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10:51:36","會議時間":"2026-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。\n三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。\n四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算。\n五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管通訊傳播監督管理基金預算。\n六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金預算。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答；開會事由一至六預算提案截止收件時間：6月10日下午4時】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":3.8615937500000004,"end":7.40534375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":13.41284375,"end":13.53096875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":13.53096875,"end":13.58159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":13.58159375,"end":13.817843750000002,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":13.817843750000002,"end":13.88534375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":13.88534375,"end":13.98659375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":14.138468750000001,"end":15.488468750000003,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":15.657218750000002,"end":80.92971875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":81.26721875,"end":85.41846875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":85.06409375000001,"end":104.21721875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":104.47034375000001,"end":137.17409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":137.95034375,"end":174.58596875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":172.81409375,"end":173.43846875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":174.85596875000002,"end":175.95284375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":176.61096875,"end":199.52721875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":190.75221875000003,"end":190.83659375000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":200.15159375000002,"end":241.25909375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":240.14534375000002,"end":241.63034375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":241.32659375000003,"end":245.29221875000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":245.35971875,"end":245.37659375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":245.41034375,"end":263.63534375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":259.58534375,"end":260.14221875000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":263.61846875000003,"end":283.80096875000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":284.13846875,"end":307.00409375000004,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":288.52596875,"end":288.79596875000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":297.95909375,"end":298.04346875000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":307.39221875000004,"end":316.84221875000003,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":316.89284375,"end":331.03409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":331.54034375000003,"end":342.07034375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":333.75096875,"end":334.00409375000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":341.22659375,"end":341.56409375000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":342.25596875,"end":342.98159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":343.72409375,"end":348.75284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":348.31409375000004,"end":356.93721875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":356.58284375,"end":356.81909375000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":356.93721875,"end":357.67971875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":358.00034375,"end":362.13471875000005,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":362.20221875000004,"end":362.99534375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林部長宜敬","start":362.99534375,"end":363.61971875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"徐委員富癸","start":363.61971875,"end":372.42846875000004,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","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有請我們書報部的林部長好 請林部長委員長早安部長早部長 是這個現在進入AI的時代是所以你們相關的業務我想未來也會面對很多的壓力跟這個責任是那尤其我想現在目前我們對岸對於我們這個文攻武嚇甚至作戰的威脅從來沒有消失過"},{"start":31.77,"end":59.466,"text":"是 所以我知道我們署發部今年也特別陣列了這個數位政府的資安生態防護的一個推動計畫還有政府的數位韌性的強化計畫資安質疑的AI化計畫還有我們相關的網路主動式防禦的一個關鍵研究計畫這些的經費大概高達六億五千多萬是但是目前根據我們審計部113年的中央政府總預算的一個審核報告"},{"start":61.448,"end":80.207,"text":"關於這個關鍵基礎設施的各項的一個領域的資通的一個安全通報途徑尚未一致而且對於我們這個領域資安防護的基準也還沒有訂立一個標準所以我個人認為是部長這個資安署對於我們這個APP的資安管理目前還是面臨很大的一個問題"},{"start":81.388,"end":102.493,"text":"是不是有面臨人力上的問題還是怎麼樣一個技術上的問題可不可以先說明一下我們現在那個資安署對APP的檢測是主要是以那個中資APP那為什麼我們都檢測那個中資APP為主呢第一個就是因為依照那個中國的那個國家情報法第七條的規定就是說那個"},{"start":104.634,"end":121.581,"text":"就是中國的人民或者是組織都有支持協助與配合國家情報工作的責任他意思就是說我們這個民眾上傳到中國的伺服器的資料中國政府隨時可以去調研而且是為了情報工作都可以我們認為這是一個相當大的風險"},{"start":122.521,"end":136.995,"text":"那我們現在一方面是在檢測一些中資的APP那另外一方面我們是希望把這個制度跟這個技術把它建立起來那如同剛才委員所講的我們現在的確是檢測的速度比較慢那我們希望能提高這個量能"},{"start":138.144,"end":167.324,"text":"部長我覺得檢測的速度真的不能慢這個非常涉及到國安的一個危機那尤其我想你們上個禮拜公布了這個四款的中資APP的資安的檢測結果確實發現這些APP在即使關閉的狀況之下還是會持續進行背景的一個資料收集甚至把我們相關的一些通訊錄甚至一些傳輸資料還是會傳送到中國境內的伺服器就表示他們這是有計謀式的一個修正"},{"start":167.944,"end":173.17,"text":"是那我們以高的地圖為例我想這個問題我也在委員會追蹤了很久是從所有的檢測項目裡面不管是"},{"start":176.87,"end":199.144,"text":"安卓系統或是我們iOS系統各檢出了甚至有8項到11項的這個問題點那所以現在目前我知道我們政府部門我們是公開禁止這些的APP但是一般民眾使用率還是很高那面對我們速發部除了提醒民眾小心這樣的一個警語之外有沒有更積極的作為"},{"start":200.679,"end":228.559,"text":"我們現在除了禁止公務部門使用以外我們譬如說在校園裡面我們也會透過教育部的教育的網路我們就是在學校裡面Wi-Fi都會阻絕這些有高風險的這些APP另外在iTaiwan由政府資助的免費的Wi-Fi的網路我們接下來也會都把這些高風險的這些APP給攔阻那我覺得最重要的還是民眾要知道說"},{"start":229.159,"end":244.979,"text":"有多大的風險因為如同剛剛委員所講的我手機都已經那個把這個APP關掉了結果他還在背景裡面還在蒐集我們這些資料我想一般民眾如果真的知道這個實情的話他知道這個實情的話一定會覺得說這個是非常不應該的事情"},{"start":246.241,"end":262.682,"text":"我記得我上次資訊部長的時候,部長你特別有說未來要啟動跨部會的協調,甚至國安部相關的部會進行這樣的一個業者進行一個適當的一個隱蔽的一個措施,那目前你有邀集Apple、Google跟微軟這些系統來開會了嗎?"},{"start":263.683,"end":283.406,"text":"有 我都有跟他們開過會那我們也會跟那個因為這個主責機關還有這個是國防部那國防部那邊會有一些他的考量到底是哪些要怎麼樣處理地圖要怎麼處理這個我們已經跟國防部討論過那國防部那邊會有他們的政策考量跟處理他會告訴我們要如何要處理"},{"start":284.167,"end":300.156,"text":"部長,因為我還是要提醒一件事情,你看像我們圖面上,我們的國防機密,肉依,都呈現在這個圖字上面,那因為中國製的APP他們在台灣,通常沒有設立分公司,也沒有一個合法落地的一個代理商,"},{"start":300.896,"end":316.429,"text":"那所以未來針對這樣的一個無落地代理甚至直接境外提供服務的一個高風險的APP作為我們的主管機關難道我們沒有任何的實質管轄權嗎未來要怎麼因應這些的有可能發現國安危機的一個問題怎麼來做防範"},{"start":316.969,"end":341.364,"text":"事實上如果說有這種狀況的話那個感謝委員提供這個訊息我們會去跟他溝通請他們移除這些資料然後如果他們拒不配合的話那我們當然就是可以依照我們這個國家的法律要求Apple跟那個Google把他這個App下架部長我覺得我們一定要有強硬的手段要不然你要求他們不理你的話你也沒辦法我們要有一些行政手段怎麼處理啊是"},{"start":344.003,"end":357.163,"text":"我原說的沒錯啊所以那個如果他們拒不配合我們就會要求把他的APP下架甚至我們應該主動是不是來警告下架封鎖我們也要我們自己的作為啦是好不然我想這個你要採取強硬的手段好不好是了解謝謝"},{"start":358.035,"end":386.054,"text":"部長 那我請教一下你們最近有沒有聽到很多年輕人在養龍蝦有 當然有齁 是你自己有養嗎有 有養有養齁對於這樣的一個養龍蝦的一個這個open crowd的部分你自己個人這個是好事還是壞事這個事情齁因為它的影響力非常大因為以前的這個深層次AI都只能陪我們聊天那現在譬如說我要去日本旅遊七天的話以前他只能幫我規劃行程他現在幫我規劃行程以後他直接會幫我訂機票"},{"start":388.275,"end":410.698,"text":"幫我處理好了能力非常大但是也非常的危險因為他也會那個刷我的信用卡一不小心他就把我的信用卡刷了一個大洞出來事實上我本身就遇過這個事情所以站在你的角度你認為這是一個數位分身好的工具嗎還是認為這是未來有可能是一個自然的另外一個我們沒有辦法防範的一個漏洞"},{"start":411.638,"end":430.063,"text":"它的確是一個數位分身事實上已經到實體的分身的那個數位跟實體合體的分身它能力很大但是現在因為這個一個新的技術出來的時候通常資安就有很多很多的漏洞那我在三月的時候去美國參加這個RACC那個全世界最大的資安大會幾乎整場大家都在談那個龍蝦的資安問題"},{"start":433.164,"end":458.365,"text":"那這個也是很大的商機但是短期之內真的是風險非常大在短期之內除非自己有比較強的信心要小心很小心但是我們現在就是積極的讓跟台灣的資安業者還有當然有國外的業者合作我們希望趕快把這些資安的防範因為是新出現的技術把這個通通做起來而且這個會是本身資安就是一個商機"},{"start":459.606,"end":487.209,"text":"陳如部長剛剛講的部長你自己也有在養龍蝦你也發現這個不管是上網調用工具甚至買賣股票都非常的好用但是我們資安運上個禮拜也有公布了這樣的一個資安檢測的一個報告也證明了我們目前AI代理人的工具非常脆弱如果說這個網頁有被植入所謂一個隱藏語意的一個指令有可能你在電腦裡面所有的資料你瀏覽過的東西甚至信用卡的憑證一瞬間就"},{"start":488.63,"end":516.612,"text":"是 我原本講的完全沒錯那怎麼辦因為你是專業 你知道怎麼防範一般鄉親不曉得年輕人現在趨之若鶩怎麼樣避免這些年輕人被受害就是在短期之內要非常非常小心真的是要提醒所有的民眾你去養龍蝦的時候要非常非常小心然後看到那個所有的那個說明還有你安裝新的功能新的那個skill或者是各種那個"},{"start":518.734,"end":531.613,"text":"都要很小心那在中長期我們想辦法就是跟資安產業合作趕快提供一些工具能讓一般的民眾都很方便快速的把這些資安漏洞堵起來這點我還是要提醒部長"},{"start":533.195,"end":556.326,"text":"因為這個絕對會是未來很多人會使用的一個東西一個工具那我們在人工基本智慧基本法裡面有明定你們要推動一個AI風險的一個分類框架這個標準什麼時候會公布這個已經送行政院了然後這個風險分類框架如果順利的話應該什麼時候一個月內"},{"start":558.507,"end":576.054,"text":"應該如果順利的話因為我們已經送行政院了我想未來對於這樣的一個消費型的一個AI工具我想部長我們應該要更積極甚至在我們不同的宣傳媒體裡面要提醒大家好用幾好用啦但是風險很大啦所以要注意啦完全同意感謝委員的提醒好謝謝謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:02.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:42:04.573000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請數發部林部長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:04.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:42:05.113000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:05.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:42:11.638000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:12.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:42:12.678000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:13.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:42:29.210000+08:00","text":"部長，現在進入AI的時代，所以你們相關業務我想未來也會面對很多的壓力跟責任，尤其目前對岸對我們文攻武嚇，甚至認知作戰的威脅從來沒有消失過。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:30.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:42:51.683000+08:00","text":"我知道數發部今年也特別增列了數位政府資安生態防護推動計畫，還有政府的數位韌性強化計畫、資安治理的AI化計畫，還有相關的網路主動式防禦關鍵研究計畫，這些計畫的經費大概高達六億五千多萬。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:42:52.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:43:21.909000+08:00","text":"但是目前根據審計部113年中央政府總預算的審核報告，對於關鍵基礎設施各項領域的資通安全通報途徑尚未一致，而且對於領域資安防護基準也還沒有訂立一個標準，所以我個人認為資安署對於app的資安管理，目前還是面臨很大的一個問題，是面臨人力上的問題還是什麼技術上的問題？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:43:21.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:43:23.089000+08:00","text":"可不可以先說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:43:24.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:43:31.911000+08:00","text":"現在資安署對於app的檢測主要是以中製app為主，為什麼我們都以檢測中製app為主呢？","quality":0.634},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:43:32.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:43:59.581000+08:00","text":"第一個，因為依照中國國家情報法第七條的規定，中國人民或者是組織都有支持、協助與配合國家情報工作的責任，意思就是民眾上傳到中國伺服器的資料，中國政府隨時可以去調閱，只要為了情報工作都可以，我們認為這是一個相當大的風險。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:44:00.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:44:08.228000+08:00","text":"我們現在一方面在檢測一些中製的app，另外一方面，我們希望把這個制度跟技術建立起來。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:44:08.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:44:14.975000+08:00","text":"如同剛才委員所講的，我們現在檢測的速度的確是比較慢，我們希望提高量能。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:44:16.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:44:44.063000+08:00","text":"部長，我覺得檢測的速度真的不能慢，這個非常涉及到國安的危機，尤其你們上個禮拜公布了4款中製app的資安檢測結果，確實發現這些app即使在關閉的狀況之下，還是會持續進行背景的資料蒐集，甚至把我們相關的一些通訊錄，甚至一些傳輸資料傳送到中國境內的伺服器，就表示這是有計謀式的蒐證。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:44:46.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:45:01.814000+08:00","text":"我們以高德地圖為例，我想這個問題我也在委員會追蹤了很久，在檢測項目裡面，不管是安卓系統或是iOS系統，甚至各檢出8項到11項問題點。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:45:02.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:45:17.144000+08:00","text":"目前我知道我們的政府部門公開禁止這些app，但是一般民眾的使用率還是很高，數發部除了提醒民眾小心這樣的一個警語之外，有沒有更積極的作為？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:45:18.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:45:43.336000+08:00","text":"我們現在除了禁止公務部門使用以外，譬如說在校園裡面，我們也會透過教育部的教育網路，就是學校的Wi-Fi都會阻絕這些有高風險的app，另外由政府資助的免費Wi-Fi網路（iTaiwan），我們接下來也會攔阻這些高風險的app。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:45:44.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:45:59.775000+08:00","text":"我覺得最重要的還是民眾要知道這有多大的風險，如同剛剛委員所講的，我手機都已經把app關掉了，結果它還在背景裡面蒐集我們這些資料，我想一般民眾如果真的知道實情的話……","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:45:59.775000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:46:00.775000+08:00","text":"他們不知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:45:59.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:46:02.959000+08:00","text":"他知道這個實情的話，一定會覺得這是非常不應該的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:46:04.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:46:17.077000+08:00","text":"部長，我記得我上次質詢部長的時候，部長也有特別說未來要啟動跨部會的協調，甚至國防部相關部會的業者進行一個適當的隱蔽措施。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:46:17.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:46:20.682000+08:00","text":"目前你有邀集Apple、Google跟微軟這些系統來開會了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:46:21.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:46:41.386000+08:00","text":"有，我都有跟他們開過會，我們也會跟……因為這個主責機關是國防部，國防部那邊會有一些考量，看哪些到底要怎麼樣處理、地圖要怎麼處理，這個我們已經跟國防部討論過，國防部會有他們的政策考量跟處理，他會告訴我們要如何處理。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:46:42.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:46:50.672000+08:00","text":"部長，我還是要提醒一件事情，你看圖面上，我們的國防機密顯露無遺，都呈現在這個圖資上面。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:46:51.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:09.485000+08:00","text":"中國製的app在臺灣通常沒有設立分公司，也沒有一個合法落地的代理商，未來針對這樣的無落地代理，甚至直接境外提供服務的高風險app，作為我們的主管機關，難道我們沒有任何的實質管轄權嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:09.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:13.968000+08:00","text":"未來要怎麼因應這些有可能發現國安危機的問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:13.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:14.429000+08:00","text":"要怎麼防範？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:14.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:28.817000+08:00","text":"事實上，如果有這種狀況的話，感謝委員提供這個訊息，我們會去跟他溝通，請他們移除這些資料，如果他們拒不配合的話，我們當然可以依照我們國家的法律，要求Apple跟Google把這個app下架。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:29.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:39.164000+08:00","text":"部長，我覺得我們一定要有強硬的手段，要不然你要求他們，他們不理你的話，你也沒辦法，我們也要有一些行政手段，看怎麼處理。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:39.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:46.129000+08:00","text":"是，委員說得沒錯，如果他們拒不配合，我們就會要求把它的app下架。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:46.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:51.157000+08:00","text":"我們甚至應該主動警告、下架、封鎖，我們也有我們自己的作為。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:52.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:54.562000+08:00","text":"部長，我想你要採取強硬的手段，好不好？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:54.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:47:55.163000+08:00","text":"是，了解，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:47:56.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:00.398000+08:00","text":"部長，我請教一下，您最近有沒有聽到很多年輕人在養龍蝦？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:00.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:01.238000+08:00","text":"有，當然。有嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:01.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:03.420000+08:00","text":"你自己有養嗎？有養。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:04.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:10.144000+08:00","text":"對於OpenClaw養龍蝦的部分，你個人覺得這是好事還是壞事？","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:11.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:36.345000+08:00","text":"它的影響力非常大，以前的生成式AI都只能陪我們聊天，但現在譬如我要去日本旅遊7天，以前它只能幫我規劃行程，現在幫我規劃行程以後還能直接幫我訂機票、訂旅館等等，通通幫我處理好了，能力非常大，但是也非常危險，因為它也會刷我的信用卡，一不小心就把我的信用卡刷了一個大洞出來，事實上，我本身就遇過這個事情。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:37.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:42.912000+08:00","text":"部長，所以站在你的角度，你認為這是一個數位分身好的工具嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:42.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:48:48.678000+08:00","text":"還是認為這是一個未來在資安我們可能沒有辦法防範的漏洞？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:48:49.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:49:01.281000+08:00","text":"它的確是一個數位分身，事實上已經到數位跟實體合體的分身，它能力很大，但是現在新技術出來，通常資安就有很多漏洞。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:49:02.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:49:08.063000+08:00","text":"我在3月的時候去美國參加全世界最大的資安大會（RSAC），幾乎整場大家都在談龍蝦的資安問題。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:49:11.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:49:20.112000+08:00","text":"這個也是很大的商機，但是短期之內風險真的非常大，短期之內，除非自己有比較強的信心、很小心。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:49:21.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:49:36.365000+08:00","text":"我們現在積極地跟臺灣的資安業者還有國外業者合作，希望趕快把這些資安的防範通通做起來，因為是新出現的技術，而且這個資安本身就是一個商機。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:49:37.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:49:45.493000+08:00","text":"誠如部長剛剛講的，你自己也有在養龍蝦，你也發現不管是上網、調用工具，甚至買賣股票都非常的好用。是。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:49:46.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:49:54.140000+08:00","text":"但是我們資安院上個禮拜公布資安檢測報告，也證明目前AI代理人的工具非常脆弱。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:49:54.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:05.189000+08:00","text":"如果說這個網頁被植入一個隱藏語意的指令，有可能你在電腦裡面所有的資料、瀏覽過的東西，甚至信用卡的憑證，一瞬間就都被拿走了。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:06.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:09.252000+08:00","text":"是，委員講的完全沒錯。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:09.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:09.632000+08:00","text":"那怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:09.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:13.736000+08:00","text":"因為你專業，你知道要怎麼防範，一般鄉親不曉得。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:14.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:18.359000+08:00","text":"年輕人現在趨之若鶩，要怎麼樣避免這些年輕人受害？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:18.359000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:19.680000+08:00","text":"要怎麼處理？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:19.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:37.516000+08:00","text":"在短期之內要非常非常小心，真的要提醒所有的民眾，養龍蝦的時候要非常非常小心，看到所有的說明，還有要安裝新的功能、新的skill，都要很小心。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:38.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:48.592000+08:00","text":"在中長期我們想辦法跟資安產業合作，趕快提供一些工具，讓一般的民眾都很方便、快速地把這些資安漏洞堵起來。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:48.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:50:55.997000+08:00","text":"這點我還是要提醒部長，因為這個絕對是未來很多人會使用的一個工具。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:50:56.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:06.022000+08:00","text":"我們在人工智慧基本法裡面有明定，你們要推動一個AI風險的分類框架，這個標準什麼時候會公布？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:06.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:08.003000+08:00","text":"這個已經送行政院了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:09.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:14.326000+08:00","text":"這個風險分類框架，如果順利的話，應該一個月內……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:14.326000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:16.507000+08:00","text":"一個月內？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:16.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:18.227000+08:00","text":"如果順利的話，因為我們已經送行政院了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:18.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:31.553000+08:00","text":"我想未來對於這樣的一個消費型AI工具，我們應該要更積極，甚至在不同的宣傳媒體裡面提醒大家，好用歸好用，但是風險很大，所以要注意。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:32.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:33.694000+08:00","text":"完全同意，感謝委員的提醒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員富癸","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:33.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:34.034000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:34.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:34.054000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:34.554000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:37.696857+08:00","text":"謝謝徐富癸委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-03T10:51:37.996857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-03T10:51:41.711143+08:00","text":"接下來我們請許智傑委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}