{"error":false,"id":["170584"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170584,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170584","日期":"2026-07-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-20T10:43:15+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-20T10:55:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:21","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/09ae2675330bc1e5d60c0cb73c5002dd33c80af58084ea9966d138d5aa97db623a4875bd750b89d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:43:15 - 10:55:36","會議時間":"2026-07-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央研究院院長陳建仁列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":0.03096875,"end":3.60846875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":9.36284375,"end":10.88159375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":11.219093750000003,"end":12.552218750000002,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":15.825968750000001,"end":16.36596875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":17.41221875,"end":19.133468750000002,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":19.454093750000002,"end":28.718468750000003,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":29.05596875,"end":34.79346875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":35.282843750000005,"end":88.33784375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":88.91159375000001,"end":91.42596875000001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":91.56096875,"end":94.85159375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":95.35784375,"end":100.70721875000001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":95.47596875,"end":95.50971875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":101.04471875,"end":105.90471875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":106.52909375,"end":107.49096875000001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":107.54159375,"end":119.45534375000001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":119.57346875,"end":152.24346875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":152.68221875,"end":154.79159375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":155.85471875000002,"end":159.90471875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":158.94284375,"end":164.52846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":165.27096875,"end":175.90221875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":165.92909375000002,"end":166.26659375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":174.09659375,"end":174.63659375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":175.19346875000002,"end":177.38721875000002,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":178.45034375,"end":179.81721875000002,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":180.08721875,"end":180.79596875000001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":181.28534375,"end":187.46159375000002,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":188.13659375,"end":203.66159375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":204.47159375,"end":215.49096875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":216.26721875,"end":218.98409375000003,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":219.27096875,"end":246.69284375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":247.28346875000003,"end":253.29096875000002,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":254.03346875000003,"end":256.34534375000004,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":256.78409375,"end":260.53034375000004,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":260.95221875000004,"end":269.03534375000004,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":269.40659375,"end":272.10659375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":272.86596875000004,"end":274.40159375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":274.50284375,"end":285.38721875000005,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":286.07909375,"end":291.54659375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":291.63096875,"end":301.16534375000003,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":301.41846875000005,"end":308.06721875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":301.75596875,"end":301.77284375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":308.64096875,"end":310.88534375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":311.29034375000003,"end":321.51659375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":321.92159375,"end":328.53659375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":329.29596875000004,"end":331.16909375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":331.27034375,"end":342.96471875000003,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":343.62284375,"end":348.16221875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":348.61784375,"end":353.89971875000003,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":354.43971875,"end":356.44784375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":356.49846875000003,"end":359.53596875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":360.02534375000005,"end":361.32471875000005,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":362.30346875000004,"end":365.18909375000004,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":365.99909375000004,"end":369.17159375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":369.55971875,"end":372.85034375000004,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":373.60971875,"end":375.28034375000004,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":375.49971875,"end":392.91471875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":383.38034375,"end":383.70096875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":388.29096875000005,"end":388.91534375000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":393.62346875000003,"end":400.76159375000003,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":401.35221875,"end":401.63909375000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":402.09471875,"end":406.19534375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":406.92096875000004,"end":407.71409375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":408.69284375,"end":410.70096875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":410.58284375000005,"end":411.59534375000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":410.95409375,"end":415.30784375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":415.57784375,"end":420.79221875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":421.29846875000004,"end":466.21971875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":466.48971875,"end":500.03721875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":500.29034375000003,"end":502.23096875000005,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":502.87221875000006,"end":504.55971875000006,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":505.89284375000005,"end":520.30409375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":520.3715937500001,"end":527.8640937499999,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":528.58971875,"end":535.7278437500001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":538.5459687499999,"end":540.99284375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":541.39784375,"end":545.2790937500001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":545.6840937500001,"end":560.7365937500001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":561.39471875,"end":600.5615937499999,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":601.42221875,"end":604.37534375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":604.6284687500001,"end":620.6428437500001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":621.67221875,"end":627.2240937500001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":627.2240937500001,"end":645.63471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":645.9553437500001,"end":651.91221875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":652.18221875,"end":654.03846875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":654.5447187500001,"end":688.91909375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":688.91909375,"end":689.17221875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":689.17221875,"end":690.45471875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":690.8090937500001,"end":692.86784375,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":693.7790937500001,"end":698.4197187500001,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":699.1115937500001,"end":732.81096875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":727.14096875,"end":727.19159375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":727.29284375,"end":727.6472187500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":731.78159375,"end":732.65909375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":733.1315937500001,"end":736.42221875,"speaker_score":0.994},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳委員思瑤","start":738.0422187500001,"end":741.3328437499999,"speaker_score":0.994}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.049,"end":2.231,"text":"下一位我們有請吳思瑤委員進行詢答謝謝有請陳院長好有請院長吳委員好"},{"start":17.438,"end":34.485,"text":"大仁哥好 院长好今天非常的开心能够在立法院跟新任的中研院院长台湾最高的学术研究机关的领导人一起来对话但是你一上任就有危机一上任就有难题 夏业"},{"start":35.405,"end":59.741,"text":"首先呢我非常的肯定您破坏的中研院的五大挑战从少子化高龄化的课题到气候变迁的因应到国家面对能源转型如何强化能源的韧性以及全球健康的风险这五大挑战是您立定为您领导中研院迈向下一个百年的重要的议题"},{"start":65.585,"end":94.488,"text":"我甚至也看到您在各個關鍵領域裡頭持續投入的這些宣示更重要的是我也看到一個亮點中研院未來跟國內各大學跟機構在組成重點人文及科技領域的Team Taiwan這也是您一個宏觀的藍圖我也再一次的肯定也無限的期待但是您過去也擔任過行政院長現在回過頭來想您那個時候還算Lucky"},{"start":95.588,"end":119.781,"text":"没有面临到这样子无限期延宕总预算的立法院到现在今年的预算325天没有通过我们很担忧8月下个月马上行政院会送出新的预算书这就是史上第一次国会一年要审两本预算书而"},{"start":120.481,"end":132.209,"text":"面對中研院的領導人總預算的不確定因素就大大衝擊我們的學術研究的能量各項的計劃人才的培育延攬貴重機器的設備營運"},{"start":135.811,"end":164.077,"text":"AI 算力的部件 資料庫的維護乃至於我們的研究成果 國內外的交流 還有科普等等這些全部都沒丁沒當所以這是您上任的難題你目前有掌握我們的翁曉林委員大筆的砍向中研院的預算你有相關的資料嗎我有相關的資料 他砍的預算大概有兩億多 將近三億"},{"start":166.424,"end":177.181,"text":"那这个里面实际上他不太了解我们的这个结构特别是业务费的部分有很多是用人费我等一下我们一上下来下一页"},{"start":178.513,"end":200.42,"text":"翁小玲委員前陣子砍向13個部會的沒宣費一稿13用只有翁小玲可以超越翁小玲現在一樣複製貼上非常廉價的複製貼上我沒有看過立法委員審查預算可以這麼簡單複製貼上一稿15砍"},{"start":204.557,"end":227.972,"text":"在中研院汪小玲食髓之味變本加厲啊一個稿子一個複製貼上一個公版就提出了15案這些理由也非常的籠統政府要量入為出啦尊潔公帑啦減劣非必要非急迫性的支出啦政府各部會要勒緊褲帶共體時間來因應我們的"},{"start":232.014,"end":246.089,"text":"他還扯到國防支出我不曉得他東扯西扯都難以掩蓋他是要惡意癱瘓最高學術研究機關的正常運作我甚至認為他也見指陳建仁院長"},{"start":247.37,"end":268.75,"text":"您一上任就要給您一些排頭詞給您一些難題來解下一頁其實您剛說數字兩三億我精準的算出我一案一案15個案子其實翁小玲一稿15用大砍4.68億中研院的業務費報告院長是4.68億"},{"start":272.95,"end":300.885,"text":"我非常慎重这个是委办费砍了96%将会影响我们的科研安全的防御网会影响我们重大任务型的研究对不对这边右边的国内组织的会费汪晓琳砍了56%会影响我们的学术大学科研机构的合作交流会削弱我们的学术的研究的量能跟串联不是吗"},{"start":301.825,"end":327.837,"text":"一搞多用又來了 特別費我說他就是見職成見人 要讓你拍照就對了特別費刪了九成 這讓新任的院長我們要接待非常多國內外的重要的訪兵我們要慰勞同仁都不能做 因為砍了九成特別費右邊是通訊費 影響我們中研院的數位工作他砍了四成的通訊費"},{"start":329.358,"end":342.738,"text":"再来一稿15砍保险费连保险费都不放过砍了三成二会影响我们的科研人员研究生还有重要仪器的这些保险的费用吗"},{"start":343.7,"end":371.03,"text":"右邊這個呢 願用人員的酬金2.5億要砍掉這影響的就是我們的攬財育財跟流財對不對國內外的這些優秀的學研的人員他是用這一筆珍貴的願用人員酬金是要把我們的人才趕出中研院嗎再來呢 一般事務費大砍五千萬會傷及我們的基礎營運學術傳播的命脈"},{"start":373.666,"end":399.835,"text":"按日寄件的酬金按日寄件的酬金砍了三成七這就是讓我們來可以因應來我們要有很多延攬外部的專業人員來提供我們的會議論壇甚至稿件的徵集不是嗎這裡還非常多連車資國內外旅費物品的採購物品的採購大砍四千五百萬會讓我們的實驗室的運作中斷"},{"start":402.165,"end":425.252,"text":"再來運費旅費等等不一而足所以院長這是您一上任的難題面對又是一個他完全不是理性他只是為了報復只是為了政治報復連中研院的預算都這樣大砍你有什麼因應我們會把我們覺得這樣的一個"},{"start":426.812,"end":447.685,"text":"大山預算的這個做法我們會在朝野協商的時候呢好好的跟大家說明實際上這一些的經費呢都是相當必要的也謝謝這個吳世耀委員在這一個部分在影響的部分您真的是很了解我們中央研究院預算正常運作的這個必要"},{"start":448.405,"end":464.559,"text":"那也特別感謝那另外呢我們我剛才講的3.5億實際上只是人員訓練的部分如果包括其他部分確實到4.8億這對中央研究院的正常運作有很大很大的影響我們一定會具體力爭來爭取不要有這樣的一個刪減的狀況"},{"start":466.533,"end":488.992,"text":"我的建议三项第一项当然要赶快跟我们执政党负责协商的党边联系在政党协商的时候我们一定要具体例证第二个虽然我们明知在野党的委员就是政治抱负但是我们该做的事我们也要努力去游说我们积极的把每一个预算如果这样被恶砍"},{"start":490.413,"end":501.499,"text":"將會影響中研院的各項運作要清楚的向委員說明我們該做的事情我們要努力第三件事情向社會論述努力的向社會論述一個惡意刪減"},{"start":506.116,"end":527.079,"text":"預算的在野黨委員如果他的刪減的每一個內容都能夠具體指出過去在各個預算項目我們執行上有缺漏有弊病要改進那我們可以接受可是他完全提不出任何對應於實質刪減內容的理由完全就在模擬兩可"},{"start":528.872,"end":544.888,"text":"這就是政治的報復所以說呢我也要再次挑戰了用你的魔法打敗你用翁祥林的魔法打敗他"},{"start":545.728,"end":559.703,"text":"他所有的預算提案複製貼上都是為了蹲劫支出他說我們要強化國防所以說呢這個國防支出創下歷史新高所以各部會就要蹲劫支出要勒緊褲帶"},{"start":561.625,"end":578.952,"text":"這不就是邏輯錯誌嗎我們現在提出的無人機特別條例行政部門就是擔心排擠了公務預算 排擠了年度預算 排擠了教科文 排擠了社福所以我們用特別預算的方式一次編列2100億可以有效的一次授權"},{"start":582.734,"end":600.237,"text":"快速建立非紅無人機供應鏈的量能能夠減少預算的排擠風險這就是行政院為什麼要努力的用特別預算的編列來因應無人機產業跟國防的要求"},{"start":601.522,"end":620.355,"text":"所以汪小林委員的提案就是自我打臉最後我拋出這個問題就您學研的角度我們的無人機對於台灣在國防在安全任性在各項的民生應用您是不是來支持我們行政院目前國防"},{"start":622.742,"end":645.376,"text":"產業都缺無人機不可的這樣子的一個特別條例的方向呢是其實無人機確實是相當的重要不管是在國內或者是在國外現有的這個案例都知道無人機的使用值越來越普遍而且不管是在國防民生方面都很重要所以我國確實是需要在這一方面有一個特別的預算來支持"},{"start":646.116,"end":664.17,"text":"因為您過去擔任過我們的副元首擔任過行政院長我想您一定非常的感同身受在野黨不好好當立法院的工作立法院只搶當行政院的工作違反了憲法權力分立的原則現在在野黨的委員不審預算"},{"start":665.251,"end":692.553,"text":"却大量的在编列预算用这些预算的手段破坏权利分立的原则甚至在无人机的条例重要的建军战备的任务他们却恶意的架空国防部重大的国防采购由经济部去主管我想这个科学家应当都非常难以理解我头痛为什么去看骨科呢"},{"start":693.837,"end":721.999,"text":"對不對我胃痛為什麼安排我去看皮膚科呢更重要的是排除國防自主的三項重要的採購都被排除在在野黨的版本之外還有我們對於其他公務預算的排擠風險我想向社會論述是重要的就無人機這個課題這也攸關我們的民生應用我們的科研端也請院長率領我們中研院的夥伴們"},{"start":722.699,"end":740.98,"text":"把国家产业的需求国防的需求大声的向社会论述不好意思因为第一次咨询有点期待讲的比较久我们一起加油谢谢院长谢谢谢谢吴思瑶委员的咨询请院长回座下一位有请罗志强委员进行询答"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:43:16.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:43:16.931000+08:00","text":"謝謝，有請陳院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T10:43:16.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:43:17.111000+08:00","text":"有請院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2026-07-20T10:43:17.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:43:17.211000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:43:32.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:43:33.739000+08:00","text":"大仁哥好、院長好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:43:34.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:43:48.344000+08:00","text":"今天非常開心能夠在立法院跟新任的中研院院長、臺灣最高學術研究機關的領導人一起對話，但是你一上任就有危機、一上任就有難題。","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:43:50.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:44:14.321000+08:00","text":"首先，我非常肯定您擘劃的中研院五大挑戰，從少子化、高齡化的課題，到因應氣候變遷，到國家面對能源轉型要如何強化能源韌性，以及全球健康風險，這五大挑戰是您立定為您領導中研院邁向下一個百年的重要議題，我非常的感恩，我看到您全方位的擘劃。","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:44:20.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:44:42.402000+08:00","text":"我甚至也看到您在各個關鍵領域裡頭持續投入的宣示，更重要的是，我也看到一個亮點，中研院未來跟國內各大學、機構組成重點人文及科技領域的Team Taiwan，這也是您的宏觀藍圖，我也再一次的肯定、也無限的期待。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:44:44.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:45:13.520000+08:00","text":"您過去也擔任過行政院長，現在回過頭來想，您那個時候還算lucky，沒有面臨到這樣子無限期延宕總預算的立法院，到現在，今年的預算325天沒有通過，我們很擔憂，8月、下個月行政院馬上會送出新的預算書，這就是史上第一次國會1年要審2本預算書。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:45:14.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:45:45.914000+08:00","text":"而對於中研院的領導人，總預算的不確定因素就大大衝擊你們的學術研究能量、各項計畫、人才培育延攬、貴重機器設備營運、AI算力布建、資料庫維護，乃至於研究成果發表、國內外交流還有科普等等，這些全部都「袂振袂動」，所以這是您上任的難題！","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:45:46.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:45:54.036000+08:00","text":"目前針對翁曉玲委員大筆砍向中研院的預算，你有掌握相關的資訊嗎？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2026-07-20T10:45:54.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:46:08.335000+08:00","text":"有，我有相關的資料，他砍的預算大概有兩億多、將近三億，在這當中，實際上他不太了解我們的結構，特別是業務費的部分，有很多是用人費……","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:46:10.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:46:12.141000+08:00","text":"等一下，我們一項一項來。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:46:13.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:46:25.737000+08:00","text":"翁曉玲委員前陣子砍向13個部會的媒宣費，1稿13用，只有翁曉玲可以超越翁曉玲！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:46:27.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:47:17.926000+08:00","text":"現在一樣，複製貼上、非常廉價的複製貼上，我沒有看過立法委員審查預算可以這麼簡單的複製貼上，1稿15砍，在中研院的部分，翁曉玲食髓知味、變本加厲，1個稿子、1個複製貼上、1個公版就提出了15案，這些理由也非常的籠統，政府要量入為出、撙節公帑，減列非必要、非急迫性的支出，政府各部會要勒緊褲帶、共體時艱來因應我們的……他還扯到國防支出，他東扯西扯都難以掩蓋他是要惡意癱瘓最高學術研究機關的正常運作！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:47:18.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:47:27.535000+08:00","text":"我甚至認為他也劍指陳建仁院長，您一上任就要給您一些排頭吃、給您一些難題來解。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:47:29.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:47:43.750000+08:00","text":"您剛剛說的數字是2、3億，我一案一案精準的算出15個案子，其實翁曉玲1稿15用、大砍4.68億中研院的業務費，報告院長，是4.68億！","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:47:47.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:47:59.956000+08:00","text":"我非常慎重，委辦費砍了96%，將會影響我們的科研安全防禦網、會影響我們的重大任務型研究，對不對？","quality":0.585},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:48:01.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:48:15.725000+08:00","text":"右邊是國內組織會費，翁曉玲砍了56%，會影響我們大學科研機構的合作交流、會削弱我們的學術研究量能跟串聯，不是嗎？是。","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:48:16.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:48:22.788000+08:00","text":"一稿多用又來了，關於特別費，我說他就是劍指陳建仁，要讓你難看就對了！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:48:23.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:48:42.837000+08:00","text":"特別費刪了九成，這讓新任院長接待國內外的重要訪賓、慰勞同仁都不能做，因為砍了九成特別費；右邊是通訊費，影響中研院的數位工作，他砍了四成通訊費。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:48:44.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:49:07.943000+08:00","text":"再來，1稿15砍，連保險費都不放過，砍了三成二，會影響我們的科研人員、研究生還有重要儀器的保險費；右邊約用人員的酬金2.5億要砍掉，這影響的就是攬才、育才跟留才，對不對？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:49:07.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:49:21.088000+08:00","text":"國內外的優秀學研人員是用這一筆珍貴的約用人員酬金，是要把我們的人才趕出中研院嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:49:21.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:49:44.071000+08:00","text":"再來，一般事務費大砍5,000萬，會傷及我們的基礎營運、學術傳播命脈；按日計件酬金砍了三成七，這項費用是讓你們在延攬很多外部專業人員時提供會議、論壇甚至稿件的徵集，不是嗎？是。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:49:44.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:49:54.835000+08:00","text":"這裡還非常多，連車資、國內外旅費、物品採購……物品採購大砍4,500萬，這會讓我們的實驗室運作中斷！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:49:57.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:50:16.350000+08:00","text":"再來，運費、旅費等等不一而足，所以院長這是您一上任的難題，面對一個完全不是理性，他只是為了報復，只是為了政治報復，連中研院的預算都這樣大砍，您有什麼因應？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2026-07-20T10:50:20.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:50:44.726000+08:00","text":"對於這樣一個大刪預算的做法，我們在朝野協商的時候會好好地跟大家說明，實際上這一些經費都是相當必要的，也謝謝吳思瑤委員在這一個部分，在受影響的部分，您真的是很了解我們中央研究院預算正常運作的必要，也特別感謝。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2026-07-20T10:50:44.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:50:59.559000+08:00","text":"另外我剛才講的3.5億元，實際上只是人員訓練的部分，如果包括其他部分，確實到4.8億，這對中央研究院的正常運作有很大很大的影響，我們一定會據理力爭來爭取，不要有這樣的刪減狀況。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:51:01.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:51:10.140000+08:00","text":"我的建議有三項：第一項，當然要趕快跟我們執政黨負責協商的黨鞭聯繫，在政黨協商的時候，我們一定要據理力爭。","quality":0.489},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:51:11.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:51:31.717000+08:00","text":"第二個，雖然我們明知在野黨的委員就是政治報復，但是我們該做的事，我們也要努力去遊說，我們的每一個預算，如果這樣被惡砍，將會影響中研院各項運作，我們要積極、清楚地向委員說明我們該做的事情，我們要努力。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:51:32.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:52:13.622000+08:00","text":"第三件事情是向社會論述，努力地向社會論述，一個惡意刪減預算的在野黨委員，如果他刪減的每一個內容都能夠具體指出，過去在各個預算項目，我們執行上有缺漏、有弊病要改進，那我們可以接受，可是他完全提不出任何對應於實質刪減內容的理由，完全就在模稜兩可，這就是政治的報復。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:52:13.622000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T10:52:14.622000+08:00","text":"抱歉，再30秒。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:52:13.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:52:38.986000+08:00","text":"所以我也要再次挑戰，用你的魔法打敗你，用翁曉玲的魔法打敗他，他所有的預算提案複製貼上，都是為了撙節支出，他說我們要強化國防，所以國防支出創下歷史新高，所以各部會就要撙節支出、要勒緊褲帶，這不就是邏輯錯置嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:52:39.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:53:19.784000+08:00","text":"現在提出的無人機特別條例，行政部門就是擔心排擠了公務預算、排擠了年度預算、排擠了教科文、排擠了社福，所以我們用特別預算的方式，一次編列2,100億，可以有效地一次授權，快速建立非紅無人機供應鏈的量能，能夠減少預算的排擠風險，這就是行政院為什麼要努力地用特別預算的編列來因應無人機產業跟國防的要求，所以翁曉玲委員的提案就是自我打臉。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:53:19.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:53:41.324000+08:00","text":"最後我拋出這個問題，就您學研的角度，我們的無人機對於臺灣在國防、在安全韌性、在各項的民生應用上，您是不是支持行政院目前在國防產業都缺無人機不可的一個特別條例的方向呢？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2026-07-20T10:53:42.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:54:00.356000+08:00","text":"其實無人機確實是相當重要，不管是在國內或者是在國外，現有的案例都知道無人機的使用越來越普遍，而且不管是在國防、民生方面都很重要，所以我國確實在這一方面需要一個特別的預算來支持。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:54:01.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:54:47.533000+08:00","text":"因為您過去擔任過我們的副元首、擔任過行政院長，我想你一定非常的感同身受，在野黨不好好做立法院的工作，立法院搶當行政院的工作，違反了憲法權力分立的原則，現在在野黨的委員不審預算，卻大量地在編列預算，用這些預算的手段，破壞權力分立的原則，甚至在無人機的條例、重要的建軍戰備的任務，他們卻惡意的架空國防部，重大的國防採購由經濟部去主管，我想科學家應當都非常難以理解，我頭痛，為什麼去看骨科呢？","quality":0.801},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:54:48.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:54:49.458000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:54:49.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:54:53.140000+08:00","text":"我胃痛，為什麼安排我去看皮膚科呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:54:54.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:55:05.750000+08:00","text":"更重要的是，國防自主的三項重要的採購，都被排除在在野黨的版本之外，還有我們對於其他公務預算的排擠風險。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:55:05.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:55:21.684000+08:00","text":"我想向社會論述是重要的，就無人機的課題，這也攸關我們的民生應用、我們的科研端，也請院長率領我們中研院的夥伴們把國家產業的需求、國防的需求，大聲地向社會論述。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-07-20T10:55:22.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:55:26.309000+08:00","text":"不好意思，因為第一次質詢，有點期待，講得比較久，我們一起加油，謝謝院長，謝謝委員。","quality":0.559},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2026-07-20T10:55:26.309000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T10:55:28.892000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T10:55:28.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:55:31.155000+08:00","text":"謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢，請院長回座。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T10:55:33.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T10:55:35.960000+08:00","text":"下一位有請羅智強委員進行詢答。","quality":0.5}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}