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密集的來檢討現行的制度推動全面新制度來取代校職會議該廢止的 直接你就可以廢止啊你根本不用等我們啊來 請回應 謝謝委員 其實教師會要不要廢止家長團體跟教室團體是有不同意見的所以我們在這個過程裡面也是非常審慎在聆聽各界的意見在做証明聆聽各界的意見我們已經1月3號已經公布了一次現在幾月幾號啊"},{"start":289.141,"end":305.141,"text":"今天幾月幾號啊1月12號今天6月24號你可能不了解新的制度1月12號有修正上路之後到4月底我們又公布新的數據跟去年做比較確實也達到一定的規定數字下降又怎麼樣了嗎大家就沒有再抱怨了嗎公聽會幾月幾號"},{"start":307.043,"end":328.234,"text":"宮廷會幾月幾號宮廷會六月啊 上禮拜嘛如果你校會數字下降了 大家就不抱怨了那宮廷會也不用開 不用排也不會有人來啦結果是什麼在這裡撕報告的撕報告 拍桌子的拍桌子您就是在現場待著 市長啊所以我要跟您分享市長 很好 我謝謝您從頭聽到尾"},{"start":332.136,"end":355.075,"text":"這個教師解聘辦法由備查改為審查兩位召委喔不分藍綠喔公聽會也開了專報今天也排了你如果說數字下降我們武力華召委幹嘛要排專報咧對不對你回答嘛是不是就是還有要解決的事情嘛我們做事情就是要第一步第二步第三步就是來做不好意思喔市長"},{"start":356.116,"end":384.158,"text":"現在已經不是第一步的時間了你剛剛已經講這是長期的抱怨你的修正一月到現在也已經五個月半年快過去了這麼厚一本公聽會的資料字字寫類您剛剛也說了您都在現場這麼多專家沉痛呼籲如果教育部還要堅稱台灣的教育一直在往好的方向改革部長還在說自己好棒棒大家怎麼沒有給我們掌聲如果教育部還是要用片面的"},{"start":385.119,"end":390.858,"text":"這種沒有溫度的數字來證明教育現場的輕師生已經變得更和善"},{"start":391.633,"end":414.369,"text":"那表示什麼這段時間的這些建議我們沒有這樣說我們朝這個方向努力但是我們沒有像您說的敘述的這樣子我敘述的怎麼樣子我敘述的就是你們長時間沒有作為不要只看數字部長說我們做得很好大家沒有給我們掌聲怎麼樣 有老師叫喔新生樂我們還要給你掌聲嗎所以委員你也不要誤解這個我們的努力不要誤解"},{"start":419.813,"end":438.302,"text":"可以回去看部長的質詢他是怎麼提的沒有關係今天次長希望您可以提供給我們一些新的方向我們剛剛給你機會了你也沒有問題沒關係請教次長韓國最近爆紅的鐵拳教育斑斑血淚韓國在2018到2023年我們講數字我們講數字數字你知不知道2018到2023韓國一共幾位教師自殺"},{"start":448.663,"end":453.436,"text":"一百多位一百多位啊這是數字還是戲劇沒有我說你講的對嘛鐵拳劍還是戲劇嘛"},{"start":456.26,"end":485.492,"text":"不用您解釋我也沒有問您這是質詢好 謝謝所以我們要講的是這一百多位教師自殺催生的教權釋法所以這一部戲劇的背景是真實的修法是真實的教權釋法也是真實的我想請教部長2024年台灣中華民國一年的教師自傷自殺的人數是多少我們看到了韓國五年"},{"start":487.697,"end":504.13,"text":"是100多人2024年你們說做得很好啊我們有數字我們來看數字嘛一年自傷自殺多少人而且您公聽會也都聽啦我直接告訴您啦不用看啦我同一篇沒有做啦在這本啦公聽會的第24頁我們的黃理事長鄉縣提到啊"},{"start":509.161,"end":513.27,"text":"台灣2024年校安通報當中自傷自殺的教師有124名啊自傷 自殺"},{"start":518.752,"end":540.033,"text":"這個數字你們還要再定義啦指甲脫落了還是什麼這個數字不嚴重嗎這個數字不需要市長記得嗎教育部是否能參考韓國的做法研議制定相關的修正的法案我們台灣的教權法教權局是想像的啦教權法的修法可以做有沒有機會來研議"},{"start":541.334,"end":565.504,"text":"我們教權那個釋法修法之後其實我們也去了解韓國的現況是他們教師公還是在抱怨就是說還是有一些問題所以我想每一個國家的情況不一樣那我們都不用做了啦我們都不用做了啦立法院成立以來我們所有的法一段一再的修一再的立都有人抱怨讓我們明天 張偉我們是不是都不要開會了"},{"start":566.104,"end":582.858,"text":"所以我們都一直在精進在修正啊怎麼會沒有修正啊所以我在問的問題很具體請問台灣的教權法可不可以研議我不知道你所謂的教權法是指哪一部分包括職業安全參考他們的教權的修法我們有關教書的部分現在還在跟大陸附在研議制定或修正相關的"},{"start":584.54,"end":604.121,"text":"我們也在相關的法案都在研議包括輔導管教辦法我們現在也準備在修那也有座談會的時候也有提出要不要入專法那入專法之前如果他放入廢時我們要修哪一個部分的注意事項或者辦法我們都在研議嘛希望盡快提出啦讓大家有一個感受不要只是看冷冰面的數字好不好"},{"start":604.662,"end":633.761,"text":"那接下來也要看市長討論一個又指紋樓梯響的新政策上禮拜四行政院院會後的記者會左右院長有宣布就是剛剛有很多委員都關心的第五級保全那我們又立即向教育部來索資結果得到的回應再一次一切上代規劃無資料可提供這已經不知道是幾次全國民眾又被教育部呼嚨了從未經行政院核定就登上雜誌大內宣的AI人才方舟計劃"},{"start":634.682,"end":663.962,"text":"到宣布要和中研院一起合作设置的TAS高等研究院计划有很多单位都跟我们讲交易部根本没有跟他们商量就被放进去还被拿来宣传结果到现在在这个会后记者会上宣布第五级保全每一次本席都在报消息曝光媒体大肆刊登现在还到了头条立即向交易部所知每一次答复都是没有内容可以提供我们现在甚至到行公文过去"},{"start":665.002,"end":687.602,"text":"連沒有資料可以提供的公文回覆都直接不回啦難道這個現在是怎麼樣政策做法先喊先贏拔草撤風向我們的教育部變成宣傳部了嗎第五級保全的規劃有太多家長學生在關心那我就問到底這個計畫的細節是什麼何時上路"},{"start":688.263,"end":713.526,"text":"我跟你講這個背景是因為面對新興毒品帶來的挑戰嘛所以行政院在跨部會的會我剛才有提到他就建議說校園的安全維護可以考量納入那納入這個第五級保全的協助建立學校警方企圖之間的合作基礎我們現在目前也有嘛市長很奇怪欸剛剛我在底下聽柯志恩委員在這裡質詢才五分鐘前喔你說不一定"},{"start":714.327,"end":741.898,"text":"你現在突然又來唸說要有第五級保全民眾這樣聽不懂是不是又是一個拔草測風向你如果聽不懂我再說明我剛才講的是說行政院建議校園行政院建議校園那教育部的態度是什麼我們就提出說我們現行已經有這樣的制度我們就一問三不知那我們來請教現行制度下第五級保全是不是就是指承接公家機關國營事業高階防護"},{"start":744.139,"end":764.031,"text":"志願退伍軍人僅職人員或國軍醫護役特種部隊退役年資合計達兩年以上通過三千公尺跑步車椅及其他專業訓練的特種保全是不是這樣的定義是這樣的定義好那我們就請問職責是哪些面向校園有私生衝突的時候他要站在哪一邊"},{"start":768.015,"end":792.29,"text":"我們現在 你講的是我們現在現有的學創人力的工作我們說你怎麼有這個新的政策 你說沒有喔 不一定要執行委員剛才有提過 那是面對新興毒品的挑戰行政院建議可以考慮 不是一個常規的人力然後我說怎麼又有了 你說是建議然後我們說細節是不是這個 你說是這個然後我說那他要做什麼 你說這個不一定要執行 不確定 還在規劃"},{"start":795.208,"end":805.897,"text":"次長沒有關係您回去看一下您的錄影啦沒有講的話我尊重你的職權那您仔細說明他的職責包含哪些面向你剛才說講的那些我沒有說啊"},{"start":806.71,"end":829.938,"text":"怎麼考慮建議要實行 我沒有這樣講嘛你剛剛說建議啊我是說這就是行政院的建議嘛說面對新興國民的挑戰所以行政院建議說考量到校園安全你當然可以考慮可以納入這個第五級保全建議考慮納入嘛然後我問您第五級保全第一的時候您的回應說這已經是現行的"},{"start":830.798,"end":851.918,"text":"不是第五級保全的社會現在有在用嗎你講的是說在銀行在重要的港口的這些所以建議可以考慮然後這是現行的對啊那我就問你既然建議考慮那就會有人採用那採用現行的那我問你職責包含哪些面向私生衝突的時候怎麼辦你又停住了"},{"start":852.458,"end":873.439,"text":"不是 這個是學創人力的工作 我們沒有要引用這個來做的部分這是別人的工作 誰的工作 來 借聽一下你不要這樣子斷章取義 我講的是我哪裡斷章取義我剛才講過是新興毒品嘛 對不對 是面對新興毒品的挑戰那你再唸一次 這是你第三次唸那句話市長你可以再唸一次你再唸一次剛剛那句話 我讓你再唸第三次"},{"start":877.56,"end":897.262,"text":"同樣的話我尊重你的職權不過我想我們沒有講的話透過你的詮釋這樣子我很謝謝我們立法院有錄影啦大家就回去看錄影我們都是在釐清在現場教育人員私生親私生對於教育部行政院的說法不清"},{"start":897.802,"end":924.833,"text":"我們去鎖之也鎖不回來我沒有說是面對新興毒品的挑戰啊你說第五級保全如果是因為你的那一句話的下一句就是第五級保全不是嗎建議核採納你問我說學校的學生的情緒問題要第五級保全我說當然不是嘛我沒有說情緒問題喔請問我剛剛有沒有講情緒問題四個字市長請問我剛剛有沒有講情緒問題四個字我跟你講你有提到說要處理學生的一些相關的事務嘛私生衝突嘛請問"},{"start":927.094,"end":949.779,"text":"第五級保全在校園內要怎麼處理我就是這樣問我沒有講情緒師生衝突就是學創人力或者是老師在處理嘛所以不是教育部的範疇啦是不是不是第五級保全嘛我們沒有要去所以第五級保全我剛剛問的全話是職責包含哪些面向然後如果有師生衝突的時候要如何面對"},{"start":950.539,"end":979.324,"text":"那當然我說這個是學創能力不會用到第五級保全沒關係啦 市長我們回去看一下錄影如果有不足夠不完整的地方希望教育部來提供資料來讓因為我們所知我們所不到所以我們代表民眾我們所取資料是所不到的今天您的回應來來回回我覺得也許有清楚也許有不清楚希望你們再提供啦那這個保全薪資五萬三千元到底是地方支出還是由教育部負擔如果您說是現行制度的話"},{"start":981.129,"end":999.107,"text":"現行製作沒有第五級保全跟委員報告現行的第五級保全是用在銀行或相關的一個產業哇因為這我是提到說目前的這個教官的離退我們有學創人力的引進面對毒品的一個問題謝謝那擔心謝謝您可以先市長"},{"start":1000.709,"end":1011.911,"text":"您剛剛說是現行制度所以這個現行制度有套用在校園嗎我講的現行制度是社會的不是學校的現行制度啦又擴充解釋所以次長我想要告訴你為什麼我們索取資料這麼重要因為不會有我們這樣現場一來一回您可能會誤會我我也許也會誤會您這個其實是不好的好不好所以剛剛我們又理解又擴充理解了所以次長講的現行制度不是校園內"},{"start":1030.515,"end":1042.262,"text":"有第五級保全我可以這樣理解嗎可以好所以大家要回去看錄影不要誤會市長前面的話最後啦還是要來請教不好意思我爭取一點時間因為教師人立方的問題很嚴重啦代理教室105年從11%上升到113年15%國中階段代理教師105年的11%上升到113年的18%我們真的要留住他們我們也很感謝他們幫忙"},{"start":1057.21,"end":1082.492,"text":"那很多代理教師去接手班期是在一個學期裡面他的聘期可能不滿三個月畢竟代理老師是被找來接手的聘期不是掌握在他們的手中那市長請教按照教育部的現行規定我現在講得很清楚按照教育部的現行規定聘期未滿三個月的代理教師在計算薪水的時候也可以和專任教師一樣採計之前的任職年資嗎"},{"start":1084.272,"end":1112.231,"text":"三個月這部分人事委滿三個月不好意思因為這個這個我跟主席爭取一點因為這個全國都在等市長的答覆啦為什麼因為我們秀出的這個圖就是地方至少五個縣市的教育局在發函去問教育部到底這個問題的答案是什麼來請說可以還是不可以宜蘭高雄台中新北台南等五個縣市至少都在發公文搞不清楚狀況"},{"start":1113.132,"end":1140.97,"text":"短期代理教師的話並沒有對因為他是短期未滿三個月到底算不算年資未滿三個月的部分他不算三個月以上的話才是我們的長期代理教師不好意思我們在這個2024年8月9號憲法法庭113年度憲判第7號中小學代理教師前年資職前年資提續案有說答案是可以的"},{"start":1142.071,"end":1161.63,"text":"答案是可以的喔你們有沒有研議過憲判第7號2024年8月從8月1號之後就可以喔而且你們回函給各個縣市都說是可以的喔你們內部有沒有需要搞清楚"},{"start":1163.348,"end":1188.698,"text":"這個不是只是螺絲鬆了會讓很多教師搞不懂因為教職人員不管代理還是專任年資真的很重要尤其還有從A縣市再跑到B縣市的這個很正常我們都有看到真的很辛苦我真的是再次感謝全國的代理教師還有所有的專任教師那這種跨縣市還會有很多的問題所以我訴求很簡單第一"},{"start":1191.125,"end":1208.659,"text":"請教育部盡速統一含資各縣市政府聘期未滿三個月含按日資薪資代理教師比照專任教師納入年資計算如果你們不清楚法律請去看2024年8月9號憲法法庭的113年度憲判制第7號"},{"start":1209.58,"end":1229.479,"text":"第二 請教育部務必於公文內清楚說明本解釋 也就是我們剛剛提到的解釋生效的時間點是民國114年的8月1號起施行也就是合格代理教師享有職前年資提續的時間點避免代理教師事後有爭議 爭取薪資權益的問題"},{"start":1232.242,"end":1250.562,"text":"主管機關或學校勿以教育部發文解釋的時間點起算所以你們要講清楚這個生效的時間點是114年8月1號起實行請次長可不可以當場承諾相關發文程序可不可以在兩週之內完成我再次感謝我們趙偉吳丁華趙偉可以啦可以好不好兩週內完成好不好謝謝好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:31.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:33.146000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請張廖萬堅次長。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:33.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:33.566000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:38.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:38.769000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:39.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:39.570000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:39.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:17.282000+08:00","text":"今天伍麗華召委安排這個專報題目非常用心，是近期爭議極大的校事會議，次長一定知道校事會議的法源依據──高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法（簡稱教師解聘辦法），今年1月23日立法院院會被提議由備查改為審查，這也是我們反映民意的一個作法，這段期間只要有教育部的詢答，就有不分黨派的立委針對校事會議提出各種質疑以反映民意。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:18.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:33.831000+08:00","text":"根據立院職權行使法第十章有關行政命令的審查，教師解聘辦法最終的結果可能就是提報院會，經議決以後通知原訂頒機關，也就是教育部更正或廢止之。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:34.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:41.534000+08:00","text":"次長，作為一個負責的教育主管機關，一定有針對未來可能發生的情況做好通盤計畫跟備案。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:42.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:51.959000+08:00","text":"假設教師解聘辦法在校事會議的部分，經過立法院的決議要更正甚至廢止，請問教育部的計畫和備案是什麼？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:52.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:56.330000+08:00","text":"我們會照這個決議研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:56.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:57.610000+08:00","text":"就是照立法院的決議嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:57.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:02.671000+08:00","text":"那更正的話，預計朝哪些方向、面向進行更正？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:03.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:07.992000+08:00","text":"廢止的話，教育部預計將採取什麼樣的新制度來處理校園事件？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:08.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:13.233000+08:00","text":"我想政策都需要經過充分溝通，你們應該也要做準備啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:13.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:16.714000+08:00","text":"今天給次長一個機會向大眾說明教育部有沒有規劃，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:17.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:20.515000+08:00","text":"你不能講：等你們決定了，我們再說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:20.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:21.455000+08:00","text":"民意已經在那裡了……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:21.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:22.455000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:22.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:23.555000+08:00","text":"所以更正是怎麼更正？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:24.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:25.436000+08:00","text":"廢止的話，是什麼樣的新制度？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:26.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:41.520000+08:00","text":"委員，我想跟你報告，我們歷次的報告就是不斷地在精進，之前發生的一些狀況，所謂的濫訴或者匿名投訴，我們經過檢討之後，1月12日也已經公布了，如果大院還有新的決議，我們當然也會朝這個方向……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:41.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:42.460000+08:00","text":"我們已經拉下來備查了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:43.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:50.927000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在也還在檢討中，我們也在針對這些新的制度實施之後，它所呈現的結果……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:51.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:52.629000+08:00","text":"次長，我給你機會，你沒有回答我耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:52.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:56.554000+08:00","text":"我問你說如果廢止的話，新制度是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:56.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:59.797000+08:00","text":"如果要更正的話，更正方向是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:59.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:00.598000+08:00","text":"你沒有回答我！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:00.598000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:01.598000+08:00","text":"如果廢止……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:01.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:13.106000+08:00","text":"我請學生寫作業，你說我還沒交給你，如果上一次你覺得我寫得不好，我會寫更好；你覺得我寫得好的，我繼續努力；你如果覺得我沒有交，我這次會交。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:14.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:14.947000+08:00","text":"這個有講跟沒講一樣啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:16.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:18.529000+08:00","text":"更正，往什麼方向更正？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:19.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:21.651000+08:00","text":"廢止，新制度是什麼？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:21.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:22.131000+08:00","text":"有沒有答案？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:22.131000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:23.131000+08:00","text":"我想更正就是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:22.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:23.512000+08:00","text":"還是就沒有答案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:23.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:24.112000+08:00","text":"那你就直接講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:24.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:25.053000+08:00","text":"更正就是修正嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:25.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:27.895000+08:00","text":"修正我們目前都在做、一直積極在做。對嘛！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:29.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:33.498000+08:00","text":"我覺得這不是一個很好的示範，但是沒有關係，你們作業還沒做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:33.498000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:34.498000+08:00","text":"我們作業一直都在做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:34.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:35.299000+08:00","text":"或假設你說我們正在做……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:35.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:35.899000+08:00","text":"積極在做。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:36.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:40.462000+08:00","text":"沒關係，民眾痴痴地在等，我們來合作……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:40.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:41.383000+08:00","text":"我們一直在做。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:41.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:53.113000+08:00","text":"我們來合作，這邊向次長提供一個良好的案例，錯誤的政策除了等待立法院的決議，原機關更正或廢止之外，其實行政部門是可以採取積極作為的。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:53.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:03.985000+08:00","text":"去年2月NCC貿然上路一個收費新制，把耳機、手機，二類的射頻器材加收了……額外要繳交750元審查費，民怨沸騰，稱750之亂。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:07.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:26.305000+08:00","text":"後來NCC在本席及多名跨黨派立委的關切之下，於5天後直接宣布停徵相關費用，並且啟動退費作業程序，這就是行政部門迅速回應民意的作法，所以部會不是只能被動地依據立法院的決議辦理。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:27.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:41.233000+08:00","text":"次長，針對校事會議的議題，教育部有沒有可能參考先前我們看到的NCC的作法，即刻回應民意，立即檢討現行的制度，推動全面新制度取代校事會議，該廢止的直接你就可以廢止啊！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:41.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:42.374000+08:00","text":"你根本不用等我們哪！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:43.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:44.195000+08:00","text":"請回應，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:44.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:54.439000+08:00","text":"其實校事會議要不要廢止，家長團體跟教師團體是有不同意見的，所以我們在這個過程裡面，非常審慎在聆聽各界的意見做修正。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:55.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:56.319000+08:00","text":"好，聆聽各界意見……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:56.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:58.780000+08:00","text":"我們1月12日已經公布了一次，我們……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:59.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:59.441000+08:00","text":"現在幾月幾號啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:00.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:01.242000+08:00","text":"今天幾月幾號？1月12日……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:01.242000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:02.242000+08:00","text":"今天幾月幾號？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:01.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:02.744000+08:00","text":"今天6月24日啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:04.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:12.617000+08:00","text":"委員，你可能不了解，新的制度1月12日有修正，上路之後，到4月底我們又公布新的數據，跟去年比較確實也達到一定規格的成果。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:12.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:14.259000+08:00","text":"數字下降又怎麼樣了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:14.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:15.961000+08:00","text":"大家就沒有在抱怨了嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:15.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:16.141000+08:00","text":"公聽會是幾月幾號？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:16.141000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:20.244000+08:00","text":"公聽會是上個禮拜……","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:20.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:21.085000+08:00","text":"公聽會6月啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:21.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:21.885000+08:00","text":"上禮拜嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:21.885000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:22.885000+08:00","text":"上個禮拜，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:22.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:27.988000+08:00","text":"如果你校事會議的數字下降了，大家就不抱怨了，那公聽會也不用開、不用排，也不會有人來啦！","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:28.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:29.769000+08:00","text":"結果是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:29.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:35.993000+08:00","text":"在這裡撕報告的撕報告、拍桌子的拍桌子，您有在現場，次長啊！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:36.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:37.613000+08:00","text":"我要跟您分享……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:37.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:38.613000+08:00","text":"我是從頭聽到尾，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:37.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:39.214000+08:00","text":"很好，我謝謝您從頭聽到尾。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:43.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:56.447000+08:00","text":"教師解聘辦法由備查改為審查，兩位召委、不分藍綠公聽會也開了、專報今天也排了，你如果說數字下降，伍麗華召委幹嘛要排專報，對不對？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:56.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:57.088000+08:00","text":"你回答嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:57.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:58.329000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:58.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:00.691000+08:00","text":"就是還有要解決的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:00.691000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:02.553000+08:00","text":"委員，這是第一步嘛！","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:02.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:05.235000+08:00","text":"我們做事情就是要第一步、第二步、第三步來做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:05.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:05.795000+08:00","text":"不好意思喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:06.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:08.978000+08:00","text":"次長，現在已經不是第一步的時間喔！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:09.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:18.705000+08:00","text":"你剛剛已經講，這是長期的抱怨，你的修正自1月到現在也已經5個月，半年快過去了，這麼厚一本公聽會的資料、字字血淚！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:19.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:43.814000+08:00","text":"您剛剛也說了您都在現場，這麼多專家沉痛呼籲，如果教育部還要堅稱臺灣的教育一直在往好的方向改革，部長還在說自己好棒棒、大家怎麼沒有給我們掌聲；如果教育部還是要用片面這種沒有溫度的數字，來證明教育現場的親師生已經變得更和善，那表示什麼？","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:43.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:46.095000+08:00","text":"這段時間的這些建議大家是對牛彈琴嗎？","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:46.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:48.077000+08:00","text":"我沒有這樣說，我們朝這個方向努力……對嘛！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:48.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:50.679000+08:00","text":"但是我沒有像您說的、敘述的這樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:51.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:52.540000+08:00","text":"我敘述的怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:52.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:55.362000+08:00","text":"我敘述的就是你們長時間沒有作為……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:55.362000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:56.362000+08:00","text":"我們沒有自認為好棒棒，我們也強調說我們不會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:55.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:56.323000+08:00","text":"不要只看數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:56.323000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:53:57.383000+08:00","text":"沾沾自喜。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:53:57.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:00.266000+08:00","text":"部長說我們做得很好，大家沒有給我們掌聲……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:00.266000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:01.266000+08:00","text":"我們不會以這個數字沾沾自喜……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:00.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:02.587000+08:00","text":"有老師跳樓、輕生了，我們還要給你掌聲嗎？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:02.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:05.349000+08:00","text":"這個我在公聽會、在座談會也提過，委員也不要誤解……我們的努力，不要誤解。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:10.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:14.255000+08:00","text":"我們沒有誤解，可以回去看對部長的質詢，他是怎麼提的。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:14.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:20.778000+08:00","text":"沒有關係，今天次長，希望您可以提供給我們一些新的方向，我們剛剛給你機會了，你也沒有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:20.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:21.778000+08:00","text":"如果你願意聆聽，我們願意說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:21.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:26.881000+08:00","text":"沒關係，請教次長，韓國最近爆紅的「鐵拳教育」，斑斑血淚啊！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:26.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:27.561000+08:00","text":"韓國在2018到2023年……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:27.561000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:28.561000+08:00","text":"那是戲劇。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:27.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:27.982000+08:00","text":"我們講數字喔！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:28.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:29.302000+08:00","text":"你知不知道2018到2023年，韓國一共有幾位教師自殺？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:39.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:40.124000+08:00","text":"一百多位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:40.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:41.327000+08:00","text":"一百多位啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:41.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:42.531000+08:00","text":"這是數字還是戲劇？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:42.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:44.095000+08:00","text":"沒有，我說你講的……對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:44.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:44.416000+08:00","text":"「鐵拳教育」是戲劇。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:47.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:50.281000+08:00","text":"不用您解釋，我也沒有問您，這是質詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:50.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:50.982000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:50.982000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:54:51.982000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:54:50.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:04.327000+08:00","text":"所以我們要講的是，這一百多位教師自殺催生了教權四法，所以這部戲劇的背景是真實的，修法是真實的，教權四法也是真實的。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:04.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:13.471000+08:00","text":"我想請教次長，2024年這一年臺灣、中華民國自傷、自殺的教師人數是多少？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:15.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:23.601000+08:00","text":"我們看到韓國5年是一百多人，而你們說做得很好，我們有數字，我們就來看數字嘛！","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:24.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:25.422000+08:00","text":"2024年一年自傷、自殺的是多少人？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:27.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:28.965000+08:00","text":"而且你們在公聽會也都聽了啊！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:30.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:30.867000+08:00","text":"我直接告訴你啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:31.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:32.868000+08:00","text":"你不用看，我的投影片沒有做，寫在這一本啦！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:33.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:44.009000+08:00","text":"在公聽會會議紀錄的第24頁，黃湘仙理事長提到臺灣2024年校安通報當中，自傷、自殺的教師有124名啦！","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:44.009000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:45.009000+08:00","text":"這個數字……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:44.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:44.270000+08:00","text":"自傷、自殺？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:50.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:55.197000+08:00","text":"你們還要定義，說是指甲脫落還是什麼。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:55.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:56.859000+08:00","text":"這個數字不嚴重嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:56.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:55:59.121000+08:00","text":"這個數字不需要次長記得嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:55:59.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:04.386000+08:00","text":"教育部是否能夠參考韓國的做法，研議修正或制定相關的法案？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:05.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:11.033000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣的教權法……教權局是想像的，但是教權法的修法可以做，有沒有機會來研議？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:12.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:25.039000+08:00","text":"我們在教權四法修法之後，也有去瞭解韓國的現況，其實他們的教師工會還是在抱怨，還是有一些問題，所以我想每一個國家的情況不一樣，我們也在努力……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:25.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:26.180000+08:00","text":"那我們就都不用做了啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:26.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:26.500000+08:00","text":"我們當然……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:27.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:36.484000+08:00","text":"立法院成立以來，我們所有的法一再地修、一再地立，都有人抱怨，召委，我們明天是不是都不要開會了？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:37.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:39.026000+08:00","text":"所以我們都一直在精進、在修正啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:39.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:39.946000+08:00","text":"怎麼會沒有修正呢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:40.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:45.551000+08:00","text":"我在問的問題很具體，請問臺灣的教權法可不可以研議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:45.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:48.493000+08:00","text":"我不知道你所謂的教權法是指哪一部分，包括職業安全……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:48.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:50.795000+08:00","text":"參考他們的教權四法修法，研議……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:51.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:52.277000+08:00","text":"職業安全衛生法有關教師的部分，我們現在也在跟勞動部……","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:52.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:56:53.838000+08:00","text":"研議制定或修正相關的法案！請說！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:56:56.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:09.836000+08:00","text":"相關的法案我們都在研議，包括輔導管教辦法，我們現在也準備要修，座談會的時候也有提出要不要入專法，在入專法之前，如果它曠日廢時，我們要修哪一個部分的注意事項或者辦法，這些我們都在研議，怎麼會沒有研議！","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:10.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:15.101000+08:00","text":"好，希望儘快提出，讓大家有所感受，不要只是看冷冰冰的數字，好不好？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:15.101000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:16.101000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員指導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:15.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:19.545000+08:00","text":"接下來要和次長討論一個又是只聞樓梯響的新政策。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:19.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:26.469000+08:00","text":"上禮拜四在行政院院會後的記者會當中，卓院長宣布了剛剛很多委員都在關心的第五級保全。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:27.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:35.675000+08:00","text":"該次記者會結束後，我們立即向教育部索資，結果得到的回應再一次是「一切尚待規劃，無資料可提供」。哇！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:36.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:39.918000+08:00","text":"這已經不知道是第幾次全國民眾又被教育部糊弄了啦！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:40.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:57:55.449000+08:00","text":"從未經行政院核定就登上雜誌大內宣的AI人才方舟計畫，到宣布要和中研院一起合作設置的TAAS（高等研究院計畫），很多單位都跟我們講，教育部根本沒和他們商量就被放進去了，還被拿來宣傳。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:57:56.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:11.779000+08:00","text":"結果到現在，在會後記者會上宣布第五級保全，每次本席都在消息曝光、媒體大肆刊登（這次還放在頭條）之後，立即向教育部索資，可是每次得到的答復都是沒有內容可以提供！","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:13.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:19.265000+08:00","text":"現在甚至行公文過去，連沒有資料可以提供的回覆都直接不回！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:21.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:22.768000+08:00","text":"所以現在是怎麼樣？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:22.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:26.131000+08:00","text":"政策、做法先喊先贏、拔草測風向？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:26.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:29.735000+08:00","text":"我們的教育部變成宣傳部了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:29.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:37.962000+08:00","text":"第五級保全的規劃有太多家長、學生在關心，我就問到底這個計畫的細節是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:37.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:38.582000+08:00","text":"何時上路？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:39.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:56.059000+08:00","text":"這個背景是因為面對新興毒品帶來的挑戰，所以行政院在跨部會的會議……我剛剛有提到，它是建議校園安全維護可以考量納入第五級保全的協助，建議學校與警方緝毒之間的合作，我們目前也有……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:56.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:58:56.979000+08:00","text":"次長，很奇怪耶！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:58:58.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:02.324000+08:00","text":"剛剛我在座位上聽柯志恩委員質詢，才5分鐘前喔！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:03.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:10.889000+08:00","text":"你說不一定，現在突然又說要有第五級保全，這樣民眾聽不懂耶！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:11.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:13.390000+08:00","text":"是不是又是一個拔草測風向啊？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:13.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:17.792000+08:00","text":"你如果聽不懂，我就說明，我剛剛講的是行政院建議校園可考量……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:17.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:18.672000+08:00","text":"行政院建議校園？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:18.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:21.374000+08:00","text":"那教育部的態度是什麼嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:21.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:24.135000+08:00","text":"我們提出我們現行已經有這樣的制度、已經有跟警察聯繫的制度。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:25.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:26.015000+08:00","text":"可是一問三不知！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:26.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:44.825000+08:00","text":"好，我們請教，現行制度下，第五級保全是不是指承接公家機關、國營事業高階防護，具備志願役退伍軍人、警職人員，或國軍義務役特種部隊退役年資合計達2年以上，通過3,000公尺跑步測驗以及其他專業訓練的特種保全？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:45.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:47.246000+08:00","text":"是不是這樣的定義？對啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:47.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:48.027000+08:00","text":"是這樣的定義？好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:48.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:51.008000+08:00","text":"那我們就請問他們的職責是哪些面向？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:51.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:59:55.031000+08:00","text":"校園有師生衝突的時候，他要站在哪一邊？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T09:59:59.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:02.457000+08:00","text":"你講的就是我們現有學創人力的工作嘛！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:03.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:04.758000+08:00","text":"你們怎麼有這個新的政策？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:05.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:06.600000+08:00","text":"你說：沒有喔，不一定要執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:06.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:11.002000+08:00","text":"委員，剛才我有講過，那是面對新興毒品的挑戰……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:11.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:12.002000+08:00","text":"你們的細節到底是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:12.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:13.002000+08:00","text":"你說：喔，沒有，我們有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:11.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:13.484000+08:00","text":"行政院建議可以考量，不是一個……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:15.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:15.605000+08:00","text":"怎麼又有了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:15.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:16.426000+08:00","text":"你說是建議！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:16.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:18.427000+08:00","text":"然後我們說：細節是不是這個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:18.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:18.907000+08:00","text":"你說是這個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:19.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:21.048000+08:00","text":"我說：那他要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:21.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:23.290000+08:00","text":"你說：這個不一定要執行、不確定、還在規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞：我們說","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:26.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:29.651000+08:00","text":"次長，沒有關係，您回去看一下您的錄影……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:30.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:32.453000+08:00","text":"委員要進一步引申我沒有講的話，我尊重你的職權。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:33.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:35.475000+08:00","text":"你仔細說明他的職責包含哪些面向。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:35.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:36.877000+08:00","text":"你剛才講的那些，我沒有說啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:37.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:39.811000+08:00","text":"什麼考慮、建議、要執行，我沒有這樣講。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:40.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:40.951000+08:00","text":"你剛剛說「建議」啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:40.951000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:41.951000+08:00","text":"你剛剛說行政院建議啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:41.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:43.732000+08:00","text":"我是說這是行政院的建議嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:44.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:48.334000+08:00","text":"面對新興毒品的挑戰……對啊！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:48.334000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:49.334000+08:00","text":"然後呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:48.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:53.955000+08:00","text":"所以行政院建議考量到校園安全，當然可以考慮納入第五級保全。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:53.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:54.756000+08:00","text":"對，建議、考慮、納入嘛！然後……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:54.756000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:00:55.756000+08:00","text":"所以我回應的是說我們現行就有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:00:54.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:00.918000+08:00","text":"然後我問您第五級保全定義的時候，您的回應是，這已經是現行的，對吧？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:01.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:07.644000+08:00","text":"不是，第五級保全現在社會有在用，你講的是在銀行、在重要港口的這些第五級保全嘛！","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:08.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:12.408000+08:00","text":"所以建議可以考慮，然後這是現行的？對！對啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:12.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:22.898000+08:00","text":"我就問你，既然建議考慮，那就會有人採用、採用現行的，我問你職責包含哪些面向、師生衝突的時候怎麼辦，你又停住了！","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:24.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:26.781000+08:00","text":"這個是學創人力的工作，我們沒有要引用這個來做這個部分……喔！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:26.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:28.583000+08:00","text":"這是別人的工作，是誰的工作？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:30.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:30.065000+08:00","text":"你界定一下。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:30.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:31.886000+08:00","text":"委員，你不要這樣斷章取義，我講的是……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:32.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:33.688000+08:00","text":"我哪裡斷章取義？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:33.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:37.372000+08:00","text":"我剛才講過是面對新興毒品的挑戰……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:37.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:38.253000+08:00","text":"那你再念一次，這是你……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:38.253000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:39.253000+08:00","text":"處理學校的事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:38.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:40.835000+08:00","text":"次長，你可以再念一次！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:41.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:43.277000+08:00","text":"你再念一次剛剛那句話！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:43.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:44.419000+08:00","text":"我讓你念第三次！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:49.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:54.687000+08:00","text":"我尊重委員的職權，不過我沒有講的話透過你這樣子……我沒有辦法接受。","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:54.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:01:58.091000+08:00","text":"我很謝謝我們立法院有錄影，大家可以回去看錄影。是。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:01:59.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:09.662000+08:00","text":"我們都是在釐清，現場教育人員、親師生對於教育部、行政院的說法不清，我們去索資也索不到……","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:10.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:14.484000+08:00","text":"我們有說是面對新興毒品的挑戰，你說第五級保全如果是學生情緒的問題……","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:14.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:19.626000+08:00","text":"因為你那一句話的下一句就是第五級保全，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:19.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:20.747000+08:00","text":"建議可採……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:20.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:25.249000+08:00","text":"你問我學校學生的情緒問題也要第五級保全，我說當然不是嘛！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:25.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:26.229000+08:00","text":"我沒有說情緒問題喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:26.229000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:28.190000+08:00","text":"你剛才說學生的管教……","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:28.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:30.011000+08:00","text":"次長，請問我剛剛有沒有講「情緒問題」這四個字？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:32.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:35.173000+08:00","text":"剛剛你有提到處理學生的一些相關事務……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:35.173000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:36.173000+08:00","text":"我說「師生衝突」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:35.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:35.813000+08:00","text":"師生衝突嘛！對！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:35.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:39.914000+08:00","text":"請問第五級保全在校園內要怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:40.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:42.395000+08:00","text":"我就是這樣問，我沒有講「情緒」！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:42.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:45.196000+08:00","text":"師生衝突就是學創人力或者是老師在處理嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:45.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:47.236000+08:00","text":"所以不是教育部的範疇啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:47.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:47.776000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:48.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:49.216000+08:00","text":"不是第五級保全嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:50.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:50.937000+08:00","text":"我們沒有要去……不會去用到第五級保全。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:52.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:02:57.338000+08:00","text":"所以第五級保全……我剛剛問的全話是：職責包含哪些面向？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:02:58.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:00.779000+08:00","text":"如果有師生衝突的時候要如何面對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:01.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:04.079000+08:00","text":"我說那是學創人力，不會用到第五級保全。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:04.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:04.660000+08:00","text":"沒關係啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:05.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:11.881000+08:00","text":"次長，我們回去看一下錄影，如果有不足夠、不完整的地方，希望教育部提供資料，來讓……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:11.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:12.881000+08:00","text":"我們可以提供進一步的說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:11.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:16.382000+08:00","text":"因為我們索資索不到，我們代表民眾，我們索取資料是索不到的！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:16.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:22.603000+08:00","text":"今天您的回應，來來回回，我覺得也許有清楚，也許有不清楚，希望你們再提供！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:23.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:29.004000+08:00","text":"這個保全薪資5萬3,000元到底是地方支出，還是由教育部負擔？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:29.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:30.324000+08:00","text":"如果您說是現行制度的話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:32.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:33.210000+08:00","text":"現行制度沒有第五級保全。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蔡司長宜靜","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:33.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:38.616000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現行第五級保全是用在銀行或相關的產業。因為……哇！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蔡司長宜靜","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:40.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:49.487000+08:00","text":"因為政委是提到目前教官的離退，我們有學創人力的引進，面對毒品的問題，擔心……謝謝！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:49.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:49.947000+08:00","text":"您可以先……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:50.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:55.890000+08:00","text":"次長，你剛剛說是現行制度，所以這個現行制度有說要用在校園嗎？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:55.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:59.211000+08:00","text":"我講的現行制度是社會的，這不是學校的現行制度啦！喔！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:59.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:03:59.791000+08:00","text":"又擴充解釋！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:03:59.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:00.311000+08:00","text":"所以次長，我想要告訴你，為什麼我們索取資料這麼重要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:00.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:01.491000+08:00","text":"因為不會有我們這樣在現場一來一回，您可能會誤會我，我也許也會誤會你，這其實是不好的。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:01.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:01.691000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:01.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:02.211000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛我們又理解、又擴充理解……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:02.211000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:03.211000+08:00","text":"委員如果有進一步需要說明……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:02.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:24.036000+08:00","text":"所以次長講的現行制度不是校園內有第五級保全，我可以這樣理解嗎？可以。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:24.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:28.839000+08:00","text":"大家要回去看錄影，不要誤會次長前面的話。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:29.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:30.640000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我爭取一點時間，因為教師人力荒的問題很嚴重。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:30.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:04:33.242000+08:00","text":"代理教師從105年11%上升到113年15%，國中階段代理教師從105年11%上升到113年18%，我們真的要留住他們，我們也很感謝他們幫忙。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:04:48.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:13.492000+08:00","text":"很多代理教師去接手班級是在一個學期裡面，他的聘期可能不滿3個月，畢竟代理老師是被找來接手的，聘期不是掌握在他們的手中，請教次長，按照教育部的現行規定，我現在講得很清楚，按照教育部的現行規定，聘期未滿3個月的代理教師，在計算薪水的時候也可以和專任教師一樣採計之前的任職年資嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:15.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:17.013000+08:00","text":"3個月這部分，人事……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:17.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:17.894000+08:00","text":"未滿3個月。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:17.894000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:18.894000+08:00","text":"人事主任。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:18.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:26.060000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我跟主席爭取一點時間，因為全國都在等次長的答復，為什麼？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:26.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:35.626000+08:00","text":"因為我們秀出的這個圖，就是地方至少有5個縣市的教育局發函去問教育部，到底這個問題的答案是什麼？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:35.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:36.307000+08:00","text":"請問可以還是不可以？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:37.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:43.231000+08:00","text":"至少宜蘭、高雄、臺中、新北、臺南等5個縣市都發公文，搞不清楚狀況。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"曾主任瓊慧","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:44.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:48.415000+08:00","text":"短期代理教師並沒有，因為他是短期的……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:48.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:51.657000+08:00","text":"未滿3個月到底算不算年資？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任瓊慧","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:51.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:05:55.960000+08:00","text":"未滿3個月的部分不算，3個月以上才是我們的長期代理教師。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:05:55.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:06:20.118000+08:00","text":"不好意思，2024年8月9號憲法法庭113年度憲判字第7號「中小學代理教師之職前年資提敘案」有說，答案是可以的，你們有沒有研議過2024年8月的憲判字第7號？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:06:21.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:06:32.610000+08:00","text":"從8月1號之後就可以，而且你們回函給各個縣市都說是可以的，你們內部有沒有需要搞清楚？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:06:34.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:06:37.349000+08:00","text":"這個不只是螺絲鬆了，會讓很多教師搞不清楚……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:06:37.349000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:06:38.590000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心這個，我們來了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:06:38.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:07:12.293000+08:00","text":"因為教職人員不管是代理還是專任，年資真的很重要，尤其還有從A縣市再跑到B縣市的，這個很正常，我們都有看到，真的很辛苦，再次感謝全國的代理教師還有所有的專任教師，這種跨縣市還會有很多的問題，所以我的訴求很簡單，第一，請教育部儘速統一去函各縣市政府，聘期未滿3個月（含按日支薪之代理教師）比照專任教師納入年資計算。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:07:12.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:07:19.659000+08:00","text":"如果你們不清楚法律，請去看2024年8月9號憲法法庭的113年度憲判字第7號。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:07:20.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:07:53.093000+08:00","text":"第二，請教育部務必於公文內清楚說明，本解釋，也就是我們剛剛提到解釋，生效的時間點是民國114年8月1號起施行，合格代理教師享有職前年資提敘的時間點，避免代理教師事後有爭議，爭取薪資權益的問題，主管機關或學校勿以教育部發文解釋的時間點起算，所以你們要講清楚，這個生效的時間點是114年8月1號起施行。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:07:54.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:07:58.099000+08:00","text":"可不可以請次長當場承諾，相關發文程序可不可以在兩週內完成？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:07:58.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:07:59.380000+08:00","text":"我再次感謝我們伍麗華召委。可以。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2026-06-24T10:08:00.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:08:01.542000+08:00","text":"兩週內完成，好不好？謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:08:01.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:08:01.562000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:08:02.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:08:06.347714+08:00","text":"謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢，請次長回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:08:06.647714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:08:10.362000+08:00","text":"接下來請陳秀寳委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}