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就是公投合併在一張選票上面"},{"start":184.508,"end":201.205,"text":"當然有提出委員有正面的意見那中選會有一些認為你們認為這個這個必大於利的一個情況那我想今天的一個重點在於什麼公投的意義是什麼公投是直接民主我們立法院是大義民主"},{"start":201.525,"end":229.672,"text":"那為什麼所有的國家沒有辦法實行直接的民主是因為這個成本過於巨大也沒有辦法在技術上也沒有辦法去執行所以說我們大家都是用代議民主的方式但是一個民主的國家他應該是如果說能夠達到直接民主的話應該會比代議民主更符合民主的一個精神這樣講應該沒錯嘛但公投法它就是一個直接民主的表現跟做法那因為我們現在要想的事情是"},{"start":230.712,"end":249.131,"text":"我們現在眾選會認為說如果說有太多公投案會影響到選務的進行的時候我當然認同主委的說法但是如果因為選務上面的困難造成了直接民主沒有辦法去實行的話我認為這是不是in a face我們應該要想的事情是"},{"start":250.276,"end":269.203,"text":"我們要怎麼去推動直接民主它在現有的制度或者是科技進步的情況下讓它更能夠去達成而不是因為我們有可能想到的困難你說年底可能時間太近了沒有辦法執行等等的我想我這些都是充分尊重中選會第一線執行的人"},{"start":270.243,"end":293.935,"text":"的業務的一個的說明但是我們今天要想的是未來怎麼樣透過公投法去讓我們的直接民主更能夠執行那合併成一張選票是有一些委員他想到的想法他或許不是最好的但是我們當然可以提出批評但是我覺得我們的目標應該是一樣怎麼去促成未來直接民主是更容易達成的這件事情不曉得中選會對這樣子的說法您的看法"},{"start":294.675,"end":313.265,"text":"對我對廖委員這樣的一個想法我相當的敬佩那我直接了當的講一點就是說如果我們要有更多的直接民主我們應該是學瑞士瑞士呢他一年四季都可以公投"},{"start":315.066,"end":330.995,"text":"沒有限制特定的時間每一次投票也可以有三四個公投案那就可以讓我們台灣這個更朝氣蓬勃讓民意能夠透過公投能夠表現出來主委認同的話"},{"start":333.796,"end":349.934,"text":"應該是說我們也不一定是單純就這個法條的內容去提出這個贊成或反對優劣而是朝著這樣的目標一起讓台灣的公投法的選制讓它更加的完善我想這就是共同的目標大家一起去想我回頭再強調一點"},{"start":353.894,"end":369.589,"text":"要有人很關心直接民主但是我們必須很務實的去看待這件事情當公投綁大選的時候我們不會希望只有公投而忘掉選舉因為選舉是台灣民主的核心"},{"start":371.485,"end":389.051,"text":"選舉如果被破壞了或者選舉遭遇很大的災難那是台灣的災難所以我們要雙向思考不能只考慮公投如果公投我百分之百贊成怎麼樣讓公投能夠更普遍能夠更精神"},{"start":391.833,"end":406.226,"text":"選舉 一般的選舉讓他們沒辦法張選直接民主我講這是現在遇到的困難對 也不見得要跟選舉綁在一起好 那以上如果說我們有共同的方向希望未來能夠大家一起來努力那因為我請教這個AI身為的問題啦你們剛剛報告有說中選會有成立"},{"start":412.932,"end":427.168,"text":"這個檢舉嘛這小組我們大概一個候選人提出檢舉我們大概需要多少時間去處理或者說我們處理之後會給怎樣子的一個答覆會有可能有哪幾種類別的答覆"},{"start":428.922,"end":443.699,"text":"所以我們現在就是先成立這樣的一個內部的機制來因應未來可能的這些身為影音的對險情小組成立了嗎?或者說我們的技術上面都已經到位了嗎?"},{"start":444.059,"end":465.528,"text":"技術面我們不敢講但是我們至少我們在任務編組上面我們已經有這樣的一個機制在那裡來協助處理配合檢調我想這次是我們中選會是很大的挑戰這個AI這兩三年進步了成這樣子了可能很多現在都已經在準備當中了那未來如果說我們中選會真是要這個問題我也沒有辦法期待說你們能夠做到100分因為這個已經是科技進步所帶來的選舉的一些"},{"start":471.87,"end":499.237,"text":"是 廖委員這其他事情了但是現在我們有正式的問題提出這個專門的做法了那就請你們好好加油任務在這邊一句話就好任務在這邊講一句話我們要很謙卑的來講這一句話光憑中選會沒辦法單獨去處理這個AI這個身為影音的問題這需要整個國家機器的力量好 謝謝那我再請這個法務部好不好"},{"start":500.077,"end":503.824,"text":"法務部跟警政署長兩位 主委您先休息這個您邊走邊講 首先法務部"},{"start":510.422,"end":528.306,"text":"這個之前有台灣發生過兩個可能有政治人物指控是假訊息包括我們的前鄭文燦副院長的影片或者是說這個之前羅委員的一些錄音檔他們都有提出指控是假訊息嘛對不對那這個後來"},{"start":532.332,"end":547.894,"text":"我們講最近的就是羅委員的這一件案子他後來跟法務部檢舉嘛對不對那其實選舉最重要的一件事情是什麼是時效性你不能說我今天檢舉了然後你在選舉後你才跟我說它是真偽的所以時效性這件事情對每個候選人跟選舉公平是非常重要的"},{"start":548.831,"end":575.83,"text":"那從當初羅委員的錄音的檢舉判事到現在也超過三年的時間了我想我們法務部已經這個相關的單位已經有調查結果出來了嗎你不能告訴我們每一位候選人這個你要能夠告訴我們每個候選人包括可能警政署都要告訴大家說我們能夠在多少的時間內告訴民眾告訴候選人這個是真的還是假的還是有一個結論"},{"start":576.971,"end":595.855,"text":"好不好,這是先請法務部先說明一下現在在鑑定那個申委的部分的軟體,包括我們調查局還有刑事局他們各自會有兩個軟體,要確定是有了,然後兩個機關都double check OK的話那就會有一個確認的結果所以需要多久的時間"},{"start":599.157,"end":625.296,"text":"委員長 那目前就是這個身為影音情緒在做鑑識一個軟體的話四個小時就可以出來四個小時那所以說之前羅委員的檢舉案件到現在法務部還沒有跟因為他具名檢舉了嘛所以說法務部還沒有跟社會大眾說真假是什麼原因如果他是假的你應該要幫羅委員說這是假的才能夠還他清白啊是這樣吧"},{"start":626.178,"end":651.703,"text":"因為這個是當時檢舉的時候是他是有關於是性影像那我們根據那個性侵害防治法裡面這個是當事人的隱私啊所以所以以後我做AI身為我只要做性影像的我去跟你檢舉就不會有對大陸公告知了嗎當然那個性侵害防治法有規定是除非當事人同意那現在大家聽到你這樣子講說的這個網軍就全部開始現在開始在做啦"},{"start":653.023,"end":670.288,"text":"檢舉不會這樣不對吧那當然就是說如果說他是假的啦就是說那當然會讓當事人知道然後如果當事人願意願意就是讓他公開因為他那個性侵犯法有規定除非當事人同意啊所以有關性的部分對他只有檢舉有關性的部分那錄音檔的部分呢也有檢舉嗎"},{"start":673.265,"end":697.878,"text":"有那這個有關性嗎?有因為有關性?兩個都有關性?有所以現在法務部的立場是只要有關性的就不會跟社會大眾說是真的還假的?不會主動好那我覺得會是未來選務的一個很大的一個問題未來可能會出現那大家應該要及早做好準備這樣子的一個回覆我想應該不是大家所能夠接受的只是說時間到了沒有辦法再跟你做追問以上謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:41:20.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:41:28.282000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩邀請游主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:41:28.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:41:28.482000+08:00","text":"召委，你好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:41:29.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:41:29.723000+08:00","text":"主委，你好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:41:30.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:41:50.203000+08:00","text":"你在就任的時候有做過與公投相關的發言，說立法院提出的公投案通過是原則、不通過是例外，目前立法院已經有一些在二讀的案子，剛剛張智倫委員的PowerPoint上面有顯示這六件，你應該都非常清楚，針對這六件，你認為會是原則還是例外？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:41:54.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:17.574000+08:00","text":"以我個人或中選會來講，我們在公投案確立之前都沒有針對個案去表達任何的評論，我覺得這樣做是必要的，因為如果我們去發表什麼議論，其實也會引來更多的批評。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:18.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:28.301000+08:00","text":"所以如果立法院就是照這六案，文字都沒有修改，你也沒有辦法在這邊保證年底大家一定投得到，是這樣的意思嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:28.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:29.442000+08:00","text":"還是要經過你們委員會的審查，是嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:30.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:38.168000+08:00","text":"廖委員，中選會是合議制，特別是重大的事項必須開委員會議決定。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:38.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:41.751000+08:00","text":"好，我確認一下，假設立法院通過了，那中選會會在多久的時間以內給出答復？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:44.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:47.477000+08:00","text":"看中選會什麼時候通過，然後我們就……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:47.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:48.718000+08:00","text":"大概多久以內會開會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:49.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:54.301000+08:00","text":"我們除了每個月的委員會之外，我們還可以召開臨時會議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:54.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:54.501000+08:00","text":"可以嘛？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:55.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:58.344000+08:00","text":"在立法院通過之後，就再麻煩主委這邊儘速處理。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:42:59.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:42:59.645000+08:00","text":"對，我們可以開臨時會議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:43:00.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:43:06.349000+08:00","text":"另外，請教一下，關於您所講的原則跟例外，對你個人來說，它的界線是什麼？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:43:08.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:43:29.671000+08:00","text":"我當時講那個話的意思就是我們必須尊重立法院所推出的公投案，因為那代表立法院多數的意見，但是因為那樣，所以立法院推出的公投案基本上不應該有任何問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:43:29.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:43:29.711000+08:00","text":"什麼問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:43:32.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:43:36.264000+08:00","text":"就是說不應該有不通過的問題。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:43:36.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:43:58.410000+08:00","text":"如果有不通過的問題，那就很可能涉及到公投法第二條第二項第三款，立法院所推出的公投是不是符合重大政策的創制或複決，就這一點來講，中選會的委員會很認真地去斟酌。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:43:58.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:02.114000+08:00","text":"所以就是創制跟複決這兩件事情？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:02.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:04.016000+08:00","text":"重大政策的創制或複決。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:04.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:06.058000+08:00","text":"那是我們未來審查的重點。是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:06.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:10.143000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，至少讓我們知道有一個標準在這邊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:10.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:23.197000+08:00","text":"另外，請教一下，公投合併在一張選票上面，當然提出的委員有正面的意見，那中選會認為這個有弊大於利的情況。嗯。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:23.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:34.346000+08:00","text":"我想今天的重點在於公投的意義是什麼，公投是直接民主，我們立法院是代議民主，為什麼所有的國家沒有辦法施行直接的民主？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:34.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:42.448000+08:00","text":"就是因為成本過於巨大，在技術上也沒有辦法去執行，所以我們大家都是用代議民主的方式。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:42.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:44:51.130000+08:00","text":"但是在一個民主的國家，如果能夠達到直接民主的話，應該會比代議民主更符合民主的精神，這樣講應該沒錯嘛？是。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:44:52.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:45:16.268000+08:00","text":"公投法就是直接民主的表現跟做法，因此我們現在要想一件事情，中選會認為如果有太多公投案會影響到選務的進行，我當然認同主委的說法，但是如果因為選務上面的困難而造成了直接民主沒有辦法實行的話，我認為這樣是不是因噎廢食？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:45:17.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:45:33.181000+08:00","text":"我們應該要想的事情是要怎麼去推動直接民主，在現有的制度或者是科技進步的情況下，讓它更能夠被達成，而不是因為我們有可能遇到困難所以就不做。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:45:33.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:45:47.647000+08:00","text":"你說距離年底可能時間太近了所以沒有辦法執行等等，我想我都是充分尊重中選會第一線執行業務的說明，但是我們現在要想的是未來怎麼樣透過公投法去讓我們的直接民主更能夠執行。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:45:48.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:46:03.915000+08:00","text":"合併成一張選票是一些委員所提出的想法，或許不是最好的，我們當然可以提出批評，但是我覺得我們的目標應該是一樣的，就是怎麼去促成未來直接民主是更容易達成的這件事情，對於這樣子的說法，您的看法是什麼？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:46:04.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:46:18.102000+08:00","text":"我對廖委員這樣的想法相當敬佩，那我直接了當的講一點，如果我們要有更多的直接民主，我們應該是學瑞士。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:46:19.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:46:40.594000+08:00","text":"瑞士一年四季都可以公投，並沒有限制特定的時間，每一次投票也可以有三、四個公投案，就可以讓我們臺灣更朝氣蓬勃，讓民意能夠透過公投表現出來。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:46:40.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:46:59.033000+08:00","text":"我今天只是想提醒主委，如果主委認同的話，我們也不一定單純就這個法條的內容去表示贊成、反對或優劣，而是朝著這樣子的目標一起讓臺灣公投法的選制更加的完善，我想這就是共同的目標，大家一起去想如何達成。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:46:59.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:47:26.587000+08:00","text":"我回頭再強調一點，廖委員很關心直接民主，但是我們必須很務實的去看待這件事情，當公投綁大選的時候，我們不會希望只有公投而忘掉選舉，因為選舉是臺灣民主的核心，選舉如果被破壞了或者選舉遭遇很大的災難，那是臺灣的災難。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:47:26.587000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T09:47:27.587000+08:00","text":"對，我都認同增加選務的複雜性。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:47:26.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:47:38.471000+08:00","text":"所以我們要雙向思考，不能只考慮公投，我百分之百贊成讓公投能夠更普遍、能夠更興盛……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:47:41.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:47:47.398000+08:00","text":"不要因為可能會影響到一般的選舉而讓它沒辦法彰顯直接民主，我想這是現在遇到的困難。","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:47:47.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:47:48.859000+08:00","text":"也不見得要跟選舉綁在一起。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:47:50.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:47:54.504000+08:00","text":"主委，如果我們有共同的方向，希望未來大家能夠一起來努力。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:47:54.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:48:11.662000+08:00","text":"另外，我要請教AI深偽的問題，你們剛剛在報告裡面說中選會有成立一個小組，如果一個候選人提出檢舉，這個小組大概需要多少時間去處理？","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:48:12.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:48:17.128000+08:00","text":"在處理之後會給什麼樣的答復，可能有哪幾種類別的答復？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:48:19.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:48:27.231000+08:00","text":"我們現在就是先成立這樣一個內部的機制，來因應未來這些深偽影音對選情可能造成的衝擊。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:48:27.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:48:31.116000+08:00","text":"這個小組成立了嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:48:31.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:48:33.699000+08:00","text":"在技術上面都已經到位了嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:48:34.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:48:43.043000+08:00","text":"技術面我們不敢講，但是我們至少在任務編組上面已經有這樣的一個機制在那裡可以協助處理，配合檢調……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:48:43.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:49:09.392000+08:00","text":"我想這對中選會是一個很大的挑戰，因為AI這兩三年進步成這樣子，可能很多現在都已經在準備當中了，未來中選會要正視這個問題，我也沒有辦法期待你們能夠做到100分，因為這是科技進步對選舉所帶來的一些影響，但是既然我們有正視這個問題並提出專門的做法了，那就請你們好好加油。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T09:49:11.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:49:25.736000+08:00","text":"容我在這邊講一句話就好了，我們要很謙卑的來講這一句話，光憑中選會沒辦法單獨去處理AI深偽影音的問題，這需要整個國家機器的力量。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:49:26.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:49:27.376000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:49:27.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:49:33.544000+08:00","text":"那我再請法務部跟警政署長，主委請先休息。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:49:33.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:49:58.186000+08:00","text":"首先請問法務部，之前臺灣發生過兩件政治人物指控是假訊息的案子，包括鄭文燦前副院長的影片，還有之前羅委員的一些錄音檔，他們都有提出指控說這是假訊息，對不對？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:02.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:50:06.458000+08:00","text":"最近的就是羅委員的這件案子，他後來有跟法務部檢舉，對不對？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:06.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:50:08.761000+08:00","text":"其實選舉最重要的一件事情是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:08.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:50:17.874000+08:00","text":"就是時效性，不能說我今天提出檢舉，然後你在選舉後才跟我說它的真偽，時效性這件事情對每個候選人跟選舉公平是非常重要的。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:20.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:50:32.501000+08:00","text":"從當初羅委員提出檢舉後做錄音的判識到現在也超過三年的時間了，法務部相關單位已經有調查結果了嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:32.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:50:47.191000+08:00","text":"包括警政署在內，你們要能夠告訴我們，要告訴大家可以在多久的時間內讓民眾、候選人知道這個是真的還是假的，還是要有一個結論，好不好？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:47.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:50:49.152000+08:00","text":"先請法務部說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"余主任秘書麗貞","start":"2026-07-16T09:50:50.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:04.535000+08:00","text":"現在在鑑定深偽部分的軟體，包括我們調查局還有刑事局，各自會有兩個軟體，確定是有，然後兩個機關double check都OK的話，就會有一個確認的結果。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:05.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:05.855000+08:00","text":"所以需要多久的時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:09.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:09.878000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:10.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:16.622000+08:00","text":"目前刑事局在做深偽影音的鑑識，一個軟體四個小時就可以出來。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:19.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:28.731000+08:00","text":"因為之前羅委員的檢舉案件是具名檢舉，但現在法務部還沒有跟社會大眾說明真假是什麼原因？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:30.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:35.276000+08:00","text":"如果它是假的，你們應該要幫羅委員說這是假的，才能夠還他清白，是這樣吧？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"余主任秘書麗貞","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:36.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:44.360000+08:00","text":"因為當時檢舉的時候是有關於性影像，根據性侵害犯罪防治法，這個是當事人的隱私……","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:46.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:52.641000+08:00","text":"所以以後AI深偽只要是做性影像的，我跟你們檢舉就不會對大眾告知了嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"余主任秘書麗貞","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:53.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:51:55.882000+08:00","text":"性侵害犯罪防治法有規定，除非當事人同意。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:51:56.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:04.383000+08:00","text":"現在大家聽到你這樣子講，所有的網軍全部開始在做了，這樣不對吧？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"余主任秘書麗貞","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:05.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:15.106000+08:00","text":"如果它是假的，我們當然會讓當事人知道，如果當事人願意公開，因為性侵害犯罪防治法有規定，除非當事人同意。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:15.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:20.148000+08:00","text":"所以他只有檢舉有關性的部分，那錄音檔的部分呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:20.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:23.265000+08:00","text":"也有檢舉嗎？有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:23.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:24.966000+08:00","text":"這個有關性嗎？有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:25.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:32.170000+08:00","text":"也有關性，兩個都有關性，所以現在法務部的立場是只要有關性的，就不會跟社會大眾說是真的還假的。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"余主任秘書麗貞","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:32.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:33.030000+08:00","text":"非主動。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:33.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:47.878000+08:00","text":"我覺得這會是未來選務一個很大的問題，未來可能會出現，大家應該要及早做好準備，這樣子的回復我想應該不是大家所能夠接受的，只是我的時間到了，沒有辦法再跟你追問，以上，謝謝。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:48.378000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:50.378000+08:00","text":"謝謝廖先翔召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T09:52:50.678000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T09:52:53.249429+08:00","text":"下一位請張宏陸委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":419,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（9時41分）謝謝主席，麻煩邀請游主委。"],["游主任委員盈隆：召委，你好。"],["廖委員先翔：主委，你好。你在就任的時候有做過與公投相關的發言，說立法院提出的公投案通過是原則、不通過是例外，目前立法院已經有一些在二讀的案子，剛剛張智倫委員的PowerPoint上面有顯示這六件，你應該都非常清楚，針對這六件，你認為會是原則還是例外？"],["游主任委員盈隆：以我個人或中選會來講，我們在公投案確立之前都沒有針對個案去表達任何的評論，我覺得這樣做是必要的，因為如果我們去發表什麼議論，其實也會引來更多的批評。"],["廖委員先翔：所以如果立法院就是照這六案，文字都沒有修改，你也沒有辦法在這邊保證年底大家一定投得到，是這樣的意思嗎？還是要經過你們委員會的審查，是嗎？"],["游主任委員盈隆：廖委員，中選會是合議制，特別是重大的事項必須開委員會議決定。"],["廖委員先翔：好，我確認一下，假設立法院通過了，那中選會會在多久的時間以內給出答復？"],["游主任委員盈隆：看中選會什麼時候通過，然後我們就……"],["廖委員先翔：大概多久以內會開會？"],["游主任委員盈隆：我們除了每個月的委員會之外，我們還可以召開臨時會議。"],["廖委員先翔：可以嘛？"],["游主任委員盈隆：對。"],["廖委員先翔：在立法院通過之後，就再麻煩主委這邊儘速處理。"],["游主任委員盈隆：對，我們可以開臨時會議。"],["廖委員先翔：另外，請教一下，關於您所講的原則跟例外，對你個人來說，它的界線是什麼？"],["游主任委員盈隆：我當時講那個話的意思就是我們必須尊重立法院所推出的公投案，因為那代表立法院多數的意見，但是因為那樣，所以立法院推出的公投案基本上不應該有任何問題……"],["廖委員先翔：什麼問題？"],["游主任委員盈隆：就是說不應該有不通過的問題。"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["游主任委員盈隆：如果有不通過的問題，那就很可能涉及到公投法第二條第二項第三款，立法院所推出的公投是不是符合重大政策的創制或複決，就這一點來講，中選會的委員會很認真地去斟酌。"],["廖委員先翔：所以就是創制跟複決這兩件事情？"],["游主任委員盈隆：重大政策的創制或複決。"],["廖委員先翔：那是我們未來審查的重點。"],["游主任委員盈隆：是。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，至少讓我們知道有一個標準在這邊。另外，請教一下，公投合併在一張選票上面，當然提出的委員有正面的意見，那中選會認為這個有弊大於利的情況。"],["游主任委員盈隆：嗯。"],["廖委員先翔：我想今天的重點在於公投的意義是什麼，公投是直接民主，我們立法院是代議民主，為什麼所有的國家沒有辦法施行直接的民主？就是因為成本過於巨大，在技術上也沒有辦法去執行，所以我們大家都是用代議民主的方式。但是在一個民主的國家，如果能夠達到直接民主的話，應該會比代議民主更符合民主的精神，這樣講應該沒錯嘛？"],["游主任委員盈隆：是。"],["廖委員先翔：公投法就是直接民主的表現跟做法，因此我們現在要想一件事情，中選會認為如果有太多公投案會影響到選務的進行，我當然認同主委的說法，但是如果因為選務上面的困難而造成了直接民主沒有辦法實行的話，我認為這樣是不是因噎廢食？我們應該要想的事情是要怎麼去推動直接民主，在現有的制度或者是科技進步的情況下，讓它更能夠被達成，而不是因為我們有可能遇到困難所以就不做。你說距離年底可能時間太近了所以沒有辦法執行等等，我想我都是充分尊重中選會第一線執行業務的說明，但是我們現在要想的是未來怎麼樣透過公投法去讓我們的直接民主更能夠執行。合併成一張選票是一些委員所提出的想法，或許不是最好的，我們當然可以提出批評，但是我覺得我們的目標應該是一樣的，就是怎麼去促成未來直接民主是更容易達成的這件事情，對於這樣子的說法，您的看法是什麼？"],["游主任委員盈隆：我對廖委員這樣的想法相當敬佩，那我直接了當的講一點，如果我們要有更多的直接民主，我們應該是學瑞士。瑞士一年四季都可以公投，並沒有限制特定的時間，每一次投票也可以有三、四個公投案，就可以讓我們臺灣更朝氣蓬勃，讓民意能夠透過公投表現出來。"],["廖委員先翔：我今天只是想提醒主委，如果主委認同的話，我們也不一定單純就這個法條的內容去表示贊成、反對或優劣，而是朝著這樣子的目標一起讓臺灣公投法的選制更加的完善，我想這就是共同的目標，大家一起去想如何達成。"],["游主任委員盈隆：我回頭再強調一點，廖委員很關心直接民主，但是我們必須很務實的去看待這件事情，當公投綁大選的時候，我們不會希望只有公投而忘掉選舉，因為選舉是臺灣民主的核心，選舉如果被破壞了或者選舉遭遇很大的災難，那是臺灣的災難。"],["廖委員先翔：對，我都認同增加選務的複雜性。"],["游主任委員盈隆：所以我們要雙向思考，不能只考慮公投，我百分之百贊成讓公投能夠更普遍、能夠更興盛……"],["廖委員先翔：不要因為可能會影響到一般的選舉而讓它沒辦法彰顯直接民主，我想這是現在遇到的困難。"],["游主任委員盈隆：也不見得要跟選舉綁在一起。"],["廖委員先翔：主委，如果我們有共同的方向，希望未來大家能夠一起來努力。另外，我要請教AI深偽的問題，你們剛剛在報告裡面說中選會有成立一個小組，如果一個候選人提出檢舉，這個小組大概需要多少時間去處理？在處理之後會給什麼樣的答復，可能有哪幾種類別的答復？"],["游主任委員盈隆：我們現在就是先成立這樣一個內部的機制，來因應未來這些深偽影音對選情可能造成的衝擊。"],["廖委員先翔：這個小組成立了嗎？在技術上面都已經到位了嗎？"],["游主任委員盈隆：技術面我們不敢講，但是我們至少在任務編組上面已經有這樣的一個機制在那裡可以協助處理，配合檢調……"],["廖委員先翔：我想這對中選會是一個很大的挑戰，因為AI這兩三年進步成這樣子，可能很多現在都已經在準備當中了，未來中選會要正視這個問題，我也沒有辦法期待你們能夠做到100分，因為這是科技進步對選舉所帶來的一些影響，但是既然我們有正視這個問題並提出專門的做法了，那就請你們好好加油。"],["游主任委員盈隆：容我在這邊講一句話就好了，我們要很謙卑的來講這一句話，光憑中選會沒辦法單獨去處理AI深偽影音的問題，這需要整個國家機器的力量。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝。那我再請法務部跟警政署長，主委請先休息。首先請問法務部，之前臺灣發生過兩件政治人物指控是假訊息的案子，包括鄭文燦前副院長的影片，還有之前羅委員的一些錄音檔，他們都有提出指控說這是假訊息，對不對？最近的就是羅委員的這件案子，他後來有跟法務部檢舉，對不對？其實選舉最重要的一件事情是什麼？就是時效性，不能說我今天提出檢舉，然後你在選舉後才跟我說它的真偽，時效性這件事情對每個候選人跟選舉公平是非常重要的。從當初羅委員提出檢舉後做錄音的判識到現在也超過三年的時間了，法務部相關單位已經有調查結果了嗎？包括警政署在內，你們要能夠告訴我們，要告訴大家可以在多久的時間內讓民眾、候選人知道這個是真的還是假的，還是要有一個結論，好不好？先請法務部說明一下。"],["余主任秘書麗貞：現在在鑑定深偽部分的軟體，包括我們調查局還有刑事局，各自會有兩個軟體，確定是有，然後兩個機關double check都OK的話，就會有一個確認的結果。"],["廖委員先翔：所以需要多久的時間？"],["張署長榮興：委員好。目前刑事局在做深偽影音的鑑識，一個軟體四個小時就可以出來。"],["廖委員先翔：因為之前羅委員的檢舉案件是具名檢舉，但現在法務部還沒有跟社會大眾說明真假是什麼原因？如果它是假的，你們應該要幫羅委員說這是假的，才能夠還他清白，是這樣吧？"],["余主任秘書麗貞：因為當時檢舉的時候是有關於性影像，根據性侵害犯罪防治法，這個是當事人的隱私……"],["廖委員先翔：所以以後AI深偽只要是做性影像的，我跟你們檢舉就不會對大眾告知了嗎？"],["余主任秘書麗貞：性侵害犯罪防治法有規定，除非當事人同意。"],["廖委員先翔：現在大家聽到你這樣子講，所有的網軍全部開始在做了，這樣不對吧？"],["余主任秘書麗貞：如果它是假的，我們當然會讓當事人知道，如果當事人願意公開，因為性侵害犯罪防治法有規定，除非當事人同意。"],["廖委員先翔：所以他只有檢舉有關性的部分，那錄音檔的部分呢？也有檢舉嗎？"],["余主任秘書麗貞：有。"],["廖委員先翔：這個有關性嗎？"],["余主任秘書麗貞：有。"],["廖委員先翔：也有關性，兩個都有關性，所以現在法務部的立場是只要有關性的，就不會跟社會大眾說是真的還假的。"],["余主任秘書麗貞：非主動。"],["廖委員先翔：我覺得這會是未來選務一個很大的問題，未來可能會出現，大家應該要及早做好準備，這樣子的回復我想應該不是大家所能夠接受的，只是我的時間到了，沒有辦法再跟你追問，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔召委。","下一位請張宏陸委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":356,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-19","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","李坤城","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","吳琪銘","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","丁學忠","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","蘇清泉"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、警政署署長、法務部次長就「115年11月28日地方公職人員選舉選務維安\n勤務工作規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警\n政署署長、法務部次長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會就「115年11月28日地方公職人員選\n舉選務整備、選務中立、假訊息因應作為與公民投票選務辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n三、繼續審查委員羅智強等18人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案；四、繼續審查\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公民投票法第二十一條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員葉\n元之等19 人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員廖偉翔等 16 人擬具\n「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員賴士葆等25人擬具「公民投票法第二\n十一條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}