過七四 從112年經過七四的召集我們人員一直穩定維持在900個人那問題是為什麼 那我 難道我的資料是錯誤的嗎"},{"start":470.014,"end":492.046,"text":"因為這個有些是原來專資人力我們原來有200你把所有的人力因為這個時間的關係你把所有的人力你真實的人力你若覺得這個資料是有問題但是人力不足這是個事實嗎完全補滿這是個事實吧現在我們還透過國外現在有沒有不足還是我們今年還是持續要補足五六十位"},{"start":492.386,"end":520.963,"text":"然后呢已经达到你刚出刚我们预算的预算的原额了吗哎还差60位我们是嘛才差60位嘛我们每一年都给你钱可是每次都没有所以这个问题我们要好好讨论我只是告诉大家合工的人才非常的重要但是长期过去10年15年造成这样的一个结果你现在要找到这个人而且说实在的资深的人都退不掉心情的人因为你还要再加上了这个所谓的给他再训练的时间这是我们人力最大的匮乏这是我们今天最大的一个问题哎"},{"start":521.503,"end":547.705,"text":"不是只有核料棒不是只有燃料棒的問題人力也是一個很大的問題我們等一下在審預算的時候就好好給本席一個真實你們真的覺得人力上的缺乏裡面最重要的一個因素好不好 謝謝讓我補充一下我們對於人力補充方面我們核安會以及國安院我們請清華大學來給我們開碩士的學分班現在有40幾個人在進修這個學位"},{"start":550.367,"end":564.739,"text":"这是我们补充人力的一个方法我们也鼓励清华大学多收一些学生也争取很多研究经济等等我们尽量努力今年去年再开始硕士班然后来补足这个部分好这就是我们现在"},{"start":565.399,"end":582.379,"text":"培养人才的一个目标非常的太短视了但是总比没有好我还是要强调这是长期对人力培养完全没有前瞻完全缺乏的一个最重要的一个表现现在我们也将努力来填补这方面的空缺谢谢委员的指教"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:15:43.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:15:59.951000+08:00","text":"時間先暫停一下，因為高鐵訊號異常，我們有非常多的委員沒有辦法趕上，所以召委，10時30分發言登記截止可能要稍微寬容一下，因為有很多人跟我反映他們需要更長的時間，現在臺中的車還沒發動，好不好？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:00.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:01.451000+08:00","text":"有接到這樣的訊息。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:01.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:04.973000+08:00","text":"所以最後截止登記的時間可能不是十點半。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:05.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:07.274000+08:00","text":"因為今天這是突發狀況，所以不能歸責於委員。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:07.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:07.735000+08:00","text":"我們會等他們來，謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:11.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:11.279000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:12.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:13.733000+08:00","text":"是不是請我們的主委？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:13.733000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:22.178000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:22.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:22.418000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:23.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:29.661000+08:00","text":"我很少在一個會期當中看主委這麼多次，不過今天是審查預算，非看你不可。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:16:30.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:16:55.113000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，除了你剛剛所報告的，核安會每年都會在核物料管制業務當中編列一筆預算，主要是辦理有關於放射性廢棄物最終貯存的計畫跟應變，目前為止，今年是編了2,343萬，這件事情我也不斷地質詢過貴單位，但是對於台電的做法，我覺得是非常的消極，他們對於所謂的最終貯存，還有中途，其實態度都不是太積極，你們一開始是罰錢，後來變成是違規事項，然後再變成更軟的注意改進事項，根本完全不痛不癢的。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:17:10.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:17:27.938000+08:00","text":"比較讓我困惑的是，你對它的消極態度沒轍，但是你對這項預算反而是越編越多，每年越編越多，然後現在不管是最終處置到底沒有進展，而且三座核電廠當中的中程目標的乾貯存設施，目前的推動有任何進展嗎？主委。","quality":0.618},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-05-25T09:17:27.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:17:37.672000+08:00","text":"我們核安會對各項計畫都會持續的……","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:17:38.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:17:38.473000+08:00","text":"沒有啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:17:39.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:17:41.414000+08:00","text":"你的態度都非常消極，預算越編越多。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:17:41.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:18:03.665000+08:00","text":"我先告訴你，你看我們在核二用過的燃料棒，目前只能先放在爐心燃料池，但是燃料池已經滿了，而核二現在規劃重啟，勢必要把核燃料棒移出，所以室外乾貯跟室內都非常重要，因此，預計什麼時候可以完工、什麼時候可以取得運轉執照？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:18:04.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:18:08.628000+08:00","text":"而且我一次問，不只室外的乾貯，室內的乾貯也有必要性。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:18:09.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:18:38.312000+08:00","text":"三座核電廠以目前來說，室內乾貯進行招標，台電告訴大家2028年、2029年、2032年完成，但是不好意思，我們來看一下，核一已經流標2次，去年核一、核二聯合招標又流標3次，然後又延宕4年，核三本來是去年要決標，今年也已經要決標，這個乾式貯存設施都往後拖延，請問核安會，你的監督機制到底在哪裡？","quality":0.539},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:18:39.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:18:41.435000+08:00","text":"我們錢會給，但是你一定要有所作為啊！","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:18:42.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:18:55.190000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，目前核一的乾式貯存，我們已經核發運轉執照，所以它正在運轉，可以做……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:18:55.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:18:56.111000+08:00","text":"好，核二，核三呢？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:18:56.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:08.639000+08:00","text":"核二的部分，我們在3月6日已經同意它試運轉，試運轉完以後，依照試運轉結果，它就會來跟我們申請運轉執照，我們的審查時間大概需要3個月，3個月後，我們就……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:08.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:13.102000+08:00","text":"3個月後，目前為止是5月，所以我們期望在新的會期9月的時候可以看得到。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:13.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:15.723000+08:00","text":"它目前還在做試運轉，因為……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:15.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:31.413000+08:00","text":"因為我們要給預算，你當然要拿出你們的績效出來，一直不斷地流標，更不要講下面一個更令人意外的部分，室內貯存的招標疑似某一些壓力，決定要給日系NAC團隊，有這件事嗎？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:32.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:34.887000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，NAC是美國公司。OK。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:35.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:41.030000+08:00","text":"目前核二廠的室外乾貯就是NAC公司得標，正在試運轉的……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:41.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:19:49.094000+08:00","text":"那麼為什麼有特別的報導，這是我們引述媒體報導，因為台電目前沒有做出澄清，所以我們有必要在質詢臺上問個清楚。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:19:50.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:20:03.500000+08:00","text":"這樣子一個乾式貯存的系統，目前看起來是沒有辦法裝載招標當中所有的規範，所以他們認為是違反招標文件的要求，你們核安會目前掌握的狀況是如何？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:20:03.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:20:21.706000+08:00","text":"而且我也知道最後還是要通過核安會的審查，但是我們不希望全部都完成之後，結果核安會告訴我這不符合規定，我們不希望發生這樣的狀況，所以現在就要預警來告知，你們這個時候有辦法預先了解整個招標過程，然後這個廠商是不是符合規定，有辦法做到這一點嗎？","quality":0.622},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:20:22.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:20:23.726000+08:00","text":"可以，跟委員說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2026-05-25T09:20:24.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:20:32.889000+08:00","text":"NAC公司的產品經過美國核管會的審定，在美國有4家電力公司……","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:20:32.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:20:49.273000+08:00","text":"你把這些資料給我，因為就我們的理解，它過去所承載的經歷、履歷，以各方面來說，能夠承載出這樣一個所謂乾貯的標準，目前來說，顯然是跟我們的認知有些落差，所以我要求核安會把你所知道的部分送一份報告給本席，好不好？可以。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:20:49.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:04.438000+08:00","text":"這件事非常的重要，我們只希望積極，而且在核電有可能再一次重啟的過程裡面，就每一個細節，我們不希望因為延宕或是招標而出現讓大家有所質疑的地方，讓整個流程因此受到很大的影響，這是我們最終的目標，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:04.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:07.959000+08:00","text":"把這個目標還有裡面的細節，全部給本席一份。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:08.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:10.900000+08:00","text":"接下來我還是要問到預算，關於核電重啟，目前已經送交了再運轉計畫，沒錯嘛？主委。是的。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:17.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:25.067000+08:00","text":"好，如果是送再運轉計畫，核二重啟計畫的審查小組成員，跟核三是同一批人嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:26.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:27.510000+08:00","text":"核二、核三是同一批人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:27.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:28.531000+08:00","text":"審查人員一樣嗎？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:30.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:33.619000+08:00","text":"因為核二還沒提出來，所以我們會另外再規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:33.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:34.420000+08:00","text":"為什麼我要提出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:34.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:37.082000+08:00","text":"因為你們現在人力是完全不足，這點你們都必須要承認。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:38.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:50.251000+08:00","text":"你看，未來5年內持照的人員屆齡退休，而且高級反應器運轉員的人數年底就只剩下20人，低於標準規範的21人。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:51.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:21:53.333000+08:00","text":"我更要講2029年的時候，你們會只剩下17人。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:21:54.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:22:07.699000+08:00","text":"而且這次核三小組的成員除了現有核安會專業人力之外，在外部專家19個人當中，就有7人是核安會及國原院的退休人物，還包括你們的技正、處長等等之類的。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:22:08.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:22:14.843000+08:00","text":"所以我就說，長期沒有培養核安人才，目前為止就面臨了中間人力很大的不足。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:22:16.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:22:17.324000+08:00","text":"我們再繼續往下看。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:22:17.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:22:25.226000+08:00","text":"你們的技術人員與研究人員在預算員額跟實際員額上都有很大的差距，永遠補不足，而且越來越嚴重。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:22:25.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:22:30.107000+08:00","text":"你看，國原院情況更加嚴峻，112年改制之後，技術人員缺額達到77人，往後幾乎每年都有50人沒有補滿，到今年4月底的時候還有49人沒有補滿。","quality":0.604},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:22:41.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:22:57.336000+08:00","text":"我一直不斷地強調，過去包括主委還有在場非常多人都是我們核工非常優秀的人才，長期因為這樣的delay，即使再重啟，我們的人力還是不足，目前所看到的就是如此，不是嗎？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:22:58.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:01.897000+08:00","text":"完全沒有前瞻性地規劃我們的核安人才，這個問題怎麼解決？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:02.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:05.399000+08:00","text":"我們願意給大家錢，可是你們每次都補不足，這怎麼辦？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:05.399000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:06.399000+08:00","text":"這怎麼辦？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:05.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:05.839000+08:00","text":"這是個事實吧！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:11.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:15.686000+08:00","text":"人才斷層得這麼嚴重，你們又不斷用資深的人員，資深沒有問題，但是新進的人員在哪裡呢？","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:16.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:24.011000+08:00","text":"報告委員，從112年經過7次的召集，我們的人員一直穩定維持在900個人……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:24.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:26.353000+08:00","text":"問題是為什麼……難道我的資料是錯誤的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:28.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:31.155000+08:00","text":"因為這個有些是原來專職人力……我們原來有兩百……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:31.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:41.581000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，請你把你們所有的人力、真實的人力……你如果覺得這個資料是有問題的，但是人力不足，這是個事實，完全補不滿，這是個事實吧？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:42.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:44.743000+08:00","text":"現在我們還透過國防替代役，還有國外……","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:44.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:45.743000+08:00","text":"有沒有不足？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:44.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:46.304000+08:00","text":"現在有沒有不足？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:47.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:50.026000+08:00","text":"我們今年還是持續要補足五、六十位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:50.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:53.308000+08:00","text":"然後已經達到當初的預算員額了嗎？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:54.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:23:55.569000+08:00","text":"還差60位，我們上半年已經……","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:23:55.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:24:01.012000+08:00","text":"是，還差60位，我們每一年都給你錢，可是每次都沒有補足，所以這個問題我們要好好討論。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:24:01.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:24:18.563000+08:00","text":"我只是告訴大家核工的人才非常重要，但是長期過去10年、15年造成這樣的結果，你現在要找到相關的人才，而且說實在的，資深的人都退不掉，新進的人還要再加上再訓練的時間，這就是我們人力最大的匱乏，這是我們今天最大的問題。","quality":0.67},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:24:21.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:24:33.735000+08:00","text":"不是只有燃料棒的問題，人力也是一個很大的問題，等一下在審預算的時候，就好好給本席一個你們真的覺得人力缺乏裡面最重要的因素，好不好？好。謝謝。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-05-25T09:24:33.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:24:34.456000+08:00","text":"讓我補充一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-05-25T09:24:36.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:24:50.609000+08:00","text":"對於人力補充方面，我們核安會及國原院請清華大學來給我們開碩士的學分班，現在有四十幾個人在進修這個學位，這是我們補充人力的方法。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-05-25T09:24:50.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:24:57.214000+08:00","text":"我們也鼓勵清華大學多收一些學生，也要爭取很多研究經費等等，我們儘量努力，我知道……","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:24:57.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:25:08.926000+08:00","text":"去年、今年才開始用碩士班來補足這個部分，這就是我們現在培養人才的目標，太短視了，但是有總比沒有好。","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2026-05-25T09:25:09.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:25:15.053000+08:00","text":"我還是要強調，這是長期對人力培養完全沒有前瞻、完全缺乏的最重要表現。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2026-05-25T09:25:15.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-25T09:25:20.359000+08:00","text":"現在我們也努力來填補這方面的空缺，謝謝委員的指教。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T09:25:20.859000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T09:25:25.144714+08:00","text":"謝謝柯志恩委員的質詢，請主委回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-25T09:25:25.444714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-25T09:25:29.444714+08:00","text":"接下來有請陳培瑜委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}