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這個我覺得我們應該都很困惑為什麼我們在經濟委員會這個剛剛前面很多委員應該都有提到了這個其實就是應該在三樓它應該是在我們國防外交委員會要來審查的一個法案但是我們現在卻在經濟到現在我也搞不清楚為什麼今天會到這部田地畢竟我們從無人機的需求從去年開始提出"},{"start":49.092,"end":68.568,"text":"現在已經七月了所以已經整整過了七八個月結果呢在最早的時候呢我們的在野黨講的是什麼講的是說這個沒有國情報告我們就沒有辦法來通過這一些後來呢也沒有國情報告的狀況之下突然就可以通過一部分的特別預算的條例"},{"start":69.309,"end":86.194,"text":"然後呢無人機飛鴻供應鏈等等的就莫名其妙的被放在旁邊然後現在又可以又被提出來所以這其實呢不但是拖著我們的國防的時間它其實呢對於這個內容對於品項還有這個法律的寫作我覺得真的是亂七八糟"},{"start":86.934,"end":113.263,"text":"我在這邊有先列我們現行有兩個非常重要的條例一個是產業創新條例一個是國防產業發展條例這兩個都是我們現在如果我們真的關心國內產業的發展我們就有產業創新條例我記得我好像是在總質詢的時候那時候AI在發展的時候我們認為產業創新條例裡面應該要有AI所以當時怎麼做就把AI放到產業創新條例裡面其實就結束了"},{"start":114.235,"end":123.115,"text":"所以如果今天我們真的認為無人機的發展重要那我們就把它放到產業創新條例嘛如果今天是跟國防有關的那就放到國防產業發展條例嘛"},{"start":124.825,"end":147.743,"text":"這陣子我們最有名的應該就是潛建國造這各位應該都非常的清楚請問我們潛建國造帶動國內的產業沒有錯啊那請問我們要弄一個潛建國造產業創新條例嗎不需要啊所以我們現在弄了不管是這一個國民黨提的國防自主無人採聚科技發展採購條例跟民眾黨提的強化國防自主及無人產業發展條例草案這跌床架屋嘛"},{"start":148.263,"end":170.878,"text":"因為這是我們現行的規範裡面就已經有的東西那如果我們要回到跟國防有關的採購國防有關的採購就應該在三樓討論為什麼會在這邊討論我對於現在我們在這邊討論這件事情整個條例的提出和寫作我都非常有意見那我相信部長或是法律人在這邊提幾個點比如說本來的我們這個行政院院辦的"},{"start":171.198,"end":194.583,"text":"他對於預算法跟公共債務法他要怎麼去排除因為他是特別預算的特別條例所以他必須要做一些排除他才有辦法不配不去擠壓我們的年度的預算那現在呢我們用這一個國防自主無人載具科技發展這一個條例他沒有去做排除啊那他財政紀律法跟預算法他本身就沒有遵守啦"},{"start":195.319,"end":206.146,"text":"那這不就是要把這樣的一個購買故意的把它放在年度預算那它不是明擺著要你去擠壓我們跟教育跟未還跟這一個社會福利有關的預算嗎"},{"start":208.026,"end":232.86,"text":"那如果執政黨我們今天在行政體系裡面我們不願意去擠壓到教育不願意去擠壓到衛福的時候那請問這個預算要怎麼編他實質提出這個條例就是讓你們預算變得不能編如果今天放在特別條例的時候因為他有做排除我們可以在這個狀況之下不擠壓我們的社會福利不擠壓我們的教育文化的狀況之下然後還可以來做這些國防自主產業的這個購買"},{"start":234.261,"end":248.71,"text":"所以這顯然明顯你從去年黨到現在現在這樣做照樣還是黨啊你放在年度預算就是會有困難更不要講說違憲的問題我剛剛聽到前面部長應該都有回答到這個本身等於是立法院自己編預算自己審"},{"start":249.891,"end":272.142,"text":"這完全不合理嘛更不要講說呢我看到這一個民眾黨的版本裡面講到說要需要發展的綱領需要做什麼交通的改革需要測試的場域問題是我們本來就算是我們原本劃給這一個經濟部四年四百多億的它本來這個四大推動主軸它就已經在上面了"},{"start":272.981,"end":280.151,"text":"那已經在上面的東西他本來這個辦法跟計畫就已經存在那你寫這個條例到底是要做什麼"},{"start":281.391,"end":304.113,"text":"它沒有任何的意義耶就是你把大家都已經在做的事情然後你說要把它變成一個條例為什麼突然要提升到法律的位階剛剛嘉賓委員其實就已經講得很清楚了這一些跟無人載具有關的發展它是日新月異有時候是不到一個月甚至是幾個禮拜它相關的技術它應該有的方向就完全改變了你把它變成條例你其實是把它卡死"},{"start":304.813,"end":333.173,"text":"那更不要講說呢我看到國民黨這一個版本它裡面講到說這一個呢速發部要會同國防部啦做好這個什麼通訊的模組啦什麼等等之類的然後飛鴻供應鏈可能要怎麼做啦我們的工程會針對飛鴻的分級的方式表明明白白的就我這表格就附在上面啊這本來就有的東西啊我們的工程會的遙控無人機的採購作業指引裡面從預算的編列到採購策略的應用屏占轉換共通性的規格國產化"},{"start":334.895,"end":338.566,"text":"飛鴻供應鏈要怎麼做檢測管理使用列帳保險都已經規範了"},{"start":339.687,"end":367.285,"text":"啊這些都是已經在規範的事情那為什麼為什麼現在要把他放在這個條例上面然後讓他變得沒有彈性所以我覺得整件事情到現在就是亂搞啊亂搞就算了明明就應該在三樓在國防外交委員會討論結果現在要我們來經濟委員會討論這些事情我們對於國防的自主對於國防的採購這是國防事務欸啊分什麼軍 他說這個軍用跟商用難道是沒有聽過雙用嗎Due use沒有聽過嗎"},{"start":369.807,"end":395.721,"text":"這個現在對我們的國防是多麼重要的事情從去年到現在 黨就算了造成國防的這一個購買的delay就算了現在實質的是把它變成條例之後你等於還把它的彈性卡死耶然後到最後把它弄到年度預算之後變成說它沒有辦法只能放在年度預算那這個時候只要你有其他的教育文化跟衛生福利相關的你就要被擠壓那不是明擺著叫你不要編嗎"},{"start":396.661,"end":418.955,"text":"我覺得這是很過分的一件事情國人必須要正視這件事情剛剛部長在前面已經回答很多了所以我想說這邊部長就不用再回答但是我在這邊有直播一定要讓國人知道到底現在在搞什麼鬼就明明是一件簡單的事情我們今天要帶動國內的產業我們今天科技的發展這個稅收其實是變多的"},{"start":419.451,"end":445.923,"text":"那今天在科技發展順遂變多的時候我們對於傳統產業我們要怎麼扶植我們要怎麼讓它加入到這一邊這個非紅供應鏈那時候明明白白在最早提出來的那個特別條例寫多麼清楚如果說剛剛那麼多上來諮詢的委員都說他們不反對非紅供應鏈那為什麼不早早在去年11月的時候就把非紅供應鏈的規則就讓它在特別條例可以通過規則在我們的工程會在我們的指引裡面本來就已經有規定了"},{"start":447.205,"end":474.216,"text":"所以我覺得這些目前我們現在討論的這幾個除了院版 還有我知道處理委員也有一個版本這其他看起來跟打假球沒有什麼兩樣啦更不要講說裡面還有一個更誇張的 這我一定要提這個國民黨黨版的這個第五條跟第六條它的戰備儲存 它直接跟你講說我載無人載具生產的機器要分布在三個不同的縣市不要集中在單一地理區域我們把戰略的東西定在法條上面要做什麼"},{"start":475.319,"end":496.752,"text":"那如果這個以後變成可以索取的事項那我們要怎麼辦我們把國防機密直接把它定在上面然後今天軍民共用測試場的這個跟國安相關的你至少你跟他講說我要至少三處那你把它定在這一邊這些都是對方想要的資料結果我們把它明明白白的定在法條上面"},{"start":497.912,"end":521.15,"text":"這個說真的這絕對不是一個我是覺得如果對於國防不了解或者對於國際情勢不了解就不要寫出這樣的一個法條然後放在國會的殿堂然後在錯誤的委員會討論這個是我覺得完全不能接受的事情這個是我在去年在今年一月的時候我那時候就有講到如果今天我們認為這個產創我們對於國內的這個產業要扶植要怎麼做我在一月的時候就講了"},{"start":525.333,"end":542.613,"text":"就是經濟部要去微調產促條例十之一當時AI就是這樣做它就是一個現有的法規如果也覺得有什麼新的標準產促條例你在這邊做微調你在經濟委員會你可以討論但你在國防的採購你就是應該回到國防外交委員會"},{"start":543.494,"end":569.783,"text":"所以這真的是我必須要講就是現在這一個情勢我覺得國人一定要看清楚現在在野黨所提出來的這些法條還有這些本本到底在做什麼那真的很不好意思讓這個部會站在這邊但是我覺得因為剛剛前面都已經回答太多了態度也很清楚啦到底有沒有違憲之餘啦這個採購到底如果說你跌到年度預算應該要怎麼辦我覺得剛剛前面都回答得很清楚"},{"start":570.123,"end":577.718,"text":"所以我在這邊要表達嚴正的抗議我們應該要回到國防外交委員會來討論國防的採購不是在這邊不是在經濟委員會謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:14:56.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:14:59.756000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T12:14:59.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:15:00.697000+08:00","text":"請國防部顧部長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:15:04.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:15:05.722000+08:00","text":"沈委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:15:05.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:15:07.022000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:15:07.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:15:12.564000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們應該都很困惑，為什麼我們在經濟委員會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:15:12.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:15:39.096000+08:00","text":"剛剛前面很多委員應該都有提到了，這一個其實就是應該在3樓，應該是我們國防及外交委員會要審查的法案，但是我們現在卻在經濟委員會，到現在我也搞不清楚為什麼今天會到這步田地，畢竟我們無人機的需求從去年開始提出，現在已經7月了，所以已經整整過了7、8個月。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:15:40.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:15:43.860000+08:00","text":"在最早的時候我們的在野黨講的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:15:43.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:16:02.071000+08:00","text":"講的是沒有國情報告，我們就沒有辦法通過這一些案子，後來在沒有國情報告的狀況之下，突然就可以通過一部分特別預算的條例，無人機、非紅供應鏈等等的就莫名其妙地被放在旁邊，然後現在又可以被提出來。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:16:02.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:16:11.174000+08:00","text":"這不但是拖著我們國防的時間，他其實對於內容、對於品項，還有這個法律的寫作，我覺得真的是亂七八糟。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:16:11.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:16:21.397000+08:00","text":"我在這邊有先列出，我們現行有兩個非常重要的條例：一個是產業創新條例，一個是國防產業發展條例，這兩個都是我們現有的。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:16:21.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:16:25.659000+08:00","text":"如果我們真的關心國內產業的發展，我們就有產業創新條例。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:16:26.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:16:47.975000+08:00","text":"我記得我好像是在總質詢的時候，那時候AI在發展，我們認為產業創新條例裡面應該要有AI，所以當時就把AI放到產業創新條例裡面，其實就結束了，所以如果今天我們真的認為無人機的發展重要，那我們就把它放到產業創新條例裡；如果今天是跟國防有關的，那就放到國防產業發展條例。","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:16:49.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:00.834000+08:00","text":"這陣子我們最有名的應該就是潛艦國造，各位應該都非常清楚，我們的潛艦國造帶動國內的產業，沒有錯，那請問我們要弄一個潛艦國造產業創新條例嗎？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:17:00.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:01.354000+08:00","text":"不需要啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:17:02.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:12.723000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在審的，不管是國民黨提的「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例」草案或是民眾黨提的「強化國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例」草案，這疊床架屋嘛！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:17:13.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:23.009000+08:00","text":"因為這是我們現行的規範裡面就已經有的東西，如果我們要回到跟國防有關的採購，跟國防有關的採購就應該在3樓討論，為什麼會在這邊討論？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:17:23.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:29.354000+08:00","text":"我對於現在我們在這邊討論這件事情，對整個條例的提出和寫作都非常有意見。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:17:29.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:47.700000+08:00","text":"部長是法律人，我在這邊提幾個點，比如說本來行政院院版的條例，它對於預算法跟公共債務法要怎麼去排除，因為它是特別預算的特別條例，所以它必須要做一些排除才有辦法不去擠壓我們的年度預算。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:17:48.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:17:59.563000+08:00","text":"現在我們用這一個國防自主無人載具科技發展條例，它沒有去排除，那它本身就沒有遵守財政紀律法跟預算法啦！","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:18:00.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:18:11.146000+08:00","text":"這不就是故意要把這樣的購買放在年度預算，那它不是明擺著要你去擠壓我們跟教育、跟衛環、跟社會福利有關的預算嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:18:13.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:18:21.591000+08:00","text":"如果今天執政黨在行政體系裡面不願意去擠壓到教育、不願意去擠壓到衛福預算的時候，請問這個預算要怎麼編？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:18:21.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:18:24.893000+08:00","text":"他實質提出這個條例就是讓你們的預算變得不能編耶！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:18:24.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:18:44.785000+08:00","text":"如果今天放在特別條例，因為它有排除，我們可以在不擠壓我們的社會福利，不擠壓我們教育文化預算的狀況之下，還可以來做這些國防自主產業的購買，所以顯然，他們從去年擋到現在，現在這樣做，照樣還是擋啊！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:18:45.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:18:47.386000+08:00","text":"你放在年度預算就是會有困難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:18:47.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:19:25.151000+08:00","text":"更不要講違憲的問題，我剛剛聽到前面部長應該都有回答到，這個本身等於是立法院自己編預算自己審，這完全不合理，更不要講我看到民眾黨的版本裡面講到需要發展綱領、需要交通改革、需要測試場域，問題是就算是我們原本劃給經濟部四年四百多億的預算，本來這四大推動主軸就已經在上面了，已經在上面的東西，本來這個辦法跟計畫就已經存在，那你寫這個條例到底是要做什麼？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:19:26.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:19:27.332000+08:00","text":"它沒有任何的意義耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:19:27.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:19:34.399000+08:00","text":"就是大家都已經在做的事情，然後你說要把它變成一個條例，為什麼突然要提升到法律的位階？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:19:34.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:19:49.092000+08:00","text":"剛剛鍾佳濱委員其實就已經講得很清楚了，這一些跟無人載具有關的發展日新月異，有時候不到一個月、甚至是幾個禮拜，它相關的技術、它應該有的方向就完全改變，你把它變成條例，你其實是把它卡死。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:19:49.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:20:10.007000+08:00","text":"更不要說我看到國民黨這個版本，它裡面講到，數發部要會同國防部做好通訊的模組之類的，然後非紅供應鏈可能要怎麼做等等，我們的工程會針對非紅程度有分級方式表，寫得明明白白的，這個表格我就附在上面，這是本來就有的東西。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:20:11.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:20:33.093000+08:00","text":"工程會的遙控無人機採購作業指引裡面，從預算編列、採購策略應用、平戰轉換共通性規格、國產化及非紅供應鏈、要怎麼做檢測、管理使用列帳及保險都已經規範了，這些都是已經有規範的事情，為什麼現在要把它放在這個條例上面，讓它變得沒有彈性？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:20:34.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:20:36.555000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得整件事情到現在就是在亂搞！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:20:37.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:20:48.303000+08:00","text":"亂搞就算了，明明這些事情就應該在三樓的外交及國防委員會討論，結果現在要我們來經濟委員會討論，我們對於國防的自主、對於國防的採購，這是國防事務耶！","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:20:49.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:20:52.285000+08:00","text":"然後說這個有分軍用或商用，難道是沒有聽過雙用、沒有聽過dual-use嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:20:54.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:21:20.721000+08:00","text":"這個現在對我們的國防是多麼重要的事情，從去年到現在，擋就算了、造成國防購買的delay就算了，現在實質的是把它變成條例之後，等於還把它的彈性卡死，到最後把它弄到年度預算之後，變成它沒有辦法，只能放在年度預算，這個時候只要有其他像教育、文化或衛生福利相關的有需要，它就要被擠壓，那不是明擺著叫你不要編嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:21:21.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:21:25.303000+08:00","text":"我覺得這是很過分的一件事情，國人必須要正視這件事情！","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:21:26.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:21:51.134000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長在前面已經回答很多了，所以我想說這邊部長就不用再回答，但是因為有直播，所以我在這邊一定要讓國人知道到底現在在搞什麼鬼，明明是一件簡單的事情，我們今天要帶動國內的產業，我們今天因科技的發展，其實稅收是變多的，而今天在科技發展、稅收變多的時候，我們對於傳統產業要怎麼扶植、要怎麼讓它加入到這一邊？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:21:51.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:22:08.201000+08:00","text":"這個非紅供應鏈，那時候明明白白，在最早提出來的那個特別條例裡寫得多麼清楚，剛剛那麼多上來質詢的委員都說他們不反對非紅供應鏈，那為什麼不早早在去年11月的時候就讓非紅供應鏈的規則可以在特別條例通過？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:22:08.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:22:10.903000+08:00","text":"規則在工程會的指引裡面本來就已經有規定了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:22:12.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:22:36.675000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得目前我們現在討論的這幾個，除了院版，還有我知道楚茵委員也有一個版本外，其他看起來跟打假球沒有什麼兩樣，更不要說裡面還有一個更誇張的，這我一定要提，國民黨黨版第五條和第六條的「戰備儲存」，他直接跟你說，無人載具生產的機器要分布在三個不同的縣市，不要集中在單一地理區域。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:22:37.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:22:39.216000+08:00","text":"我們把戰略的東西定在法條上面要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:22:40.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:22:44.141000+08:00","text":"如果這個以後變成可以索取的事項，那我們要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:22:44.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:23:17.563000+08:00","text":"我們把國防機密直接定在上面，然後今天跟國安相關的「軍民共用測試場域」，你跟他說我要至少三處，你把它定在這邊，這些都是對方想要的資料，結果我們把它明明白白的定在法條上面，說真的，我覺得如果對於國防不了解或者對於國際情勢不了解，那就不要寫出這樣的法條，然後放在國會的殿堂，然後在錯誤的委員會裡討論，這個是我覺得完全不能接受的事情。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:23:18.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:23:25.269000+08:00","text":"我在今年1月的時候就有講過，如果今天我們認為要扶植國內的產業，要怎麼做？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:23:25.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:23:47.613000+08:00","text":"我在1月的時候就講了，就是經濟部要去微調產促條例，當時AI就是這樣做，它就是一個現有的法規，如果覺得有什麼新的標準，你可以在產促條例這邊做微調，可以在經濟委員會討論，但是對於國防的採購，就是應該回到外交及國防委員會。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:23:48.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:23:59.838000+08:00","text":"所以我必須要講，對於現在這個情勢，我覺得國人一定要看清楚，現在在野黨所提出來的這些法條和版本到底在做什麼！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:00.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:14.763000+08:00","text":"真的很不好意思讓部會站在這邊，但是我覺得因為剛剛前面都已經回答太多了，態度也很清楚，到底有沒有違憲之虞，採購到底……如果你編到年度預算，應該要怎麼辦，我覺得剛剛前面都回答得很清楚了。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:15.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:22.718000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊要表達嚴正的抗議，我們應該要回到外交及國防委員會來討論國防的採購，而不是在這邊，不是在經濟委員會！謝謝。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:23.218000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:24.360857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:24.660857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:26.089429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:26.389429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:29.532286+08:00","text":"接下來請郭國文委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}