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同意是共同來完成憲法的一個設計這各位其實也不用去長篇大論大家都很清楚人事同意權其實就是建立在一個民主的正當性不是任何一方可以來壟斷不然我如果壟斷我總統提名我就要跪不可能立法院到最後只要誰"},{"start":226.588,"end":245.885,"text":"人數比較多 那我就把你給否決掉那同意權的一個行使 那本來就可以 我就不要可是問題如果全部是你送過來 我全部都不要那就是造成這樣 就是癱瘓我的問題會跟別人比較不一樣在座幾位苦主 你們有沒有什麼好的良方秘書長 來"},{"start":250.481,"end":271.651,"text":"要問我 這真的是總統跟貴院一定要去折衝協力我們只能這樣等待而已這也很麻煩 折衝 你說折衝又叫什麼 協力這有說嗎 沒有說啊因為這個就是一個憲政體制我們有折衝啊 我們折衝之後就變熟了"},{"start":273.817,"end":302.24,"text":"啊出來的結果就是你們全部都缺啊來 劉建新考試院的 你們的比較少嘛你有什麼補嗎其實當初我們的狀況當然也是經過各種溝通啦所以我想我的答案大概跟高明處長不會有太大的差別這個就很麻煩啦在野黨一定去跟你講說喔我這個就是在落實權力的制衡啦我們一直說都不會通過就是在癱瘓啦兩方講法就是如此"},{"start":304.637,"end":320.366,"text":"你們都不喜歡嗎?你們都不建議?不,給我們建議,給我們立法院建議,不要立法院來,立法院我跟你講,現在就是執政黨,賴總統提了什麼?立法院這邊就是,不用說那麼多啦,不會送啦,都不會過啦。制衡嘛,講的就是制衡嘛。到最後的結果就是癱瘓嘛。"},{"start":332.013,"end":347.877,"text":"你會覺得人質同意權不是制衡的一個工具變成癱瘓國家的一個武器可是現狀就是如此會造成一個空轉今天的專報我是認為是讓大家去想凸顯這樣的一個問題就不用去罵"},{"start":350.066,"end":368.876,"text":"罵說這個人選好不好不用去罵說立法院那為什麼全部都是否決掉各方講法會有所不同但立法院是比較會招人詬病的地方就是連審查都不審查這是立法院我們自己有缺失的一個地方可是這造成一個問題部長"},{"start":371.337,"end":393.132,"text":"你像現在法界 或者說秘書長這法界它也造成一個寒蟬的一個效應啊每一批一批一批這樣被封殺完以後大家就想說 欸 後一批是不是我們會被擺脫掉這個也很好玩喔這個有時候不用送到立法院來 不用全面對決我猜我就可以猜得到因為的確是 我們機構有徵詢包括總長人選我們都有徵詢 沒人有意願"},{"start":397.304,"end":421.227,"text":"真的意願很低因為所以就變成說因為要總長要提名一定要去有一個德高望重品德學經歷非常的豐富而且在檢察官的威望有一定的聲望威望所以這部分很可惜那次的提名我們是沒有或實在是非常可惜"},{"start":421.727,"end":424.209,"text":"那現在這樣的話我們都有想過這個問題但是要提誰總是要醫院每個都拒絕那變成說一個我們也是很困擾的一個問題"},{"start":434.907,"end":452.081,"text":"總統要提名,一定會問過你們他那個一定會有徵詢一些,譬如推薦徵詢嘛是嘛,是像譬如說選卷小組推薦小組,一定要有一個,好像一個題庫一樣這些哪一些人才,譬如說我要十個我可能去問初八、二十個,或是從這裡來選,看什麼人不錯還是怎麼樣"},{"start":457.864,"end":479.261,"text":"你不然他最近不該管啦因為德高望重啦學術在學界有聲望啦我想在學術有聲望跟那個在俗上或學界上會有聲望如果提名被否決這個是所以在業界裡面那是那是我想大概不願意自己以他自己來講不願意看到這種的結果啦"},{"start":480.114,"end":496.953,"text":"你有安的想法就不是如此喔你有安的想法 你很有聲望 你很有學術成就我理都不理你 我連審查我都不給你審查這就變成意氣之爭啦 說實在話現在就變成一個意氣之爭我的意思是說 如何去 這個互信完全都不夠 你們也看得出來"},{"start":498.252,"end":517.987,"text":"各位苦主裡面看得最清楚,看得很多人都在點頭啊,就是草野之間沒有互信嘛,沒有辦法來合作嘛,不然共同來推薦其實都是很好的一個方式啊,問題連共同推薦大家都不要啊,所以就是說這個互信沒有辦法去建立,尤其像中選會那是很獨立的一個機關,"},{"start":520.609,"end":541.576,"text":"任何人來 當中選會委員 誰能 你說他會站在什麼藍的立場 綠的立場 誰敢就是把那個選務去把它做好這高度的一個獨立的一個機關 到最後也是變成這樣不會過就是因為你不會過啊所以很麻煩 麻煩如此啊 檢察總長如此啊所以顯然 總部長你這裡也沒有報還有什麼人沒有報 那個監察院 黃士卓秘書長"},{"start":549.809,"end":558.717,"text":"監察院的立場 其實我們會認為在司法院大法官的判決裡面 釋字632號裡面說得很清楚總統以及立法院都負有忠誠義務"},{"start":567.225,"end":592.179,"text":"也就在這個審理的過程提名跟審查的過程那我們會這樣子來看就是監察院總共提名有七類七款的規定那有七類的相關的專業那這相關的專業我相信在立法院審查的過程也期待立法院大院能夠針對這些專業對於這些提名人做忠誠的審查"},{"start":593.3,"end":597.969,"text":"所以我想這是一個最重要的一個我們要建議的方向"},{"start":600.175,"end":624.646,"text":"對一半 這個在2024年以前講這些話都通過了2024 520以後憲法法庭理論上來講大法官做出來的這些判決憲法法庭的一個判決本來是各個憲政機關本來都要收到約束連那個都是老百姓的權利義務很好的一個"},{"start":626.046,"end":635.933,"text":"一個指引啦可是呢你現在去講憲法法庭的一個判決大家視而不見就會很麻煩這個就會變成大家相互毀滅"},{"start":637.369,"end":663.679,"text":"我們本來是一個監督是一個制衡的一個地方憲政的設計本來也是如此可是走到現在大家我看你們起來都垂頭喪氣老百姓期待的其實就是立法院是一個權力的一個制衡憲政機關的一個設計本來也是如此不是大家相互來做一個毀滅還是完全都是杯葛否則這個國家怎麼樣的運轉下去"},{"start":666.02,"end":686.749,"text":"我都覺得有點擔心啦你們沒有一四人都做官啦我們也沒有一四人都全部在做這個立法院啦所以有時候我就會想說立法院到底怎麼了怎麼大家在相互毀滅這個就非常的一個不好顯然你們也沒有補啦但是至少凸顯出來這樣的一個專報就是說立法院本來是一個"},{"start":687.489,"end":711.425,"text":"按照憲政設計 它本來要建立一個民主的正當性我們是要來監督 我們是要來制衡我們不全然是要來毀滅說 哎 這是執政黨的 因為你選贏我我討厭你 國會剛好我多數全部都是杯葛 這個都是一場災難啊但是顯然 各位沒有更好的解方各位有沒有解方的 願意自告奮勇的都沒有"},{"start":714.441,"end":718.547,"text":"檢查會也沒有 卡車會也沒有 司法會也沒有 通常會也沒有 公平會也沒有 中學會也沒有沒有答案了 這讓社會去評價 大家辛苦啦苦主 但是還是要努力啦 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:30:15.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:30:40.728000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，我現在有請以下幾位苦主：司法院高秘書長、考試院劉秘書長、監察院黃秘書長、法務部鄭部長、公平交易委員會主任秘書、國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書及中選會主任秘書，他們都是苦主。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T10:30:40.728000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:30:42.981000+08:00","text":"請高秘書長、劉秘書長、黃秘書長、鄭部長及各主任秘書。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:30:42.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:30:53.188000+08:00","text":"今天要來就教幾位，今天的專報其實也有其意義，召委也煞費苦心。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:30:54.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:07.117000+08:00","text":"關於立法院的人事同意權，我相信大家都會肯認，其實同意權是要建立民主的正當性，倒不是任何一方可以壟斷。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:09.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:29.015000+08:00","text":"本來憲法的設計就是一個相互制衡的機制，就是總統享有人事任命權、程序發動權與人選形成權，而立法院透過審查與同意權的行使，展現民主正當性。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:29.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:31.577000+08:00","text":"我為何要說你們是苦主？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:31.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:31.977000+08:00","text":"高秘書長，司法院大法官現在缺額有幾個人？7個？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:31.977000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:34.447500+08:00","text":"現在只剩8個，所以少7個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:34.447500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:36.918000+08:00","text":"對嘛，我看你很無奈地用手這樣比說少了7個，所以你們院長就要代理，對不對？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:36.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:38.059000+08:00","text":"而檢察總長的部分，法務部部長，你被修理說要代理到什麼時候？","quality":0.346},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:54.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:31:59.221000+08:00","text":"你們在這裡也遇到了，但立法院同意權沒有過的話，到最後又變代理，這部分我覺得你也很辛苦，就不用多說了。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:31:59.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:00.262000+08:00","text":"至於通傳會的部分，你們是少幾個？4位嘛！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:00.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:00.802000+08:00","text":"所以你們主委也是代理。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"溫主任秘書俊瑜","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:00.802000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:01.802000+08:00","text":"對，是的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:01.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:02.384000+08:00","text":"中選會缺3個，但是你們主委現在就有人了嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"謝主任秘書美玲","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:17.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:18.799000+08:00","text":"是，主委已經就任了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:19.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:25.191000+08:00","text":"所以你看，如果是有講好的就比較容易通過啦！","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:26.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:30.980000+08:00","text":"考試院劉建忻秘書長，你們那邊也還有缺額？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:30.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:35.963000+08:00","text":"我們當時提7位委員，但有1位沒有過關。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:35.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:38.685000+08:00","text":"所以你們這樣是缺幾個？欠1位。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:38.685000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:42.287000+08:00","text":"缺幾個？1個。1個？對。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:42.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:43.548000+08:00","text":"所以你看，這實在是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:44.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:51.813000+08:00","text":"而監察院的部分，這個再來就好玩了，監察院黃適卓秘書長，你最大尾，全部都卸任嘛！","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:52.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:54.222000+08:00","text":"希望大院真的能夠通過。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:54.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.222000+08:00","text":"時間到了就全部都卸任啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:54.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.223000+08:00","text":"對，希望大院能夠通過。是啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.223000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:56.223000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，到時候一定要有人，不能沒半個人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.303000+08:00","text":"對，一定要通過，讓職權能夠繼續進行，這個職權非常重要。","quality":0.391},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.684000+08:00","text":"所以這個也麻煩耶！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:32:55.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:33:12.084000+08:00","text":"你們現在全部都變零，哇，這個好玩囉！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:33:14.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:33:24.954000+08:00","text":"我們一直在講，其實人事同意權是一個制衡，若到最後形成立法院變成癱瘓，這個就非常可惜。","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:33:26.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:33:35.241000+08:00","text":"總統去提名，立法院行使審查、同意，是共同完成憲法的設計。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:33:35.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:33:45.065000+08:00","text":"各位其實也不用去長篇大論，大家都很清楚，人事同意權就是建立在民主正當性，不是任何一方可以壟斷，不然如果要壟斷，總統提名，我就要過，不可能啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:33:45.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:33:53.150000+08:00","text":"立法院到最後就是只要誰的人數比較多，就把對方給否決掉。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:33:53.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:03.800000+08:00","text":"同意權的行使本來就可以選擇不要，但問題是，如果送過來的全部都不要，那就會造成癱瘓。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:03.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:09.745000+08:00","text":"我是問你們……我的問題會跟別人比較不一樣，在座的幾位苦主，你們有沒有什麼良方？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:09.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:09.885000+08:00","text":"請秘書長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:14.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:14.902000+08:00","text":"要問我？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:15.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:23.706000+08:00","text":"這真的是總統跟貴院一定要去折衝、協力的，我們只能這樣等待而已。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:25.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:26.947000+08:00","text":"這個也很麻煩耶！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:27.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:29.308000+08:00","text":"你說折衝與什麼？協力。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:30.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:31.229000+08:00","text":"這有講像沒講啊！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:32.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:33.690000+08:00","text":"因為這個就是憲政體制，就如同……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:34.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:34.731000+08:00","text":"我們有折衝啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:35.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:40.920000+08:00","text":"但我們折衝之後就變「相罵」，出來的結果就是你們全部都缺啊！沒錯！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:41.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:46.044000+08:00","text":"請考試院劉建忻秘書長回答，你們缺的比較少，你有什麼方法嗎？","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:46.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:34:53.670000+08:00","text":"其實當時我們的狀況當然也是經過各種溝通，所以我想我的答案大概跟高秘書長不會有太大的差別。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:34:54.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:00.575000+08:00","text":"這個都很麻煩，在野黨一定會跟你講說：「我這個就是在落實權力制衡。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:02.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:04.178000+08:00","text":"」我一直跟他們說：「都不通過，就是在癱瘓。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:05.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:11.099000+08:00","text":"」兩方講法就是如此，你們都沒有想法嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:11.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:13.780000+08:00","text":"你們都沒有建議？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:13.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:14.681000+08:00","text":"給我們立法院建議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:16.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:22.785000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，現在就是執政黨、賴總統提了什麼，立法院這邊的反應就是不用說那麼多啦，不爽啦，都不過啦！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:23.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:35:58.449000+08:00","text":"這講的就是制衡嘛，到最後的結果就是癱瘓，當然你會說人事同意權不是制衡的工具、不能變成癱瘓國家的武器，可是現狀就是如此啊，會造成空轉，所以今天的專報我認為是讓大家去想、去凸顯這樣的一個問題，就不用去罵說這個人選好不好、不用去罵說立法院為什麼全部都否決掉。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:35:59.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:36:11.175000+08:00","text":"各方講法會有所不同，但立法院比較會遭人詬病的地方，就是連審查都不審查，這個是我們立法院自己有缺失的地方。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:36:12.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:36:26.244000+08:00","text":"可是這造成一個問題，部長或者秘書長，現在這也造成了法界的寒蟬效應，每一批人，一批一批這樣被封殺完以後，大家想說下一批是不是會換自己被拜託？","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:36:28.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:36:34.670000+08:00","text":"這個也很好玩，有時候不用送到立法院來，不用全面對決，我猜就可以猜得到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T10:36:35.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:37:05.207000+08:00","text":"的確是，我們幾乎都有徵詢，包括總長的人選我們都有徵詢，但沒人有意願，真的意願很低，因為總長被提名的人選一定要德高望重、品德非常好、學經歷非常豐富，而且在檢察官中有一定的聲望、威望，所以這部分很可惜，那一次的提名沒有過實在是非常可惜！","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T10:37:05.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:37:08.209000+08:00","text":"現在這樣的問題，我們都有想過，但是要提誰，總是要他有意願，每個都拒絕，也變成是我們很困擾的一個問題。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:37:18.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:37:21.049000+08:00","text":"總統要提名一定會問過你們嘛。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T10:37:21.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:37:23.751000+08:00","text":"他一定會經過一些流程，譬如推薦、徵詢嘛。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:37:24.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:37:35.721000+08:00","text":"是嘛，譬如審薦小組、推薦小組，一定要有一個好像題庫一樣，裡面有哪一些人才，譬如我要10個，我可能去問儲備的20個，從這裡來挑選，看誰不錯，但是我跟你說，立法院水準不太高。因為……","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:37:35.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:37:48.629000+08:00","text":"什麼德高望重、在學界有聲望，立法院有時候目不識丁啊！","quality":0.522},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T10:37:50.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:38:03.081000+08:00","text":"我想在學術上、實務上或學界有聲望的人，如果提名被否決，在業界裡面來說，我想他自己大概不願意看到這種結果。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:38:04.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:38:12.343000+08:00","text":"立法院的想法就不是如此喔，立法院的想法是你很有聲望、你很有學術成就，但我理都不理你，我連審查都不審查，這就變成意氣之爭。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:38:12.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:38:40.386000+08:00","text":"我說實在話，現在就變成意氣之爭，互信完全不夠，你們也看得出來，各位苦主你們看得最清楚，我看很多人都在點頭，就是朝野之間沒有互信，沒有辦法來合作嘛，不然其實共同來推薦是很好的一個方式，問題是連共同推薦大家都不要，所以沒有辦法建立互信。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:38:41.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:38:50.671000+08:00","text":"尤其你看，像中選會是很獨立的機關，任何人來當中選會委員，你說他會站在藍的、綠的立場，誰敢！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:38:51.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:38:59.454000+08:00","text":"就是把選務做好，這是一個高度獨立的機關，但到最後也是變成這樣，不讓你過就是不讓你過，所以很麻煩！","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:39:00.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:39:04.556000+08:00","text":"大法官如此，檢察總長也是如此，顯然鄭部長你也沒辦法，還有誰有辦法？","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:39:05.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:39:05.576000+08:00","text":"監察院黃適卓秘書長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T10:39:13.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:39:22.717000+08:00","text":"監察院的立場，其實我們認為在司法院大法官釋字第632號解釋裡面說得很清楚，也就是在這個提名跟審查的過程，總統以及立法院都負有忠誠義務。","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T10:39:35.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:40:01.949000+08:00","text":"所以我們會這樣子來看，監察委員的提名總共有7款的規定，有7類相關的專業，這些相關的專業我相信在立法院審查的過程……也期待大院能夠針對這些專業，來對這些被提名人做忠誠的審查，我想這是我們要建議的一個最重要的方向。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:40:04.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:40:38.893000+08:00","text":"對一半，在2024年以前講這些話都通，理論上來講，大法官做出來的這些憲法法庭判決，各個憲政機關本來都要受到約束，連對老百姓的權利義務都是很好的指引，可是過了2024年的520以後，你現在去講憲法法庭的判決，大家視而不見，這個很麻煩，這就變成什麼？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:40:39.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:40:52.373000+08:00","text":"大家在相互毀滅，我們本來是一個監督、制衡的地方，憲政的設計本來也是如此，可是走到現在，我看你們大家站出來都垂頭喪氣。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:40:52.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:41:11.721000+08:00","text":"其實老百姓期待的是，立法院是對權力的一個制衡，憲政機關的設計本來也是如此，不是大家相互來做毀滅，或是說完全都是杯葛，否則這個國家怎麼樣運轉下去我都覺得有點擔心。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:41:12.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:41:22.845000+08:00","text":"你們不會一輩子都當官，我們也不會一輩子都在做立法委員，所以有時候我就會想說立法院到底怎麼了，怎麼大家都在相互毀滅？","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:41:22.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:41:47.220000+08:00","text":"這個就非常地不好，顯然你們也沒辦法，但是至少這樣的專報凸顯出來，立法院按照憲政設計本來是要建立民主的正當性，我們是要來監督、是要來制衡的，我們不全然是要來毀滅，說：「這是執政黨的，因為你選贏我，所以我討厭你，國會剛好我是多數，全部都杯葛。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:41:48.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:41:49.921000+08:00","text":"」這個就是一場災難啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:41:50.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:41:55.265000+08:00","text":"但是顯然各位也沒有更好的解方，各位有沒有解方、願意自告奮勇的？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:41:55.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:41:55.405000+08:00","text":"都沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:41:58.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:42:02.226000+08:00","text":"監察院也沒有、考試院也沒有、司法院也沒有、通傳會也沒有、公平會也沒有、中選會也沒有，好啦，那就沒答案了，這就讓社會去評價，大家辛苦了！","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-06-25T10:42:02.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:42:02.547000+08:00","text":"雖然是苦主，但是還是要努力，謝謝！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T10:42:03.047000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:42:04.475571+08:00","text":"謝謝莊召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T10:42:04.775571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:42:07.632714+08:00","text":"接下來請范雲委員詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}