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uality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T10:43:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:43:25.750000+08:00","text":"請莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:43:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:43:30.666667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:43:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:43:31.400000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:43:31.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:43:34.800000+08:00","text":"部長，我先跟你探討新青安3.0的議題。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:43:36.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:03.666667+08:00","text":"有關新青安的所得認定，個人年所得上限200萬元，採單一年度認定，這個認定我個人認為非常僵化，因為這樣可能會誤殺因臨時獎金或分紅而短暫超標的業務或受薪族，而且名下無房也不等於弱勢。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:44:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:17.687500+08:00","text":"有專家或民間團體認為，未持有房屋者不代表沒有資產或購買力，補助的對象若未全面檢視家戶的總資產，資源分配未必能夠精準。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:44:18.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:21.800000+08:00","text":"請問財政部有沒有機制避免誤殺真正的首購族？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:44:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:25.750000+08:00","text":"有沒有相關的機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:44:26.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:38.090909+08:00","text":"委員，我們這一次所訂的新青安3.0，也是在2.0執行過程當中收到各界指教，以及大家認為有質疑的地方，所以我們訂了3.0。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:44:39.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:48.800000+08:00","text":"我們的目的就是協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋，並且自住使用，以支持青年實現購屋、安心成家。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:44:50.846154+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:44:59.857143+08:00","text":"對於協助的對象，我們必須要做一些精準的區別，也對高所得、高資力的人……我覺得這不是我們主要要協助的對象。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:02.142857+08:00","text":"我想資源應該用在需要協助的人身上，所以對於……","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:06.777778+08:00","text":"部長，這個我們認同，但是針對我剛才的問題，我想部長……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:07.666667+08:00","text":"我知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:34.818182+08:00","text":"因為你們現在把上限設定在200萬，這是一個很僵化的限制，很可能會誤殺這些……他個人可能一個年度的獎金或分紅剛好超過200萬，是不是就變成他受到這個限制而沒有辦法辦理新青安3.0貸款？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:36.750000+08:00","text":"所以這個就會誤殺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:37.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:44.538462+08:00","text":"我們是以借款人本人，如果他有配偶的話，其實他可以在兩位中擇一位。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:45.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:45:56.800000+08:00","text":"至於您剛剛提的，因為某種特殊情況而有一次性的收入，讓他那一年的收入特別高，我想對於個案的情形，我們在執行的過程當中也會去蒐集各方的意見。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:45:57.923077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:07.800000+08:00","text":"相關的配套還是不要那麼僵化，你們這樣太僵化了，個案真的會出現這種問題，他只是這個年度有超過200萬，就剛好因為分紅的關係。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:08.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:24.818182+08:00","text":"我覺得委員剛剛這樣的一個提醒，我們未來在……因為我們的Q&A問答集也都出來，大家都了解，如果在執行過程當中有一些什麼樣的情況，我們都可以隨時去了解，公股行庫也會反映，讓我們的相關規定更切合……","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:25.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:27.857143+08:00","text":"要有一些例外的規定，不要這麼僵化，要有彈性。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:33.666667+08:00","text":"更切合政策的目的，讓政策可以真正落實。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:33.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:34.666667+08:00","text":"因為有這樣的情形，我希望部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:34.083333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:37.700000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛有提到這個問題，所以未來實務發生的時候，我們再來做一些探討。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:38.750000+08:00","text":"要去關注。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:46:39.750000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:46:40.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:47:04.600000+08:00","text":"第二個是我剛才提到的，有專家、民間團體認為，未持有房屋者不代表他就是弱勢，你們補助的對象如果沒有全面檢視家戶的總資產，資源的分配未必能夠精準，所以財政部是不是要去訂一個避免誤傷真正首購族的規定？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:47:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:47:20.800000+08:00","text":"第一個，您剛剛有提到，如果我們只是單一的用200萬來設定，而家戶可能很有錢的，反而沒有那個，跟誤殺可能……這個情況下，應該是誤給了，而不是誤殺。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:47:21.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:47:39.818182+08:00","text":"我們其實有兩個，第一個，除了本人200萬年所得之外，還有購買房屋的總價也有一個上限的限制，這個目的就是去買高總價的房屋，表示本身的資力跟所得高，那也不是這個政策要協助的對象。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:47:40.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:47:46.400000+08:00","text":"在這一次裡面，我們除了所得之外，還有購買房屋的總價以及再加上年齡等等。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:47:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:47:53.625000+08:00","text":"也就是說，在2.0的執行過程當中，各界的指教我們都參考進來。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:47:54.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:05.750000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛提到的一些，大概在我們這次的機制裡面都有設計，各界當然也有意見，可能就是從某一個點來說，但是這要全面來看。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:05.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:06.750000+08:00","text":"部長，我還是針對我今天提出的問題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:07.750000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:11.777778+08:00","text":"我希望財政部一定要針對這個問題去做相關的檢討。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:11.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:12.777778+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:35.750000+08:00","text":"另外，新青安3.0如果貸款後因為借款人的婚姻關係消滅，將停止超過新臺幣1,000萬元核貸額的利息補貼，這個是為了防止假結婚的貸款，就是怕他假結婚，然後後來離婚，因為離婚了，你們就認定為利息不補貼。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:42.625000+08:00","text":"但如果夫妻是真的失和而離婚，會不會又錯殺了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:48:57.625000+08:00","text":"他是真的婚姻發生問題，但是你們這個規定是，他離婚而婚姻關係消滅，你們就不再補貼利息，不再適用新青安3.0。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:48:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:38.777778+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，當時新青安貸款最高額度為1,000萬，不超過八成，為了鼓勵婚育，假設我們就先講新婚夫妻的話，最高額度就可以貸1,200萬，因此我們會有六年相關利息的一些協助，在六年當中，如果婚姻關係失和而離婚，造成婚姻關係消滅，我們會從他們離婚之後，對於200萬的部分不再做利息補貼，只針對那200萬的部分，之前的不會去追溯。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:41.700000+08:00","text":"所以不管他是真離婚或假離婚，都一律把它收回？","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:43.818182+08:00","text":"什麼叫做假離婚，還是假結婚？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:48.800000+08:00","text":"因為你們的這個目的，我們看起來就是防止他為了貸款而去結婚。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:48.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:50+08:00","text":"我們沒有防止他。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:55.800000+08:00","text":"後來貸了款就離婚，所以這看起來就是假離婚嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:55.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:49:56.800000+08:00","text":"假結婚啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:49:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:09.500000+08:00","text":"但是如果他們是真正的婚姻，而不是假的婚姻，他貸了款，這時候你又把它收回，我想這個鼓勵年輕人買房的意義就喪失了。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:28.846154+08:00","text":"結婚是人生的大事，買房也是人生的大事，我不認為年輕人會因為多200萬的貸款去假結婚，而且200萬的利息協助其實也不見得在他要考慮的範圍內。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:28.846154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:29.846154+08:00","text":"部長，你是從正面的方向思考。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:31.785714+08:00","text":"因為我們認為應該要從正面思考。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:33.857143+08:00","text":"但是很有可能也會發生這種情形。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:38.500000+08:00","text":"發生這種事情當然是很遺憾，如果兩人無法共同生活而離婚……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:40.714286+08:00","text":"所以這種的，你不認為是錯殺？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:42.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:48.769231+08:00","text":"沒有殺，我們也沒殺他，是他失和了，離婚，只是之後我們沒有做利息補貼。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:49.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:50:51.800000+08:00","text":"OK，是他失和，真的也沒辦法勸和就對了。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:50:52.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:51:10.714286+08:00","text":"第二個，我再問最後一個議題，金管會最近在7月17號首度召集本國銀行的獨立董事，把獨董推上銀行治理的第一線，主要是聚焦在獨董如何行使調查權來協助金融監理。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:51:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:51:42.727273+08:00","text":"監理的重點包含：第一、建立銀行的誠信文化與行為監理框架；第二、強化獨董的職能，金管會也訂定獨董協助及調查作業程序；第三、推動全齡金融，金管會希望透過座談，把獨董從形式上獨立的席次，推向銀行治理風險與控管的第一線，讓董事會不只看獲利，也要對誠信文化、治理品質以及社會負責任。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:51:43.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:51:57.750000+08:00","text":"請問部長，你認為金管會第一次召集本國銀行的獨立董事，討論關於獨立董事銀行治理的責任，主要的原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:51:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:06.684211+08:00","text":"希望獨董能夠發揮功能，在董事會裡面能夠一起協助做公司治理。很好！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:15.733333+08:00","text":"所以目前所有的公股行庫，在這三大監理議題上，獨董運作執行的狀況未來會是如何？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:21.736842+08:00","text":"會本著金管會現在這三個原則去做監理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:22.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:29.875000+08:00","text":"公股事業推薦的獨董當然應該要符合金管會的一些要求，也一定要去落實的。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:31+08:00","text":"還是會去落實？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:39.625000+08:00","text":"另外，部長是否也贊成在所有的公股行庫中配合推動此一措施？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:44.722222+08:00","text":"是否要維持公股行庫獨董監理的獨立性？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:45.857143+08:00","text":"當然，獨董就要有獨立性。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:46.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:46.833333+08:00","text":"你會做要求吧？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:52:48.500000+08:00","text":"對，是的。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:52:49.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:11.750000+08:00","text":"金管會也希望若是銀行獨董等高階主管疑似涉及不法或者不當行為，獨董均可依程序介入調查與釐清，但公股行庫的董座、總經理都是官派，財政部是否也會放手讓公股行庫的獨董進行必要的調查？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:12.666667+08:00","text":"當然會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:13.666667+08:00","text":"一定會嘛？是的。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:14.266667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:29.750000+08:00","text":"好，我就問剛才賴士葆委員也有垂詢的，就是財政部取得國票金的經營權，若是再來有獨立董事提出修改公司章程、廢除副董的職位，財政部是否會支持？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:35.625000+08:00","text":"我想這是內部公司治理的程序，當然是要尊重公司治理。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:51.500000+08:00","text":"部長，剛才賴委員也強調，財政部是國票金最大的股東，可以說財政部就可以代表這個公司，你總該有個立場嘛。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:53.777778+08:00","text":"委員，剛剛不是有提到嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:54.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:55.833333+08:00","text":"我們要尊重獨董的獨立性啊！是啊！","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:53:57.846154+08:00","text":"所以在公司治理裡面、在董事會裡面，獨董有他的職責可以去運作。","quality":0.481},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:53:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:04.666667+08:00","text":"不是，我說廢除副董的職位，你是否會支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:06.866667+08:00","text":"你剛才講說要尊重公司的治理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:06.866667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:08.363636+08:00","text":"是啊，然後裡面也設有董事。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:08.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:15.857143+08:00","text":"現在這些獨董大部分都是你財政部官派的，所以你財政部要有個立場啊，你的態度是什麼？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:17.800000+08:00","text":"我們要尊重他的獨立性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:18.900000+08:00","text":"你還是尊重他的獨立性？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:19.857143+08:00","text":"當然，尊重獨立性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:21.833333+08:00","text":"好，以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:22.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:23.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:27.250000+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們結束林思銘委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T10:54:27.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:54:30.121429+08:00","text":"接下來請顏寬恒委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}