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立然後沒有爭議的人選的話其實我們都會讓這樣的人選通過可是事實上現在我們發覺就是有這樣的問題常常提名出來的很多都是不管他的背景可能就是政黨色彩非常的濃厚或者是他有沒有超然獨立的這樣子的一個"},{"start":79.003,"end":106.197,"text":"一個中立性所以我們才會否決這樣的人選我想這是國民黨一直以來的立場也不容在這邊被扭曲那當然我想今天我們可以特別來針對這個部分來去探討就是首長因故出缺由副首長或其他人代理本來就是為了確保政務不中斷的一個權益之計但是本席也注意到近年來我國部分獨立的機關或憲政機關"},{"start":108.718,"end":127.904,"text":"在首長任期屆滿或因故出缺時往往出現一代理就代理非常久而且甚至透過修改組織法或行政命令讓應該經過立法院審查同意的首長由代理人無限期的行使職權那首長代理的制度"},{"start":128.484,"end":146.723,"text":"是不是已经变成执政当局规避立法院人事同意权行使的一个政治的桥门也严重的破坏了宪法上的权力分立跟制衡的一个原则所以在这边我首先要请教我们的司法院秘书长好 请看秘书长"},{"start":152.717,"end":169.608,"text":"高秘書長你好我想今天的各機關的報告我們都很清楚的看到分開看都說可以依法辦理而且運作穩定但我們合起來看問題很清楚司法院是說我們民主正當性無虞"},{"start":170.208,"end":193.319,"text":"那考試院是承認制度不起因司法院說運作穩定但NCC說只能維持基本的業務那公平會更說僅能勉強的維持我想這個部分的各機關都有不同的一個說法那當然我想司法院組織法第七條第五項是代理的一個合法的依據那但是呢"},{"start":194.48,"end":210.021,"text":"司法院的报告又说代理院长本来就是经立法院同意的大法官所以在民主的正当性无虞那请问一下高秘书长立法院当时同意的是他担任大法官还是担任司法院院长"},{"start":211.364,"end":227.06,"text":"應該是司法院 應該是大法官對 當時我們同意的是擔任大法官而不是司法院院長所以說是不是真的有這個代理的正當性呢然後再來就是我們代理的這個條款是為了防止司法權的停擺"},{"start":228.081,"end":257.681,"text":"而不是因為讓院長能夠職務能夠長期跳過正式任命那既然當時秘書長也講說我們當時通過他是大法官的任命也不是院長的任命所以這樣的代理我覺得也不能化解這個同意權的一個僵局也沒有辦法就是沒有限期的這個限制也會讓我們的這個臨時代理變成長期的治理那請問一下代理制度我剛剛講了就是說如果只能靠各機關自己"},{"start":257.961,"end":261.304,"text":"跟委員報告 我們並沒有變通我們是完全依照司法院組織法第七條第五項的規定產生的代理院長"},{"start":275.068,"end":296.224,"text":"對 那剛剛講了嘛 我們當時通過BP法說它是代理的制度可是你們現在有限期嗎 有期限嗎因為法律沒有規定期限對 所以這就是現在我們發覺的有一些漏洞可是要跟委員報告 其實一位這個由其他負擔司法政務的首長如果你是短期代理那個司法業務一定沒辦法順利推展"},{"start":296.938,"end":323.26,"text":"那所以呢 所以你認為這樣的僵局應該怎麼處理呢那就是要拜託大院跟總統你們要折衷協力趕快讓我們的院長出現那是不是也要請司法院也要拜託我們的賴總統要提出的人選是符合超然獨立符合這個中立性而且真正能夠讓社會各界所接受的人選呢我在想這是各個憲政機關自己要盡到的忠誠義務並不是司法院要去建議的"},{"start":324.009,"end":342.063,"text":"那我想現在剛剛你也提到賴總統應該是要跟立法院這邊來去折衝協調那我相信各院之間也應該有這樣的一個善盡你們的責任也應該要提出一個符合社會期待的各樣的人選那接下來我們請監察院秘書長跟法務部部長"},{"start":354.641,"end":373.413,"text":"兩位好我想請教一下祕書長就是說我們在監察院的報告裡面第三條有寫到就監察委員已經總統提名立法院同意任命所以也不至於會發生未經憲法程序同意任命之人卻得以長期實質行政"},{"start":374.413,"end":388.623,"text":"行使本院院長職權的一個狀況所以說我想請教秘書長你講的這句我剛講的這句話是不是說代理人也是宣要經過憲法程序取得民主的正當性才能夠行使職權"},{"start":389.523,"end":402.718,"text":"是的 我們這邊的意思也是這樣就是我們的監委除了院長 副院長以外的監委也都是立法院同意後才能夠擔任所以代理人也是經過立法院同意那如果一個沒有經過"},{"start":406.482,"end":420.393,"text":"這個立法院同意的程序卻用代理名義實質掌權那這樣的狀況是不是會變成變相的架空人事統一權破壞權力分立的一個疑慮呢我想我們只針對我們監察院監察院還不會有這個問題"},{"start":421.494,"end":448.39,"text":"好 那請教一下祕書長就是剛剛您提到這個部分如果說剛剛我們提到人事總長徐錫祥他被提名為人事總長那剛剛如果依照您這樣子的一個說法的話已經遭立法院否決現在又以代理名義行使檢查總長的職權那這樣是不是就是未經立法院同意任命卻實質行使該職務權利的憲政一律呢"},{"start":448.97,"end":473.311,"text":"這個解釋不是 我們監察院無權來做這個解釋那我們好 請教一下部長 好 法務部長那針對剛剛我所問到的這個部分就是徐西鄉被提名為檢察總長但是已經照這個經到立法院的一個否決那當然我想今天要探討就是說他代理我們的檢察總長這樣的職責是不是釋法"},{"start":477.779,"end":505.857,"text":"呃 代理齁 代理這部分是沒有違這個當然是釋法這個因為你們現在沒有這樣子一個相關的這個法對 他的委員報告齁這個代理事實上就是一個呃 事務 事務性暫時性的一個行政的一個處置齁當然現在徐義代理總裁代理一個多月齁一個多月齁那當然我們這個指定代理當然為什麼要指定他齁他當然說大院是沒有沒有那個一個一個一個通過的一個同意齁"},{"start":506.497,"end":521.806,"text":"但是我想代理跟一個任命的那是不同的一個事情但是因為最高檢察署不能夠一日沒有檢察總長那我們為什麼要指定他為什麼指派他我們要有推薦剛剛部長都有說明過我都有聽到但是呢針對這部分我們剛剛也講我們現在是針對制度的部分不是針對人的部分他的代理是一個制度啊對那現在他代理是沒有期限的嘛"},{"start":532.372,"end":559.873,"text":"那所以針對如果我們要增加期限的話這樣的一個修法來修這個法院組織法那請問部長是不是同意呢我們是如果說真的要這個當然要修一個那個法院組織法就是明定代理期限因為我跟委員報告那個代理期限平凡的如果說很短那個平凡的更替的確不利於那個"},{"start":562.234,"end":570.156,"text":"總長職權的一個運作而且跟委員報告因為部長認為多久的時間才不算是期限太大建立如果說有一定要修法的話我想我們業務報告這部分我們講得很清楚了當然以我們是目前是我們認為沒有急迫性"},{"start":579.119,"end":596.896,"text":"但是如果說真的要通盤考如果說要修法我們是說進行通盤考量機關功能跟實際運作的一個需求參考司法院組織法或監察組織法的規範這樣就一律機關的一個實務上的一個穩定的運作我現在是請教部長說您認為應該要多久的期限這部分"},{"start":597.737,"end":618.927,"text":"我想就是我其實我就是參考建立參考司法院跟監察院的組織法的相關的制度來因為剛剛您在報告的時候有提到嘛就有列舉過去其實有一些檢察總長都是有代理的潛力嘛您剛剛列舉了好多位那請問一下這些代理人當中啊有沒有任何一位是先被立法院否決為檢察總長之後又被指定代理檢察總長的"},{"start":622.401,"end":641.214,"text":"他那個這部分的確是這個是潛力是沒有但是我跟委員報告那個代理的確是不當然代理不能隨便找人啊他還是要去去針對的這個是所以所以剛剛我聽到因為我找我們那個推薦來來指派代理的徐代理總長"},{"start":641.974,"end":648.782,"text":"他是最高檢察署的主任檢察官剛剛我聽到您的報告 您舉的這些檢察總長部長我知道您剛剛已經有講過很多次 我非常清楚但是呢 我剛剛提到說您"},{"start":657.071,"end":674.037,"text":"您提出的這個歷任檢察總長代理的這樣的一個事例其實跟現在的這個徐錫祥這個代理檢察總長的狀況是完全不一樣所以我們今天特別為什麼會提出這樣的一個專報就是希望能夠把它法制化能夠讓代理能夠有一個期限"},{"start":674.757,"end":696.05,"text":"所以本席在這邊也希望我們應該是要面對現行這個制度的一個亂象所以本席是認為應該是要有三點具體的一個要求就是第一個明確的限縮代理的期限不能像現在這樣就是完全都沒有這個期限的限制"},{"start":696.67,"end":719.624,"text":"第二個就是要嚴格限縮代理的權限像美國的聯邦空缺改革法也明確的規範代理首長在代理的期間僅能維持日常政務的運作不能進行重大政策的變更也不能核定爭議性的法規亦不得進行高階人士的凍結或者調動第三我希望是能夠全面檢視並修正相關的組織法"},{"start":722.185,"end":749.031,"text":"那也希望針對這個委員任期屆滿未能產生新委員那原委員的延長的執行這個職務或者是由副主委代理的這個條款應該要刪除不合理的過度無限期延長的規定也希望行政跟立法機關能夠積極的面對人事的同意權那在這邊請問一下部長針對剛剛我所提的三項的這個具體的要求您的回應呢"},{"start":750.156,"end":769.752,"text":"我想美國的制度我想跟我們台灣的法制是不一樣的那代理檢查總長這的確性質是法定的代理那職權無法分割 不能說就是日常代理我想我們心中有人名因為總長那個訴訟法 刑訴訴訟法441條非常上述是"},{"start":773.494,"end":784.278,"text":"總長具名的如果說像我們採美國他只能做日常事務的代理那我們老百姓的訴訟權現在我可以說我現在的重點是我當然不是說我們要跟美國一樣是我們最在乎的所以要"},{"start":789.139,"end":794.466,"text":"我現在提的這個美國的這個聯邦公權改革法他為什麼會提這個是因為他們是認為能否繼續代理同意職務最高的法院認定了代理制度不能削弱國會的同意權"},{"start":804.498,"end":823.684,"text":"所以美國是連等待同意等待同意都設限制喔那現在台灣卻出現已經被立法院否決卻能夠代理的這個職權的問題所以在這個部分的話我們是覺得連美國的這個最高法院連被提名人在等待同意詞繼續代理都認為會削弱國會的一個同意權所以我們現在的狀況又更加嚴重所以所以這個部分我希望我們"},{"start":833.567,"end":847.672,"text":"我覺得我們應該是要好好的來去面對一個相關的問題如果說好認為剛剛部長也講了就說修法如果有這個必要性的話我們是建立一下司法院跟監察院的組織法不過我也在強調"},{"start":848.812,"end":864.64,"text":"我們新宋是有人民的輸送權這是憲法保障的權利那也只有總長他具名才有他個人具名來幫老百姓幫我們這些人民我們不否認檢查總長有這樣子的一個職權但重點是要經過立法院同意立法院審查同意的我覺得這樣通過的檢查總長他才能夠真正超然獨立去行使他的職權以上 謝謝 謝謝部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:54:12.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:54:30.736000+08:00","text":"首先我想謝謝召委今天特別安排「我國憲政機關、獨立機關首長代理制度之現況與精進」的專題報告，藉此凸顯目前我們所遇到的相關重要獨立機關首長代理的問題。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:54:33.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:55:31.028000+08:00","text":"對於立法委員來說，最重要的當然就是要嚴格審查由總統或行政院所提出來的人選，這些獨立機關的人選只要是符合社會期待、有超然獨立的人格，而不是硬推爭議人選的話，其實我們在立法院都一定會讓……如果具有超然獨立、沒有爭議的人選的話，其實我們都會讓這樣的人選通過，可是事實上現在我們發覺就是有這樣的問題，常常提名出來的，很多不管他的背景，可能就是政黨色彩非常濃厚，或者是他也沒有超然獨立這樣的中立性，所以我們才會否決這樣的人選，我想這是國民黨一直以來的立場，也不容在這邊被扭曲。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:55:32.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:55:45.875000+08:00","text":"當然，今天我們可以特別針對這個部分，探討首長因故出缺由副首長或其他人代理，本來就是為了確保政務不中斷的權宜之計。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:55:45.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:56:09.483000+08:00","text":"但是本席也注意到，近年來我國部分獨立機關或憲政機關在首長任期屆滿或因故出缺時，往往出現一代理就代理非常久，甚至透過修改組織法或行政命令，讓應該經過立法院審查同意的首長由代理人無限期的行使職權。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:56:09.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:56:23.917000+08:00","text":"首長代理的制度是不是已經變成執政當局規避立法院人事同意權行使的政治巧門，也嚴重破壞了憲法上的權力分立和制衡原則？","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:56:25.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:56:28.962000+08:00","text":"所以在這邊，我首先要請教司法院秘書長。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T10:56:29.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:56:29.603000+08:00","text":"好，請高秘書長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:56:35.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:56:36.378000+08:00","text":"高秘書長你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:56:38.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:57:08.215000+08:00","text":"今天各機關的報告，我們都很清楚看到，分開看都說可以依法辦理而且運作穩定，但我們合起來看，問題很清楚，司法院是說我們的民主正當性無虞，考試院是承認制度不齊一，司法院說運作穩定，但NCC說只能維持基本業務，公平會更說僅能勉強的維持，這個部分各機關都有不同的說法。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:57:09.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:57:24.369000+08:00","text":"當然，司法院組織法第七條第五項是一個代理的合法依據，但是司法院的報告又說，代理院長本來就是經立法院同意的大法官，所以在民主的正當性無虞。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:57:25.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:57:32.760000+08:00","text":"請問一下高秘書長，立法院當時同意的是他擔任大法官還是擔任司法院院長？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:57:35.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:57:36.446000+08:00","text":"應該是大法官。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:57:37.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:57:45.415000+08:00","text":"對，當時我們同意的是擔任大法官，而不是司法院院長，所以是不是真的有代理的正當性呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:57:46.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:57:54.884000+08:00","text":"再來就是我們的代理條款是為了防止司法權停擺，不是讓院長的職務能夠長期跳過正式任命。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:57:55.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:15.057000+08:00","text":"既然秘書長也說我們當時通過的是大法官的任命，也不是院長的任命，所以我覺得這樣的代理也不能化解同意權的僵局，也沒有辦法……就是沒有期限的限制，也會讓我們的臨時代理變成長期的治理。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:16.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:20.661000+08:00","text":"請問一下我剛剛講的代理制度，如果只能靠各機關自己變通，這就叫制度完整，還是制度也需要去做一些修改呢？","quality":0.391},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:20.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:24.304000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們並沒有變通，我們是完全依照司法院組織法第七條第五項的規定產生代理院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:38.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:42.432000+08:00","text":"對，剛剛講了嘛，我們當時通過的是代理的制度，可是你們現在有限期嗎？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:42.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:43.292000+08:00","text":"有期限嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:43.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:44.873000+08:00","text":"因為法律沒有規定期限。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:45.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:47.555000+08:00","text":"對，所以這就是現在我們發覺的一些漏洞，就是長期代理。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:58:47.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:58:59.204000+08:00","text":"可是要跟委員報告，其實一位尤其他是負擔司法政務的首長，如果你是短期代理司法業務，一定沒辦法順利推展。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:00.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:00.379000+08:00","text":"所以呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:00.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:02.620000+08:00","text":"所以你認為這樣的僵局應該怎麼處理呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:03.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:08.545000+08:00","text":"就是要拜託大院跟總統，你們要折衝、協力，趕快讓我們的院長出現。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:08.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:20.855000+08:00","text":"是不是請司法院也要拜託我們的賴總統，提出的人選符合超然獨立、符合中立性，而且真正能夠讓社會各界所接受的人選？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:20.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:26.240000+08:00","text":"我在想這是各個憲政機關自己要盡到的忠誠義務，並不是司法院要去建議的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:28.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:31.613000+08:00","text":"剛剛你也提到賴總統應該要跟立法院折衝……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:32.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:34.595000+08:00","text":"這是一個折衝、協力……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:34.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:44.523000+08:00","text":"我相信各院之間也應該善盡你們的責任，也應該要提出一個符合社會期待各樣的人選。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:44.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:45.063000+08:00","text":"接下來請監察院秘書長跟法務部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:45.063000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:57.641000+08:00","text":"是，委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:57.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T10:59:57.781000+08:00","text":"兩位好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T10:59:58.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:00:20.295000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下秘書長，在監察院的報告裡面，第三點有寫到，監察委員由總統提名經立法院同意後任命，所以也不至於會發生「未經憲法程序同意任命之人，卻得以長期實質行使本院院長職權」的狀況。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:00:21.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:00:31.623000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講的這句話，是不是說代理人也是要經過憲法程序，取得民主的正當性，才能夠行使職權？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T11:00:32.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:00:44.457000+08:00","text":"是的，我們的意思也是這樣，就是除了院長、副院長以外的監委，也都是立法院同意後才能夠擔任，所以代理人也是經過立法院同意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:00:44.457000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:00:45.457000+08:00","text":"好，所以也是一樣嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:00:45.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:00:59.570000+08:00","text":"如果沒有經過立法院同意的程序，卻用代理名義實質掌權，這樣的狀況是不是有變相架空人事同意權，破壞權力分立的疑慮呢？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T11:01:00.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:01:03.393000+08:00","text":"我想我們只針對監察院，監察院不會有這個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:01:04.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:01:31.370000+08:00","text":"好，請教一下秘書長，剛剛你提到的這個部分，如果依照您的說法，徐錫祥被提名為檢察總長已經遭立法院否決，現在又以代理名義行使檢察總長的職權，是不是就是未經立法院同意任命，卻實質行使該職務權力而有憲政疑慮呢？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-06-25T11:01:31.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:01:35.774000+08:00","text":"這個部分監察院無權解釋。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:01:35.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:01:40.958000+08:00","text":"那我們請教一下法務部部長。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:01:42.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:01:56.291000+08:00","text":"針對剛剛我所問的部分，徐錫祥被提名為檢察總長，但是已經遭到立法院否決，我今天要探討的就是他代理檢察總長的職責是不是適法？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:00.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:05.082000+08:00","text":"代理部分沒有違……這當然是適法，這個……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:05.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:07.063000+08:00","text":"因為你們現在沒有相關的法規。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:07.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:40.383000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，代理事實上就是一個事務性、暫時性的行政處置，現在徐代理總長才代理一個多月，雖然沒有通過大院的同意，但是我想代理跟任命是不同的事情，因為最高檢察署不能夠一日沒有檢察總長，而為什麼要指定他、指派他？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:40.383000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:41.383000+08:00","text":"我們那時候有推薦，他的確是法律專業、有行政歷練、溝通協調……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:40.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:41.824000+08:00","text":"是，我知道，剛剛部長已經有說明過，我都有聽到。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:41.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:43.405000+08:00","text":"但是針對這部分，剛剛我們也講現在是針對制度，並不是針對人……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:43.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:44.306000+08:00","text":"他的代理是一個制度啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:44.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:02:44.786000+08:00","text":"對，但現在他的代理沒有期限嘛！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:02:56.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:03:02.918000+08:00","text":"如果我們要增加期限來修法院組織法，請問部長是不是同意？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:03:04.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:03:27.375000+08:00","text":"如果真的要修院組織法明定代理期限的話，我跟委員報告，代理期限如果很短而頻繁更替，的確不利於總長職權的運作，因為能夠擔任……","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:03:27.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:03:28.215000+08:00","text":"是，部長認為多久的時間才不算是期限太短？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:03:28.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:03:33.136000+08:00","text":"這部分我們是建議……如果一定要修法的話，我想我們的業務報告在這部分講得很清楚了，目前我們認為沒有急迫性。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:03:42.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:03:56.253000+08:00","text":"如果要修法，我們建請通盤考量機關功能跟實際運作的需求，參考司法院組織法或監察院組織法的規範，以利機關實務上穩定運作。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:03:56.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:03:59.035000+08:00","text":"對，我現在是請教部長，您認為應該要多久的期限？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:03:59.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:06.460000+08:00","text":"關於期限部分，建議參考司法院跟監察院組織法的相關制度……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:07.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:15.704000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛您在報告的時候，就列舉過去一些檢察總長都是有代理的前例，您列舉了好多位。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:16.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:21.907000+08:00","text":"請問一下在這些代理人當中，有沒有任何一位是先被立法院否決為檢察總長之後，又被指定代理檢察總長的？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:26.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:26.682000+08:00","text":"這部分的確是沒有前例。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:26.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:29.244000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:29.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:37.389000+08:00","text":"沒有，但是我跟委員報告，代理當然不能隨便找人，還是要針對品德、操守、威望……","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:38.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:40.011000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛我聽到部長……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:41.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:47.417000+08:00","text":"因為我們推薦指派代理的徐代理總長，他是最高檢察署的主任檢察官……","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:48.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:49.639000+08:00","text":"我知道，部長，剛剛我聽到你的報告，您舉了這些檢察總長……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:49.639000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:50.639000+08:00","text":"他的確是素孚眾望，在整個業界是一個相當令人稱讚的人選。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:49.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:04:51.241000+08:00","text":"部長，我知道，你剛剛已經有講過很多次，我非常清楚。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:04:51.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:05:09.314000+08:00","text":"但是我剛剛提到您提出的歷任檢察總長代理的事例，其實跟現在徐錫祥代理檢察總長的狀況完全不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:05:09.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:05:17.017000+08:00","text":"我們今天為什麼會特別提出這樣的專報，就是希望能夠把它法制化，讓代理能夠有一個期限。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:05:18.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:06:25.149000+08:00","text":"本席也希望我們應該要面對現行制度的亂象，本席認為應該要有三點具體要求：第一個，明確限縮代理的期限，不能像現在這樣，完全都沒有期限的限制；第二個，嚴格限縮代理的權限，像美國的聯邦空缺改革法有明確的規範，代理首長在代理期間僅能維持日常政務運作，不能進行重大政策的變更，也不能核定爭議性的法規，亦不得進行高階人士的凍結或者調動；第三，我希望能夠全面檢視並修正相關的組織法，也希望針對委員任期屆滿未能產生新委員，原委員延長執行職務，或者是由副主委代理的條款，應該要刪除不合理、過度、無限期延長的規定，也希望行政跟立法機關能夠積極地面對人事同意權。","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:06:26.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:06:32.011000+08:00","text":"請問部長，針對剛剛我所提的三項具體要求，您的回應？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:06:33.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:06:47.268000+08:00","text":"我想美國的制度跟我們臺灣的法制是不一樣的，代理檢察總長的性質的確是法定代理，職權無法分割，也不能說就是日常代理。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:06:48.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:03.837000+08:00","text":"我想我們心中有人民，因為刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條的非常上訴是由總長具名的，如果我們採美國只能做日常事務的代理，關於老百姓在憲法規定的訴訟權，我們就沒辦法保障了……","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:04.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:04.357000+08:00","text":"部長，我現在的重點是……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:04.357000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:05.357000+08:00","text":"所以跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:04.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:05.717000+08:00","text":"我剛剛不是說我們要跟美國一樣……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:05.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:07.258000+08:00","text":"我們心中要有人民，人民的訴訟權是我們最在乎的，所以要每天……","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:12.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:15.203000+08:00","text":"我現在提的美國聯邦空缺改革法……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:15.203000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:16.203000+08:00","text":"美國沒有管到根本性的訴訟權嘛……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:15.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:15.664000+08:00","text":"為什麼我會提這個……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:15.664000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:16.664000+08:00","text":"我們人民的訴訟權不能一天沒有保護。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:15.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:31.859000+08:00","text":"是因為他們認為能否繼續代理同一職務，最高法院認定代理制度不能削弱國會的同意權，所以美國是連等待同意都設限制。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:37.961000+08:00","text":"現在臺灣反而出現已經被立法院否決，卻能夠代理職權的問題。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:37.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:44.363000+08:00","text":"所以在這個部分，我們覺得美國最高法院連被提名人在等待同意時繼續代理……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:44.363000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:45.363000+08:00","text":"不過美國那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:44.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:44.743000+08:00","text":"都認為會削弱國會的同意權……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:44.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:07:45.743000+08:00","text":"那個是國際媒體署，並不是檢察總長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:07:44.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:00.468000+08:00","text":"我們現在的狀況又更加嚴重，所以我希望我們應該要好好地面對相關的問題。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:02.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:05.950000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長也講如果修法有必要性的話，你也會尊重立法院。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:05.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:09.771000+08:00","text":"我們是建議像司法院跟監察院的組織法。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:10.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:15.114000+08:00","text":"我跟委員再強調，我們心中有人民，人民的訴訟權是憲法保障的權利。是。","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:15.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:21.597000+08:00","text":"也只有總長個人具名才能幫老百姓，幫我們這些人民伸張正義，跟最高法院提起非常上訴……","quality":0.541},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:21.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:22.778000+08:00","text":"我們不否認檢察總長有這樣的職權……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:22.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:23.778000+08:00","text":"委員提的是國際媒體署，不是最高檢察署。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:22.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:27.540000+08:00","text":"但重點是要經過立法院審查同意，我覺得這樣通過的檢察總長才能夠真正超然獨立行使職權。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:27.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:27.620000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝部長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:27.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:27.620000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:28.120000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:30.120000+08:00","text":"謝謝許宇甄委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:30.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:08:42.134286+08:00","text":"我想我們這次提這個法案，我們是……立法委員心中絕對是有人民，而且可能還比法務部心中更有人民。","quality":0.024},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:08:42.434286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:09:00.148571+08:00","text":"我們希望整個代理制度能夠明確化，因為代理畢竟是短暫的，我們不要讓它變成是一個常態化的機制，其實這個也無利於有關訴訟權益各方面的保護。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:09:00.448571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:09:06.734286+08:00","text":"最後一位是洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:09:07.034286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:09:12.748571+08:00","text":"今天所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:09:13.048571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:09:23.334286+08:00","text":"委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-25T11:09:23.634286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-25T11:09:34.777143+08:00","text":"委員蔡其昌、沈發惠、吳宗憲、傅崐萁所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}