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軍情隊跟戰號"},{"start":137.928,"end":165.757,"text":"帳號補充這四種那我們平常教育召集就是做鞭石擴鞭跟軍群隊這三部分那當時是怎麼樣說他就是說算出來可以達到一年可以訓26.8萬這個我不太清楚就是他怎麼計算的但是以目前的招訓的政策跟流入的規劃今年之前都是兩年一訓"},{"start":167.758,"end":170.301,"text":"我們兩年一訓都是12.5萬人左右我們舉一個例子來說好了因為這中間已經有發生我們自己定的目標數或者我們實際的施訓的數量其實是跟我們現在實際達到"},{"start":187.54,"end":191.463,"text":"實際到訊數其實是差距很大的以113年為例好了我們實際的到訊數是8萬2千餘人只佔較早目標數12萬餘人的67%而且跟當初提出來的失訊目標26萬8千人差異更大所以我們必須要去找出這些相關的原因那剛剛也提到我們聽到有很多就是你可以在這個在可能有特殊情況的時候可以"},{"start":218.481,"end":232.117,"text":"可以不用來包括出國還有很多其他的狀況可是現在像這種和免的條件因為我們現在的樣態也非常多所以其實沒有來的事實上也很多我們現在看到的"},{"start":232.517,"end":235.938,"text":"除了剛剛的以外他到底是什麼原因我們希望你們再有一個具體的一個說明到底為什麼我們道訓宿還有跟我們這些人數差這麼多包括我們的訓練的設施訓練的場地或者我們的裝備到底夠了沒這個部分我們在這個報告裡面沒有沒有完整的看到這個部分後續我們希望提供詳細的熟面資料"},{"start":257.345,"end":279.866,"text":"可是我們還要再提到的雖然說今天不提個案可是也因為個案讓大家去看到這個問題因為我們過去教召你說因為一般常態的認知他大概覺得就是8年大概4次可是你現在把它延到12年或者從7天5天到7天從今年開始變成都是14天這個我們有正式公告嗎這個"},{"start":282.691,"end":301.156,"text":"第一個就是有正式公告嗎這個都有公告什麼時候公告正式的公告我們說正式的公告讓所有的因為這個關乎所有藝男的權益國防部有義務要公告或明確的告知讓所有的國人知道他們才會有準備我們有正式的公告嗎"},{"start":302.797,"end":321.117,"text":"這就是要全面實施14天在今年的這個2月多的這個春節應該是說記者的參緒裡面已經有都對外公佈說明了另外就是說在今年5月多的時候也是這個委員會的我們國防部的這個這個業務報告"},{"start":322.939,"end":336.454,"text":"這個部分都不是正式的公告我們所謂的正式公告是你從過去他可能可以算兩次叫招到你變成一次而且今年全面的就是14天其實並沒有正式公告我們看到的媒體的大概這個只有內部的自己講說算一次只有內部講的"},{"start":343.761,"end":348.742,"text":"一直到我們排了這個專報以後才有正式的對外在我們的網站上面有這樣的出現所以這個部分我們希望我們國家政策尤其像這個會關乎到大家生涯的規劃或者你在就業或者在家庭或者在經濟生活上面都會造成影響因為你過去五天七天其實也是有影響包括像農業它也有影響你已經在要豐收的一個階段你如果"},{"start":370.786,"end":376.108,"text":"五天七天不收那就已經很難了現在甚至要找人都很難那你現在一次十四天那更難所以就這些你都應該要很清楚的讓國人知道你可以有變動我們為了國家的需求要提升戰力要提升這個訓練的量能可是你必須把國人的權益放在上位這個部分我們要求正式要求這個部分我們希望在後續可以有更妥善的一個方式"},{"start":397.873,"end":421.308,"text":"那另外在今天的報告裡面還有一個重要的部分大概就是女性後備軍人正式要納入後備役的管理那在過去我們其實為什麼會特別規劃女性在除了獎勵措施以外歷年女性志願參加教招訓練的有多少人"},{"start":422.088,"end":425.733,"text":"從開始112年到現在總共有79位完訓那我們下令大概是98位"},{"start":435.02,"end":462.142,"text":"對 其實他人數很少今年大概12人而已嘛今年目前已經合併下令的是10個那完訓的是3位對 所以他的人數都非常少而且你本來其實之前相關的資料大概是百餘人啦剛剛說90幾位可是人員越來越少我們在這裡要特別提醒國防部部長也在今天基於以上參與的人數國軍是基於什麼迫切原因因為過去你們沒有把女性的志願役的這個納入"},{"start":464.144,"end":482.471,"text":"那你現在要修法把他納入他的原因是什麼他的迫切性還有必要性還有要積極的修法我們剛剛聽到的是說公平可是我們這種鼓勵的措施都還不夠補充國軍常備或守備部隊的人數嗎"},{"start":486.153,"end":507.891,"text":"我想女性的因為我們是就她已經從事志願役嘛我知道因為我們過去沒有把女性志願役納入嘛為什麼那有一個考量就是因為女性可能她在別隊伍以後或者她在家庭扮演的角色那她的小孩可能很小所以其實我們那時候沒有特別把她納入"},{"start":509.392,"end":527.046,"text":"而是用那種獎勵性質的可是現在我們要修法把它納入我們現在的說法是說公平性那我們現在也要特別提到也要提醒因為我們現在如果說他可以不來大概有幾我舉例就是說假設你只有一個小孩他是兩歲以下你就可以不用來可是他如果三歲他還是要他超過兩歲還是要來"},{"start":535.752,"end":539.514,"text":"你如果有兩個小孩兩個都要在七歲以下如果剛好一個五歲或一個八歲那他的整個家庭都會受到很大的影響我們現在要說的不是他們不可以做這樣的修改可是你過去在招募他們的時候你是說他們並沒有納入的所以我們要明確的想要知道就是說這個規劃的這個草案會不會溯及既往"},{"start":564.907,"end":578.292,"text":"有關那個施行的這個時間涉及到的這個有一些相關性愛保護原則的部分我們現在還在審議當中所以要怎麼樣子來界定一個施行"},{"start":579.452,"end":587.381,"text":"在什麼時候之前然後在什麼時候這我們還要再研究一下這個我們先提醒因為女性官士兵其實她們當時要進來服役的時候這個條件可能也是她們納入考量的那她通常在家庭裡面她有要負擔照顧小孩"},{"start":595.13,"end":602.336,"text":"像它的運期啊各方面所以基於這樣的考量我們當時是沒有把它納入你現在要納入應該要考量剛剛部長已經有提到了是不是有說集計網它規劃由哪一年入營的官兵開始執行然後目前已經在營的女性軍事官兵她在入營前是否已經善盡告知的義務這些都要必須要有具體的一個考量好不好"},{"start":620.578,"end":623.479,"text":"我們會跟行政院做一個詳細的演繹這個部分因為我們不希望每次對於軍公教因為他們在過去其實已經受到年金改革的時候已經認為說對他們在政府這種順其既往或者"},{"start":640.703,"end":645.625,"text":"像這樣的一個近代保護原則其實都已經失去誠信所以我們希望我們這個整個政策在推動的時候應該要給予考量的部分還是要多所琢磨而且必須要強力的幫他們爭取因為過去他們入伍的時候我們並沒有這樣的一個規劃這個部分再請部長多費心那另外跟主席接一點時間就是說我們在我們看到"},{"start":670.106,"end":678.429,"text":"速發部資安署有發布有接獲FortiBridge情資指出Fortinet防火牆或VPN的憑證可能已經遭到竊取這個情資已經列出受害網站 請各單位要注意配合"},{"start":690.894,"end":706.025,"text":"那在今天下班之前可能針對Fortinet的設備升級或者最新版本無法升級的應該暫停使用升級以後管理的應該要重新登入以改用高強度雜湊演算法"},{"start":707.106,"end":712.471,"text":"為什麼要特別提到這個部分我們去年在11月12號有招標一個6點多億的資安建設案這個國防部對我們來說其實是非常重要因為它甚至整合BNS是國軍營區網路管理核心系統一旦整個設備遭到入侵等同於讓駭客可以取得整個軍區網路的監控以及控制權"},{"start":735.329,"end":759.084,"text":"這個三月份的時候我們在委員會有委員我們都有特別提出來那在質詢的時候陸軍有說在服務計畫書裡面的階段有疑慮還可以再審現在才六月份資安署已經正式要求所有Fortinet這個使用單位都要立即更改密碼而且現管介面升級設備這證明當時並不是多慮而是"},{"start":763.487,"end":764.828,"text":"陸軍還有國防部把這個國防邊界的防火牆的真實風險其實把它當成得標以後的行政的問題因為在決標的過程當中我們當時提出來還有"},{"start":779.36,"end":785.224,"text":"徐委員也有提出在決標的邏輯設備選行到資格審查幾乎每一個關鍵環節都有疑點一個關係國軍機民網路跟安全的系統最終由資安經驗最少的廠商而且在不降價的這個情況下得標當時參與投標的甚至還有中華電信可是我們選的廠商卻是"},{"start":807.219,"end":811.942,"text":"經驗最少的而且沒有做過大型資安的這樣的經驗的廠商他去得標而且他的設備又選用近年被多國情報機構示警高風險設備甚至國安認證也都不具備的情況之下他卻得標了我們當時一再的強調當時3月才在質詢現在才6月我們自己的速發部已經提出這樣的警訊這個部分我們當時的作為跟現在有採取什麼樣的作為嗎"},{"start":839.64,"end":865.405,"text":"跟委員報告 委員我是通知室次長有關Botnet這家公司在當時的時候我們已經做過一個全面性的調查它是在歐洲一個是非常使用廣泛的一個一個資安管控的一個公司那它在速發部在各家的廠商它也都有相關的防火牆漏洞要修補的一個公告"},{"start":866.755,"end":886.01,"text":"各家的公告我們都會從速發部的網站那邊獲得了之後我們會同步的告訴我們全國軍的人的所有的系統同樣的設備的更新我們剛剛講得非常清楚因為你有三家廠商"},{"start":887.211,"end":914.871,"text":"有很多都有比較大的這樣資安管理系統建置的經驗可是我們卻沒有選擇我們選擇最沒有經驗的而且最貴然後他的設備已經受到警示當時也有提出來那時候的說明是說還在服務計劃書的階段照理說服務計劃書就是他得標的結果可是我們那時候卻還用服務計劃書讓他有機會去做調整這個部分我想現在先"},{"start":916.272,"end":941.46,"text":"您要回答嗎?包委員,有關於您剛才講包含到徐委員和您所提醒的這個案子事實上我們陸軍非常重視那有關於,我就兩點說明第一個,這個得標廠商我們除了他的資本額之外我們也是著重他的一個履約時機他事實上是在國內有實際上在治安方面的履約的"},{"start":941.9,"end":944.662,"text":"那第二個有關這個Fortinet的疑慮我們目前是要求要經過我們國家的資安認證也就是如果確實有疑慮它是不會安裝這個防火牆我剛剛已經講得很清楚我們3月的時候質詢速發部在6月也在幾天前就已經通報所有的相關單位這個部分部長我想請部長也要慎重的去了解這個"},{"start":970.299,"end":981.069,"text":"他本來就會定時對各項這一個防火牆的這些他會定時公佈不是只有Fortinet不是不是這一個已經造成七萬多台受到影響而且全國有一百多個國家都受到影響這是一個情資這是速發部獲得Fortinet"},{"start":994.662,"end":1014.084,"text":"受到他可能已經遭受竊取的情資才警示的這個部分我們要求我們有確定這個委員的講話我只是在說明數碼部都會定時的對不同的這個設備的這種防火牆的設備都會定時的去公佈它哪些有一些漏洞的狀況所以不是"},{"start":1015.085,"end":1029.191,"text":"不是單純只針對Fortinet它對其他的各項的資安的防火牆都會有一些定時的發布部長我知道那個部分速發布它會有它的權責在可是我們現在說的是這一個是因為我們國軍"},{"start":1031.292,"end":1050.326,"text":"國軍營區網路管理核心系統這個不是普通的防火牆是整個軍網的中樞我們每年編了大筆的預算我們一直要做很嚴密的這樣的一個資安的管控我們也編了這麼高的預算去做這樣的服務可是我們現在才多久的時間已經發生這樣的問題這個部分大家請國防部還有我們相關的單位要正視這個問題而且"},{"start":1057.791,"end":1073.916,"text":"可能在很快的時間提出說明好不好那就這個部分我們也希望說因為這個部分也必須可能我們沒有辦法要求政府公開受害的IP或帳號因為避免造成二次風險可是國防部不能迴避責任因為這個部分牽涉到我們所有國軍"},{"start":1081.118,"end":1083.179,"text":"整個軍區網路還有監控還有它的控制權所以就這個部分我們要求國防部應該對立法院要有一個機密的說明比如說像陸軍國防部軍網維運商還有得標廠商還有關鍵基礎設施是否出現在這個Fort Braille的這個情資清單當中要怎麼樣完成逐項的建設跟補救這個部分"},{"start":1108.927,"end":1131.681,"text":"是否在一定的期限內可以提出具體的說明跟補救的措施委員是希望我們提一個書面報告我們剛剛提到的這些單位有沒有在這個清單裡面你們現在掌握的 因為已經很多天了所以委員是希望我們提一個報告嗎"},{"start":1133.517,"end":1144.23,"text":"看部長應該要提報告還是你要做一個機密的一個說明還是我們去跟委員做說明就好了還是怎麼樣"},{"start":1145.379,"end":1154.289,"text":"那你們也要說明說這個後續因為這個廠商剛剛你們說他有時機其實並不對因為不是沒有時機的部長那委員如果想要知道一些狀況我們再跟您在這邊做一個溝通"},{"start":1164.66,"end":1182.466,"text":"我們並不希望我們每次提到問題而且它已經發生了而且是全世界都受到影響速發部也提出警示我們國防部的立場應該要立即去補救而且甚至不可以造成傷害不是幫廠商講說它是合規的我們每次提出來我們聽到的國防部都是幫廠商講話這是讓我們覺得最不能接受的因為我們用的是納稅機"},{"start":1190.549,"end":1199.611,"text":"因為漏洞的這個示警預警本來就是樹花部定時在做的我們根據這個預警都會就這些相關的這些設備要完成這個漏洞的修補定期的示警跟獲得情資是不一樣的他這一次是獲得情資是已經被害而且他的VPN跟所有的這個防火牆其實他是有被竊已經有可能被竊這個才是我們擔心的如果我們連這個都做不到那以後"},{"start":1217.774,"end":1235.698,"text":"不要說你們還可以做多好的資安防護因為你編再多的錢都沒用你買的設備其實已經被害或者被竊取或者你防堵的措施沒有辦法去做有效的因應我們沒有辦法相信我們編再多的預算給國防部這樣是有用的好不好請部長在幾天內可以提出這樣的一個具體的說明"},{"start":1243.847,"end":1255.253,"text":"我們再找是不是請那個我們再跟委員做一個說明你們現在有掌握了嗎因為發生很多天了是我們我們就跟委員做找時間就跟委員做個說明好不好"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:13.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:13.906000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:13.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:13.946000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:13.946000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:14.946000+08:00","text":"馬委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:13.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:14.066000+08:00","text":"部長午安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:14.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:00.595000+08:00","text":"我們今天特別訂這個專報，最重要的是，雖然有一些個案不斷在陳情，但我們的教召制度事實上也做了一些變動，還有過去因為牽涉到志願役、義務役還有在募兵的過程當中，其實造成可能有一些來源偏少的狀況，也已經形成了一些問題，我們希望藉由這一次的專報可以徹底把所有的問題全部再檢視一次。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:00.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:32.559000+08:00","text":"因為我們在很倉促的情況之下，比如說111年成立全動署時有很多的政策，包括跟後備指揮部相關在很多的業務上面，或者我們應該執行的部分，現在也都造成了一些後續的影響。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:33.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:52.698000+08:00","text":"現在看到的是，那時在成立的時候，大家覺得我們訓練總能量可以增加到29萬人，而且一年以內可以編管二十六萬八千餘人施訓完畢。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:52.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:57.361000+08:00","text":"可是到目前為止訓量並沒有達成，到底是什麼原因？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:58.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:01.323000+08:00","text":"經過了這幾年，我們有把原因找出來嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:01.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:02.584000+08:00","text":"請就這部分簡單的說明，好不好？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:05.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:05.356000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:05.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:18.623000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員剛才提到的是109年我們有個專案報告裡面提到，一年的編管有26.8萬人這件事。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:19.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:37.451000+08:00","text":"我先跟委員報告，編管包含三個部分，我們有編實動員、擴編動員、軍勤隊、戰耗補充這四種人，我們平常教育召集就是做編實、擴編跟軍勤隊三部分。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:39.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:46.453000+08:00","text":"當時怎麼算出一年可以訓到26.8萬人？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:46.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:59.898000+08:00","text":"我不太清楚怎麼計算的，但是以目前召訓的政策跟流路的規劃，今年之前都是兩年一訓，我們最多……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:59.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:00.559000+08:00","text":"兩年一訓是12.5萬人左右，對不對？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:00.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:00.679000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:00.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:19.800000+08:00","text":"舉一個例子來說，因為這中間已經發生了我們自己訂的目標數跟實際到訓數差距很大。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:19.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:22.022000+08:00","text":"以113年為例，實際的到訓數是八萬兩千餘人，只占教召目標數十二萬餘人的67%，而且跟當初提出來的施訓目標26萬8,000人差異更大，我們必須要去找出這些相關的原因。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:22.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:54.586000+08:00","text":"剛剛我們聽到可能有特殊情況的時候可以不用來，包括出國還有其他的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:54.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:02.154000+08:00","text":"可是現在像這種核免的條件，因為現在的樣態非常多，所以其實沒有來的也很多。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:02.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:06.118000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到的，除了剛剛的以外，他到底是什麼原因，我們希望你們再有一個具體的說明，到底為什麼到訓數的人數會差這麼多？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:06.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:06.658000+08:00","text":"包括訓練設施、訓練場地或者裝備到底夠了沒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:06.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:07.918000+08:00","text":"這部分在報告裡面沒有完整的看到，我們希望後續提供詳細的書面資料。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:29.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:36.031000+08:00","text":"我們還是要提到，雖然今天不提個案，可是也因為個案，才讓大家看到這個問題。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:36.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:57.872000+08:00","text":"過去教召一般常態的認知大概覺得就是8年4次，可是你現在把它延到12年；之前或者5天到7天，從今年開始變成都是14天，這個有正式公告嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:57.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:58.492000+08:00","text":"這個都有公告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:58.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:59.532000+08:00","text":"什麼時候公告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:00.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:11.675000+08:00","text":"我們說正式的公告讓所有國人知道，因為這個關乎所有役男的權益，國防部有義務要公告或明確的告知，讓所有國人知道，他們才會有準備。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:12.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:13.156000+08:00","text":"有正式公告嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:15.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:26.090000+08:00","text":"要全面實施14天，在今年2月多的春節跟記者餐敘時，都對外公布說明了。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:26.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:33.097000+08:00","text":"另外就是今年5月多的時候，也是委員會舉行的國防部業務報告時已經有說明。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:34.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:37.222000+08:00","text":"這個都不是正式的公告！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:37.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:57.241000+08:00","text":"所謂的正式公告是，從過去可能可以算兩次教召到變成一次，而且今年全面改成14天，我們看到媒體的報導，大概只有內部自己講的算一次，只有內部講的，一直到我們排了這個專報以後，才有正式在網站上對外說明。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:57.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:59.822000+08:00","text":"這部分我們希望國家政策，尤其像這個關乎到大家生涯的規劃，或者對就業、家庭、經濟生活都會造成影響。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:59.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:22:24.747000+08:00","text":"其實過去的5天、7天也是有影響，像對農業也有影響，如果在豐收的階段，5天、7天不收，那就已經很難了，甚至現在連要找人都很難，改成一次14天那更難。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:22:24.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:22:25.547000+08:00","text":"所以這些你都應該要很清楚的讓國人知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:22:25.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:22:28.088000+08:00","text":"你可以有變動，畢竟為了國家的需求，要提升戰力，要提升這個訓練的量能，可是你必須把國人的權益放在上位，這個部分我們正式要求後續可以有更妥善的方式。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:22:50.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:22:59.019000+08:00","text":"另外在今天的報告裡面還有一個重要的部分，大概就是女性後備軍人要正式納入後備役的管理。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:00.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:13.288000+08:00","text":"過去為什麼會特別規劃女性……除了獎勵措施以外，歷年女性志願參加教召訓練的有多少人？一年？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:14.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:14.088000+08:00","text":"從開始。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:14.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:17.713000+08:00","text":"從112年開始到現在總共有79位完訓，我們下令的大概是98位。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:27.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:29.222000+08:00","text":"對，其實人數很少，今年大概12人而已嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:29.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:33.506000+08:00","text":"今年目前已經核定下令的是10個，完訓的是3位。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:34.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:35.627000+08:00","text":"對，所以人數都非常少。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:37.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:42.853000+08:00","text":"之前相關的資料顯示大概是百餘人，剛剛你說九十幾位，其實人員是越來越少。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:43.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:23:51.580000+08:00","text":"我們在這裡要特別提醒國防部，部長也在，關於以上參與的人數，國軍是基於什麼迫切原因？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:23:52.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:00.065000+08:00","text":"因為過去你們沒有把女性志願役納入，你現在要修法把他納入的原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:00.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:04.087000+08:00","text":"它的迫切性還有必要性是什麼，促使你們要積極的修法？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:05.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:14.471000+08:00","text":"我們剛剛聽到的是公平，可是目前所用鼓勵措施都還不夠補充國軍常備或守備部隊的人數嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:18.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:23.277000+08:00","text":"我想女性……因為我們是就他已經從事志願役，那志願役退下來……","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:23.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:28.761000+08:00","text":"我知道，因為過去並沒有把女性志願役納入，為什麼？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:28.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:43.754000+08:00","text":"有一個考量就是因為女性在退伍以後，或者他在家庭扮演的角色，他的小孩可能很小，所以我們那時候沒有特別把女性納入，而是用那種獎勵性質的。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:43.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:56.344000+08:00","text":"可是現在我們要修法把他納入，你們的說法是公平性，為此我要特別提醒，他其實可以不來。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:24:57.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:24:59.046000+08:00","text":"舉例來說，假設他只有一個小孩，而且是2歲以下，他就可以不用來；可是他的小孩如果3歲，超過2歲還是要來。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:25:07.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:25:09.313000+08:00","text":"他如果有兩個小孩，那兩個都要在7歲以下；但如果剛好一個5歲、一個8歲，那他的整個家庭勢必會受到很大的影響。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:25:09.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:25:11.494000+08:00","text":"我們現在要說的不是不可以做這樣的修改，可是你過去在招募他們的時候，你是說他們並沒有納入……所以我們明確的想要知道，這個規劃中的草案會不會溯及既往？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:25:36.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:25:54.636000+08:00","text":"有關施行的時間涉及信賴保護原則相關的部分，我們現在還在審議當中，所以要怎麼樣來界定施行日期，在什麼時候之前、然後在什麼時候，我們還要再研議一下。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:25:54.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:25:58.380000+08:00","text":"這個我們先提醒，因為女性官士兵當時進來服役的時候，這個條件可能也是他們納入考量的。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:25:58.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:10.253000+08:00","text":"他通常在家庭裡面可能要負責照顧小孩，或者像在孕期中，基於這樣的考量，我們當時沒有把他納入。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:10.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:10.613000+08:00","text":"既然你現在要納入，就應該要考量到。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:10.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:11.754000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長已經有提到了，是不是有溯及既往？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:11.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:12.495000+08:00","text":"規劃由哪一年入營的官兵開始執行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:12.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:13.876000+08:00","text":"然後目前已經在營的女性軍士官兵在入營前是否已經善盡告知的義務？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:13.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:14.316000+08:00","text":"這些都必須要有具體的考量，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:32.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:32.838000+08:00","text":"我們會跟行政院做詳細的研議。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:33.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:56.265000+08:00","text":"因為我們不希望每次對於軍公教……因為他們過去經過年金改革，他們認為政府溯及既往，尤其在信賴保護原則上其實都已經失去誠信，所以我們希望整個政策在推動的時候，應該要給予考量的部分還是要多所著墨，而且必須要強力的幫他們爭取！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:56.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:57.025000+08:00","text":"過去他們入伍的時候並沒有這樣的規劃，這個部分再請部長多費心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:57.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:26:57.405000+08:00","text":"另外跟主席借一點時間。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:26:57.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:27:29.289000+08:00","text":"我們看到數發部資安署發布接獲FortiBleed情資，指出Fortinet防火牆或VPN的憑證可能已經遭到竊取。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:27:29.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:27:58.005000+08:00","text":"這個情資已經列出受害網站，請各單位要注意配合，在今天下班之前，針對Fortinet的設備升級，最新版本無法升級的應該暫停使用；升級以後管理的應該要重新登入，以改用高強度雜湊演算法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:27:59.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:28:00.427000+08:00","text":"為什麼要特別提到這個部分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:28:00.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:28:04.471000+08:00","text":"去年在11月12號有招標一個六點多億的資安建置案，這對國防部來說其實非常重要，因為它甚至整合BNS國軍營區網路管理核心系統，一旦整個設備遭到入侵，等同於讓駭客可以取得整個軍區網路的監控及控制權。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:28:27.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:28:40.337000+08:00","text":"3月份的時候，我們委員會有委員特別提出來，在質詢的時候，陸軍有說在服務計畫書的階段有疑慮還可以再審。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:28:40.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:28:56.548000+08:00","text":"現在才6月份，資安署已經正式要求所有Fortinet使用單位都要立即更改密碼，而且限管介面、升級設備，證明了當時並不是我們多慮，而是陸軍、國防部把這個國防邊界防火牆的真實風險，當成得標以後的行政問題。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:28:56.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:29:13.801000+08:00","text":"在決標的過程當中，我們當時提出來，還有徐委員也有提出，這在決標的邏輯、設備選型到資格審查，幾乎每一個關鍵環節都有疑點。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:29:13.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:29:16.023000+08:00","text":"一個關係國軍機敏網路跟安全的系統最終由資安經驗最少的廠商，而且在不降價的情況下得標！","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:29:16.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:29:42.201000+08:00","text":"當時參與投標的甚至還有中華電信，可是我們選的廠商卻是經驗最少的，而且沒有做過大型資安設備經驗的廠商，他的設備又選用近年被多國情報機構示警有高風險的設備，甚至國安認證也都不具備的情況之下得標了。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:29:42.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:29:43.942000+08:00","text":"我們在3月質詢當時一再強調，現在才6月，數發部已經提出這樣的警訊，就此部分你們當時跟現在有採取什麼樣的作為嗎？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"解次長駿山","start":"2026-06-24T11:30:11.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:30:14.660000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我是通次室次長。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"解次長駿山","start":"2026-06-24T11:30:14.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:30:27.003000+08:00","text":"有關Fortinet這家公司，當時我們已經做過全面性的調查，它在歐洲是一個使用非常廣泛的資安管控公司。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"解次長駿山","start":"2026-06-24T11:30:28.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:30:53.367000+08:00","text":"它在數發部及各家廠商也都有相關的防火牆漏洞要修補的公告，關於各家的公告，我們都會從數發部網站獲得之後，同步告訴全國軍的所有系統做同樣的設備更新。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:30:53.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:31:05.876000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講得非常清楚，當時有三家廠商，其中有很多比較大的資安管理系統建置的經驗，可是你們卻沒有選擇！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:31:06.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:31:12.961000+08:00","text":"你們選擇最沒有經驗而且最貴的，然後它的設備已經受到警示，這點當時也有提出來。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:31:12.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:31:31.053000+08:00","text":"那時候是說還在服務計畫書的階段，照理說，服務計畫書就是它得標的結果，可是你們那時候卻還用服務計畫書讓它有機會做調整，這部分我想現在先……你要回答嗎？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳參謀長建義","start":"2026-06-24T11:31:31.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:31:40.136000+08:00","text":"報告委員，有關於您剛才講的，包含徐委員和您所指導及提醒的這個案子，陸軍非常重視。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳參謀長建義","start":"2026-06-24T11:31:41.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:31:54.921000+08:00","text":"就兩點說明：第一個，除了得標廠商的資本額之外，我們也是著重其履約實績，它在國內有實際上在資安方面的履約；第二個，有關Fortinet的疑慮，我們目前是要求要經過我們國家的資安認證，也就是如果確實有疑慮，就不會安裝這個防火牆。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:31:54.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:31:56.662000+08:00","text":"我剛剛已經講得很清楚，我們在3月質詢，數發部也在6月、即幾天前，已經通報所有的相關單位，請部長要慎重地去了解這個部分。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:32:22.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:32:29.105000+08:00","text":"就我了解，數發部本來就會定時公布各項防火牆漏洞，不是只有Fortinet，也有其他相關的都會定時公布。","quality":0.489},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:32:29.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:32:52.048000+08:00","text":"不是，這個已經造成七萬多臺受到影響，而且全球有一百多個國家都受到影響，這是一個情資，是數發部獲得Fortinet可能已經遭受竊取的情資才警示的。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:32:52.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:32:53.850000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我們要求……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:32:53.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:33:05.284000+08:00","text":"我沒有否定委員的講法，我只是在說明數發部都會針對不同的防火牆設備，定時地去公布哪些有漏洞的狀況。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:33:05.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:33:06.284000+08:00","text":"部長，沒有關係……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:33:05.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:33:14.248000+08:00","text":"所以不是單純只針對Fortinet，它對其他各項的資安防火牆，都會有一些定時的發布。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:33:14.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:33:29.196000+08:00","text":"部長，我知道，那個部分數發部會有它的權責在，可是我現在說的是，這一個是國軍營區網路管理核心系統，不是普通的防火牆，是整個軍網的中樞！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:33:29.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:33:41.785000+08:00","text":"我們每年編了大筆的預算，我們一直要做很嚴密的資安管控，也編了這麼高的預算去做這樣的服務，可是才多久的時間就已經發生這樣的問題？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:33:41.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:33:53.352000+08:00","text":"請國防部還有相關單位要正視這個問題，而且儘可能在很快的時間內提出說明，好不好？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:34:00.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:34:13.358000+08:00","text":"可能我們沒有辦法要求政府公開受害的IP或帳號，避免造成二次風險，可是國防部不能迴避責任，因為這牽涉到我們所有國軍的整個軍區網路、監控以及控制權。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:34:13.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:34:14.859000+08:00","text":"所以就這個部分，我們要求國防部應該對立法院要有一個機密的說明，比如說，像陸軍國防部軍網維運商、得標廠商還有關鍵基礎設施，是否出現在FortiBleed的情資清單當中？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:34:14.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:34:15.039000+08:00","text":"要怎麼樣完成逐項的鑑識跟補救？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:34:15.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:34:46.471000+08:00","text":"就此部分是否可以在一定的期限內提出具體說明跟補救措施？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:34:50.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:34:52.935000+08:00","text":"委員是希望我們提書面報告，是不是？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:34:53.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:34:57.558000+08:00","text":"依你們現在掌握的，剛剛我們提到的這些單位有沒有在這個清單裡面？","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:00.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:01.320000+08:00","text":"因為已經很多天了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:01.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:03.681000+08:00","text":"所以委員是希望我們事後提一個報告嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:05.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:10.483000+08:00","text":"看部長認為應該要提報告，還是要做一個機密的說明？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:11.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:16.230000+08:00","text":"我們去跟委員說明就好了，還是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:17.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:24.327000+08:00","text":"你們也要說明後續，因為剛剛你們說這個廠商有實績，其實並不對，因為不是沒有實績……","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:24.327000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:25.327000+08:00","text":"Fortinet本來就是一個合規的資安設備，數發部本來就會定時公布。","quality":0.031},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:24.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:26.269000+08:00","text":"好，委員如果想要知道一些狀況，我們再跟您這邊做溝通。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:36.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:52.386000+08:00","text":"我們並不希望每次提到問題，而且是問題已經發生了，並且全世界都受到影響，數發部也提出警示……所以國防部的立場應該要立即補救，不可以造成傷害，而不是幫廠商說它是合規的。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:35:52.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:35:54.466000+08:00","text":"我們每次提出問題，聽到的都是國防部在幫廠商講話，這是讓我們覺得最不能接受的，因為我們用的是納稅錢。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:02.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:07.570000+08:00","text":"我們沒有幫廠商講話，因為漏洞的示警、預警，本來就是數發部定時在做的，我們根據預警都會就這些相關設備完成漏洞的修補。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:07.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:08.250000+08:00","text":"定期示警跟獲得情資是不一樣的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:08.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:10.951000+08:00","text":"這一次是獲得情資，是已經被駭，而且它的VPN跟所有的防火牆已經有可能被竊，這個才是我們擔心的。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:10.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:34.095000+08:00","text":"如果我們連這個都做不到，以後不要說你們還可以做多好的資安防護，因為編再多的錢給你都沒用！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:34.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:46.818000+08:00","text":"你買的設備其實已經被駭或者被竊取，或者你防堵的措施沒有辦法去做有效的因應，我們沒有辦法相信編再多的預算給國防部是有用的。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:47.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:47.678000+08:00","text":"部長，在幾天內可以提出具體說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:57.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:36:59.109000+08:00","text":"我們再跟委員做說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:36:59.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:00.390000+08:00","text":"你們現在有掌握了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-06-24T11:37:00.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:01.410000+08:00","text":"因為發生很多天了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-06-24T11:37:02.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:07.233000+08:00","text":"我們找時間跟委員做個說明，好不好？謝謝。感謝。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席（馬委員文君）","start":"2026-06-24T11:37:07.733000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:13.733000+08:00","text":"接下來請黃建賓委員、黃建賓委員，黃建賓委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（馬委員文君）","start":"2026-06-24T11:37:14.033000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:19.175857+08:00","text":"請洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（馬委員文君）","start":"2026-06-24T11:37:19.475857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:27.761571+08:00","text":"今天登記質詢委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（馬委員文君）","start":"2026-06-24T11:37:28.061571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:37:56.061571+08:00","text":"本日會議有黃仁委員、林楚茵委員、黃建賓委員、徐巧芯委員、陳冠廷委員以及鍾佳濱委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，刊登公報；委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，請國防部兩週內以書面答復；委員有約定期限者，從其所定。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}