{"error":false,"id":["170335"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170335,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170335","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-26","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":26,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T10:17:30+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T10:31:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c82107e79c65403f7ed5c701c2adc7b5d6a2ba89c27feb000dbf5db33f131730d363f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:17:30 - 10:31:59","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「少子化衝擊下國軍人力資源政策與未來因應規劃」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.1953437500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.5834687500000002,"end":2.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.45159375,"end":10.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":10.20659375,"end":11.117843750000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.383468750000002,"end":23.250968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.74034375,"end":63.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.81846875,"end":64.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.61971875,"end":75.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.60971875,"end":89.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.89096875,"end":86.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.78909375,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.30596875,"end":103.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.98096875,"end":103.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.99784375,"end":104.03159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.03159375000001,"end":104.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.16659375,"end":105.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.87096875,"end":105.95534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.95534375000001,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.02284375,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.72721875,"end":107.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.74409375,"end":108.46971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.82409375,"end":112.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.79409375,"end":124.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.11846875,"end":115.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.02409375,"end":134.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.13659375,"end":134.37284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.96346875,"end":137.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.38909375,"end":141.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":141.13971875000001,"end":151.24784375000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.26534375,"end":149.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.20159375,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.94409375,"end":165.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.04721875,"end":181.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.52971875,"end":185.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.31846875000002,"end":188.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.96346875,"end":191.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.00096875,"end":200.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.73784375000002,"end":204.65721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.14659375000002,"end":206.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.15471875,"end":209.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.19221875000002,"end":211.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.57596875000002,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":214.79909375000003,"end":215.27159375000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":215.38971875000001,"end":216.04784375000003,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":216.70596875,"end":217.22909375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":218.46096875,"end":222.29159375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":222.57846875,"end":224.89034375000003,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":225.98721875,"end":226.64534375000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":227.33721875,"end":238.64346875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":238.98096875000002,"end":243.06471875000003,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.72721875000002,"end":249.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":243.36846875,"end":243.70596875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.59096875,"end":261.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.53846875,"end":266.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.46596875,"end":268.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.76534375,"end":270.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.79034375000003,"end":272.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.62971875,"end":273.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.16534375000003,"end":275.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.12284375,"end":279.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.17284375,"end":280.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.45534375,"end":287.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":288.94784375,"end":299.03909375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":300.15284375000005,"end":300.82784375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":301.19909375000003,"end":314.88471875000005,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.83846875,"end":330.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":327.38909375000003,"end":330.64596875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.64596875,"end":330.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.71346875,"end":331.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.14784375000005,"end":336.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.53096875,"end":356.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.40971875,"end":361.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.40909375,"end":371.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.51721875000004,"end":375.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.10721875,"end":376.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.96784375000004,"end":381.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.97971875,"end":383.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":383.32971875000004,"end":385.28721875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":385.92846875000004,"end":392.69534375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":393.06659375000004,"end":395.49659375000005,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":395.71596875,"end":397.52159375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":397.82534375,"end":403.15784375000004,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":404.13659375000003,"end":406.44846875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.97596875000005,"end":413.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.48534375,"end":417.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.66596875000005,"end":421.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.61471875,"end":424.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.56784375,"end":426.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.96846875,"end":430.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":431.96346875,"end":432.38534375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":432.97596875000005,"end":450.98159375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":451.36971875,"end":457.27596875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.29721875,"end":457.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.05221875,"end":463.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.30846875000003,"end":471.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.51409375000003,"end":477.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.38659375000003,"end":479.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.25971875000005,"end":488.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.96284375000005,"end":499.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.44221875000005,"end":503.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.10409375000006,"end":504.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.18409375000005,"end":505.79159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.41596875000005,"end":507.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.00221875000005,"end":509.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.63909375000003,"end":510.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.78659375,"end":513.2334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.6553437499999,"end":517.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.94159375,"end":522.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.71284375,"end":529.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":530.0578437500001,"end":537.90471875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":538.30971875,"end":539.71034375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":540.45284375,"end":541.3640937499999,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":541.81971875,"end":542.25846875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":543.37221875,"end":544.3003437500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.4184687500001,"end":547.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.6709687499999,"end":551.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":551.0503437500001,"end":552.4172187500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.4172187500001,"end":553.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.88534375,"end":565.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.1028437500001,"end":585.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.9309687500001,"end":587.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.10346875,"end":590.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.7234687499999,"end":599.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.6797187500001,"end":607.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.0034687500001,"end":613.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.51721875,"end":618.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.88784375,"end":624.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.24971875,"end":627.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.12659375,"end":635.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.3915937500001,"end":637.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.87659375,"end":640.9265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.9265937499999,"end":641.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.93909375,"end":641.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.95596875,"end":643.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.36096875,"end":643.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.81221875,"end":651.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.9965937500001,"end":654.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.9665937500001,"end":668.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":668.55096875,"end":677.37659375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.84096875,"end":677.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":677.7140937500001,"end":679.1147187500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.6084687500002,"end":680.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.5659687500001,"end":685.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.7465937500001,"end":696.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":697.0359687499999,"end":700.0734687500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.1453437499999,"end":700.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":700.3940937500001,"end":707.1440937500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":707.7009687500001,"end":707.9709687500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":708.57846875,"end":726.9890937499999,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.6809687500001,"end":732.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.9797187500001,"end":743.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":744.3703437500001,"end":746.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.15471875,"end":747.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.9140937500001,"end":749.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":750.12471875,"end":764.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":764.56971875,"end":764.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":766.13909375,"end":782.6765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":783.1828437500001,"end":819.0759687500001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":802.57221875,"end":804.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":817.8272187500002,"end":820.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.1515937500001,"end":822.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.94034375,"end":848.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.50596875,"end":864.0647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":864.5203437500002,"end":864.53721875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":864.53721875,"end":864.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":864.57096875,"end":867.64221875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":866.93346875,"end":867.7434687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.129,"end":10.464,"text":"主席麻煩部長請顧部長我們請次士也上來好了是 黃偉豪"},{"start":12.635,"end":31.525,"text":"好 部長早我第一個先請教一下因為在7月6號中國解放軍跟俄羅斯在聯合軍演那7月6號他們在用他們的核子動力潛艦發射了一枚潛射型的洲際彈道導彈朝向太平洋"},{"start":32.365,"end":58.11,"text":"當然中國的文宣戰 心理戰 認知戰把它描述成飛越 它有動畫喔那個動畫拍得很假 但是它有個動畫飛越日本的上空然後好像快要接近美國本土但事實上不是這樣子啦那我先請教就是就目前國防部掌握的狀況這一個載台是什麼發射的是什麼然後入境 另外他們"},{"start":59.35,"end":75.258,"text":"發射這一枚淺色型的洲際彈道導彈,它的戰略上目的是什麼?委員好,請自市市長,回應剛剛委員所關切的這個問題第一個,發射的載台跟位置呢,我想我們"},{"start":76.687,"end":102.982,"text":"有很多工程已經先同步公佈出來了他大概就是在廣東南邊那是從海面發應該是說從海面發射那海面是潛射他是海面上發射的對那應該是說怎麼樣的發射或者是什麼樣的彈種早上部長在回答媒體的時候我想我們也做了做了具體的說明說是我們這邊所得到的掌握到的應該是巨浪二型那至於什麼樣的"},{"start":103.342,"end":124.085,"text":"巨浪二型大概就6000公里上下嘛大概7000那至於什麼樣的管道途徑這個就不跟文言說抱歉你說情資掌握得到的途徑你可以講說你們自己掌握的但是這應該是交換情報啦因為它飛越距離相當遠那它是用哪一型的核子動力潛艦發射的"},{"start":125.28,"end":136.649,"text":"這個在應該是澳洲的外交部他也對外說明說他們所以你們是看報紙知道的不是吧這恐怕我們也沒辦法跟您具體的說明說因為國安會秘書長直接PO在那個X上面"},{"start":138.424,"end":164.919,"text":"第一個這應該是情報交換系統得知的啦是是我們有多元的情資交換來源那所以我想我們對這個載台然後還有部長我要問的是這一個這些都有掌握我想公開資訊我再問沒有意思我要問的其實是這一個就是說所謂的多元情資交換它是偶發性的一次性的或定期性的也就是我們是不是在一個情資交換的network裡面"},{"start":166.307,"end":181.628,"text":"會固定就我們相關的重要情資做即時性的交換或者是偶一為之有一方要釋放特定的訊息透過我們當作訊息載台把它釋放出來這兩個意義不一樣啦我們現在的情資交換是常態性的嗎"},{"start":183.698,"end":212.385,"text":"是OK好那細節我就不問那現在掌握的是巨浪二型那當然它中國習慣性吹牛啦它講飛越日本上空看起來如果在我們東南方它最多是飛越菲律賓上空不會是日本的上空這個時候它在7月6號發射這一枚核子發射這一枚洲際彈道導彈中國的目的是什麼"},{"start":215.542,"end":224.33,"text":"我想這個各國都已經對這個他的這樣子的一個一個試射這樣子的一個"},{"start":227.536,"end":249.406,"text":"彈道飛彈都已經有所譴責了,我們並不想去評論中國的目的但是我們想要說明的是,他們已經對區域和平穩定造成威脅紐澳、北約、日本、美國都譴責他們破壞區域的和平穩定"},{"start":250.646,"end":272.733,"text":"那有這個北約的秘書長呂特他也講了一些話說不要再天真看待中國的威脅但是呢有一方哪一國我就不說了提到說中國展現他的核能力已經從陸地到海上那他這個核能力呢搭配之前的川習會"},{"start":274.215,"end":298.589,"text":"以及對台的軍售他等於透過這個動作在喊價希望去對台美之間的安全合作做一些喊價的動作部長你怎麼看我覺得我們還是要從這個如何來維持印太區域和平穩定這個作業那麼很明顯的美國的印太戰略就是集體嚇阻"},{"start":300.219,"end":313.509,"text":"集體嚇阻,這個集體嚇阻的傾向已經越來越明確所以不管是日本、澳洲、菲律賓甚至韓國,我想都在第一島鏈的集體嚇阻範圍之內"},{"start":316.491,"end":336.3,"text":"我把我另外一個題目就帶進來,上一次我問那個環太平洋,台灣沒有參與,但是你特別在回答的時候,請我們國人要注意到兩個演習,一個是堅毅之龍,一個勇敢之盾,然後後來呢,美國陸軍太平洋司令部的司令克拉克,"},{"start":337.574,"end":356.563,"text":"他公開指出這一些這麼多年來這些大大小小的演習叫做穿珍珠也就是他是串起來的他把它取一個名字叫做Operation Pathways那我們知道Operation Pathways這個任務或戰鬥行動是二戰的時候"},{"start":357.463,"end":379.103,"text":"美軍要打等於二戰的時候從島鏈佔領打到日本本土的一個代號名稱他現在把這取這個名稱而他在克拉克講得很明白這些穿針珠起來的目的就是嚇阻中國對台灣的武力威脅所以你提到那兩個演習是不是也是這一個戰鬥行動戰鬥任務裡面的"},{"start":382.708,"end":402.755,"text":"兩項之一我想所有在美國在印太區域他為了要維持他的這個印太區域和平穩定那也朝向集體嚇阻的這個角度出發他要進行跟各相關國家進行聯合演訓我想其目的當然"},{"start":404.195,"end":430.173,"text":"就相當的清楚所以我們有在這些聯合演習如果戰鬥行動目的是為了維繫台海和平穩定嚇阻中國對台武力威脅那台灣是主角之一嘛所以在這些穿珍珠的一串珍珠裡面台灣有沒有在這串珍珠裡面我們的演習我們的訓練我們的bilateral exercise"},{"start":433.535,"end":449.981,"text":"我想我沒有辦法在這邊透露過多的細節,我是認為我們站在第一島鏈的前緣,就這整個第一島鏈的位置我們也在樞紐的地位,所以我想台灣在"},{"start":451.519,"end":477.017,"text":"集體的嚇阻的戰略之下我們當然扮演的重要角色邏輯上跟我們的安全直接相關我們不太可能不在這一串珍珠裡面嘛戰爭需要想定想定需要演練 演練再修訂修正之後再演練所以這一個我尊重部長的不便透露太多細節我跳到我最後一題"},{"start":478.479,"end":499.374,"text":"最近有一個媒體報導美軍他講是美軍喔年輕的男女軍人密集的進出龍潭特戰指揮部這個有或沒有其實我們光搭高鐵遇到梅雨老師頻率之高我們大概有感受我現在要請教就是這些訊息的揭露"},{"start":500.515,"end":528.7,"text":"能揭露跟不能揭露本身就有意義以往協訓雙方演訓或者在澎湖或者在屏東這些訊息通常我們是不對外揭露的那目前包含去年的漢光印太司令部的J5的將軍的名牌一直到現在這些請問一下這個訊息的揭露是在台美默契下的揭露或者是不經意被發現"},{"start":530.243,"end":547.815,"text":"我想我們都沒有在做特意的主動揭露我想依照台美相關的默契我們都還是維持這個低調跟不公開的方式那這些軍人是現役或者是退役的contractor"},{"start":548.96,"end":565.599,"text":"跟委員報告,我想我沒有辦法做過多的說明。OK,好,這我尊重。那,原額大概你也不便講,因為美國的NDA預算書裡面看到原額是寫400,但是看起來量我們不曉得,但是台美的合作對我們的安全有幫助?"},{"start":566.42,"end":587.612,"text":"對我們實戰能力的提升有幫助對我們的訓練現代化有幫助本席是樂見那我也尊重該保密的就保密但是這樣子的合作本身訊號就是一種嚇阻力量訊號什麼時候該釋出請國防部跟我們的合作方可以審慎思考我現在再多問一個攸關情勢式的"},{"start":589.501,"end":613.026,"text":"連續半年了 中共高層在清洗英文我看各大報 包含軍事媒體都用Purge這個字清洗共軍的高階將領他的中央軍事委員會 七個剩兩個一個是習近平 一個是管紀律的其他中部不見了 張惡霞也不見了然後呢 中將等級的 少將等級的被清洗的將領快要可以組一個連了"},{"start":614.568,"end":627.575,"text":"那這半年就情勢是掌握的情資中共高層清洗共軍將領的情況數量你們的得到情資跟狀況是什麼"},{"start":630.368,"end":650.67,"text":"郭委員報告第一個我們認為這個數字應該還有持續增加的空間我剛才講的數字還會持續增加一個連以上那至於是多少這個恐怕要中共他自己來回答他回答都騙人的我也不相信你回答我比較相信那第二個要跟您報告的是說勤之士的責任是我們根據我們現在所看到的做出"},{"start":652.271,"end":667.819,"text":"預警還有研判跟長官報告我就抓緊這個時間啦所以量比我們想像的還要更多還在持續增加當中那我就要請問你這對共軍解放軍威脅特別是威脅台灣的部分戰力跟指揮鏈有沒有影響"},{"start":669.087,"end":696.523,"text":"我想我們要料敵從寬我覺得秦司司就是根據他的研判來跟我們報告很多事情就是一種判斷不過以料敵從寬來講我看到風險的評估有兩面性有的認為說這個延後了他們認為setback那有的認為說這容易盲動蠢動因為只重視中共軍現在只重視政治的效忠程度不重視專業程度秦司司評估你們風險是往上走還是往下走"},{"start":698.214,"end":705.757,"text":"這個兩面都有啦,我的意思是說,剛剛委員提到有可能盲動,那有可能"},{"start":708.749,"end":726.861,"text":"因為你們的評估會演出你們的因應我們看的,其實要看的是現在以及未來可能看得到的這些預警、徵喉所呈現對我們對它未來行動的一個判斷那這個判斷當然包括政治面、非軍事面、軍事面的部分這樣子"},{"start":727.748,"end":743.411,"text":"好我最後丟一個題目因為我一直在關心最小域值的更新我們邊線比當然是一個問題那邊線比這個你們現在不用回答因為時間關係我丟題目我希望盡快看到結果到底是哪一支部隊什麼單位邊線比偏低"},{"start":744.552,"end":764.686,"text":"什麼樣的層級軍事官兵什麼樣的層級什麼樣的專長邊線比偏低我們要能夠分細分之後根據這樣的邊線比偏低的具體的明細的現象我們才能夠知道投入什麼樣的資源增加什麼樣的加擠留下我們必要要留的人那"},{"start":766.189,"end":782.528,"text":"大概去年我去年底開始談到這個這個叫threshold最低域值美軍有這個數據那我們也一段時間研究這個數據什麼時候可以提供出來我希望將來該機密就機密我們在國防委會看到的邊線比不是一個overall的平均數因為那沒有意義啦"},{"start":784.13,"end":798.439,"text":"跟委員報告,我想我們已經參考了各國戰力延續跟平面方式,用人力素質、後勤資源跟訓練程度三大面向,然後再根據部隊的組成要素,還有軍種的任務,還有武器裝備特性,我們已經進行多次研討。"},{"start":800.241,"end":820.277,"text":"已經有相關的這些 什麼時候可以提出來但這個內容以及相關的包括這些要提升戰力這個部分也是我這邊很重視但是我想這些部分沒有辦法公開我贊成 最低域值"},{"start":821.498,"end":846.864,"text":"絕對是機密但是你們有或者說你們適合的方式讓我們委員會可以監督的到我們才知道原來你現在調高這個加級是有意義的那你認為這個應該保密本席尊重因為基於國家利益本來軍事機密應該保密但是這個進度過程要讓我們知道細節內容也許我可以尊重因為你這最低域值算出來之後除了人員的配置以外也牽涉到你要採購什麼樣的裝備"},{"start":848.764,"end":867.335,"text":"這個裝備以前要用十個人我現在就要考慮到買用三個人的因為這個地方用的人變少或者哪些人力要釋放出來轉到無人機相關的單位所以如果有已經有一個結果出來請用妥適的方式讓我們委員會知道這樣好嗎我們再找時間跟委員做一個說明好 謝謝部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:17:30.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:17:31.832000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:17:31.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:17:38.481000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:17:38.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:17:39.963000+08:00","text":"情次室也上來好了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:17:40.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:17:42.635000+08:00","text":"是，王委員好。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:17:42.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:17:42.895000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:17:46.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:07.326000+08:00","text":"7月6日中國解放軍和俄羅斯進行聯合軍演，用核子動力潛艦朝太平洋發射了一枚潛射型的洲際彈道導彈，當然，中國的文宣戰、心理戰、認知戰把它描述成「飛越」，還有動畫喔！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:07.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:15.868000+08:00","text":"雖然那個動畫拍得很假，但是它有一個動畫，飛越日本上空，然後好像快要接近美國本土，但事實上不是這樣子啦！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:16.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:24.729000+08:00","text":"我要先請教的就是，就目前國防部掌握的狀況，這個載臺是什麼？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:24.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:26.289000+08:00","text":"發射的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:26.289000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:28.090000+08:00","text":"路徑是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:28.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:36.654000+08:00","text":"他們發射這一枚潛射型洲際彈道導彈的戰略目的是什麼？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:36.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:36.854000+08:00","text":"委員好，情次室室長……","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:37.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:37.994000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:39.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:55.152000+08:00","text":"我回應剛剛委員所關切的問題，第一個，發射的載臺和位置有很多公情已經先同步公布出來了，它大概就是往東南邊，應該是從海面發射……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:55.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:18:57.993000+08:00","text":"它不是潛射，是從海面上發射的？對。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:18:58.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:12.962000+08:00","text":"應該是說怎麼樣的發射，或者是什麼樣的彈種，早上部長在回答媒體的時候也做了具體的說明，我們這邊所掌握到的應該是巨浪2型，至於是什麼樣的方式……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:13.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:15.685000+08:00","text":"巨浪2型大概就6,000公里上下嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:15.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:16.025000+08:00","text":"大概是7,000。OK。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:18.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:22.332000+08:00","text":"至於是什麼樣的管道、途徑，就要跟委員說抱歉了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:22.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:24.054000+08:00","text":"你是說情資掌握、得到的途徑？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:24.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:25.054000+08:00","text":"對，這個部分就……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:24.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:28.458000+08:00","text":"你也可以說是你們自己掌握的，但這應該是交換情報啦！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:28.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:30.761000+08:00","text":"因為它飛越的距離相當遠。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:30.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:34.065000+08:00","text":"那它是用哪一型的核子動力潛艦發射的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:35.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:39.683000+08:00","text":"這個應該是澳洲的外交部有對外說明，說他們……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:39.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:40.784000+08:00","text":"所以你們是看報紙知道的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:41.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:41.945000+08:00","text":"不是吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:42.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:43.947000+08:00","text":"這恐怕我們也沒辦法跟您具體說明是怎麼來的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:44.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:46.628000+08:00","text":"因為國安會秘書長直接po在X上面了啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:48.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:50.865000+08:00","text":"第一個，這應該是從情報交換系統得知的啦！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:51.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:54.287000+08:00","text":"是，我們有多元的情資交換來源。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:55.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:57.569000+08:00","text":"我們對這個載臺，然後還有這些……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:57.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:19:58.510000+08:00","text":"所以部長，我要問的……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:19:59.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:00.131000+08:00","text":"我們都有掌握啦！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:00.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:00.811000+08:00","text":"我想是這樣。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:01.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:10.776000+08:00","text":"公開資訊我再問並沒有意思，我要問的其實是這個，就是所謂的多元情資交換是偶發性的、一次性的或定期性的？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:11.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:27.602000+08:00","text":"也就是說，我們是不是在一個情資交換的network裡面，會固定就我們相關的重要情資做即時性的交換，或者是偶一為之，有一方要釋放特定的訊息，透過我們當做訊息載臺，把它釋放出來？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:27.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:28.303000+08:00","text":"這兩個意義不一樣啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:28.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:33.698000+08:00","text":"我們現在的情資交換是常態性的嗎？是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:34.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:36.779000+08:00","text":"OK，那細節我就不問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:36.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:20:50.502000+08:00","text":"現在掌握的是巨浪2型，當然，中國習慣性吹牛，它講飛越日本上空，看起來如果在我們的東南方，它最多是飛越菲律賓上空，不會是日本上空。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:20:52.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:21:02.385000+08:00","text":"中國在7月6日發射這一枚洲際彈道導彈的目的是什麼？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:21:08.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:21:33.883000+08:00","text":"各國對它這樣試射彈道飛彈都已經有所譴責，我們並不想去評論中國的目的，但我想要說明的是，他們確實已經對區域和平穩定造成威脅，也……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:21:33.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:21:48.588000+08:00","text":"紐、澳、北約、日本、美國都譴責他們破壞區域的和平穩定，北約秘書長呂特也講了一些話，說：不要再天真看待中國的威脅。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:21:48.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:22:16.722000+08:00","text":"但是有一方（哪一國我就不說了）提到中國展現他的核能力已經從陸地到海上，他這個核能力搭配之前的川習會以及對臺的軍售，他等於透過這個動作在喊價，希望對臺美之間的安全合作做一些喊價的動作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:22:17.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:22:17.562000+08:00","text":"部長，你怎麼看？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:22:19.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:22:43.509000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們還是要從如何維持印太區域和平穩定這個著眼，那麼很明顯的，美國的印太戰略就是集體嚇阻，集體嚇阻的這個傾向已經越來越明確，所以不管是日本、澳洲、菲律賓，甚至韓國，我想都在第一島鏈集體嚇阻的範圍之內……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:22:46.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:22:48.052000+08:00","text":"就部長剛才說的，接下來我就把我另外一個題目帶進來。","quality":0.522},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:22:48.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:22:59.877000+08:00","text":"上一次，我問了一個環太平洋，臺灣沒有參與，但是你特別在回答的時候，請我們國人要注意到兩個演習，一個是堅毅之龍，一個是勇敢之盾。是。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:23:01.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:23:46.221000+08:00","text":"後來美國陸軍印太平洋司令部的司令克拉克，他公開指出多年來，這些大大小小的演習，叫做「穿珍珠」，也就是它是串起來的，他把它取一個名字叫做Operation Pathways，我們知道Operation Pathways這個棧道任務或棧道行動是二戰的時候，等於美軍要從島鏈占領打到日本本土的一個代號名稱，他現在把它取做這個名稱，而克拉克講得很明白，穿珍珠起來的目的就是嚇阻中國對臺灣的武力威脅。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:23:46.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:23:52.908000+08:00","text":"所以你提到的那兩個演習是不是也是這一個棧道行動、棧道任務裡面的兩項之一？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:23:53.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:24:16.256000+08:00","text":"我想美國在印太區域，他為了要維持印太區域和平穩定，也朝向集體嚇阻的角度出發，他要跟各相關國家進行聯合演訓，我想其目的當然就相當的清楚，所以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:24:17.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:24:18.118000+08:00","text":"我們有在這些聯合演訓裡面嗎？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:24:18.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:24:34.089000+08:00","text":"如果棧道行動目的是為了維繫臺海和平穩定，嚇阻中國對臺武力威脅，那麼臺灣是主角之一嘛，所以在這些穿珍珠的一串珍珠裡面，臺灣有沒有在這串珍珠裡面？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:24:35.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:24:40.153000+08:00","text":"我們的演習、我們的訓練，我們的bilateral exercise。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:24:43.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:25:07.023000+08:00","text":"我想我沒有辦法在這邊透露過多的細節，我是認為我們站在第一島鏈的前緣，就這整個第一島鏈的位置，我們也在樞紐的地位，所以我想臺灣在集體嚇阻的這個戰略之下，我們當然扮演的重要角色。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:25:07.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:25:13.667000+08:00","text":"邏輯上，跟我們的安全直接相關，我們不太可能不在這一串珍珠裡面嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:25:16.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:25:25.856000+08:00","text":"戰爭需要想定，想定需要演練、演練再修訂，修正之後再演練，所以這一個部分，我尊重部長不便透露太多細節。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:25:25.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:25:27.017000+08:00","text":"我跳到我最後一題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:25:28.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:25:46.291000+08:00","text":"最近有一個媒體報導，他講的是美軍，美軍年輕男女軍人密集的進出龍潭特戰指揮部等等，有或沒有，其實我們光搭高鐵，遇到美語老師頻率之高，我們大概有感受。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:25:46.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:26:18.700000+08:00","text":"我是要請教，這些訊息的揭露，能跟不能揭露，本身就有意義，以往協訓、雙方演訓，或者在澎湖或者在屏東，這些訊息通常我們是不對外揭露的，那麼目前包含去年的漢光，印太司令部J5的將軍名牌，一直到現在的這些，請問一下，這一些訊息的揭露是在臺美默契下的揭露，或者是不經意被發現？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:26:20.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:26:34.132000+08:00","text":"我們都沒有特意主動揭露，我想依照臺美相關的默契，我們都還是維持低調跟不公開的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:26:34.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:26:37.755000+08:00","text":"這些軍人是現役或者退役的contract？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:26:38.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:26:41.804000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想我沒有辦法做過多的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:26:42.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:26:43.245000+08:00","text":"好，這個我尊重。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:26:45.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:27:13.349000+08:00","text":"員額，大概你也不便講，因為美國的NDA預算書裡面，看到員額是寫400，看起來量，我們不曉得，但是臺美的合作對我們的安全有幫助，對我們實戰能力的提升有幫助，對我們的訓練現代化有幫助，本席是樂見，我也尊重，該保密的就保密，但是這樣子的合作，本身訊號就是一種嚇阻力量，訊號什麼時候該釋出，請國防部跟我們的合作方可以審慎思考。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:27:13.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:27:43.006000+08:00","text":"我現在再多問一個攸關情次室的問題，連續半年了，中共高層在「清洗」，我看各大報包含軍事媒體，英文都用purge這個字，「清洗」共軍的高階將領，他的中央軍事委員會七個剩兩個，一個是習近平，一個是管紀律的，其他通通都不見了，張又俠不見了，然後中將等級的、少將等級的，被清洗的將領快要可以組一個連了。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:27:45.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:27:57.575000+08:00","text":"這半年就情次室掌握的情資，中共高層清洗共軍將領的情況、數量，你們得到的情資跟狀況是什麼？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:00.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:05.434000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第一個，我們認為這個數字應該還有持續增加的空間。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:05.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:06.755000+08:00","text":"我剛才講的數字還會持續增加？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:06.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:07.396000+08:00","text":"一個連以上了。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:07.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:10.619000+08:00","text":"至於是多少，這個恐怕要中共他自己來回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:11.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:13.662000+08:00","text":"他回答都騙人的，我也不相信，你回答的，我比較相信。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:14.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:24.512000+08:00","text":"第二個要跟您報告的是，情次室的責任是我們根據我們現在所看到的做出預警還有研判，跟長官報告。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:25.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:37.819000+08:00","text":"好，我就抓緊這個時間，所以量比我們想像的還要更多，還在持續增加當中，我就要請問你，這對共軍解放軍威脅，特別是威脅臺灣的部分，戰力跟指揮鏈有沒有影響？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:39.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:28:48.773000+08:00","text":"我想我們要料敵從寬，我覺得情次室就是根據他的研判來跟我們報告，很多事情就是一種判斷。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:28:48.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:03.461000+08:00","text":"好，我再追問一個問題，如果以料敵從寬來講，我看到風險的評估有兩面性，有的認為延後了，他們認為setback，有的認為這容易盲動、蠢動，因為共軍現在只重視政治的效忠程度，不重視專業程度。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:04.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:06.503000+08:00","text":"情次室的評估，風險是往上走還是往下走？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:08.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:08.734000+08:00","text":"這個兩面都有啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:08.734000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:11.235000+08:00","text":"兩面都有，這等於零。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:11.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:15.737000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，剛剛委員也提到有可能盲動，也有可能……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:18.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:22.051000+08:00","text":"因為你們的評估會衍生出你們的因應嘛！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:23.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:36.841000+08:00","text":"情次室要看的是，現在以及未來可能看得到的這些預警、徵候所呈現我們對他未來行動的一個判斷，這個判斷當然包括政治面、非軍事面、軍事面的部分，這樣子。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:37.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:49.465000+08:00","text":"好，我最後丟一個題目，因為我一直在關心最小閾值的更新，我們的編現比當然是一個問題，你們現在不用回答，因為時間關係，我丟題目，我希望儘快看到結果。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:50.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:29:53.391000+08:00","text":"到底是哪一支部隊、什麼單位編現比偏低？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:29:56.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:30:01.117000+08:00","text":"軍、士、官、兵，什麼樣的層級、什麼樣的專長編現比偏低？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:30:01.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:30:13.625000+08:00","text":"我們要能夠細分之後，根據這樣的編現比偏低的、具體的、明細的現象，我們才能夠知道投入什麼樣的資源，增加什麼樣的加給，留下我們必要要留的人。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:30:16.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:30:26.681000+08:00","text":"大概我去年底開始談到threshold最低閾值，美軍有這個數據，我們也有一段時間研究了，這個數據什麼時候可以提供出來？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:30:27.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:30:32.508000+08:00","text":"將來該機密就機密，但是我希望我們在國防委員會看到的編現比不是一個overall的平均數，因為那沒有意義啦。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:30:34.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:30:51.522000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，我想我們已經參考了各國戰力研析跟評鑑方式，用人力數值、後勤資源跟訓練程度三大面向，再根據部隊的組成要素，還有軍種的任務、武器裝備特性，我們已經進行多次研討，所以已經有相關的這些戰力指標跟……","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:30:52.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:30:55.585000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以提出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:30:55.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:31:07.655000+08:00","text":"但是這個內容以及相關的，包括要提升戰力，這個部分也是我這邊很重視，所以我們已經經過多次研討，但是我想這些部分沒有辦法公開陳述。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:31:07.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:31:31.382000+08:00","text":"不，我贊成，最低閾值絕對是機密，但是你們有或者你們適合的方式讓我們委員會可以監督得到，我們才知道原來你現在調高這個加給是有意義的，你認為這應該保密，本席尊重，因為基於國家利益，本來軍事機密應該保密，但是這個進度、過程要讓我們知道，細節內容我可以尊重啦！","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:31:32.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:31:54.593000+08:00","text":"因為你這最低閾值算出來之後，除了人員的配置以外，也牽涉到你要採購什麼樣的裝備，這個裝備以前要用十個人，現在就要考慮到買用三個人的，因為這個地方用的人變少，或者哪些人力要釋放出來，轉到無人機相關的單位，所以如果已經有一個結果出來，請用妥適的方式讓我們委員會知道，這樣好嗎？","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:31:54.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:31:56.774000+08:00","text":"我們再找時間跟委員做一個說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-07-08T10:31:57.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:31:57.335000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:31:57.835000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:32:02.120714+08:00","text":"謝謝，接下來請王安祥委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}